I just saw this on my local news

Seeing as I'm somebody who is on the other side of the spectrum, I'm curious to know why you feel the way you do. I don't understand why you feel the way you do and recognize this is a misgiving on my part. I'd be grateful if you helped me understand.

Thanks,
Blud

I got banned from the NG chat (not forums) for posting swastikas.
It doesn't seem to be a temporary ban either… which sucks...

Violence should never be encouraged in this world, it flourishes anyway. How about a first person hand shaker instead of shooter or something something. Well, just a thought :)

Thank you, Tom. You still have a heart.

First of all I wold love to say I respect and love Newgrounds a lot for it's censorship policy. Big kudos to you, Tom. Newgrounds is still the ONLY uncensored place on the Internet. It's a FREE PLACE- it's what the Internet used to be and what the Internet used to stand for. Look at big websites like Youtube run by big companies. Do they care about ART and artist creating ART- no they don't. Newgrounds does. To me the Internet was always about freedom. It's a wild place and a crazy place full of stuff you probably don't want to see but that's what life is like. There are things your children probably shouldn't see but then most of the Internet isn't for children. You can't close your eyes from reality. What I am saying here:

Look at famous NG artist submitting their stuff to Youtube. Youtube hardly APPROVES. Some people get away with swearing and other stuff because they are BIG artists (other artist will get flagged and deleted). Look at that British lad Harry Partridge: He has to censor his boobs in his animations. Silly.
I am still impressed how Marc M. got away with some of his stuff on Youtube but I think a bunch of stuff already got deleted and he moved to vimeo now. Also the entire music copyright thing is retarded. I blame record labels here.
I have already seen a lot of great fan made music videos with music by artists I had never ever heard of- I've discovered some of my FAVOURITE bands because of music used in Newgrounds animations (Boards of Canada when I saw my first Salad Fingers just to name one).

So artists need freedom. Artists should be allowed to express themselves. They should only think of their art and their project and shouldn't have to ask themselves all the time "hm does this go too far- would this offend people?"
The moment you start to censor yourself in your brain you have already lost.

I hadn't seen the game you have mentioned so I don't know how bad it was. This situation is really a complicated one. I think I agree with your decision but I am not 100% sure about this. There is no black and white here and no easy answer.

Like I've said artists should be allowed to do whatever they want and Newgrounds is the only platform on the Internet that lets you do whatever you want. You can get away with anything on Newgrounds- if you can't do it on Newgrounds what other site can you turn to? I don't know any unless you have your own page.

Also Newgrounds has a rating system so I believe this game was for ADULTS ONLY- Adults should be allowed to see whatever they want even though some disagree with it.

But the parents contacted you. They have lost something. They have lost their kids and kindly asked you to remove it. Now you aren't a dick, you have manners and you are showing some respect. Who would go to parents that got their kids killed and tell them: "You know what- fuck you. Freedom of speech, ever heard of it? Sorry for your loss but we have a zero censorship policy on here." This would have probably been the right thing to say but who could do such a thing? It's just tactless and no easy situation you were put in here. So yes I can fully understand your decision here, Tom.

I see all these trolls shoving their ePeens in everyone's faces. THAT is what kills a community, just sayin.

Tom did what he felt needed to be done and he even made public mention about it due to the severity of his decision. Respect the man for at least owning up to it.

I mean he could have just deleted it and banned the guy. Instead, he told us why and has even elaborated further on the subject. You are acting as if Tom is turning into some censorship Nazi or something. He's doing what anyone else would do in his situation.

I hate talking to people I know, if I was to start getting contacted by media I'd shit myself. He already said that he deals with media inquiries all the time over this shit, how many of us can honestly say that we've been in that situation? I sure can't, and I am thankful for that.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the removal of the content, fuck I've never even seen it. I've never been too into that stuff, I came here back when sprite movies were really fucking popular. I just say that I respect the decision made by Tom. NG has been here for a long time, that isn't an easy feat to accomplish.

People are taking a more sensitive stance towards media, it's just a fact of life. Social media goes a long way towards making or breaking someone/something.

This isn't 1999 anymore and it hasn't been for a long time.

At 11/18/13 12:11 PM, TomFulp wrote:

At 11/18/13 12:09 PM, Manly-Chicken wrote: Never played it.
I feel horrible for asking, but could I get an external link just to see what the game was like/if it was worth being censored?

PiGPEN has a website so he could post it there. Rather than soak up a ton of attention and traffic before removing it, I opted to just remove it.

Oh PiGPEN did it. That guy is a complete shithead and ended up blocking me in the end. He is a wonderful example of how retarded racists are. He mostly gave me shit like "Yeh thats what all Brits are like" / "It's so typical for a Brit to say that" and so on- in the end I've said "Dude I am actually Swedish" so he would pull the Sweden card on me and always claim that all my actions are super Swedish and started being racist towards Sweden (After he had been racist towards England). In the end I've admitted that I am neither from England nor from Sweden and that he is a stupid racist just trying to talk shit about a country someone is from (or the country he believes someone is from). Also that shooting was ages ago: Why make a game about it now?

I hope all these problems get solved.

I did a bit of research... Turns out the maker of this game is really heartless and a complete dick. He has almost no compassion for the victims of the massacre that happened and no compassion for the parents! Why do so many people seem not to give a fuck on this forum is one thing but this guy made fun of the massacres by making these games and them defended himself by saying "Promoting gun awareness!" That is low and selfish. Whomever really believes that these games are "Promoting gun awareness" really either needs to get their head out of the sand or get a reality check.
This game does as much gun promotion as Call of Duty or Halo. Even Doom... I'm not hating on these games... not at all. My partner plays Halo and Doom and I find myself watching him and rooting for him. The main difference between this certain game, and the franchise games are really simple. They were not based on someone killing so many CHILDREN. That is just wrong in so many levels...

You could read about this guy here...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510991/Ryan-Jake-Lambourn-Sandy-Hook-video-game-Virginia-Tech-Rampage.html

His V-Tech games was actually named number four on gameradar's most evil games....

http://www.gamesradar.com/the-top-7-most-evil-games/?page=4

i played that game and is was made by a sadistic piece of fucking shit dick

At 11/21/13 06:59 PM, yolojoe wrote: i played that game and is was made by a sadistic piece of fucking shit dick

Well. that was rude.

Honestly, I didn't think there's much of an issue here, so I guess I say my two cents and leave it at that.

Tom should be noted for doing a few things here. For starters, he pulled a game, (again, no biggy) and he did so because he thought of respecting those who have just been through a tragedy. Another, he owned up to doing so with this news event. He didn't hide the fact that he did this, he didn't lie about it, he OWNED UP TO IT. He even respectfully gave the game in question credit for it's message. It's not as if he said, bla bla bla, bad game, bla bla bla, piece of crud, bla bla bla!!! So I give him credit for being respectful.

It's also noteworthy, that Tom doesn't do this on a daily basis, and he's had plenty of reasons to. He's even had sponsors leave him for the content that's been posted, some disgusting, or grotesque bile that should never be seen by the naked eye are posted and defended here. Honestly, if he say's he's pulling something, trust him, it's something that may just be worth pulling. I'm not defending him, or arguing his case, I'm just... well... giving my two cents, which is worth just that, two cents.

I was personally contacted by Sandy Hook parents and they expressed their understanding of what the game was attempting to communicate

didn't you have the same problem with pico's school?

@ WeaseleX
I wish I thumbs up or comment or something! A lot of people don't seem to get that or want to get it but put the blame on him saying he was wrong... I don't understand why they would say that or where they would get the assumption that Newgrounds will change completely afterwards. It's not logical... oh well...

I meant I wish I could thumbs up your comment or something! .... Sorry I'm not used to the forums just yet!

At 11/18/13 11:58 AM, TomFulp wrote: Over the years, a number of highly offensive games and movies have been published on Newgrounds and despite the hatemail and being dropped by just about every ad company in existence, we held firm on a policy of anti-censorship. Today, however, I pulled a reversal on that policy and maybe it was a huge mistake or maybe it was the right thing to do, I'm sure there will be a variety of opinions on the matter.

It's not like we don't already slip on the censorship policy. We've removed racist and homophobic stuff (moreso than YouTube I would say) and we remove shovelware games built off common templates with zero passion.

This game, however, had a certain level of artfulness and craftsmanship to it. There was a visual and technical quality that revealed a serious level of effort and passion. It also had a political message I personally agree with; a statement on gun control and the problem of gun violence in the US. It attempted to demonstrate how things can play out differently with changes in our gun laws. It made you feel and it made you think.

It did so, however, in the context of the Sandy Hook massacre, recreating the event and putting you in the role of the shooter.

Newgrounds has faced harsh criticism in the past for standing firm on not censoring distasteful material, namely games about school shootings. All I can say is that this game took things to a new level in terms of the age of the victims and the realism of the terror they faced on that day.

I was personally contacted by Sandy Hook parents and they expressed their understanding of what the game was attempting to communicate, but also expressed the sadness and horror it made them feel, and their desire to have it removed. Today I'm choosing respect for the Sandy Hook parents over respect for NG's censorship policies.

Either decision on this matter puts a knot in my stomach. I'm of course interested in hearing thoughts on the matter, especially from artists on the site.

---

This is my first post on NG, so I figured I would try and make sure that I don't mess something up. I agree that in the way of taste, removing the game was the best move. In the way of censorship, I believe that picking and choosing what is acceptable can be a slippery slope. This is not a democracy, seeing as it is a privately owned website, so you can pick and choose what you want to remove. It seemed like a tough decision, and the way you went about it was pretty good.

-Trey

This is definitely a tough one. Though I have not played the game I believe you are being truthful in the fact the game was meant to educate not offend. I am in two minds about this. While I can understand why you would take it down I think it is important to keep a game such as this up on the site if it has a very important life lesson to teach. I am by no means a gorefiend but I think we cant cover everything in cottonballs and ignore it. I would actually say it is a good thing this game is shocking so it can teach others a lesson and hopefully aid in reducing the numbers of such horrible events.

There's nothing to say that hasn't already been said.

I don't know what he was thinking while creating or how he had the guts to click the submit button, but maybe he had a positive intention. Maybe he had a negative intention, I dont know..

I do know that you know how to run one hell of a site, and decisions like these are verry risky but you have enogh supporters ( Includeing me and everyone else ) to back you up.

At 11/21/13 06:57 PM, iceakito wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510991/Ryan-Jake-Lambourn-Sandy-Hook-video-game-Virginia-Tech-Rampage.html

His V-Tech games was actually named number four on gameradar's most evil games....

http://www.gamesradar.com/the-top-7-most-evil-games/?page=4

PiG's not a bad guy when you get to know him a little. Don't trust everything the Daily Mail tells you bro, they're notorious for being overly sensationalist.

V Tech Rampage was pretty awful though haha

Having read and skimmed through the entire thread, the only thing I feel that I can contribute is the idea that "Censorship" was the wrong title for this thread, because it's full of idiots who just don't get what is really going on. I mean, Jesus fucking Christ, it's been said ad nauseum why the damn game was removed and people go on anyway about "tom this" and "oppressive that".

Tom I feel this is just a public relations stunt just to save your own ass and you're a hypocrite because you did this years in ago in 1999 with Pico's School . The Foundation of that game and the technical achievements with such a early version of Micromedia flash was amazing for that time despite the graphic content of the game.

If you really feel this way maybe the NGA was right and the website should be Banned or why stop at that flash maybe all the offensive content like the 9/11 flashes they are just as offensive? Or how about the other school shooting flash games and movies like Virginia tech and Columbine High School massacre

I just find it really fucking hypocritical to have a entire day of a character "Pico" Who is celebrated for killing kids in a school and have other authors and animators create spin off's and semi sequels and put him on a pedestal but you decide to remove others who you fucking enabled to make games like the sandy hook shooting video game and kindergarten killer.

I'm a parent just like them and you and I fear something might happen to my daughter but I value freedom of speech and freedom or press. I have family in Connecticut and a cousin who went to that school but graduated. I also volunteered as a afterschool security guard at a school in my county after sandy hook shooting.

Don't fucking act like you're doing any one favors when you still have a game like Pico's school which is the original School shooting game still up.

Removing games is just outrageous! Censorship is stupid and their should be no reason to censor things. This was a site for people to post funny, racist, nudity etc. and then thanks to some idiots in Connecticut we now have to censor school shooting games. What's next? Censor games with blood? Look at what all these kindergartens today and little 10 year olds get away with. With their cursing and breaking expensive materials without even thinking of how bad it is. And we have to protect these kids just because of their silly age. Like Parlux said you are a hypocrite and in my opinion hypocrites are some of the worst people in this earth when they want you to do something they don't do themselves.

At 11/21/13 11:47 AM, tjardo wrote:

At 11/18/13 12:18 PM, thekillzar wrote: I think you did the right thing. There was an incident like this years ago where some guy made an RPG based off of the Columbine High school massacre and generated a ton of controversy because people couldn't see the point it was trying to make (and also because they were justifiably upset over it). It attempted to portray the killers in a new light by getting players to see it from their perspective, but that's really tough to look at when some of the audience were personally affected by the people responsible for the tragedy.

Artistic integrity is not enough to protect the game from being taken down. It's something a little too touchy since the victims in this event were very young children. It doesn't matter how you can choose to see it, it's sad and extremely inappropriate. There's no trying to see it from the killer's view. They were kids, they didn't deserve to die.

That's how I think about it, so I'm not sure what the other perspective on it looks like. I support your decision Tom.

I haven't played it, but I honestly don't see the point of trying to get empathy for mass murderers. Most criminals act wrongly due to certain things that happened to them, but mass murderers are by definition out of their minds and evil. I can't put it any differently.

I see your point, but there are a lot of different points of view. I don't want to argue over the basis of morality and who's right and who's wrong. Games like this are an attempt to get an audience to perceive something differently, but it hardly never works in the way the game designer or artist intended for it to be. Truthfully, I don't think it ever will.

At 11/21/13 08:16 PM, Vielle:

Hey yo Vielle. I aint blaming the kids or the parents. The kids are the victims and the parents are the victims that are in pain and grief so I understand why would they take it down.

My issue is with the scumbag vultures called the media exploiting them and with all that rage and anger the media always needs a patsy and a finger to blame which is us the content creators/newgrounds

My biggest issue is tom your shit stinks just as much as the creator at that flash and it's just as much as your fault to enable people to do it and punish them when you did over ten years ago and celebrate pico every year for killing kids.

At 11/21/13 08:26 PM, Parlux wrote: At 11/21/13 08:16 PM, Vielle:

My biggest issue is tom your shit stinks just as much as the creator at that flash and it's just as much as your fault to enable people to do it and punish them when you did over ten years ago and celebrate pico every year for killing kids.

really dude.

At 11/21/13 08:30 PM, Pjorg wrote:

At 11/21/13 08:26 PM, Parlux wrote:

My biggest issue is tom your shit stinks just as much as the creator at that flash and it's just as much as your fault to enable people to do it and punish them when you did over ten years ago and celebrate pico every year for killing kids.

You know Pico isn't a real guy, right? Unlike sandy hook, the events depicted in that game never actually happened. So yeah, they're kinda different.

Yes I know Pico isn't real and It ain't different because Kindergarten killer is fictional content also and was taken down.

Fiction or Non fiction doesn't make a bit of difference because it's the same subject. There is alot of sick shit this site built it self upon that isn't just children being murdered. Mass murder, genocide, suicide, animal abuse, drug use and blasphemy this is all good Tom to create but when some else creates it and uploads in his websites he deletes that content but doesn't address his own shit.

Yeah well thats all good right?

Good thing you guys removed it- I see its making the alternative news rounds

http://www.infowars.com/sick-sandy-hook-game-lets-you-shoot-kids-then-preaches-on-gun-control/

that woulda been terrible for NG if you hosted that

Well I went out and actually found this "game" today - to all you fuck faces and trolls trying to compare THIS to Pico's School, it is just fucking insane - three things
1 - Yeah Pico's school was I believe based on Columbine but it is from Pico's point of view and Pico is the "Hero" (The Goths were the ones who shot up the school, and that's who you were trying to stop) - In this you play the roll of the killer / after you kill your mom at point plank range you start shooting random kids and teachers, accompanied by "historical" facts after you kill yourself (Historical Facts as in: You killed 45/50 - The Real Shooting Was 26 killed)
2 - P'sS was really cartoony - like haha gritty cartoony and ridiculous at points - This shit was dark... extremely dark, everything from the colors used, to the sound, and the movements - all of the people are faceless and completely blacked out
3 - P'sS and a few other "games" + "art" that were about the same stuff never said exactly what they were about (but you could make assumptions) - This just comes right out and says it right in the title... guess what I'm trying to get at is THIS SHIT WAS/IS REAL
If you want to learn about it then go read a Wiki page or watch the History channel - you don't play a fucking game
I sand by what I said before and I'll gladly stand with Tom on this and his decision

At 11/21/13 08:58 PM, KingBobThe4th wrote:

Trolls? Are we trying to upset people or cause humerous reactions to stir up? No we are not. This is related to Pico School in the matter that it is a school and you are going around shooting people. I would consider Tom a hypocrite and that he should stop censoring stuff. Blame the media because all they care about is ratings and money. That's it. They need stories to report because they have to report something it is their job to go around looking up stuff and reporting whatever they find. So why should we do something just because of some parents in Connecticut or the stupid media want us to remove the game? It is just a game and it won't encourage shootings. Just a reenactment or recreation of the event.