Post-Punk Appreciation Society

[positively-negative]

This is a crew developed for those who are fans of the Post-Punk musical genre (or direct spin-offs and relatives,) to come and discuss the music, or for those who may be interested in learning more about the genre to ask questions.

Basic information can be found here

RULESKIS:

1. Try to stay on the topic of post-punk or relative to post punk.

2. No flaming - Sure if you don't like a band, you can say you don't like them and why, but don't attack the person purely because your taste doesn't match his, because at the end of the day opinions are not facts.

3. If you are making a hypothetical claim, try to back it up with some form of evidence, be it factual or circumstantial.

4. If you are unsure of something, ask a question, not only will most people try to do their damnest to answer correctly, it could avoid potential embarassment. e.g. If you think a band is post punk but aren't sure, ask "is (insert band name here) post punk or not?"

5. Take someone's opinion seriously unless it is purely pathetic trolling. You are not the be all and end all of musical knowledge, comprehende?

Anyways, to join:

List your favourite post punk band and why.

Myself, I am an Echo and the Bunnymen guy. The talent of all four of the classic members (Ian McCulloch, Will Sergent, Les Pattinson and the late, great Pete de Frietas,) made songs like "The Killing Moon" (off their masterpiece album "Ocean Rain,) literally timeless and as beautiful today as back in the early 1980's.

[ZeroAsALimit]

O dear.

My favourite Post-Punk band is Swans, due to the fact that I could relate to many of the songs and Michael Gira has an ear for beautiful arrangements.

Sadly, I bet you knew I was going to mention an Industrial band instead of my beloved Cure or Depeche Mode.

[positively-negative]

At 3/18/08 12:32 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote: Sadly, I bet you knew I was going to mention an Industrial band instead of my beloved Cure or Depeche Mode.

I suspected much, but since Swans have elements of Post Punk and you name dropped Smith and the gang and the Mode, I forgive you.

[Night-Mare]

Bloc Party. <3

[positively-negative]

At 3/18/08 05:19 AM, Night-Mare wrote: Bloc Party. <3

I also like whys. They are a good way to start discussion.

[positively-negative]

Right, membership drive time! We need a list of NG users who like Post-Punk and are cool, then this loveable society can grow.

GO!

[MickTheChampion]

I'm quite a big fan of post-punk, so you can count me in.

I love Joy Division, I like Echo & the Bunnymen and I've recently been getting into Public Image Ltd.

I see someone mentioned Bloc Party, who are fucking terrible in my opinion, but I suppose of this kind of "Post-punk Revival" thing the only band who have interested me are "Editors". Their debut album is definitely worth a listen.

[Mr-Pope]

People should read Rip It Up And Start Again by Simon Reynolds, not only is it a treasure trove of info on post-punk but it's also one of THE great music books by the greatest music journalist of his generation.

[positively-negative]

At 3/20/08 03:48 PM, Mr-Pope wrote: People should read Rip It Up And Start Again by Simon Reynolds, not only is it a treasure trove of info on post-punk but it's also one of THE great music books by the greatest music journalist of his generation.

I will have a look for it in the Uni book store next time I'm there.

[MickTheChampion]

Someone take these dreams away,
That point me to another day,
A duel of personalities,
That stretch all true realities.

Favourite post-punk album?

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/20/08 02:25 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: I'm quite a big fan of post-punk, so you can count me in.

I love Joy Division, I like Echo & the Bunnymen and I've recently been getting into Public Image Ltd.

I see someone mentioned Bloc Party, who are fucking terrible in my opinion, but I suppose of this kind of "Post-punk Revival" thing the only band who have interested me are "Editors". Their debut album is definitely worth a listen.

I'm so-so with Bloc Party. I dislike many of their songs, but Banquet and Flux are like a hyperactive Wire given a tacky keyboard?

Public Image Ltd. are far better than The Sex Pistols and I'm very glad to see another listener. :)

People who like Post-Punk. Well, 0peth and Gendo love it. Heck, they tried to make a Goth club before. :)

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 10:12 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:
Public Image Ltd. are far better than The Sex Pistols

Debatable.

People who like Post-Punk. Well, 0peth and Gendo love it. Heck, they tried to make a Goth club before. :)

I nearly cracked someone for saying Joy Division and Echo & The Bunnymen were goth bands, none of that patter in here!

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/21/08 10:19 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Debatable.

>:(

I nearly cracked someone for saying Joy Division and Echo & The Bunnymen were goth bands, none of that patter in here!

The term Goth was coined by Joy Divisions' manager to describe his band and many Goth groups did borrow from them and love them. It's a bit like the statement "The Stooges are a Punk band", for example.

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 10:22 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:
The term Goth was coined by Joy Divisions' manager to describe his band and many Goth groups did borrow from them and love them. It's a bit like the statement "The Stooges are a Punk band", for example.

Tony Wilson was a well educated cunt, the context he was using it in didn't mean he was creating the gothic rock genre, which Joy Division doesn't sound like at all.

[MickTheChampion]

Also, can we restart this club and not use the wee gay face? It really does my head in.

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/21/08 10:28 AM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 3/21/08 10:22 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:
The term Goth was coined by Joy Divisions' manager to describe his band and many Goth groups did borrow from them and love them. It's a bit like the statement "The Stooges are a Punk band", for example.

Tony Wilson was a well educated cunt, the context he was using it in didn't mean he was creating the gothic rock genre, which Joy Division doesn't sound like at all.

Joy Division sounds similar to Sister Of Mercy. A Goth Rock band. Seriously, spin something like Day Of The Lords or Disorder. DOTL could be Bauhaus.

Even the baritone is often copied.

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 10:33 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:
Joy Division sounds similar to Sister Of Mercy. A Goth Rock band. Seriously, spin something like Day Of The Lords or Disorder. DOTL could be Bauhaus.

Even the baritone is often copied.

Right. Then wouldn't it make sense to say that Sister of Mercy had a post-punk sound?

I mean let's look at the musical direction New Order went in during the 80s, shall we? Lots of gothic rock there. Oh wait hang on, no there isn't.

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/21/08 10:37 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Right. Then wouldn't it make sense to say that Sister of Mercy had a post-punk sound?

No, that would be gibberish, there is no defining sound of Post-Punk. Wire have nothing in common with Throbbing Gristle sonically.

I mean let's look at the musical direction New Order went in during the 80s, shall we? Lots of gothic rock there. Oh wait hang on, no there isn't.

That's because. Get this: they changed musical direction after Curtis killed himself.

A quote from allmusic.com "The godfathers of goth-rock were British post-punkers Joy Division, whose bleak, remote, obsessively introspective music and lyrics laid the initial foundation for goth". Gee, look at that.

Are you new to Post-Punk?

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 10:52 AM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:

At 3/21/08 10:37 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Right. Then wouldn't it make sense to say that Sister of Mercy had a post-punk sound?

No, that would be gibberish, there is no defining sound of Post-Punk. Wire have nothing in common with Throbbing Gristle sonically.

I'd say that a defining sound of Post-Punk would be retaining musical elements of punk rock with more experimentation - which is why the movement spawned off many other genres, many of them being shit.

But gosh, that's just so simplistic. I must be new to music in general. Please lecture me with all of your opinions and I will make them my own.

I mean let's look at the musical direction New Order went in during the 80s, shall we? Lots of gothic rock there. Oh wait hang on, no there isn't.

That's because. Get this: they changed musical direction after Curtis killed himself.

Well, get this. Although Ian Curtis was the lyricist for Joy Division, the music was written as a joint effort among all members of the band, what you seem to be arguing is that Curtis was the main creative force behind the very sound of the band, and as such, his death forced them to change sound. But you know, that's bollocks.

New Order continued on from "Ceremony".

A quote from allmusic.com "The godfathers of goth-rock were British post-punkers Joy Division, whose bleak, remote, obsessively introspective music and lyrics laid the initial foundation for goth". Gee, look at that.

A quote from spunkbank.com "Just because they laid the foundation for an inferior genre of music doesn't make them a part of said genre, early gothic rock was tolerable but it eventually evolved into a pulsating pile of shite."
Gee, look at that.

Are you new to Post-Punk?

Are you new to patronising people?

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/21/08 11:03 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: I'd say that a defining sound of Post-Punk would be retaining musical elements of punk rock with more experimentation - which is why the movement spawned off many other genres, many of them being shit.

That's not a sound per se and you know it.

Well, get this. Although Ian Curtis was the lyricist for Joy Division, the music was written as a joint effort among all members of the band,

I know that, but once he died, they changed direction. Now I've heard people guess that due to the synth-bonk of Love Will Tear Us Apart, they would go on to Synth-Pop eventually.

YOu seem to imply that a band sticks to one style throughout their lifetime.

A quote from spunkbank.com "Just because they laid the foundation for an inferior genre of music doesn't make them a part of said genre, early gothic rock was tolerable but it eventually evolved into a pulsating pile of shite."
Gee, look at that.

Have you even fucking listened to a Joy Division CD and then a Bauhaus CD? There are sonic similarities. They ARE part of said genre.

Are you new to patronising people?

You started it, like you always do, with speaking down to me with your "point" about New Order.

If your point about New Order is correct (and it's just a gaping logical fallicy), then The Human League don't make Synth-Pop, because The Future sure as heck didn't.

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 12:25 PM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:
That's not a sound per se and you know it.

Oh for fuck's sake, let's nitpick until the cows come home then, shall we?

Okay, it's not a sound - it's an easily identifiable characteristic.

I know that, but once he died, they changed direction. Now I've heard people guess that due to the synth-bonk of Love Will Tear Us Apart, they would go on to Synth-Pop eventually.

Well gee, you'd think that their biggest single and then the musical direction the band when it would all imply that, wouldn't you?

YOu seem to imply that a band sticks to one style throughout their lifetime.

Not really. Have you read something wrong?

Have you even fucking listened to a Joy Division CD and then a Bauhaus CD? There are sonic similarities. They ARE part of said genre.

Joy Division are not a gothic rock band. You can say they are all you like, it doesn't make anymore true. Early music in the genre may have picked up on some features of Joy Division, but that doesn't mean Joy Division should be pidgeonholed in with a shitey genre that they're miles above.

Are you new to patronising people?

You started it, like you always do, with speaking down to me with your "point" about New Order.

Oh man, you even put that into inverted commas, someone means business!

If your point about New Order is correct (and it's just a gaping logical fallicy), then The Human League don't make Synth-Pop, because The Future sure as heck didn't.

I was only pointing out that Joy Division would've been more likely to experiment with different genres like New Order got around to doing - you can tell this with the massive difference between the early stuff they recorded as Warsaw and then the last things recorded prior to Curtis' death.

Joy Division were not, and would not have become, just another gothic rock band. I don't care what you insist - you're not changing my opinion.

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/21/08 01:02 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: Oh for fuck's sake, let's nitpick until the cows come home then, shall we?

It's a huge difference, at least I think it is.

Okay, it's not a sound - it's an easily identifiable characteristic.

Yeah. Although Industrial fits uneasily into every deifnition of Post-Punk I've ever read, they were more inflenced by what journalists call Proto-Punk.

Well gee, you'd think that their biggest single and then the musical direction the band when it would all imply that, wouldn't you?

It matters not one iota, Unknown Pleasures sounds like a Goth Rock record.

Not really. Have you read something wrong?

No, you used New Order as an argument about Joy Division.

Joy Division are not a gothic rock band. You can say they are all you like, it doesn't make anymore true. Early music in the genre may have picked up on some features of Joy Division, but that doesn't mean Joy Division should be pidgeonholed in with a shitey genre that they're miles above.

No genre is shit, you just don't want to call them what they are because you think it an insult. By your standards, no-one ever has the right to call The Stooges a Punk band. The genre, early and late, lapped up Joy Division.

Oh man, you even put that into inverted commas, someone means business!

Because it wasn't a point.

I was only pointing out that Joy Division would've been more likely to experiment with different genres like New Order got around to doing - you can tell this with the massive difference between the early stuff they recorded as Warsaw and then the last things recorded prior to Curtis' death.

I don't doubt that. Most bands experiment and the difference between the Unknown Pleasures album and the Love Will Tear Us Apart single is huge.

Joy Division were not, and would not have become, just another gothic rock band. I don't care what you insist - you're not changing my opinion.

And you're not changing my opinion either, because they sounds just like many of the early Goth Rock bands.

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 01:10 PM, ZeroAsALimit wrote:
It matters not one iota, Unknown Pleasures sounds like a Goth Rock record.

Maybe a few of the tracks, but not the entire album. Tracks like Interzone, Disorder and She's Lost Control don't sound like Goth Rock at all to me; I can see where you're coming from with tracks like Day Of The Lords and Shadowplay, but I don't think that qualifies Unknown Pleasures as a goth rock record.

I'll take on board that it definitely inspired early gothic rock, but that doesn't make it a goth rock album.

Not really. Have you read something wrong?

No, you used New Order as an argument about Joy Division.

And? New Order would've been called Joy Division anyway if it wasn't for an early agreement between the band.

No genre is shit, you just don't want to call them what they are because you think it an insult. By your standards, no-one ever has the right to call The Stooges a Punk band. The genre, early and late, lapped up Joy Division.

It is an insult and they're not a gothic rock band. I'm not going to let the legacy of one of the greatest bands of the latter half of the 20th Century be claimed by some lazy and shallow sub-par bands that followed it; and especially not the irritating sub-culture that it spat out.

Because it wasn't a point.

If you say so.

I don't doubt that. Most bands experiment and the difference between the Unknown Pleasures album and the Love Will Tear Us Apart single is huge.

Yes, which is why it's extremely fucking wrong to simply call Joy Division a goth band! Now do you see my point?

And you're not changing my opinion either, because they sounds just like many of the early Goth Rock bands.

Joy Division have sounded like the punk that came before them and the goth rock and the synth that came after them; but to simply label them as either one of these things is a crime of ignorance on your part.

[positively-negative]

At 3/21/08 10:29 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Also, can we restart this club and not use the wee gay face? It really does my head in.

Hey, it was either that or the kissing one.

And you two are like Morrissey and Robert Smith with the way you are at each other.

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/21/08 09:53 PM, positively-negative wrote:

At 3/21/08 10:29 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Also, can we restart this club and not use the wee gay face? It really does my head in.

Hey, it was either that or the kissing one.

And you two are like Morrissey and Robert Smith with the way you are at each other.

Can't we be cooler musicians? I'll be Pete Doherty and he can be Carl Barât...

... Oh fine. I'll be Sinéad O'Connor and he can be Prince. Is that better?

[positively-negative]

At 3/22/08 08:31 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Can't we be cooler musicians?

Error: Cannot compute possibility of there being two cooler musicians.

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/22/08 10:13 PM, positively-negative wrote:

At 3/22/08 08:31 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: Can't we be cooler musicians?

Error: Cannot compute possibility of there being two cooler musicians.

Robert Smith is kind of cool, but Morrissey is a massive fucking wanker. Fair enough, I like some of The Smiths tunes, but you couldn't pay me to take one of the cunts' solo albums.

[positively-negative]

At 3/23/08 05:38 PM, MickTheChampion wrote: Robert Smith is kind of cool, but Morrissey is a massive fucking wanker. Fair enough, I like some of The Smiths tunes, but you couldn't pay me to take one of the cunts' solo albums.

Hmm.

*Looks at CD collection, sees five solo Morrissey albums, says nothing.*

[MickTheChampion]

At 3/23/08 08:24 PM, positively-negative wrote:
Hmm.

*Looks at CD collection, sees five solo Morrissey albums, says nothing.*

*Looks at CD collection... Why do I have an Aswad album?*

[ZeroAsALimit]

At 3/24/08 09:12 AM, MickTheChampion wrote:

At 3/23/08 08:24 PM, positively-negative wrote:
Hmm.

*Looks at CD collection, sees five solo Morrissey albums, says nothing.*

*Looks at CD collection... Why do I have an Aswad album?*

*Looks at CD collection*

Why DON'T I have an Aswad album or any Morrissey albums? Sure, I have a compilation with an Aswad song and a Morrissey single, but no albums. D=

Also: Can we talk about New Wave too, or is that a big no-no?