At 11/5/18 12:19 AM, EdyKel wrote:

At 11/4/18 06:55 AM, billybobthwarten wrote:

At 11/2/18 08:39 PM, EdyKel wrote:

The mainstream media is only considered left leaning by conservatives standards

How would you know? You don't view it.

I go to Yahoo News, which posts articles from right, center, and left leaning sites, and the right (including right leaning posters) always use the term "mainstream media" as an inflection of something not to trust and being liberal.

You should really consume some televised news media, then you'd maybe see it.

Cuz that reply isn't even relevant. I figured you'd maybe grab some stats, but they're not really on your side.

It's like when you posted a link to an online news article to prove cnn spent time on an issue, watch their programs, one news article doesn't mean a damn thing.

Gab is back online. They found a new domain registry called Epik that has already made a statement defending them (and they’re going to gain business from Go Daddy as Gab supporters who have websites with domains from them, are going to switch to Epik), and they have a new host. So all the liberals and MSM did was give them free publicity which is already landing them more members.
Oh and did I mention the CEO of Epik is getting doxxed and threatened over this (incl on Twitter which violates their TOS)? And numerous people are joining for the sole purpose of making posts that violate their TOS (and it isn’t "crazy righties" doing it).

At 11/5/18 06:42 AM, billybobthwarten wrote:

At 11/5/18 12:19 AM, EdyKel wrote:

At 11/4/18 06:55 AM, billybobthwarten wrote:

At 11/2/18 08:39 PM, EdyKel wrote:

The mainstream media is only considered left leaning by conservatives standards

How would you know? You don't view it.

I go to Yahoo News, which posts articles from right, center, and left leaning sites, and the right (including right leaning posters) always use the term "mainstream media" as an inflection of something not to trust and being liberal.

You should really consume some televised news media, then you'd maybe see it.

Cuz that reply isn't even relevant. I figured you'd maybe grab some stats, but they're not really on your side.

It's like when you posted a link to an online news article to prove cnn spent time on an issue, watch their programs, one news article doesn't mean a damn thing.

*Sigh.

You still going on about this shit? I don't care about your unnatural obsession with CNN that you have to watch it just to hate it. I know where CNN stand without having to watch it, just like I know where FOX news stands. Both sides are shit, partisan, do selective coverage, and show as little as they can of embarrassing shit towards their party.

Anyways, I already disproved your claim that CNN didn't announce the shooter was a Bernie supporter, and I doubt you watched CNN all 24 hours every day of the week to be absolutely sure they didn't mention him.

Thousands signed a letter saying Trump was not welcome in Pittsburgh. He plans to visit anyway.
By Allyson Chiu and Amy B Wang October 29

More than 35,000 people have signed an open letter to President Trump from the leaders of a Pittsburgh-based Jewish group who say the president will not be welcome in the city unless he denounces white nationalism and stops “targeting” minorities after a mass shooting Saturday at a local synagogue left 11 dead.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/29/he-is-not-welcome-here-thousands-support-pittsburgh-jewish-leaders-calling-trump-denounce-white-nationalism/?utm_term=.1780cfc7a040

At 11/5/18 03:13 PM, sung47sung wrote: Thousands signed a letter saying Trump was not welcome in Pittsburgh. He plans to visit anyway.
By Allyson Chiu and Amy B Wang October 29

Kinda old news at this point, ain't it? The protest and blockade of Mr. 45's vehicle has already occurred, so... yeah.

At 11/5/18 11:15 AM, EdyKel wrote:

You still going on about this shit? I don't care about your unnatural obsession with CNN that you have to watch it just to hate it. I know where CNN stand without having to watch it, just like I know where FOX news stands. Both sides are shit, partisan, do selective coverage, and show as little as they can of embarrassing shit towards their party.

CNN and MSNBC are the mainstream media, couple of the largest names. They are the bias you deny and just acknowledged.

Keep on, you're just exposing your blindness.

At 11/6/18 06:54 AM, billybobthwarten wrote:

At 11/5/18 11:15 AM, EdyKel wrote: You still going on about this shit? I don't care about your unnatural obsession with CNN that you have to watch it just to hate it. I know where CNN stand without having to watch it, just like I know where FOX news stands. Both sides are shit, partisan, do selective coverage, and show as little as they can of embarrassing shit towards their party.

CNN and MSNBC are the mainstream media, couple of the largest names. They are the bias you deny and just acknowledged.

Keep on, you're just exposing your blindness.

You’re referring to this post, in which Edy never stated CNN was unbiased.

Drop this argument, as it should have concluded a week ago. Not continuing in other thread.

At 11/6/18 06:54 AM, billybobthwarten wrote:

At 11/5/18 11:15 AM, EdyKel wrote:

You still going on about this shit? I don't care about your unnatural obsession with CNN that you have to watch it just to hate it. I know where CNN stand without having to watch it, just like I know where FOX news stands. Both sides are shit, partisan, do selective coverage, and show as little as they can of embarrassing shit towards their party.

CNN and MSNBC are the mainstream media, couple of the largest names. They are the bias you deny and just acknowledged.

Keep on, you're just exposing your blindness.

I just wrote this in my last post:

"I know where CNN stand without having to watch it, just like I know where FOX news stands. Both sides are shit, partisan, do selective coverage, and show as little as they can of embarrassing shit towards their party."

How could you have missed that? Are you that blind?

But, again you prove my point.

Fox News has more people who watch it than CNN, or MSNBC. And for some reason, it's not considered part of mainstream media. You have the same thing with most conservative radio news station that dominate the top 20, but are not considered mainstream. You have Breibart News, NewsMax, PJ media, the Daily Caller, The Blaze, the Gateway pundit, all conservative websites that do very well and get a lot of traffic, but, again, are not considered mainstream. But anything that is considered centrist, or to the left, are automatically considered mainstream. Why is that?

This is what the right does. Anything that they think doesn't wear the conservative mantle, or they think criticizes, questions, the right, or points out bad behavior within the dominate culture they represent, are automatically saddled with negative connotations in an effort to undermine them. Simple words like liberal, or mainstream media, is to make it feel like everyone is against the right and their views, no matter if they are are more objective than biased.

At 11/6/18 08:17 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:

You’re referring to this post, in which Edy never stated CNN was unbiased.

Drop this argument, as it should have concluded a week ago. Not continuing in other thread.

I like how I get this message and then a reply on the topic I was told to drop.

At 11/7/18 05:58 AM, billybobthwarten wrote:

At 11/6/18 08:17 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: You’re referring to this post, in which Edy never stated CNN was unbiased.
Drop this argument, as it should have concluded a week ago. Not continuing in other thread.

I like how I get this message and then a reply on the topic I was told to drop.

You brought the argument from one thread to another. I don’t care about you playing the victim.

America. Land of the free.

At 11/7/18 09:54 PM, Heretic-Anchorite wrote: America. Land of the free.

I don’t think that story relates to Trump’s supporters, but could be worthy of its own thread.

At 11/5/18 12:00 AM, EdyKel wrote:

I`m just saying there`s no need to paint the devil blacker than he is;

That's like asking why are you overreacting to a natural reaction over an overreaction, and calling it overreaction, when you can't support your own argument for it.

Well i`m beginning to suspect over-reaction is just a natural reaction

People will naturally comment about abnormal behavior, especially when it comes from the president of a country, and when said president sends an armed force to the border over a average sized caravan that has happened a couple times before,

I don`t think it`s particularly abnormal to use armed forces to police the border if the border control are not up to the job, telling them to treat people throwing rocks as if they were firing rifles on the other hand sounds a lot like murder so 50/50 on that one.

and promotes zero tolerant policies against immigrants

*Illegal immigrants

Trump releases an advert featuring an immigrant murderer despite the fact immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than non-immigrants, but you have to embellish it by saying he`s calling all immigrants murderers,

And what are people supposed to take away from the ad other than a negative stereotype, because it does not put things into a proper perspective for them? That's the whole design of it, to make people think that immigrants bring crime with them.

* Illegal immigrants bringing crime with them

They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

''On the other hand, many fabulous people come in from Mexico and our country is better for it. But these people are here legally, and are severely hurt by those coming in illegally. I am proud to say that I know many hard working Mexicans—many of them are working for and with me ... and, just like our country, my organization is better for it.''

Trump wants to waste a large sum of money building a wall but you have to use quite convoluted logic to say it`s just because of race.

Whether you like it or not, this has a lot to do with race, which is very much part of a culture. And I hear to much about cultural invasion from the right, and a lot of support by white nationalists over it, to dismiss race from it.

In most countries control of the border is seen as necessary with nothing to do with race so idk

I've been called a racist, a Nazi, anti-white (and I am white), anti-christian, anti-Semitic,

That proves my point

mostly from the people on the right who are just like you, who think that they are being persecuted

Where exactly did I say I was being persecuted?

It just shit people on both sides say.

I don`t so much mind that people say it what bothers me Is that they believe it, and the number of people that do, and there many people that should know better doing it, it`s not a sign of a healthy society and it`s pretty irritating

Now, you may not agree with this, and that's fine, but don't come here claiming that people are overreacting to policies that can't be justified, or defended, from the rhetorical point of view they are being made from.

Why? what`s wrong with claiming that people are overreacting to policies that can't be justified, or defended, from the rhetorical point of view they are being made from?

And all it`s doing is making Trump stronger by making his opponents look stupid.

From what perspective?

I would have thought in a heavily polarised system that the more unpopular one side is the more the other side gains.

At 11/8/18 07:21 AM, GXFICH wrote:

At 11/5/18 12:00 AM, EdyKel wrote:

People will naturally comment about abnormal behavior, especially when it comes from the president of a country, and when said president sends an armed force to the border over a average sized caravan that has happened a couple times before,

I don`t think it`s particularly abnormal to use armed forces to police the border if the border control are not up to the job, telling them to treat people throwing rocks as if they were firing rifles on the other hand sounds a lot like murder so 50/50 on that one.

Here's a quick and dirty history lesson: These caravans of refugees are nothing new. Most of them are made up of woman and children. They have happened several times before, some were even larger than this one, but no other president in recent memory has ordered armed soldiers to the border to intimidate them. The problem here is that you are accepting all the unsubstantiated bullshit from Trump, who is trying to villainnize the shit out of them to help him out in an important election year, because he is fearful of Democrats controlling the House and properly investigating him. It's all a political stunt,and feeds into identity politics.

and promotes zero tolerant policies against immigrants

*Illegal immigrants

No, not just illegal immigrants, but all immigrants, especially focused on certain countries over others, and sending them a strong message with his zero tolerance polices- in a time when immigration, and illegal immigration, is down, before he took office.

Trump releases an advert featuring an immigrant murderer despite the fact immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than non-immigrants, but you have to embellish it by saying he`s calling all immigrants murderers,

And what are people supposed to take away from the ad other than a negative stereotype, because it does not put things into a proper perspective for them? That's the whole design of it, to make people think that immigrants bring crime with them.

* Illegal immigrants bringing crime with them

Congrats on accepting the rhetoric that you condemned me for reading too much into.You are supporting a negative racial stereotype and generalization (at least in the US, because we don't think white, or European, as illegal immigrants), which is unsubstantiated. And let's be clear, the immigrants in this caravan (which the ad portrays as criminals), are not illegal immigrants since they are not living here, they are refugees seeking asylum in this country. Not much more to it than that.

They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

''On the other hand, many fabulous people come in from Mexico and our country is better for it. But these people are here legally, and are severely hurt by those coming in illegally. I am proud to say that I know many hard working Mexicans—many of them are working for and with me ... and, just like our country, my organization is better for it.''

Trump has two face (maybe more) depending on who he is talking to. That statement right there came from a 3 page letter that was in response to criticism he received for calling Mexicans at a rally criminal and rapists. He lost a lot of business when he said those things, so he wrote (or had someone else write it) to double down on his claims that Mexicans are bad for the US because of their inherit problems while implying that he was the true victim of all this. You don't have to look very far to see he says a lot of racist shit about Mexicans, because that is what his base wants and that's what he going to give them. It's all identity politics.

Trump wants to waste a large sum of money building a wall but you have to use quite convoluted logic to say it`s just because of race.

Whether you like it or not, this has a lot to do with race, which is very much part of a culture. And I hear to much about cultural invasion from the right, and a lot of support by white nationalists over it, to dismiss race from it.

In most countries control of the border is seen as necessary with nothing to do with race so idk

And that is how it should be treated, and how other presidents have treated it. Bush grew government through creating new departments like Homeland Security, and ICE, which were charged with going after illegal immigrants and terrorists (foreign or domestic), but he never vilified religions or other race and cultures. Obama is credited with deporting more illegal immigrant than any other recent president, but did not make a huge deal out of it.

Now, we come to Trump, who villainizes religions, and other cultures, appealing to people like you, who approve of it, while not being able to substantiate it as anything but BS, but fearing that your unreasonable fears that lead you to support such BS may label you as a racist... Again, this is all identity politics, and while the left may label it as racist, the center calls it race bating by Trump.

I've been called a racist, a Nazi, anti-white (and I am white), anti-christian, anti-Semitic,

That proves my point

No. It doesn't. If you accept BS over race bating identity politics, and you think others justify your views by what they call you, then what does that say about you? I've been called this shit because people just disagree with me, and because they can't justify their views with actual facts and statistics - or can't agree with reasonable opinion or arguments.

As I told you before, I'm not into identity politics, and wish most people weren't, I just don't like all the bullshit and fake news which leads people to those things. I also hate it when people play the victim card and have little to show for it other than hurt feelings and a high sense of superiority.

Now, you may not agree with this, and that's fine, but don't come here claiming that people are overreacting to policies that can't be justified, or defended, from the rhetorical point of view they are being made from.

Why? what`s wrong with claiming that people are overreacting to policies that can't be justified, or defended, from the rhetorical point of view they are being made from?

What have you to show for up to this point, other than an overreaction to me pointing out what Trump did, and making excuses for Trump's identity politicsl and overreaction? Have you shown actual facts that support your position? No. Have you shown statistics that back up your argument? No. Have you compared the actions of other politicians who accomplished similar goals over immigration without all the identity political rhetoric and political stunts. No. Have you made a reasonable argument other than blaming the other side for overreacting and accusing them of using identity politics? No. I have done all of this. I have done all the work, while you sit their complaining and having nothing to show. Start doing your own research.

At 11/9/18 12:53 AM, EdyKel wrote:

and promotes zero tolerant policies against immigrants

*Illegal immigrants

No, not just illegal immigrants, but all immigrants, especially focused on certain countries over others, and sending them a strong message with his zero tolerance polices- in a time when immigration, and illegal immigration, is down, before he took office.

My idea of a Zero tolerance policy against immigrants would be one with literally no tolerance towards immigrants ie. rounding them up and deporting or killing them all.
But no point arguing over semantics.

* Illegal immigrants bringing crime with them

And let's be clear, the immigrants in this caravan (which the ad portrays as criminals), are not illegal immigrants since they are not living here, they are refugees seeking asylum in this country. Not much more to it than that.

fair enough but it`s still a bit of a leap to suggest he`s calling minorities murders or that`s what he believes.

Trump has two face (maybe more) depending on who he is talking to. That statement right there came from a 3 page letter that was in response to criticism he received for calling Mexicans at a rally criminal and rapists.

I`m pretty sure he was just calling (or heavily implying) most of the illegal immigrants from Mexico were criminals and rapists "They are not sending their best people."

No. It doesn't. If you accept BS over race bating identity politics, and you think others justify your views by what they call you,

It does if my view is there are too many doing it.

Now, you may not agree with this, and that's fine, but don't come here claiming that people are overreacting to policies that can't be justified, or defended, from the rhetorical point of view they are being made from.

Why? what`s wrong with claiming that people are overreacting to policies that can't be justified, or defended, from the rhetorical point of view they are being made from?

What have you to show for up to this point, other than an overreaction to me pointing out what Trump did, and making excuses for Trump's identity politicsl and overreaction?

Do I really need to back up that people over react to Trump?
Just take his thread for example:

At 5/30/18 08:49 AM, Heretic-Anchorite wrote: Why should I respect them when they are racist islamaphobes who whine about people who disagree with them.

There are so many double standards at play here, so trump supporters can eat my ass and can go f*ck themselves.

At 8/20/18 03:29 PM, Aethelfeld wrote: Trump is a Nazi and turning the entire country Nazi. War isn't tolerant. Deporting people isn't tolerant. Not letting gays get married isn't Tolerant.

At 9/16/18 12:14 AM, billybob505 wrote: Trump is retarded, and the people who think he is doing a good job are also retarded or really dense.

At 10/9/18 04:31 PM, MrPercie wrote: the trade war with china which is making the owner of alibaba pull out of expanding his buisness to the US with 1 million jobs

so yes for excessive capitalist liberal economics and white entrepreneurs, but not for chinks, its CLEARLY gone too far for that to happen, and so requires to be regulated

And what exactly were you implying when you posted the news of the MAGA bomber in a thread titled "Trump`s supporters want respect"?

Here are some links from this thread

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-12/he-was-screaming-f-ck-trump-republican-candidate-nearly-stabbed-deranged-democrat

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/11/mark-bird-college-southern-nevada-professor-shot-h/

https://youtu.be/k5mWbexIuEo
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fnews%2fthe-fix%2fwp%2f2018%2f06%2f25%2fdemocratic-congresswoman-maxine-waters-calls-for-harassment-of-trump-officials%2f%3fnoredirect%3don%26utm_term%3d.160d7f58e035&noredirect=on&utm_term=.d969175a64f3

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/west-hollywood-passes-resolution-to-remove-trumps-star-from-walk-of-fame_08072018

Here are more

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/11/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-you-asked-russia-hack-me/1605716002/

Even the gaurdian agrees with me

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/07/16/its-not-wrong-to-compare-trumps-america-to-the-holocaust-heres-why/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c3de570792c4

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/5/17940610/trump-hitler-history-historian

I think I can fairly say that some people definitely do over react to Trump

Have you shown actual facts that support your position? No. Have you shown statistics that back up your argument? No.

"The latest findings solidify their positions as the two most unpopular presidential candidates in polling dating back more than 30 years"

It wasn't that she was unpopular, she just didn't have a strong enough message that united the left, and moderates

No. Have you made a reasonable argument other than blaming the other side for overreacting and accusing them of using identity politics? No.

So you admit blaming the the other side for overreacting and accusing them of using identity politics is a reasonable argument cool.

I`m not saying Trump doesn`t do any of this I`m just saying there`s a bit of a feed back loop going on, Trump Over-reacts to something the opposition over-react to his over-reaction then Trump over-reacts to their over-reaction.

thats false its usually the motivated and energetic aspects of a population who are prompted to leave a nation anyway if anything illegal immigration is resulting in a brain drain in south american countries...
since all the smart folks know they will have better luck in the USA...

They march through a country that already offered them asylum, which they refused. They could also take all that energy and motivation to fix the mess in their own countries instead of bringing it to a new one.

At 11/9/18 11:30 AM, Kel-chan wrote:

thats false its usually the motivated and energetic aspects of a population who are prompted to leave a nation anyway if anything illegal immigration is resulting in a brain drain in south american countries...
since all the smart folks know they will have better luck in the USA...

They march through a country that already offered them asylum, which they refused. They could also take all that energy and motivation to fix the mess in their own countries instead of bringing it to a new one.

Just to keep things on track, isn’t the original argument about some illegal immigrants being criminals?
It seems sensible for immigrants to be motivated to provide opportunities for themselves and their familes.

At 11/9/18 11:52 AM, Zornuzkull wrote:

At 11/9/18 11:30 AM, Kel-chan wrote:

thats false its usually the motivated and energetic aspects of a population who are prompted to leave a nation anyway if anything illegal immigration is resulting in a brain drain in south american countries...
since all the smart folks know they will have better luck in the USA...

They march through a country that already offered them asylum, which they refused. They could also take all that energy and motivation to fix the mess in their own countries instead of bringing it to a new one.

so you know for a fact all of them turned down asylum? and its not like the Mexican government hasn't welched on deals like this before is it?

I thought I heard there were some that had accepted...

If any refused though, their intent is clear. It's not for the safety and protection asylum offers, it's the specific intent of entry into the United States.

At 11/9/18 12:06 PM, Zornuzkull wrote:

its your own fault for not being as shit as mexico... your victims of your own success...
besides are these folks refugees migrants or immigrants even im confused now...

Seem to be regular old immigrants, wanting to jump the line and get special status.

At 11/9/18 11:55 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: Just to keep things on track, isn’t the original argument about some illegal immigrants being criminals?
It seems sensible for immigrants to be motivated to provide opportunities for themselves and their familes.

Some criminals, probably, some other foreigners mixed in the parade, probably. That is precisely the reason to keep them out. Also, its a slap in the face to every legal immigrant in this country. Also a terrible precedent, if they were to allow a hoarde of random 1000s to just cross the border whenever the hell they feel like it, well then... you don't have a country. There will be never ending waves of everybody wanting to come here. This is the problem with free lunches. You have enough food.....until you don't.

Everybody wants something in life. Doesn't mean they're some how entitled to it. This "mass migration" is akin to mob looting of stores. I'm sure there are some well meaning people that just want a better life. Get in line. So does everyone else.

At 11/9/18 12:51 PM, Kel-chan wrote:
Everybody wants something in life. Doesn't mean they're some how entitled to it. This "mass migration" is akin to mob looting of stores. I'm sure there are some well meaning people that just want a better life. Get in line. So does everyone else.

Are you edys right wing twin or something?

At 11/9/18 01:12 PM, Zornuzkull wrote:

At 11/9/18 12:51 PM, Kel-chan wrote: Also a terrible precedent, if they were to allow a hoarde of random 1000s to just cross the border whenever the hell they
feel like it, well then... you don't have a country.

so the USA wasnt a country until the early 20th century then?

There was a thing called the Mexican-American war. Established the border and the blues, union troops and settlers patrolled it the best they could for the time period. Mass illegal immigration wasnt much of an issue until the 20th century and the gradual institution of more and more welfare options

At 11/9/18 08:39 AM, GXFICH wrote:

At 11/9/18 12:53 AM, EdyKel wrote:

My idea of a Zero tolerance policy against immigrants would be one with literally no tolerance towards immigrants ie. rounding them up and deporting or killing them all.
But no point arguing over semantics.

You may not like the term "Zero tolerance", but that's the only way you can really describe Trump's hard line stance on immigration since he is willing to prosecute all individuals, regardless of reason, if they try to step foot into the US, including children of immigrants who have lived here for over 30-40 years - which he once said would be mean. So, now, we have ICE reminding people of a gestapo, but instead of looking for Jews, they are looking for any an all people living in the US illegally, and tearing families apart, and kicking them out regardless if they have lived a productive life and pay all their taxes. It's basically trying to shut down all immigration into this country, especially from certain countries,, or to scare and intimidate them not to come.

Previous Presidents have never gone that far, because they thought it was morally wrong to do so. And there is no point for what Trump is doing right now, none, not for national security, or economic hardship on this country, or that they are leeches. There is nothing to support his hard line, zero tolerance, policies, other than to pander to his base which just eat it up. Other Presidents took care of our immigration problem just fine, on both sides of the aisle. But Trump is heavily politicizing it and making it harder to fix the numerous problem within it by going so hard line on it.

And let's be clear, the immigrants in this caravan (which the ad portrays as criminals), are not illegal immigrants since they are not living here, they are refugees seeking asylum in this country. Not much more to it than that.

fair enough but it`s still a bit of a leap to suggest he`s calling minorities murders or that`s what he believes.

It really doesn't matter anymore because of the amount of times he does or says something that could potentially be called racist. If he just said it once or twice, you can forgive him for misspeaking. But if he continues to do it, over and over, as he has done, he establishes a clear and present pattern, which shows intent, and his intent is to promote that view and establish a negative stereotype over particular groups, usually groups that is not representative of his own base - which you, up to this point, believed that immigrant brought a lot of crime with them. There is no other possible reason for these policies or his words. It's certainly not to unite everyone, but pander to the insecurities of his own base - mostly white, Christian, and males, the 3 groups that overwhelmingly voted for him and continue to support him.

Trump may not be an outright white nationalist, but he flirts so close to it that it alarms many groups who are not his base. From his Jewish conspiracy theories, his racial stereotypes on minorities, his villainization on Muslims and immigrants... it all deviates from other presidents in recent time, who have handled these things better, and who often accomplished similar ends without all the nonsense that Trumps say and does. Trump is using identity politics, pushing the boundaries of it, making people accept out right bullshit an immorality to justify the things he does and says that other presidents would be held accountable for. He preys on his base's racial and cultural insecurity, convincing them that they are victims of the left, and minorities, that they are the ones being persecuted, not the other way around, when statistics show otherwise. He knows that his base is weary of any cultural changes to their status quo, and he has made it worse.

It's also why he never goes after whites for all the mass shooting they do (it's always mental illness), but if a crime involves a Mexican illegal immigrant, or Muslim, he's all over that shit and saying it's indicative of that race/religion. That's the difference.

Trump has two face (maybe more) depending on who he is talking to. That statement right there came from a 3 page letter that was in response to criticism he received for calling Mexicans at a rally criminal and rapists.

I`m pretty sure he was just calling (or heavily implying) most of the illegal immigrants from Mexico were criminals and rapists "They are not sending their best people."

You lost me there. Whatever you are trying to say, it still makes what Trump says false. It don't matter if he implies "all" or "most", you can't shine a turd to make it look better with any of those terms.

What have you to show for up to this point, other than an overreaction to me pointing out what Trump did, and making excuses for Trump's identity politicsl and overreaction?

Do I really need to back up that people over react to Trump?

Again, you have nothing to show. Nothing. I say this because the same shit happened to Obama and his supporters. They were called racists and Nazis, and other stuff, with many being threatened and losing their jobs if they voted for him. You had all sorts of conspiracies about death panels in the new heath care law that Obama signed into law. You had conspiracies that Obama was not American born - with Trump, and other people on the right, promoting it. You had conspiracies that he was secretly with the Muslim brotherhood because he was a secretive muslin.... or the anti-Christ. I could go on..... But I don't really care. I just bring this up when Trump supporters think they are being treated unfairly, or think they are being persecuted, and hoping people forget the shit that their side did to the other, and are now playing the victim card why continuing their attacks against the other side. It's all a games of trying to out-whine the other side for public sympathy.

And when people do this shit I bring up statistics, and actual example of persecutions, to compare their grievances to. To me, it sounds like they want an unfair playing field, while never experiencing racial discrimination, racial profiling, racial/religious violence, actual racial/religious harassment, and when you bring up the statistic, or point all this out, and white nationalist marching in the street, they get upset and say a lot of stupid shit that does not counter any of it. I see this all the time from Trump supporters.

Have you made a reasonable argument other than blaming the other side for overreacting and accusing them of using identity politics? No.

So you admit blaming the the other side for overreacting and accusing them of using identity politics is a reasonable argument cool.

Considering that's how you started this discussion.... And considering that security issue, mostly surrounding immigration, was a bigger issue for Trump supporters than the economy, or health care for the recent election.... Right, now, Trump supporters are fighting to retain their national identity for the country and want it protected. That's what they are interested in, identity politics, though they won't call it that, they call it security issues...

I`m not saying Trump doesn`t do any of this I`m just saying there`s a bit of a feed back loop going on, Trump Over-reacts to something the opposition over-react to his over-reaction then Trump over-reacts to their over-reaction.

Should I remind you how this discussion got started, and your inability to show that Trump acted reasonably?

At 11/10/18 01:12 AM, Zornuzkull wrote: am i reading this right Trump cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%?
you know thats not good for anyone right? besides the guys who already own everything...

The whole idea that it was pitched on was that the US was not very competitive over corporate taxes, having one of the highest in the world, and was losing out to foreign countries that had lower offshore profits that were luring US corporation to set up a satellite companies there in that country that would exploit a US tax loophole on offshore profits - allowing US corporation to get a lower tax rate and depriving the US of revenue. It was also meant to lure manufacturing jobs back to the US, lead to more jobs, and higher pay.... But so far it hasn't done much of any of that for the scope of it.

Since the corporate tax cuts was not tied to just foreign profits, corporations are just using it to show higher profits, pay down their debt, buy out shareholders, givehigher salaries to upper management, with some companies actually raising wages slightly, or offer one time bonuses, to their workers. Even the whole purpose of those tax cuts to get companies to bring back manufacturing, or offshore profits, has not really taken off....

Sure, the stock market has gone up to historic highs, and we have a very low unemployment rate, and average wages have slightly increased, but it's hard to know if it's just because of those tax cuts alone, or because of all the fiscal stimulus that Trump, and Republicans, keep pumping into the economy to keep it running. All of this combined is leading to lower revenue, and higher deficit spending, which is skyrocketing our national debt - something that Republicans weer outrage over when Obama was in office after the financial crisis, but are now as silent as a mouse fart in the wind over it.

These tax cuts are pretty reckless, just like Trump, which are about short term gains at the expense of the future - where it will be someone else's problem by then.

Another Trump-branded building decided to take down the president's name

David A. Fahrenthold Washington Post Oct.17,2018

The residents of a Manhattan condominium called "Trump Place" have voted to remove the president's name from the tower's facade, the latest in a string of properties that have distanced themselves from the Trump brand since Election Day 2016.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-place-name-20181017-story.html

At 11/10/18 12:11 AM, EdyKel wrote:
You may not like the term "Zero tolerance", but that's the only way you can really describe Trump's hard line stance on immigration since he is willing to prosecute all individuals, regardless of reason, if they try to step foot into the US, including children of immigrants who have lived here for over 30-40 years - which he once said would be mean.

Only if they are there illegally

It's basically trying to shut down all immigration into this country, especially from certain countries,, or to scare and intimidate them not to come.

There`s not much danger of that happening enough people immigrated to the US to fill a small country in 2017 alone.

Other Presidents took care of our immigration problem just fine, on both sides of the aisle.

debatable

fair enough but it`s still a bit of a leap to suggest he`s calling minorities murders or that`s what he believes.

It really doesn't matter anymore because of the amount of times he does or says something that could potentially be called racist.

Just about anything could be potentially called racist but that aside you made quite a serious allegation which is objectively false.

Don`t do that k?

Trump may not be an outright white nationalist, but he flirts so close to it that it alarms many groups who are not his base. From his Jewish conspiracy theories,

What Jewish conspiracy theories?

I`m pretty sure he was just calling (or heavily implying) most of the illegal immigrants from Mexico were criminals and rapists "They are not sending their best people."

You lost me there. Whatever you are trying to say, it still makes what Trump says false. It don't matter if he implies "all" or "most", you can't shine a turd to make it look better with any of those terms.

He didn`t imply most Mexicans were criminals but most Mexicans crossing the border illegally, which is still demonstrably false but still try to get your facts straight.

Do I really need to back up that people over react to Trump?

Again, you have nothing to show. Nothing. I say this because the same shit happened to Obama and his supporters. They were called racists and Nazis, and other stuff,

People went insane over Obama so people doing the same to Trump don`t count?

Just because it`s sort of normalised doesn`t mean it`s not an issue.

So you admit blaming the the other side for overreacting and accusing them of using identity politics is a reasonable argument cool.

Considering that's how you started this discussion....

yes..

And considering that security issue, mostly surrounding immigration, was a bigger issue for Trump supporters than the economy, or health care for the recent election....

Ok...

Right, now, Trump supporters are fighting to retain their national identity for the country and want it protected. That's what they are interested in, identity politics, though they won't call it that, they call it security issues...

You`re not making any sense you just ignored what I said and went off on a tangent,

Don`t do that 2 k thx.

Should I remind you how this discussion got started,

I pointed out that your post was highly misleading and offered my fairly uniformed opinion?

and your inability to show that Trump acted reasonably?

I haven`t tried to show that Trump acted reasonably,
It would be quite an undertaking but I could try if that`s what you want?

At 11/12/18 12:16 PM, GXFICH wrote:

At 11/10/18 12:11 AM, EdyKel wrote:
You may not like the term "Zero tolerance", but that's the only way you can really describe Trump's hard line stance on immigration since he is willing to prosecute all individuals, regardless of reason, if they try to step foot into the US, including children of immigrants who have lived here for over 30-40 years - which he once said would be mean.

Only if they are there illegally

I know you're stuck on this whole illegal thing, but that's basically defining every immigrant, regardless of circumstance, who would be considered illegal, even if they had no choice where they lived, or if their foot hasn't even stepped into the country yet. We don't need such draconian views of it, or responses. All you are giving me is excuses for things that can't be justified, and could have been treated differently and without all the rhetoric.

It's basically trying to shut down all immigration into this country, especially from certain countries,, or to scare and intimidate them not to come.

There`s not much danger of that happening enough people immigrated to the US to fill a small country in 2017 alone.

Doesn't change the fact that Trump is treating it that way, which is unnecessary and overboard.

Other Presidents took care of our immigration problem just fine, on both sides of the aisle.

debatable

Well, speaking hypothetically, if you are for zero-immigration, particularly from countries you think are shit holes because you have negative stereotypes about them, while hating any an all stereotypes, or negative shit, over people who share your views on immigration, then maybe you can debate the effectiveness of previous presidents who have done more than Trump without all the unnecessary policies and rhetoric. To me, it's not really debatable, for thing that can't be piratically, or morally, justified.

It really doesn't matter anymore because of the amount of times he does or says something that could potentially be called racist.

Just about anything could be potentially called racist but that aside you made quite a serious allegation which is objectively false

And there are many thing that could be considered racist, but are often downplayed out of fear that it will give the wrong impression, while giving cover to actual racism. I think this is what you are doing with Trump. You are either playing ignorant, or you just don't want to see it. But you haven't been able to refute anything I have said, just a bunch of strawmaning me, and others. All you have done is downplayed everything he does, by claiming it's the other sides fault for some reason.

If you were honest, you wouldn't be playing this game of "He didn't say all' bullshit, when it's heavily implied, over and over, and over by his own words and actions - and that his policies are going overboard. He not saying it's done by a few, he's just creating a stereotype that even you didn't dispute until I pointed out the statistics. And it is a racial stereotype. This goes on same lines as his attacks on Muslims, and his Muslim travel ban - jumping up every time one is involved in a terrorist attack, and promoting a racial stereotype that Muslims are terrorist, when we get more terrorist attacks from white men in this country. Hell, he doesn't have much nice things to say about blacks, once making an outrageous claim that race is responsible for 81% of white homicides - which was traced to a white nationalist site. Not to mention his conspiracies of Jews and globalism, especially Democrat campaign backers - which he has done for years. It just goes on an on, which the media is more likely to call it the following than racism: racially loaded, racially charged, racially tinged, racially sensitive. You can't defend it, or downplay it, when he readily jumps on any crime committed by Muslims, or an immigrants, while being mum on racial attack, or other terrorist acts, by whites. He has racially selected outrage that is very apparent, all but his supporters.

Is Trump a rcist? He does promote a lot of negative racial stereotypes, while never doing the same to his own base of white, male, and christian.... And I have noticed you keep running away from that, while accusing me of being off topic,if only because you can't counter any of it. As I have said before,Trump is all about identity politics, and is race baiting, which has a whole heck of a lot to do with this discussion.

You lost me there. Whatever you are trying to say, it still makes what Trump says false. It don't matter if he implies "all" or "most", you can't shine a turd to make it look better with any of those terms.

He didn`t imply most Mexicans were criminals but most Mexicans crossing the border illegally, which is still demonstrably false but still try to get your facts straight.

Don't try to spin it. I'm done with your spin on this shit. You can't justify his rhetoric ,or his ad, which makes it very clear what he is conveying to his base.

Do I really need to back up that people over react to Trump?

Again, you have nothing to show. Nothing. I say this because the same shit happened to Obama and his supporters. They were called racists and Nazis, and other stuff,

People went insane over Obama so people doing the same to Trump don`t count?

Just because it`s sort of normalised doesn`t mean it`s not an issue.

I always love this excuse. You got someone who rants about the others side, ignoring past and current actions from their side, and when they are presented with the bad behavior from the side they are supporting, and defending, they suddenly try to claim they are impartial by saying that all such behavior is bad,or an issue, while continuing to accept that type of behavior from their side, while continuing to hold the other side to a higher standard and more responsible for ending or starting it.

I told you, I don't play these game. I told you I don't really give a shit about it, and only bring this up when people are whining about how their side Is being persecuted. The fact is you fully approve of this shit, and have no problem with being it being rude, or supporting bad behavior, because you don't want to see those things as such. It's why you are silent on Trumps racial attacks on certain groups, because you don't want to see it as wrong, but the other side being wrong.

Should I remind you how this discussion got started,

I pointed out that your post was highly misleading and offered my fairly uniformed opinion?

No, you overreacted, and claimed that my interpretation of an overreaction was false, while being unable to disprove it. You spend most of your time claiming some silly nonsense that I am somehow in the wrong, and running away from anything you can't rebut. That sums this whole thing up so far.

At 11/12/18 11:24 PM, EdyKel wrote:
many things

I get it you`re only interested in attacking Trump so whatever anyone says about anything that isn`t attacking Trump then you like to pretend they are a Trump supporter.

Have you tried 4chan?
Because the person you like to pretend you are arguing with actually exists there.

At 11/13/18 04:35 AM, GXFICH wrote:

At 11/12/18 11:24 PM, EdyKel wrote:
many things

I get it you`re only interested in attacking Trump so whatever anyone says about anything that isn`t attacking Trump then you like to pretend they are a Trump supporter.

Have you tried 4chan?
Because the person you like to pretend you are arguing with actually exists there.

Son, get off your ivory tower. I keep noticing this isn't the first time you overreact when you take a position that you think are moderate, but are more farther down the path of the right ( that you want to admit), while placing others farther down the left so you can have an argument. You are also sensitive as hell towards any perceived offense, while being also the first to offend because you naturally look down on people more than I do without any self relection.

If you can't rebut other people's argument without running away (deflecting), or insulting them, then you have an argument that ain't worth a damn. It's as simple as that.

At 11/13/18 11:07 AM, EdyKel wrote:

If you can't rebut other people's argument without running away (deflecting), or insulting them, then you have an argument that ain't worth a damn. It's as simple as that.

...