Maximum Wage/Flat Wage?

[GoryBlizzard]

Does anyone here strongly believe in a maximum wage or a flat wage? If so, what should it be?

I would say $60,000/year annually flat for everyone. I don't think anyone wants to make more than their boss or bosses. Certainly, I don't. The CEO of McDonald's is not worth many millions more than a crew member.

Cheering for a $15/hour minimum wage (which most politicians would bitch about earning themselves) and a $60,000/year wage for teachers only (no one else) boggles my mind.

Many people who make millions or billions have other forms of income such as investments rather than purely wages. This should all go to fighting ecocide and poverty and building housing and quality free public transportation.

Also, just look at the differences between CEO salaries. How does CEO A justify a $66 million a year salary while CEO B gets $400,000/year?

Why do college presidents usually make at least as much if not more than the President of the United States?

Why don't we pay for more of our things in goods and services instead of cash?

These are tough questions, but they demand answers.

Please answer them.

[Gario]

to be honest i'm a fan of capping a CEO's pay to 25-30x the amount their lowest wage employee makes

hell, i'm flexible, 50-100x would probably be okay

sure, they can make millions/billions if they want, but it would mean their lower employees would be making bank, too, since they'd need to raise their wages in order to make a higher salary themselves

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 1/19/21 09:23 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: Does anyone here strongly believe in a maximum wage or a flat wage? If so, what should it be?

no, free market.

I would say $60,000/year annually flat for everyone. I don't think anyone wants to make more than their boss or bosses. Certainly, I don't. The CEO of McDonald's is not worth many millions more than a crew member.

and why should that be? you're head of a company that makes the financial and at the end of the day operational choices on how the company is ran and with it some legal liability for any decisions, and if you're part of a legally traded company there can be some control by shareholders, especially with activist investors it recently happened with GME.

Cheering for a $15/hour minimum wage (which most politicians would bitch about earning themselves) and a $60,000/year wage for teachers only (no one else) boggles my mind.

if you made $15 an hour as the standard the annual income before taxes is $29K and thats at the national not counting regional competitive wage rates, and in some places that still doesn't cover cost of living in some places in the US.

take mcdonalds for example has 210,000 (2018) and you give them all 15/h that comes out to 5.8 Billion dollars in payroll and they have a net income of 5.9 billion. how do you think they can generate more revenue and keep operations going without the stock plummeting and having to increase the price of their food?

Many people who make millions or billions have other forms of income such as investments rather than purely wages.

so everyone else like you and me gets capped but these guys still get to have their swanked high interest bank and investment accounts to begin with? this will just encourage doing cash-in-hand jobs and economics that won't be reported to the IRS and directly in their own pocket, all you would be doing is raising the already high bar to advance up helping the already rich unless you had exceptions for these policies for people who make less than say (arbitrarily) $150K single and $300K if its joint as a couple.

This should all go to fighting ecocide and poverty and building housing and quality free public transportation.

No one cares about your grudge against "Gentrification", because they aren't interested into paying into Minnesota did this with tobacco tax to build a new stadium in Minneapolis by funneling it into the General fund, you know what us in the rural and border state citizens did? we went across the state borders and bought smokes there, Minnesota has a $3.04 cigarette tax in South Dakota its $1.53 in North Dakota its .44c! some people got the idea to go to ND whole buy go down to the TC in Minneapolis and sell up and made quite a bit of money doing it.

This is proof that if people are willing to either try not paying into it and get a cheaper price because they don't want to pay into something that doesn't benefit or effect them, and others to take advantage of the situation.

its a big problem in the US with Rural vs Urban communities when it comes to these sorts of projects, Rural like me don't want to pay for projects i'll never see or use in the urban area so why should I pay in?

Also, just look at the differences between CEO salaries. How does CEO A justify a $66 million a year salary while CEO B gets $400,000/year?

maybe it has to do with the size of the company and their profit margins of operating and income based on their size, publicly traded companies use the market capital to expand and improve their business if something caused investors and shareholders to lose interest and sell that used market capital becomes debt due to the Debt-to-Capitalization Ratio.

simple economics.

Why do college presidents usually make at least as much if not more than the President of the United States?

they provide a service and are paid accordingly to those who pay for it, the other is a public servant that is either appointed/elected or systematically brought in, though I have heard arguments about how government employees that are hired in (regardless of level) should be listened to by those that are elected and appointed since they are specialists and know the system and are there permanently and the appointed and elected official is there only temporarily. I can only surmise that it shows in pay.

Why don't we pay for more of our things in goods and services instead of cash?

because the government wants its cut and to tax it even though the government didn't do anything involving with the transaction its more like a legalized for of Mafia Protection and they can get away with it, and bartering went out after the late 19th century in most civilized countries when import exporting became a big thing and cash became king.

These are tough questions, but they demand answers.

no they aren't.

Edit: screwed up words and an analogy.

[DieterTheuns]

At 1/20/21 12:31 AM, Gario wrote: to be honest i'm a fan of capping a CEO's pay to 25-30x the amount their lowest wage employee makes

hell, i'm flexible, 50-100x would probably be okay

sure, they can make millions/billions if they want, but it would mean their lower employees would be making bank, too, since they'd need to raise their wages in order to make a higher salary themselves

I'd dare going a step further and apply this to federal level. Elected officials can only make x times as much as the minimum wage.

[DingleberryClock]

Max wage should be 2.5x minimum wage

One human doesn't need 20-30x more than another to survive. Cap them off that 150k a year.

[GoryBlizzard]

At 1/20/21 05:23 AM, DingleberryClock wrote: Max wage should be 2.5x minimum wage

One human doesn't need 20-30x more than another to survive. Cap them off that 150k a year.

While I still want a flat wage across the spectrum, this isn't terrible either.

I also want to stop people from working off the books to circumvent taxation. That will require making dollar bills and coins no longer legal tender and having a central bank card/account which stores all funds. There will be a transition period for this so no one can complain they were unprepared.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 1/20/21 07:13 AM, GoryBlizzard wrote: I also want to stop people from working off the books to circumvent taxation. That will require making dollar bills and coins no longer legal tender and having a central bank card/account which stores all funds. There will be a transition period for this so no one can complain they were unprepared.

good thing that'll never happen with crypto and other block chain technology coming out trying to upstart the current banking system and the already huge distrust of the mainstream financial system, giving the state and the banks that kind of power is fucking foolish mistake and a horrible fucking economic idea India tried it and it devalued and caused havoc to the Rupee, the stocks went to a six month low, crippled their agriculture sector and caused a 2 year long decrease in employment by 18% which attributed to their economic slowdown.

and Taxation is theft.

[Curtains-Joe]

At 1/19/21 09:23 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: Does anyone here strongly believe in a maximum wage or a flat wage? If so, what should it be?

No it's a terrible idea

[DamnedByFate]

At 1/20/21 01:48 AM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 1/19/21 09:23 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: Does anyone here strongly believe in a maximum wage or a flat wage? If so, what should it be?

no, free market.

After all that has brought us, do we really want it any more?

Now I wouldn't be as extreme as the OP and demand a wage cap, but I will say that the tax bracket system stops way too early.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

At 1/20/21 09:52 AM, DamnedByFate wrote: After all that has brought us, do we really want it any more?

If we had it my way we'd turn Delaware into the US equivalent to Switzerland in terms of business law and taxesand have the banks and the stock market open 12 hours daily and a half day on Saturday.

Now I wouldn't be as extreme as the OP and demand a wage cap, but I will say that the tax bracket system stops way too early.

Raise the bottom racket to 100K for a single person and 200K for joint. Cut the next racket and make that cut rackets tax rate for the million plus earners to compensate since it would be higher than what it originally was, sure they'll be able to write most of it off and lower the Effective Tax Rate by write offs and money shuffling, but overall the state would get more revenue than from the previously cut racket.

Of course I don't have a tax racket chart in front of me I'm on my phone so I might be talking out of my ass, I'll check it later just to make sure I'm factually correct.

[Little-Rena]

At 1/20/21 05:23 AM, DingleberryClock wrote: Max wage should be 2.5x minimum wage

One human doesn't need 20-30x more than another to survive. Cap them off that 150k a year.

Now hold on a minute, this is some serious leftist thinking my friend, I'll have you know, around these parts, we only follow the teachings of the far right! Exploit the poor, and make more money than you will ever need, for the sole purpose of flauting it.

Yeah, I agree with this kind of model, it makes sense, unless someone is doing 10x the work of the lowest paid, why should they get 10x more? A lot of "low skill" jobs are also paid crap, even though those jobs are very much essential to keeping things going, hospital cleaner is a good one, a job not that many people want to do, shit hours and shit pay.

"Oh but poor people should just get an eduction and get a better paying job", anyone who thinks like this is a smoothbrain, if everyone had an education to get a better paying job, no one would be doing the shit jobs.

I supposee at least in the UK, essential workers got paid in bonus claps, that'll put food on the table!

[DingleberryClock]

At 1/20/21 11:34 AM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 05:23 AM, DingleberryClock wrote: Max wage should be 2.5x minimum wage

One human doesn't need 20-30x more than another to survive. Cap them off that 150k a year.

Now hold on a minute, this is some serious leftist thinking my friend, I'll have you know, around these parts, we only follow the teachings of the far right! Exploit the poor, and make more money than you will ever need, for the sole purpose of flauting it.

Yeah, I agree with this kind of model, it makes sense, unless someone is doing 10x the work of the lowest paid, why should they get 10x more? A lot of "low skill" jobs are also paid crap, even though those jobs are very much essential to keeping things going, hospital cleaner is a good one, a job not that many people want to do, shit hours and shit pay.

"Oh but poor people should just get an eduction and get a better paying job", anyone who thinks like this is a smoothbrain, if everyone had an education to get a better paying job, no one would be doing the shit jobs.

I supposee at least in the UK, essential workers got paid in bonus claps, that'll put food on the table!

If everyone had an education, rich people wouldnt be able to pay for one to stand out of the pack and the job field would be more competitive. Then it would be deemed unfair. Because that whole line of thinking can't really exist forever when population becomes sustaining without the need for work. Then, a meritocracy is a dystopia.

[Curtains-Joe]

At 1/20/21 11:34 AM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:
"Oh but poor people should just get an eduction and get a better paying job", anyone who thinks like this is a smoothbrain, if everyone had an education to get a better paying job, no one would be doing the shit jobs.

So the wages offered for the shit jobs would rise, supply and demmand.

[Little-Rena]

At 1/20/21 09:51 PM, Forty-Eight wrote:

At 1/20/21 11:34 AM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:
"Oh but poor people should just get an eduction and get a better paying job", anyone who thinks like this is a smoothbrain, if everyone had an education to get a better paying job, no one would be doing the shit jobs.

So the wages offered for the shit jobs would rise, supply and demmand.

Why aren't the wages for shit jobs already high, or rather, why do the bosses get so much more? Supply and demand is great for managing goods, and services, but people should be treated more than that, which they aren't. Profit comes before people, if you can pay people less, and increase your own pay, that's apparently a good thing.

The other problem with your supply and demand is that even if a cleaner became skilled enough to get a better job, if the job isn't there, they are stuck. It is a case where people can't move up, because the jobs aren't there, and those born into money will always have an upper hand.

There's an old quote I heard once. To make the rich work harder, pay them more, to make the poor work harder, pay them less.

[Curtains-Joe]

At 1/20/21 10:27 PM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 09:51 PM, Forty-Eight wrote:

At 1/20/21 11:34 AM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:
"Oh but poor people should just get an eduction and get a better paying job", anyone who thinks like this is a smoothbrain, if everyone had an education to get a better paying job, no one would be doing the shit jobs.

So the wages offered for the shit jobs would rise, supply and demmand.

Why aren't the wages for shit jobs already high,

Supply and demmand.

or rather, why do the bosses get so much more?

Partly because they are more valuable, partly because someone has to decide who gets payed what and they tend to get paid well.

Profit comes before people, if you can pay people less, and increase your own pay, that's apparently a good thing.

Paying people more than they are worth creates a dead weight loss in the economy and hurts everyone except those being overpaid unless their employer can't afford them.

Maximising returns for shareholders (in most cases) means a more effectively operating economy.

The other problem with your supply and demand is that even if a cleaner became skilled enough to get a better job, if the job isn't there, they are stuck. It is a case where people can't move up, because the jobs aren't there, and those born into money will always have an upper hand.

But effcient markets mean more jobs to go round.

[Little-Rena]

At 1/20/21 10:52 PM, Forty-Eight wrote: Paying people more than they are worth creates a dead weight loss in the economy and hurts everyone except those being overpaid unless their employer can't afford them.

I dunno man, hospital cleaners are quite important, especially at the moment, so surly they should be valued more than they are. You can get paid more for doing data entry for a big company than you can cleaning hospitals, it doesn't make sense.

Maximising returns for shareholders (in most cases) means a more effectively operating economy.

Shareholders are shit, get rid of them, then you don't have to pay shareholders! Or have more cooperatives, so the people who work for the business get a cut of profits, rather than the already rich shareholders.

But effcient markets mean more jobs to go round.

At the expense of the poor, some of whom need to work multiple jobs, but its okay because the fat cats can do little and get a lot, it's a real fair system 👍

[Sensationalism]

Anything after 1 billion automatically just goes back to the people.

[Curtains-Joe]

At 1/20/21 11:04 PM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 10:52 PM, Forty-Eight wrote: Paying people more than they are worth creates a dead weight loss in the economy and hurts everyone except those being overpaid unless their employer can't afford them.

I dunno man, hospital cleaners are quite important,

So is air but that's free.

Maximising returns for shareholders (in most cases) means a more effectively operating economy.

Shareholders are shit, get rid of them, then you don't have to pay shareholders! Or have more cooperatives, so the people who work for the business get a cut of profits, rather than the already rich shareholders.

Shareholders risk their money to get companies established and developed which is useful of them.

But effcient markets mean more jobs to go round.

At the expense of the poor, some of whom need to work multiple jobs, but its okay because the fat cats can do little and get a lot, it's a real fair system 👍

More jobs are good for the poor, more jobs means workers are more in demmand so are paid more and are not unemployed and have more better paid vaccancies to fill.

I never said it was fair...

The philosphy of constant growth is stupid, but the laws supply and demmand still stand.

[Little-Rena]

At 1/20/21 11:27 PM, Forty-Eight wrote:

At 1/20/21 11:04 PM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 10:52 PM, Forty-Eight wrote: Paying people more than they are worth creates a dead weight loss in the economy and hurts everyone except those being overpaid unless their employer can't afford them.

I dunno man, hospital cleaners are quite important,

So is air but that's free.

I'm sure if the super rich found a way to make people pay in order to breath, they would.

[Haggard]

At 1/21/21 12:08 AM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 11:27 PM, Forty-Eight wrote:

At 1/20/21 11:04 PM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 10:52 PM, Forty-Eight wrote: Paying people more than they are worth creates a dead weight loss in the economy and hurts everyone except those being overpaid unless their employer can't afford them.

I dunno man, hospital cleaners are quite important,

So is air but that's free.

I'm sure if the super rich found a way to make people pay in order to breath, they would.

They are already trying to privatize the water supply. So you are right, I guess.

[DamnedByFate]

At 1/20/21 10:52 PM, Forty-Eight wrote: Paying people more than they are worth

Going down that way, no one is "worth" a million dollars.

[UncleLad]

Raising minimum wage would get lots of people fired. Also inflation. Everything becomes more expensive.

I've been working at McDonald's. It's cool and I make some cash. Now if they raise the wage, the company can't afford to pay all of us. So we get fired so the money that would go to us can go to the employees that stay. It's really not gonna help anyone. I make $12 an hour and I really don't think raising it will help.

[EdyKel]

At 1/23/21 11:55 PM, UncleLad wrote: Raising minimum wage would get lots of people fired. Also inflation. Everything becomes more expensive.
I've been working at McDonald's. It's cool and I make some cash. Now if they raise the wage, the company can't afford to pay all of us. So we get fired so the money that would go to us can go to the employees that stay. It's really not gonna help anyone. I make $12 an hour and I really don't think raising it will help.

I'm pretty sure your $12 an hour job is safe with a rescission proof, multi-billion dollar company, which probably pays a lower tax rates than you do, and adds to the problems of poverty in this country.

[UncleLad]

At 1/24/21 02:27 AM, EdyKel wrote: I'm pretty sure your $12 an hour job is safe with a rescission proof, multi-billion dollar company, which probably pays a lower tax rates than you do, and adds to the problems of poverty in this country.

We're already at max employees about. I know some of my co-workers are gone now, so I'm kinda worried I'll lose my own job to higher-priority employees.

Also idk why you're so hostile towards Mcdon's I just want some tuition for college stuff man

[DieterTheuns]

At 1/24/21 03:14 AM, UncleLad wrote: Also idk why you're so hostile towards Mcdon's

Apart from causing global health problems, destroying small local trade, being the leading major cause of the climate crisis, having sickening law ethics, using literal slaves and being okay with animal cruelty?

You're not at fault for wanting to flip burgers for minimum wage or even like their grease disguised like McRibs. Lots of people do. But that doesn't mean you should be okay with it. Don't be afraid to also criticize these terrible, huge companies because they are hellbent on wrecking the planet and its inhabitants to reach its quarterly goal for a few investors.

At 1/24/21 03:14 AM, UncleLad wrote: I just want some tuition for college stuff man

That's the point. The government should be supporting you with enough fiscal strength so college isn't as expensive. In most developed countries, both elementary and college education is FAR cheaper. "Student debt" is a cruel concept that mostly doesn't exist outside of US. You deserve better from your government. As a citizen, you deserve a fair universal basic income.

[DamnWei]

A fixed wage is a bad idea. If inflation goes crazy like some latin murikan country, it would become waaaaaay too low. If it's too high and the government/bizness goes bankrupt, then no one gets paid... except the banks and debtors.

A derivative wage that's pegged to the performance of the bizness or government would make more sense. But since more biznesses go bankrupt than actually making money(usually after a few year), workers of most biznesses would probably starve to death befor they make a profit.

Alternatively make a "wage tax" , and then have the government pay the employees according to the overall economical health of the country, but this will of course create a huge bureacracy in the government which might just turn corrupt and ship off the wages to sekrit accounts in Cayman or Singapoor. That or the shitty politicians start giving themselves a much larger wage because they think taking in more taxes means they're doing a super jeb and should get paid more...

[DamnWei]

At 1/24/21 05:39 AM, test-object wrote:

At 1/24/21 03:14 AM, UncleLad wrote: Also idk why you're so hostile towards Mcdon's

Apart from causing global health problems, destroying small local trade, being the leading major cause of the climate crisis, having sickening law ethics, using literal slaves and being okay with animal cruelty?

The animal cruelty is a lie though. As in so called Factory Farms... which don't really exist. Not in USA at least.

https://protecttheharvest.com/news/busting-the-factory-farm-myth/

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/08/01/factory-farms-wreck-the-environment-and-other-myths-farmers-are-tired-of-hearing/

https://protecttheharvest.com/news/busting-the-factory-farm-myth/

People want to help and support local family farmers because they think that they are being crushed by huge agricultural corporations, but according to the USDA almost 97% of US farms are family-owned and operated.

Srzzzly all the accusation seem to come from hypocritical orgs like PETA or random "health" blogs, who are hardcore shilling for organics products and farms ,where they outright kill sick animals instead of treating with meds and vaccines.

As for methane cows. The most efficient way to deal with the root cause is to frankly kill yourself and every meat eater around. Or at least chop off your balls. The human population must be fed one way or the other unless you want another World War.

[DamnWei]

At 1/20/21 10:27 PM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:

At 1/20/21 09:51 PM, Forty-Eight wrote:

At 1/20/21 11:34 AM, Little-Seven-Seize wrote:
"Oh but poor people should just get an eduction and get a better paying job", anyone who thinks like this is a smoothbrain, if everyone had an education to get a better paying job, no one would be doing the shit jobs.

So the wages offered for the shit jobs would rise, supply and demmand.

Why aren't the wages for shit jobs already high, or rather, why do the bosses get so much more?

Japan gives higher wages for "KKK" jebs. But regressive countries like USA and mine still treat the "dirty" jebs as shit, and always try to hire the cheapest labour they can find. Legal or illegal.

[DieterTheuns]

At 1/24/21 09:25 AM, DamnWei wrote: The animal cruelty is a lie though. As in so called Factory Farms... which don't really exist. Not in USA at least.

Like. fucking. pottery.

Cry about PETA or Greenpeace being hypocrites all you want. Whatever you think they might be doing is a drip in an ocean of deception, corporate malpractice and capitalist extremism that is actually happening.

[EdyKel]

At 1/24/21 03:14 AM, UncleLad wrote:

At 1/24/21 02:27 AM, EdyKel wrote: I'm pretty sure your $12 an hour job is safe with a rescission proof, multi-billion dollar company, which probably pays a lower tax rates than you do, and adds to the problems of poverty in this country.

We're already at max employees about. I know some of my co-workers are gone now, so I'm kinda worried I'll lose my own job to higher-priority employees.
Also idk why you're so hostile towards Mcdon's I just want some tuition for college stuff man

Like most Americans who have ambivalent feelings towards large corporations, not for superficial reasons of hurt feelings or political views they may have, but because they are anti-competition in nature and contribute to a lot of the problems we have today, which have also split the country apart with their influence on government and social climbing for the average person.