System Of A Down fans might know about this: The Turks' genocide in Armenia. I have no doubt that this happened, but the turks won't admit it. They asperse it. What do you think can be done there? Your opinions.

At 1/14/07 08:34 AM, NewSkies wrote: I have no doubt that this happened, but the turks won't admit it.

You have no doubt? Yeah just because some lame band tells you so.. Nice way to go kid.. Believe any shit you hear without questioning..

http://www.armenian-genocide-lie.com http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/

Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

At 1/14/07 10:10 AM, Slat wrote: Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

Well you cant really say that since its impossible to kill every member of an ethic group there will always be people who survived somehow to repopulate.

I'm not going to those websites; I'm sure they're just as reliable as any neo-nazi site on the internet today.

At 1/14/07 10:15 AM, zeus-almighty wrote:

At 1/14/07 10:10 AM, Slat wrote: Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

Well you cant really say that since its impossible to kill every member of an ethic group there will always be people who survived somehow to repopulate.

Well yeah that's a word.

At 1/14/07 12:14 PM, SyntheticTacos wrote: I'm not going to those websites; I'm sure they're just as reliable as any neo-nazi site on the internet today.

And that means that they're not reliable at all, by the way. -_-

http://www.armenian-genocide-lie.com http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/

Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

I m a Turk and I love you for those links!

yeah, Armenian "genocide" is a big fat lie fabricated by separator bastards. Ottoman always treated Armenians well, even when they uprised and killed many Turks and other nations living in empire.

At 1/14/07 12:14 PM, SyntheticTacos wrote: I'm not going to those websites; I'm sure they're just as reliable as any neo-nazi site on the internet today.

we r not Nazis, Armenians are liars. Trust me, if it was real, we would accept it like Germans did.

At 1/14/07 08:34 AM, newskies wrote: System Of A Down fans might know about this: The Turks' genocide in Armenia. I have no doubt that this happened, but the turks won't admit it. They asperse it. What do you think can be done there? Your opinions.

The Bush admin. says we should do nothing. Let's go

At 1/14/07 10:10 AM, Slat wrote: Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

so i guess since there are still Jews the Holocaust never happened, and since there are still Hutus and Tutsis they never tried eliminating each other, or since there are still Cambodians the Khmer Rouge never committed their attrocities. i'm sorry to tell you this; but you are a fucking idiot. not because you do not believe that attrocities were committed against the Armenians but because of the reasoning you just used to argue against it.

29 May AD 1453
On this day the last vestiges of the unbroken Roman Empire, in
existence for some two thousand years, fell under the onslaught of the
Ottoman Turks. The Great City, Constantinople, was captured by Sultan
Mehmet II.

The assault began after midnight, into the 29th of May 1453. Wave
after wave the attackers charged. Battle cries, accompanied by the
sound of drums, trumpets and fifes, filled the air. The bells of the
city churches began ringing frantically. Orders, screams and the sound
of trumpets shattered the night. First came the irregulars, an
unreliable, multinational crowd of Christians and Moslems, who were
attracted by the opportunity of enriching themselves by looting the
great city, the last capital of the Roman Empire. They attacked
throughout the line of fortifications and they were massacred by the
tough professionals, who were fighting under the orders of
Giustiniani. The battle lasted two hours and the irregulars withdrew
in disorder, leaving behind an unknown number of dead and wounded.

Next came the Anatolian troops of Ishak Pasha. They tried to storm the
stockades. They fought tenaciously, even desperately trying to break
through the compact ranks of the defenders. The narrow area in which
fighting went on helped the defenders. The could hack left and right
with their maces and swords and shoot missiles onto the mass of
attackers without having to aim. A group of attackers crashed through
a gap and for a moment it seemed that they could enter the city. The
were assaulted by the Emperor and his men and were soon slain. This
second attack also failed.

But now came the Janissaries, disciplined, professional, ruthless
warriors, superbly trained, ready to die for their master, the Sultan.
They assaulted the now exhausted defenders, they were pushing their
way over bodies of dead and dying Moslem and Christian soldiers. With
tremendous effort the Greek and Italian fighters were hitting back and
continued repulsing the enemy. Then a group of enemy soldiers
unexpectedly entered the city from a small sally-port called
Kerkoporta, on the wall of Blachernae, where this wall joined the
triple wall. Fighting broke near the small gate with the defenders
trying to eliminate the intruders.

It was almost day now, the first light, before sunrise, when a shot
fired from a calverin hit Giustiniani. The shot pierced his
breastplate and he fell on the ground. Shaken by his wound and
physically exhausted, his fighting spirit collapsed. Despite the pleas
of the Emperor, who was fighting nearby, not to leave his post, the
Genoese commander ordered his men to take him out of the battle-field.
A Gate in the inner wall was opened for the group of Genoese soldiers,
who were carrying their wounded commander, to come into the city. The
soldiers who were fighting near the area saw the Gate open, their
comrades carrying their leader crossing into the city, and they though
that the defence line had been broken. They all rushed through the
Gate leaving the Emperor and the Greek fighters alone between the two
walls. This sudden movement did not escape the attention of the
Ottoman commanders. Frantic orders were issued to the troops to
concentrate their attack on the weakened position. Thousands rushed to
the area. The stockade was broken. The Greeks were now squeezed by
crowds of Janissaries between the stockade and the wall. More
Janissaries came in and many reached the inner wall.

Meanwhile more were pouring in through the Kerkoporta, where the
defenders had not been able to eliminate the first intruders. Soon the
first enemy flags were seen on the walls. The Emperor and his
commanders were trying frantically to rally their troops and push back
the enemy. It was too late. Waves of Janissaries, followed by other
regular units of the Ottoman army, were crashing throught the open
Gates, mixed with fleeing and slaughtered Christian soldiers. Then the
Emperor, realizing that everything was lost, removed his Imperial
insignia, and followed by his cousin Theophilus Palaeologus, the
Castilian Don Francisco of Toledo, and John Dalmatus, all four holding
their swords, charged into the sea of the enemy soldiers, hitting left
and right in a final act of defiance. They were never seen again.

Now thousands of Ottoman soldiers were pouring into the city. One
after the other the city Gates were opened. The Ottoman flags began
appearing on the walls, on the towers, on the Palace at Blachernae.
Civilians in panic were rushing to the churches. Others locked
themselves in their homes, some continued fighting in the streets,
crowds of Greeks and foreigners were rushing towards the port area.
The allied ships were still there and began collecting refugees. The
Cretan soldiers and sailors, manning three towers near the entrance of
the Golden Horn, were still fighting and had no intention of
surrendering. At the end, the Ottoman commanders had to agree to a
truce and let them sail away, carrying their arms.

The excesses which followed, druing the early hours of the Ottoman
victory, are described in detail by eyewitnesses. They were, and
unfortunately still are, a common practice, almost a ritual, among all
armies capturing enemy strongholds and territory after a prolonged and
violent struggle. Thus, bands of soldiers began now looting. Doors
were broken, private homes were looted, their tenants were massacred.
Shops in the city markets were looted. Monasteries and Convents were
broken in. Their tenants were killed, nuns were raped, many, to avoid
dishonor, killed themselves. Killing, raping, looting, burning,
enslaving, went on and on according to tradition. The troops had to
satisfy themselves. The great doors of Saint Sophia were forced open,
and crowds of angry soldiers came in and fell upon the unfortunate
worshippers. Pillaging and killing in the holy place went on for
hours. Similar was the fate of worshippers in most churches in the
city. Everything that could be taken from the splendid buildings was
taken by the new masters of the Imperial capital. Icons were
destroyed, precious manuscripts were lost forever. Thousands of
civilians were enslaved, soldiers fought over young boys and young
women. Death and enslavement did not distinguish among social classes.
Nobles and peasants were treated with equal ruthlessness.

In some distant neighborhoods, especially near the sea walls in the
sea of Marmora, such as Psamathia, but also in the Golden Horn at
Phanar and Petrion, where local fishermen opened the Gates, while the
enemy soldiers were pouring into the city from the land Gates, local
magistrates negotiated successfully their surrender to Hamza Bey's
officers. Their act saved the lives of their fellow citizens.
Furthermore their churches were not desecrated. Meanwhile, the crews
of the Ottoman fleet abandoned their ships to rush into the city. They
were worried that the land army was going to take everything. The
collapse of discipline gave the Christian ships time to sail out of
the Golden Horn. Venetian, Genoese and Greek ships, loaded with
refugees, some of them having reached the ships swimming from the
city, sailed away to freedom. On one of the Genoese vessels was
Giustiniani. He was taken from the boat at Chios where he died, from
his wound, a few days later.

The Sultan, with his top commanders and his guard of Janissaries,
entered the city in the afternoon of the first day of occupation.
Constantinople was finally his and he intended to make it the capital
of his mighty Empire. He toured the ruined city. He visited Saint
Sophia which he ordered to be turned into a mosque. He also ordered an
end to the killing. What he saw was desolation, destruction, death in
the streets, ruins, desecrated churches. It was too much. It is said
that, as he rode through the streets of the former capital of the
Christian Roman Empire, the city of Constantine, moved to tears he
murmured: "What a city we have given over to plunder and destruction" .

Give us back our city! We built it! I don't call you liars for calling roman baths

At 1/14/07 10:10 AM, Slat wrote: Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

Serj Tankian - born in Lebanon
Daron Malakian - born in Los Angeles
Shavo Odajian - born in Armenia
John Dolmayan - born in Lebanon
Ontronik Khachaturian - born in Iran (former member)

Yes, there was no genocide because Shavo Odajian is not dead. Nice job, moron.

;

At 10/14/07 05:30 PM, SlithVampir wrote: The Bush admin. says we should do nothing. Let's go

Why piss off an ally over something that can be considered unnecessary in our opinion since it had no effect on us?

Because they are being fags and denying it.

It happened to because Bush wouldn't (intentionally) piss off an ally unless he was sure it happened, and I don't mean oh-whoops-no-wmds sure either.

At 1/14/07 10:10 AM, Slat wrote:

At 1/14/07 08:34 AM, NewSkies wrote: I have no doubt that this happened, but the turks won't admit it.

You have no doubt? Yeah just because some lame band tells you so.. Nice way to go kid.. Believe any shit you hear without questioning..

http://www.armenian-genocide-lie.com http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/

Good job trusting two biased sources.

Get a fucking clue; the Genocide was well-proven, well documented.

Oh and if there really was a genocide, those idiots (SOAD) wouldnt be alive today.. (its sounds nice actually)..

What the fuck are you talking about? Why wouldn't they be alive?

At 10/14/07 05:52 PM, GaiusIuliusTaberna wrote: 29 May AD 1453

I don't understand what the liberation of Constantine has to do with the armenian genocide.

At 1/14/07 08:34 AM, newskies wrote: System Of A Down fans might know about this: The Turks' genocide in Armenia. I have no doubt that this happened, but the turks won't admit it. They asperse it. What do you think can be done there? Your opinions.

Hitler didn't admit his genocide, why the hell would anyone else? Genocide doesn't exactly do wonders for the view of your country by the rest of the world.

At 10/14/07 04:36 PM, Havayosunu wrote: we r not Nazis, Armenians are liars. Trust me, if it was real, we would accept it like Germans did.

Umm...dude, the Germans didn't know about the concentration camps and all the genocide going on, they were kept in the dark just like almost everybody else that wasn't directly involved in it.

Show them actual war clips from WWI depicting the genocide and Hitler's propaganda to rally the nazi's in his "Who remembers the Armenian Genocide?" campaign.

At 10/14/07 05:31 PM, SolInvictus wrote: blablabla

Jewish genocide: True. Tutsi genocide: True. Armenian genocide: Lie.

Get a fucking clue; the Genocide was well-proven, well documented.

i d like to falsify all the proofs that are invented by imperialists; but they r too many, actually.

what about reading those "unreliable" sites slat linked?

and I say again, if there was a genocide, Turkish government would accept it like Germans and other genocide maker countries did.. oh wait, French government did not accept the Algerian Genocide right? Anyway French is one of the imperialists behind genocide lie, right?

At 10/15/07 09:35 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: The Aremenians are all smelly pigs, they are filthy liars, mon vieux!

Seriously Turkey, you might not like the fact that Aremenians were hung from the lamp posts - but to me that looks like a historical fact.

Armenians are not filthy liars, they r victims of a lie invented by nations who want to destroy Turkiye.

fuck everybody hate us :P

oops i realised my two posts conflict with eachother. in first i said armenians are liars, in second i said they r not filthy liars. i meant i dont mean to insult Armenians, they r liar; but not filthy. Although all this dirty propagandas they are our brothers and sisters.

At 10/15/07 09:46 AM, MickTheChampion wrote: They have the right to their own country aswell - they're not separatists.

separatists are some G8 countries: USA, UK, France, Russia. Not poor Armenians.

What can I say, many people hate us and want to recapture Anatolia. Well there s a fact my ancestors captured Anatolia (soil of modern Turkiye) by force, and now loser countries wanna recature it by intelligence.

true or not, when Armenians will totally be able to capture East of Turkiye, they ll do it as puppets of their big brothers.

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/

Hmm, this seems to say there was one.

Aslo, the Ottoman Empire was from 1299 to 1922: you can't say that, because one leader was good to the Armeinians, the lkeader of 1915-7 was. After all, there's the minor issue of almost 700 years between the beginning and end of the Ottomans, and it's remarkably naive to think that their attitudes and mindset remained constant between the 11th century and the 20th.

And, frankly, where do you think hundred of thousands of Armenians went? One person can be walking around one day and then not be seen again without it being an issue - the population of Barnet (300,000) or Porto Allegre (1,500,000), on the other hand, you'd notice weren't there, and denying it would be remarkably stupid.

and I say again, if there was a genocide, Turkish government would accept it like Germans and other genocide maker countries did.. oh wait, French government did not accept the Algerian Genocide right? Anyway French is one of the imperialists behind genocide lie, right?

ROFL muslim countries refuse to accept history that discredits their nation. There has been well documented and recorded evidence showing that there was an Armenian genocide. Historical figures of the 20s-40s in isolated countries who hated each other agreed that the armenian genocide existed. People need to stop listening to radical propaganda and learn the truth. YES, THERE IS SUCH A THING AS THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE.

At 1/14/07 10:15 AM, <deleted> wrote: Well you cant really say that since its impossible to kill every member of an ethic group there will always be people who survived somehow to repopulate.

I don't even remember making that post one bit.

Yeah, its like the Germans just woke up one day and admitted to the holocaust. I wonder what swayed their minds?

Its almost like they were somehow coerced.

Oh yeah, maybe world war 2 had something to do with it. And the fact we found the concentration camps.

No-one is saying that all turks are nazis, but face it.... it happened...

At 10/15/07 09:30 AM, Havayosunu wrote:

At 10/14/07 05:31 PM, SolInvictus wrote: blablabla

Jewish genocide: True. Tutsi genocide: True. Armenian genocide: Lie.

yet using your logic, none of those can possibly be true since there are still Jews, Tutsis, Hutus, Cambodians, etc... alive today.
reread my reply before you post irrevelant stupidity in response.

At 10/15/07 09:38 AM, Havayosunu wrote: and I say again, if there was a genocide, Turkish government would accept it like Germans and other genocide maker countries did..

why would they accept it as fact? there is nothing that forces a country's leaders to admit to historical wrongs.