Are sub-genres restrictive?

[IndustryStandard]

I have a problem. It's not a big problem, but it's mine and i will cherish it always. Anyways, that problem is that when I go to post a song, I never know what sub-genre to choose from. sure it's electronic, but is it techno? drum n bass? I could google the definitions of the sub-genres, or look up some examples on this very website but the what i wanted to ask you fine folksy fellows is this: Do sub-genres limit what we're exposed to?

It's nice to be able to classify what we know we like, since it helps us relate to others and find more of that same stuff, but when it comes to finding new music, I feel like sub-genres might keep us from discovering hidden gems in sub-genres we don't usually check out, like maybe you like Trap music, and don't generally like Chiptune, but someone out there might have made a song that mixes the two genres together and classified it under Chiptune, meaning this hypothetical person isn't likely to ever find what would otherwise be a very uniquely enjoyable song to them.

I guess it's a similar theory to when Morty (of Rick and Morty fame) says He and Rick should listen to a random song every day, which is a good idea I think, but the more you limit that pool of random songs - and the more you're able to classify what you like, the more you're likely to do just that - the more pointless that idea becomes. I've always felt that it's important to remember that you may know what you like, and of course you want more of that, but it's impossible to know exactly what you wantsince anything that will truly blow your mind is impossible to predict, and will come from the most unexpected places.

TL;DR - Do sub-genres keep us from discovering things that we'd find surprisingly enjoyable in genres we don't generally like?

[DrunkGecko]

Well, in the case of metal subgenres, not really

[Yeahyay]

I think that on paper, they do, but subgenres are sort of vague in their requirements for the most part. Many songs tend to cross a few subgenres with one dominant one. For example, a drum and bass song but half time became to common that it got its own subgenre: drumstep. Unique songs that combine genres, as a result, are generally more difficult to find. Sadly, subgenres restrict what someone can experience most of the time.
It's not really a big problem for me because I listen to anything and everything; pretty much.
That has the issue of me not experiencing everything with one subgenre, however.

[IndustryStandard]

At 5/8/18 11:59 AM, GavinPyon wrote: Well, in the case of metal subgenres, not really

Yeah I guess it's kinda hard to be restrictive when there are a million different sub genres for your genre

[DrunkGecko]

At 5/13/18 11:01 PM, IndustryStandard wrote:

At 5/8/18 11:59 AM, GavinPyon wrote: Well, in the case of metal subgenres, not really

Yeah I guess it's kinda hard to be restrictive when there are a million different sub genres for your genre

That aint my only genre m8
I also like rap, electronica, and acoustic

[Troisnyx]

I don't know for sure. I lean predominantly towards classical, world, jazz, synthwave, ambient -- and most of these have subgenres, but NOT classical and world. Jazz has loads of divisions.

Classical and world not having divisions only makes it harder for people to distinguish between the neomedieval fantasy stuff that Enya, Akiko Shikata and their like do, and proper classical-sounding stuff, and things that really have an ethnic flair, as opposed to being syncretic. Safe to say I'm not *strictly* any of the above, I blend my genres together -- and it's not only hard for people to find me, it's also hard for me to place my music in a genre that people can most relate to.

[etherealwinds]

At 5/14/18 05:53 AM, Troisnyx wrote: I don't know for sure. I lean predominantly towards classical, world, jazz, synthwave, ambient -- and most of these have subgenres, but NOT classical and world. Jazz has loads of divisions.

Classical and world not having divisions only makes it harder for people to distinguish between the neomedieval fantasy stuff that Enya, Akiko Shikata and their like do, and proper classical-sounding stuff, and things that really have an ethnic flair, as opposed to being syncretic. Safe to say I'm not *strictly* any of the above, I blend my genres together -- and it's not only hard for people to find me, it's also hard for me to place my music in a genre that people can most relate to.

preaaaaaaaach!

I guess we're similar (especially in my more recent music) in the sense that I like to fuse medieval/world instruments with electronic, often video-game inspired sounds. Two things that are generally so far away from each other on the spectrum of genres. I usually just find myself opting for 'new age' simply because most of my music tends to be quite relaxing to listen to. We should definitely start a few new genre terms though.

Edit: Just came up with a damn good term that describes my music, which I'm now stealing for my album title/concept so thank you thread hahaha

[ADR3-N]

At 5/14/18 05:53 AM, Troisnyx wrote: Classical and world not having divisions only makes it harder for people to distinguish between the neomedieval fantasy stuff that Enya, Akiko Shikata and their like do, and proper classical-sounding stuff, and things that really have an ethnic flair, as opposed to being syncretic. Safe to say I'm not *strictly* any of the above, I blend my genres together -- and it's not only hard for people to find me, it's also hard for me to place my music in a genre that people can most relate to.

Honestly, subgenre is restrictive only if you're trying for a particular subgenre exclusively. I do feel stifled by the lack of them more often than not, as described here.

It's kind of like when I hit Heavy Metal around here and find more fuzz metal than metalcore or djent, which I prefer to fuzz. Tags help, but at the same time, there is no uniform system of tags, so it's SUPER hard to find consistent genres, both for me and for my listeners.

[IndustryStandard]

At 5/13/18 11:05 PM, GavinPyon wrote:

At 5/13/18 11:01 PM, IndustryStandard wrote:

At 5/8/18 11:59 AM, GavinPyon wrote: Well, in the case of metal subgenres, not really

Yeah I guess it's kinda hard to be restrictive when there are a million different sub genres for your genre

That aint my only genre m8
I also like rap, electronica, and acoustic

I just meant "your" in like a broad sense, wasn't trying to call you or or anything

[Ultramartyr]

everyone should do themselves a favor and put very little stock in genre labeling, because there will always be a snobby dickface who's never created music out there to tell you No, it belongs in THIS subgenre, you moron!

it does not matter and i pay no attention to it.

[IndustryStandard]

At 5/14/18 05:53 AM, Troisnyx wrote: I don't know for sure. I lean predominantly towards classical, world, jazz, synthwave, ambient -- and most of these have subgenres, but NOT classical and world. Jazz has loads of divisions.

Classical and world not having divisions only makes it harder for people to distinguish between the neomedieval fantasy stuff that Enya, Akiko Shikata and their like do, and proper classical-sounding stuff, and things that really have an ethnic flair, as opposed to being syncretic. Safe to say I'm not *strictly* any of the above, I blend my genres together -- and it's not only hard for people to find me, it's also hard for me to place my music in a genre that people can most relate to.

Classical does have sub genres, kind of. For instance "marches" were a popular style for composers to write for a while. It's not quite the same but it Serves a similar purpose, as does where and when the piece was written.

[Troisnyx]

At 5/16/18 03:29 PM, IndustryStandard wrote:

At 5/14/18 05:53 AM, Troisnyx wrote: I don't know for sure. I lean predominantly towards classical, world, jazz, synthwave, ambient -- and most of these have subgenres, but NOT classical and world. Jazz has loads of divisions.

Classical and world not having divisions only makes it harder for people to distinguish between the neomedieval fantasy stuff that Enya, Akiko Shikata and their like do, and proper classical-sounding stuff, and things that really have an ethnic flair, as opposed to being syncretic. Safe to say I'm not *strictly* any of the above, I blend my genres together -- and it's not only hard for people to find me, it's also hard for me to place my music in a genre that people can most relate to.

Classical does have sub genres, kind of. For instance "marches" were a popular style for composers to write for a while. It's not quite the same but it Serves a similar purpose, as does where and when the piece was written.

Yeah, but we're talking about Newgrounds here. Outside of here classical has various subgenres; I should know, I'm classically trained ffs. Sonatas, waltzes, symphonies, concertos, marches, oratorios, sacred music, among a fair number of other things. But on Newgrounds? Oh great, let's lump them into the same parent category that everyone will take ages to find specific things! Granted, popularity may have something to do with it but the point still stands.

When we speak of subgenres we often speak in the way of what affects us immediately, because most of us are trying to get feelers out, get our feet in the door.

[Sequenced]

no. I love sub genres, especially when I pick out tracks for a DJ gig. If I'm playing an underground deep house set, I don't want a track to be accidentally shit dubstep and just ruin the floor and vibe.

[IndustryStandard]

At 5/16/18 07:57 PM, Sequenced wrote: no. I love sub genres, especially when I pick out tracks for a DJ gig. If I'm playing an underground deep house set, I don't want a track to be accidentally shit dubstep and just ruin the floor and vibe.

That makes sense in a professional setting, but the question is whether or not sub genres make it harder to discover new music, not whether they're objectively useful or not. But what about this: If you made a playlist by just listening to a bunch of songs and feeling out the vibe - regardless of genre, like you just put every song you've ever had on shuffle - and looked at the genres and sub genres afterwards, do you think you might end up with a few surprisingly good "shit dubstep" songs or maybe another sub genre you wouldn't normally expect?

[IndustryStandard]

At 5/16/18 04:38 PM, Troisnyx wrote:

At 5/16/18 03:29 PM, IndustryStandard wrote:

At 5/14/18 05:53 AM, Troisnyx wrote: I don't know for sure. I lean predominantly towards classical, world, jazz, synthwave, ambient -- and most of these have subgenres, but NOT classical and world. Jazz has loads of divisions.

Classical and world not having divisions only makes it harder for people to distinguish between the neomedieval fantasy stuff that Enya, Akiko Shikata and their like do, and proper classical-sounding stuff, and things that really have an ethnic flair, as opposed to being syncretic. Safe to say I'm not *strictly* any of the above, I blend my genres together -- and it's not only hard for people to find me, it's also hard for me to place my music in a genre that people can most relate to.

Classical does have sub genres, kind of. For instance "marches" were a popular style for composers to write for a while. It's not quite the same but it Serves a similar purpose, as does where and when the piece was written.

Yeah, but we're talking about Newgrounds here. Outside of here classical has various subgenres; I should know, I'm classically trained ffs. Sonatas, waltzes, symphonies, concertos, marches, oratorios, sacred music, among a fair number of other things. But on Newgrounds? Oh great, let's lump them into the same parent category that everyone will take ages to find specific things! Granted, popularity may have something to do with it but the point still stands.

When we speak of subgenres we often speak in the way of what affects us immediately, because most of us are trying to get feelers out, get our feet in the door.

The upside to not having a list of sub genres for classical though is that you can just leave that vague and put more specific descriptors in the tags and the short description. People can then just search for the actual classical sub genres or other terminology, which is less accurate i guess but if you're looking for something new, imperfect terminology can help find a wide range of things, some of which you might not have thought to look for. I kind of wish the electronic sub genres were more like this, but that probably has something to do with the fact I'm still pretty unfamiliar with the genre's terminology.

[Sequenced]

At 5/21/18 02:12 PM, IndustryStandard wrote:

At 5/16/18 07:57 PM, Sequenced wrote: no. I love sub genres, especially when I pick out tracks for a DJ gig. If I'm playing an underground deep house set, I don't want a track to be accidentally shit dubstep and just ruin the floor and vibe.

you just put every song you've ever had on shuffle - and looked at the genres and sub genres afterwards, do you think you might end up with a few surprisingly good "shit dubstep" songs or maybe another sub genre you wouldn't normally expect?

nope. if I wanted to look for good dubstep I already know where to look. minimal dub is the fuckin bomb. still wouldn't play it in a house set though.

[IndustryStandard]

At 5/21/18 11:21 PM, Sequenced wrote:

At 5/21/18 02:12 PM, IndustryStandard wrote:

At 5/16/18 07:57 PM, Sequenced wrote: no. I love sub genres, especially when I pick out tracks for a DJ gig. If I'm playing an underground deep house set, I don't want a track to be accidentally shit dubstep and just ruin the floor and vibe.

you just put every song you've ever had on shuffle - and looked at the genres and sub genres afterwards, do you think you might end up with a few surprisingly good "shit dubstep" songs or maybe another sub genre you wouldn't normally expect?

nope. if I wanted to look for good dubstep I already know where to look. minimal dub is the fuckin bomb. still wouldn't play it in a house set though.

I think you're still missing the point. If you're looking for a specific sub genres, obviously you're going to search wherever it is you normally find good music in that sub genre. What I'm saying is, if you're looking for something new - as in, something that you wouldn't expect to hear, not something you already know how to find - do you think that would be easier with less restrictive/no sub genres. It's not about whether sub genres are useful or even whether you like them or not, the question is do they have drawbacks despite their usefulness.