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Chronamut is Selling My Art

1,245 Views | 34 Replies

Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 13:32:32


He messaged me out of the blue to inform me that a commission I did for him in 2014 is now going to be immortalized on his store.


https://wax.atomichub.io/market/sale/3263400


And I don't know if I'm cool with it. I'm exploring my options to see what I can do with it, or if I should even care for that matter. Should I care if he makes money off of something I made for him? Is there harm in that. Harm to me? Still fleshing out how I should feel about it, or what I can even do about it if I don't like it. It just feels odd...is this normal for people to commission an artist for a very low rate, under $100, and then upsell it to more than $100 on their own store, even if it's digitally reproducible art?


He says he can provide me a cut in a cryptocurrency called Wax. I have never heard of this cryptocurrency.


This just seems really odd.



-Formerly known as Phobotech-

Voice Actor / Pre-Production Animator / Illustrator / T-Shirt Designer / Author

"I sail through a golden nexus. By tanks with armor that glisten. I watch and I play with creations, and what I'm not reading, I listen." <-

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 13:37:35


Aren't we all done with his shit already?


Let's stab him in the dick!


BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 13:44:09


Lmao this guy again


He's like damn herpes


hello

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 14:17:36


He paid for it and you agreed to the price so it's his I suppose.


It's all really weird

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 14:25:04


At 3/8/21 02:17 PM, KnaveofClubs wrote: He paid for it and you agreed to the price so it's his I suppose.


Well that's just it. It came form a General BBS thread. Just a, "Hey draw my character" "Okay!" and it was done. It was like a practice commission for me. But here he is, 7 years later, digitally selling that thing for a marked up price.


Now, he later specifies that they're being sold in Wax. So it's not like transactions that are hundreds of dollars. (And then he hit me with "it'll be good exposure" and I almost pulled the plug on it right there and then.)


But ownership on the piece was never specified because not only was the contract light and weak, but with his NG account gone, and the correspondance between us lost in the PM's, I have no way to prove it. In a legal setting, I have little grounds to stand on...except this.


iu_254207_625071.jpg


...That Licensing term specifies that it's for noncommercial use. He tried to argue that with the transactions being done in NFT's, that gets sketchy...but I'm not convinced. Even if it's an obscure crypto, that could still be turned into functional currency.


I just told him to not remove the signature and link to my page on the item's description. I'm writing this one off as a loss. 2014 me taught 2021 me a valuable lesson in contract assembly.


-Formerly known as Phobotech-

Voice Actor / Pre-Production Animator / Illustrator / T-Shirt Designer / Author

"I sail through a golden nexus. By tanks with armor that glisten. I watch and I play with creations, and what I'm not reading, I listen." <-

BBS Signature

I kind of hate to say it but without a contract of some sort I don't know what you can do. Typically with commissions you're giving them the art to do as they please. In olden times that meant they got the physical painting and could sell it or put it in a museum or hide it under a tarp in their attic because it grows more grotesque as their soul decays in wickedness and their physical self remains unaged. Heck he may have the right to ask you to take down the copies you uploaded elsewhere.


I know it's been a few years but see if you have anything saved (PMs, emails,etc) that might have talked about what rights you retained for yourself.


Edit: looks like you replied while I was writing this. The creative commons license I imagine didn't supersede whatever contract you had with him since that would predate the CC License you used when uploaded it to ng.


¥ ♡ ¥ BBS, Review and Chat Mod - PM for help or to snitch! ¥ ♡ ¥

¥ ♡ ¥ Sig pic byTemplate88 ¥ ♡ ¥

BBS Signature

At 3/8/21 02:17 PM, KnaveofClubs wrote: He paid for it and you agreed to the price so it's his I suppose.


ugh, it's not that easy. It just depends on what the terms are. (is there a contract ?)


If he commissioned for a painting, and the terms are hey, do this for me, I pay you a fee where I'm allowed to do anything I want with it and make money off of it, then hey, let's move on.


However, if there is a contract for a royalty fee, then he has a case.


I'm assuming, it went like this


Person A: Do a picture for me, I'll pay you.

Person B: Sure, here's the picture

Person A: Thx, here's the money.

Person B: Thx for your business.


End of discussion.


Honestly OP? Not sure if you have a case if you did not lay out the terms and you received money. If anyone is a lawyer or paralegal, would love to her this one. However, you can ask at a minimum to be given credit so others might want your services.


At 3/8/21 02:26 PM, Malachy wrote: Edit: looks like you replied while I was writing this. The creative commons license I imagine didn't supersede whatever contract you had with him since that would predate the CC License you used when uploaded it to ng.


I tend to agree with you Mal. The individual contract supersedes. Best thing OP can do is just ask for at least credit.


NG Review Moderator // Pm me for Review Abuse

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 15:10:48


As it sounds like that cunt is going to get away with it, I say the best thing you can do is undercut him and sell your own art at a lower price, ideally on the same site. Morally right? No, but then neither is he. Fuck him and not in the way he'd like.


[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 16:21:51


At 3/8/21 03:10 PM, Gagsy wrote: As it sounds like that cunt is going to get away with it, I say the best thing you can do is undercut him and sell your own art at a lower price, ideally on the same site. Morally right? No, but then neither is he. Fuck him and not in the way he'd like.


One thing I sought when making this thread was a roll call of people that had similar experiences with him. Something like a "Jesus fuck, pull out, he pulled a fast one on me at this time and date!" But I doubt I'd get what I'm looking for in that capacity. Some kind of heads up to the content of his character. Or a reputation of sketchy business practices.


If this thread stands the test of time, and if Chronamut is enough of a narcissist to read this or what I'm saying about it, let this be known before threadlock; Moving Forward: If you're gonna sell shit that I made, as long as you contact me about it, I'm probably gonna be cool with it. But if you do it behind my back, I'm going to come after you.


-Formerly known as Phobotech-

Voice Actor / Pre-Production Animator / Illustrator / T-Shirt Designer / Author

"I sail through a golden nexus. By tanks with armor that glisten. I watch and I play with creations, and what I'm not reading, I listen." <-

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 16:34:07


Doesn't paying a commission automatically null and void the noncommercial agreement?


Mal has a very good point in regards to Chronamut asking you to take that particular illustration down. If he paid for it and nothing more was spoken, it could be implied he owns all the rights and rewards to it, without giving you any of the credit or mention.


My advise would be to take this one on the chin and accept any bone he decides to through your way in this instance, and to be more careful in the future when negotiating commissions, which you've probably already noted to yourself.


BBS Signature

I’ll echo what Mal and co. have said, and that unfortunately without a prior agreement to how he could use the commission, IMO he’s free to sell it at a rate of his choosing.


Although the piece appears to be very personal to Chron, and it’s being sold for Chuck-E-Cheese cryptocurrency, so I wouldn’t be concerned about missing out on anything.


BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 18:58:25


At 3/8/21 01:32 PM, Phobotech wrote: He messaged me out of the blue to inform me that a commission I did for him in 2014 is now going to be immortalized on his store.

https://wax.atomichub.io/market/sale/3263400

And I don't know if I'm cool with it. I'm exploring my options to see what I can do with it, or if I should even care for that matter. Should I care if he makes money off of something I made for him? Is there harm in that. Harm to me? Still fleshing out how I should feel about it, or what I can even do about it if I don't like it. It just feels odd...is this normal for people to commission an artist for a very low rate, under $100, and then upsell it to more than $100 on their own store, even if it's digitally reproducible art?

He says he can provide me a cut in a cryptocurrency called Wax. I have never heard of this cryptocurrency.

This just seems really odd.

https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/phobotech/king-chronamut-commission

If you sold him the legal rights to it, then there's jack shit you can do. But if you just sold him the piece for himself and never mentioned anything about him owning the rights to distribute it, then you have the ability to tell him whether he has permission to do so or not.

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-08 19:37:54


The site keeps mentioning wax...is he like making wax figurines based off a picture you drew for him or just the actual picture? It sounds like just the picture. That sounds like a shitty thing to do.


At 3/8/21 01:32 PM, Phobotech wrote: He messaged me out of the blue to inform me that a commission I did for him in 2014 is now going to be immortalized on his store.


If you don't have a formal agreement giving him full rights to the piece and weren't employed by him, technically you still own it: Copyright and Commissioned Art


Working on Nightmare Cops!

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-11 15:59:40


At 3/8/21 07:37 PM, Sensationalism wrote: The site keeps mentioning wax...is he like making wax figurines based off a picture you drew for him or just the actual picture? It sounds like just the picture. That sounds like a shitty thing to do.


apparently its a crypto currency.


im so sweaty

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-11 20:18:51


I started to see more artwork getting stolen for NFT and I am shocked to see it spread farther to Newgrounds.

The only way I can see is DMCA but that kinda weak move considered that is an easy way to expose your personal information. I suggest contract the webmaster of this site to takedown this unauthorize product that he selling without your permission.


Also, judging by this comment section, it seems that he been doing this for awhile, and kinda odd how we now getting this now.


https://38cautionzone.com

Ko-fi (Commission/Donation)

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Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 01:10:11


At 3/8/21 01:32 PM, Phobotech wrote: He messaged me out of the blue to inform me that a commission I did for him in 2014 is now going to be immortalized on his store.

https://wax.atomichub.io/market/sale/3263400

And I don't know if I'm cool with it. I'm exploring my options to see what I can do with it, or if I should even care for that matter. Should I care if he makes money off of something I made for him? Is there harm in that. Harm to me? Still fleshing out how I should feel about it, or what I can even do about it if I don't like it. It just feels odd...is this normal for people to commission an artist for a very low rate, under $100, and then upsell it to more than $100 on their own store, even if it's digitally reproducible art?

He says he can provide me a cut in a cryptocurrency called Wax. I have never heard of this cryptocurrency.

This just seems really odd.

https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/phobotech/king-chronamut-commission


Its been a trend on how people take others art just to make crypto. Just put do not allowed to use for a while and if people still do it. Your allowed to sue


She/They, 19., I draw sometimes.

Support me on ko-fi, it helps!

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Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 01:26:02


After reading all the posts on this thread, I say copyright the guy so hard that he can only do lefts. No real idea what I mean by that but as it sounds like a bad thing to be on the receiving end of I'm rolling with it.

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 01:29:40


Didn't he get banned on the BBS for about like 10 years?


Sig by @Brokendeck

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 02:09:27


My thinking is, selling someone else's art is really gross, right?


It would be easy to tell him to take it down. I complain, make a threat, he could whine or argue but would probably comply. I go about my day, sitting on that thing I drew in 2014, he goes off to sell whatever he can get his hands on, both parties move on and learn little.


It could be easy...OR...we do the difficult but impactful route.


Let's let him be gross. Let's let people SEE him be gross. Because looking at his gallery, the pieces that aren't his clearly stick out like a sore thumb. He will never be able to recreate anything like that piece. And potential buyers will see that, and might even press for an explanation.


Imagine the response he may give. Imagine how he would try to explain it without sounding like a narcissist, why he's selling something that contains a massive signature of someone else's name on it.


Let the red flags fly, high and bright enough for others to see. There's a potential for him to learn a lesson in humility from such a negative or awkward experience from this. Selling a piece this old indicates not only desperation, but creative staleness. It makes me wonder why he is unable to generate something himself?


What if all he wanted was drama? The funnier response would be not to argue.


What if all he wanted was attention? By not caring about the 2014 commission, this crypto gallery may fade into obscurity sooner than later.


What if all he wanted was money? I would be surprised if people bought this enough to make me feel like I'm missing out on something.


People typically dish out money to get their original creations made to their exact specifications by artists who could render that image in such a way that the customer themselves could not express. I do not understand or am unaware of a demographic of consumers that seek out and buy other people's non-porn OC's, and do so with obscure cryptos.


That doesn't make sense to me. Especially if this, precise content he's trying to sell, is free to download and view. Whoever gives him money for that is a fool in the first place, and it would be money swindled out of the gullible, making the profit unethical, to which I still wouldn't want that money.


He winds up looking like an asshole for selling it, I move on with my life without spending money on a legal team fighting him over it.


He either gives up when it doesn't sell like he hoped it would, or he doubles down in a lazier venture in desperation. Which would secure his trajectory in creative bankruptcy.


The best counter-assault I could give to an egotistical narcissist is to not play their games in their way, ignore them, and continue to make art that they never could.


Besides. I need to make more things more often. I spent all this time criticizing...it's time to remind myself what I'm capable of.


-Formerly known as Phobotech-

Voice Actor / Pre-Production Animator / Illustrator / T-Shirt Designer / Author

"I sail through a golden nexus. By tanks with armor that glisten. I watch and I play with creations, and what I'm not reading, I listen." <-

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 02:25:53


I'm getting old.

Can you explain precisely what he is selling? You buy the art and what does it do then?

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 03:37:01


He can sell your art and you can sell his songs. Two can play that game.


"خيبر خيبر يايهود جيش محمد سوف يعود"

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 12:56:59


If what I learned is correct, NFT/CryptoArt is really bad for the environment since the machine process for it creates carbon emissions.


He is destroying the planet selling your old artwork. This is some cartoon supervillain stuff.

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 13:23:32


At 3/12/21 03:37 AM, SatanBrain wrote: He can sell your art and you can sell his songs. Two can play that game.


I forget who it was in the audio community that turned out to be a huge phoney 5 or 6 years ago, everything was stolen. They were probably one of the top 5 most popular artists 10 years ago.


Oh god, I'm old.

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 13:23:48


If you're not sure on the payment, then I wouldn't risk it.


Some cryptocurrency is reliable and have developed a reputation and value, while some aren't worth the motherboard they're programed on.


Just another NG user.

Thanks, @COOLZONE17500 for the cool signature.

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Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 14:15:35


At 3/12/21 03:37 AM, SatanBrain wrote: He can sell your art and you can sell his songs. Two can play that game.


Yo, realtalk, where can I find his songs? If they're instrumental, I could sing over them and it would be hilarious.


-Formerly known as Phobotech-

Voice Actor / Pre-Production Animator / Illustrator / T-Shirt Designer / Author

"I sail through a golden nexus. By tanks with armor that glisten. I watch and I play with creations, and what I'm not reading, I listen." <-

BBS Signature

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 14:17:29


At 3/12/21 01:23 PM, ZomAlien wrote: If you're not sure on the payment, then I wouldn't risk it.

Some cryptocurrency is reliable and have developed a reputation and value, while some aren't worth the motherboard they're programed on.


Oh yeah, it's why I'm cautious about this whole thing. I elaborate more on my decision a few posts up from this one.


-Formerly known as Phobotech-

Voice Actor / Pre-Production Animator / Illustrator / T-Shirt Designer / Author

"I sail through a golden nexus. By tanks with armor that glisten. I watch and I play with creations, and what I'm not reading, I listen." <-

BBS Signature

At 3/12/21 02:15 PM, Phobotech wrote:
At 3/12/21 03:37 AM, SatanBrain wrote: He can sell your art and you can sell his songs. Two can play that game.
Yo, realtalk, where can I find his songs? If they're instrumental, I could sing over them and it would be hilarious.


I see the word singing, and I am in! If you want to add in some vocals for me to sing as well, make it kind of a duet, here is a sample of my excellent vocal talent.





Call me if you need a singer.


On the topic of commisioning art, I have bought art, and I would never have even thought of selling it, unless I was specifically entering a contract to sell it.

Response to Chronamut is Selling My Art 2021-03-12 17:33:55


At 3/12/21 02:15 PM, Phobotech wrote:
At 3/12/21 03:37 AM, SatanBrain wrote: He can sell your art and you can sell his songs. Two can play that game.
Yo, realtalk, where can I find his songs? If they're instrumental, I could sing over them and it would be hilarious.


Oh, so many poisons to pick from to get back at him if you sang over his songs! Just to name a few, you could sing about why he sucks, sing about yourself (either in a glorifying way, a self-depreciating way, or both), sing about things that you know he hates, or maybe even completely nonsensically lyrics that are so catchy that folks can't get 'em out of their heads.