Power of Four?

[TomFulp]

Last year when we did Power of Three, I expected that by this time we might have the Writing Portal and would be ready to try Power of Four, with writers on the teams.

It's a year later and we don't have the Writing Portal yet and a lot of the collaborative tools intended for these events are still in a holding pattern until the redesign launches. Soooo I'm not completely sure how I want to handle the event this summer and whether it will be another Power of Three or a Power of Four... But I thought I would make this thread for some general brainstorming.

So first question... Do a lot of the writers around here have an interest in writing for games? The amount of involvement may vary from game to game and would likely depend on what your expertise are. For example I could see entire game concepts and gameplay mechanics coming from written game design docs, but I can also see games where the design is more in the hands of the programmer and artist, while the details of the story are in the hands of a writer. For example Programmer A has a great RPG engine he's been working on, but a writer could fill in all the game dialogue and interactions between characters, to make it all more interesting.

Second question... Would you want to have a thread like this where you just dump out your ideas to the public in order to get noticed, or would you prefer to team up directly with people you like and keep all that info private, to be revealed with the game? Basically you would have to pitch your expertise to people directly, so the team building process would require a lot of pro-activity on your part and you would have to be able to sell yourself well.

If anyone here has game writing experience or links to game writing resources, this would be a good time to discuss that sort of thing as well, so people can get a better idea of what they are getting into.

[Fro]

I would love to have it has the Power of Four and be able to write for games. As for the other thing I think perhaps people should be able to advertise their material here if they don't know anybody to work with, but if they can they can keep it private. Let it be up to the person.

Just to advertise myself a little bit I can voice act and write both serious action type games on top of funny comedy games. I myself have about 60 flash submissions on the site so if you want to see some writing/voice acting qualifications then you can check out some of my newer stuff. :)

[Shyheart]

I would love to see something like this go down, if only to get artists and programmers more willing to collaborate with writers. So far there have been very few animators who have been looking for writers and I don't think that any of the partnerships have been successful. It's a bit disconcerting.

I for one would like to see a thread like this where general discussion could take place for the contest. I for one would love to write for a game if anyone would give me a chance.

So yeah, good luck to all of you guys I guess.

[WritersBlock]

To me, game writing is something that is more necessary with large games that rely on details such as character, setting and plot to bring the game to life. I find that most standard online games can coast by on a novel (pun not intended) idea, or fragments of dialogue, or fragments of this or that, which I assume game designers/programmers/artists are usually capable of handling.

If you were to implement a game competition requiring the use of a writer as part of the team, I would think their input would have to be built upon something more significant than filling in dialogue boxes or brainstorming ideas for the artists/programmers to flesh upon. Maybe centering the competition around a narrative style gameplay. I have noticed some games on here that focus around telling a story that, while they usually don't have as much of a replayability factor as some other games, they are more involving, and certainly through the story are more interesting and unique.

The idea that I've got conjured in my mind is something along the lines of this game:

• 

  The Company of Myself

  by FreeAsANerd

  The Company of Myself is a story about a hermit.

  Game

  1,315,794 Views

  (Everyone)

I think you could get some really artistic and interesting results from pushing the writerly aspects of game design, such that there are underlying themes going on in the game, there is the potential to say something through the subtleties of storytelling. If you ask me, narrative gameplay is the way to go.

[sinfulwolf]

It sounds like a few excellent ideas. I would love to attempt some writing for a game, though I've not yet been able to do so, so I have no credits for reference.

A power of four competition however, with an emphasis on story, dialogue or character could be rather interesting, especially to see how well the various portions come together.

[munio]

i will definetly be in, however not every game wants an extensive story line programmers might ask writers to write "a simple background thing" it highly depens on what the programmers has prepared so far

Also credentials, i'm only speaking for myself here but i have not co-authored any flash which means that programmers are only going to choose me based on what they say of my writing in terms of poems and stories, so they don't know anything about my gamewriting skills.

Also usually their is an abudance of writers, which can give trouble forming groups, potential masterpieces don't get picked because writers with better contacts are favoured over new guys/

On the private v public forum thing i would go for private; yes public allows for more publicity and the NG community can make some good suggestions but i would sort of spoil the suprise and i can imagine that people want to get some work done rather then having all sorts of people posting crazy comments all the time

[Version2]

I'm all for this, but I'm not sure how well it would go over. Nobody wants just an idea man.

For this to work, the writer would need to come up with an amazing design document, that goes down the list and gives descriptions for every level, item, special ability, and character in the game. The trick here is, writing descriptions that are going to be useful to graphic designer, programmer, and sound engineer alike. It would have to be much MUCH more than simply filling in the talk bubbles in an rpg. Really, the story is only going to be one small part of the overall doc anyway.

I also see the writer turning brainstorming sessions into coherent, easily understandable thought flows. After a good B.S., a writer could toss out all the bad ideas, and write out the good ideas into a doc update, then distribute them to the rest of the team.

I think we need a thread to hook up writers with programmers and artists. I don't think the people in this community are used to working with writers yet. But at the same time, I would definitely want to keep any docs I write private, and only post the general concept, and maybe a snippet, like a character description when I want to advertise it.

Of course, I would also like to hear from artists and programmers what exactly they would want in a design document. I want to know what would help them the most to make their parts.

Writers who can also voice act are going to have such an advantage here! Too bad I code...

[Laos101]

I'd love to collaborate.

And mix it up, allow people to pitch but also acknowledge who reveal their work to the public

[The-Great-One]

At 5/17/10 11:18 AM, TomFulp wrote: So first question... Do a lot of the writers around here have an interest in writing for games? The amount of involvement may vary from game to game and would likely depend on what your expertise are. For example I could see entire game concepts and gameplay mechanics coming from written game design docs, but I can also see games where the design is more in the hands of the programmer and artist, while the details of the story are in the hands of a writer. For example Programmer A has a great RPG engine he's been working on, but a writer could fill in all the game dialogue and interactions between characters, to make it all more interesting.

Well from the way you described it, you could have a writer no matter what. Whether it be on game design and/or storyline. I mean if I wrote a story for an adventure game, chances are I would probably have an idea on the mechanics behind the game as well, especially if it were a point-and-click adventure game.

Second question... Would you want to have a thread like this where you just dump out your ideas to the public in order to get noticed, or would you prefer to team up directly with people you like and keep all that info private, to be revealed with the game? Basically you would have to pitch your expertise to people directly, so the team building process would require a lot of pro-activity on your part and you would have to be able to sell yourself well.

I would prefer teaming up with someone else and keeping things more private. Sure it takes more work that way, but in the end it works out well. I guess you could have a way for people to dump their ideas for others to see so people who don't know where to look have a place to look. Everybody needs something and requests are easy to make... I'm surprised with all of the writers, musicians, and artists here that there isn't a Request Forum in particular for these kinds of things.

I mean the writing forum works for posting stories and poems, the art forum works for posting artwork, and the audio forum works for posting songs, but you can't really ask for anything in those forums because it's against the forum rules (correct me if I'm wrong).

If anyone here has game writing experience or links to game writing resources, this would be a good time to discuss that sort of thing as well, so people can get a better idea of what they are getting into.

Well I did write the questions for the game Our Newgrounds quiz, but that's just a small bit of work. Although the writer writes it, the writer also wants it to turn out well. That's why I always ask to see the project so I can give my thoughts on it and what needs to be changed or improved.

• 

  Our Newgrounds quiz

  by MarioFlashMovies

  Yes! Our second work togeter and this time - Newgrounds is in Flash!

  Game

  11,942 Views

  (Ages 13+)

[TrevorW]

To throw an apposing opinion into the mix: I for one feel that the need for a writer is nonexistent. If anything such a task should/would be far back on the need-to-do list of the writer, in my opinion. A writer does not make a name out of doing minor scripting details seconded to some lack luster cluster fuck of gore, cock jokes, and mindless click and press (which is what this is bound to be). I just don't see it worth the writers time to play glue in the holes. Hell most of the artists probably have little to no interest in a good script anyways (considering 99.99999% of NG has shitty at best scripts).

Short opposing blurb, feel free to eat my soul.

[zachdamacman]

At 5/17/10 10:16 PM, TrevorW wrote: To throw an apposing opinion into the mix:

Short opposing blurb, feel free to eat my soul.

Trev has a point, but still, I wouldn't mind writing for a game.

[The-Great-One]

At 5/17/10 10:16 PM, TrevorW wrote: Short opposing blurb, feel free to eat my soul.

I don't know. My short story was turned into a flash movie. Everyone who has reviewed it seemed to like it.

• Unpublished Submission

[Gustavos]

I never participated in Power of Three. There was no team in need of an animator, at least not one as bad as I was. At the time, I thought it was kind of pointless to have a spot for a musician. That the game's greatness comes from the animator and the programmer, and their ability to find music on their own. To tell the truth, I don't see the writer as any more important than the musician, but then I remember what it is like to be a Newgrounder without access to Flash or any audio mixing skill. The people who can enjoy this site, but can't contribute in any way. Surely they have gotten ideas of their own that they'd like to see made? Now they have that chance.

Yes, Power of Four has my vote. The Literature Portal coming out before the year is over also has my vote.

As a lover of Flash collaboration, when strangers come together to produce something massive, something beautiful, I greatly supported the idea. Power of Three had great potential, but it's turn out was disappointing. So many teams had given up thanks to poor communication and people skills. I hope that this year can change this somehow.

[Shyheart]

At 5/17/10 10:16 PM, TrevorW wrote: To throw an apposing opinion into the mix: I for one feel that the need for a writer is nonexistent. If anything such a task should/would be far back on the need-to-do list of the writer, in my opinion. A writer does not make a name out of doing minor scripting details seconded to some lack luster cluster fuck of gore, cock jokes, and mindless click and press (which is what this is bound to be). I just don't see it worth the writers time to play glue in the holes. Hell most of the artists probably have little to no interest in a good script anyways (considering 99.99999% of NG has shitty at best scripts).

You know, I could pick this apart alot, but I don't have to. This is literally you just being a pessimistic douche.

And incidentally, there are games that do have a decent amount of story. While yeah, it can be glue in the holes that's only for shitty games. Take a look at Dadgame, or Ronin. Great games, both with a fair amount of story.

That said, a game with a great story can easily become twice as memorable just by having likeable characters and a relatable or plain entertaining plot. To be honest it's a shame that people like you are assholes and consider it an afterthought.

[Version2]

At 5/17/10 08:47 PM, The-Great-One wrote:
I would prefer teaming up with someone else and keeping things more private. Sure it takes more work that way, but in the end it works out well.

I have to be honest, I'm surprised that so many people want to keep this private. Look around, this forum has been nearly dead for the past couple of weeks.

You've also got to remember that most of the writers here don't have flash submissions of their own, and that it's hard to get other people on board if you yourself don't have any experience.

Personally I'm not to fond of having an idea dump thread. There's already way to many of those. I would much rather see just an advertising thread where writers can go to say "I'm available," with links to previous work and posts, or "I have something written" with a link to a blog post pitch.

But I do like your idea of a request thread. Maybe something like the art forum has. It would at the very least let us know how many people out there actually want to have writers involved.

[munio]

perhaps we can make categories in this power of four thing
script driven stories (extensive rpg's etc...) where the writer is a big part
Minor background stories ( etc the rest) where the writer only has an small part

[Evark]

That would be awesome. I think it would make sense for writers to have an extensive role in drafting the game's mechanics on paper as well. The idea of drafting up a plot and tightly integrating it with gameplay features excites me.

[munio]

i had another idea, the goal of this power of four thing is to get more appreciation/ attention to writing (and the writing forum) Perhaps you could add an extra category for the tank awards : best writer
judging would be based on both moviescripts and MWC entries and poems

[PinballWizard976]

I've been against the writing portal for a while now. I posted like, all the characters you can get in a post on this thread about why I wouldn't want it. It's the one that starts off saying "dude, ass-crumb, you're an asshole" or whatever. Yeah, pointless drama, but it goes into why I would rather have a writing forum instead of a writing portal. I just feel like a community wouldn't form as easy as it has here on the forum. I just have the feeling like at least on the forum, you're guaranteed views and at least a few reviews, whereas on portals, you're lucky to get one or two saying "this was really good" or whatnot. I also hate the idea of writing for flash stories. I just really don't see that as my kind of thing.

[TrevorW]

At 5/20/10 06:31 PM, PinballWizard976 wrote: I've been against the writing portal for a while now.

I'm actually starting to agree. I have been really keeping my work from here all together too. I don't know what I think of online writing areas anymore...

[Dubbi]

At 5/20/10 06:48 PM, TrevorW wrote:

At 5/20/10 06:31 PM, PinballWizard976 wrote: I've been against the writing portal for a while now.

I'm actually starting to agree. I have been really keeping my work from here all together too. I don't know what I think of online writing areas anymore...

There is nothing wrong with a writing portal...

[Gustavos]

At 5/20/10 07:29 PM, Dubbi wrote:
There is nothing wrong with a writing portal...

There shouldn't be a Featured Stories section on the front page, but there is indeed no reason for there to not be a Literature Portal. As long as it is set up differently than the Art Portal. You can't even favorite an Art submission unless the creator has been scouted, which ends up never happening most of the time. I favorite stuff because I know I'd like to see them in the future. And I can't quite do that unless I remember the URL. I don't even think you can search un-scouted artists in that portal.

What would I want in the Lit portal? Well, aside from the banishment of the "scouting" crap, I'd like a set of genres to put the stories into. Horror, action, narrative (a simple story being told), poem, adult-rated, and Other for a writer's list of creative passages about life. With a genre selection, people can read what they want to read, instead of skimming a wall of text to realize they wasted 15 minutes of their time. Scoring and reviewing systems are greatly encouraged, but if a story is rated by one individual, people will have a first impression on it based on that score. If I check out a story with a score of 2.00, I'll think that the story isn't that great before even reading. So perhaps just have a place to review, and not to vote. We've already ran out of Pico characters to put on those numbers anyway.

[Shyheart]

At 5/20/10 08:05 PM, Gustavos wrote:

At 5/20/10 07:29 PM, Dubbi wrote:
There is nothing wrong with a writing portal...

We've already ran out of Pico characters to put on those numbers anyway.

What about Mr. Flacit? C'mon, a teacher would be great for the writing portal voting.

I think the easiest way to make it so you aren't affected by a few people's opinions is to just make the voting hidden, atleast for a short period of time.

And as for the whole Writing Portal discussion- why are we having this again? This topic is about a contest. Not a writing portal.

[sinfulwolf]

At 5/20/10 09:06 PM, Ass-Crumb wrote:

At 5/20/10 08:05 PM, Gustavos wrote:

At 5/20/10 07:29 PM, Dubbi wrote:
There is nothing wrong with a writing portal...

We've already ran out of Pico characters to put on those numbers anyway.

What about Mr. Flacit? C'mon, a teacher would be great for the writing portal voting.

What about non-pico characters like Hank?

But yeah... back to the conversation at hand.

[TrevorW]

At 5/20/10 09:06 PM, Ass-Crumb wrote:

And as for the whole Writing Portal discussion- why are we having this again? This topic is about a contest. Not a writing portal.

Actually you can exclude yourself from the discussion.

Evolution of conversations is an interesting thing.

[Omnifarm]

yes, i think there should be a Power of Four contest, games a much greater with a writer instead of having all of that work fall to the programmer(or the other members of the collaboration).

I vote for private

[Shyheart]

At 5/20/10 11:01 PM, TrevorW wrote: Actually you can exclude yourself from the discussion.

Evolution of conversations is an interesting thing.

No, really, you should exclude yourself from this topic, you've done practically nothing to contribute, unless you call being a dick and saying 99% of flash here is shit or side tracking everyone.

It's not evolution of conversation, stop sugarcoating it. You're just straying off topic. You just want an excuse to bitch about the idea of a literature portal some more. There are other places to do that, try the lounge or making a new thread. This thread is for discussion of a potential contest. Keep it that way.

[DM692]

I personally think that having a writer included on each team would be a great idea, it would give writers a chance to exhibit their abilities, and gain a little renown outside of the Writing forum.

[Jercurpac]

At 5/17/10 10:16 PM, TrevorW wrote: A writer does not make a name out of doing minor scripting details seconded to some lack luster cluster fuck of gore, cock jokes, and mindless click and press (which is what this is bound to be). I just don't see it worth the writers time to play glue in the holes.

I think it could be a fantastic learning experience for some of the aspiring writers here. Obviously you didn't play some of the great games that came out during the Power of Three competition otherwise you wouldn't have such a low opinion of the content that will arise.

Apart from that you're right, it's not glamorous and unless it's more along the lines of a graphic novel the script isn't going to be a huge part of the game, but sometimes that's writing. If you're looking use your writing as a means for income chances are you're going to be doing a lot of writing that isn't your vision. That's just an ugly truth. It's going to be really good practice for the writers here to work on taking someone else's concept, fleshing it out, and adapting it to a situation where perhaps the work they've done isn't the star of the show.

I for one would love to participate in this. As someone without art or programming skills I've always looked for ways to support the community and if I can work on a team and take the burden of writing a script off of a programmer or artist or maybe help someone who isn't fluent in English then I'm all for it. Any writing is good practice and if I can put that to use to help an artist here I'm all for it even it it means being the low rung on the ladder.

[TrevorW]

At 5/21/10 12:03 PM, Ass-Crumb wrote:

It's not evolution of conversation, stop sugarcoating it. You're just straying off topic. You just want an excuse to bitch about the idea of a literature portal some more. There are other places to do that, try the lounge or making a new thread. This thread is for discussion of a potential contest. Keep it that way.

No no! I want to bitch about this actually. That and make you write comments. Both please me to no end.