the thing that i find to be the most jarring about this, is how quickly the whole corona virus scare and telling people to stay at home was thrown out the window by the media, and now there is a letter signed by over a 1000 health experts telling people to go out to the protests. i cant think of another time i saw such a sudden shift in a media narrative. it feels like some giant mind control experiment.
At 6/6/20 10:15 PM, DeIirium wrote: the thing that i find to be the most jarring about this, is how quickly the whole corona virus scare and telling people to stay at home was thrown out the window by the media, and now there is a letter signed by over a 1000 health experts telling people to go out to the protests. i cant think of another time i saw such a sudden shift in a media narrative. it feels like some giant mind control experiment.
mfw the average north korean or chinese citizen is less brainwashed than the average US citizen. At least some of these guys have the nads to yell out the truth right in the middle of propaganda videos. What happened to the US? Why are they so... easily led now? Has the cult of political correctness evolved into a full on state-enforced religion a la Imperium of Man, complete with Commissars going around doing the "HERESY!"-BANG!- thing when people disagree with them?
PU PI PI PU PI PIII
PU PI PI PU PI PIII
I don't consider "disagreement" racism in all cases. That and I find depending on your politics you'll tend to favor certain "sources" over others regardless of facts or the lack thereof. I mean don't feel terrible about it! We're all biased to certain degrees but it is something to reflect on before going WOKE Yugi-Oh and setting up the "ist" deck.
I'm so sick of these people dog whistling their far right ideologies, writing them off as "differences in opinions" or "alternate perspectives" when really, all those talking points can be traced back to very obvious false, conspiracy driven, right wing propaganda. People need to be way more aware of dog whistling, or the act of disguising radically bigoted statements as common political discourse. They're going as far as to support conspiracy theories with extremely vague evidence by association in order to dispute the simple phrase "black lives matter". Not everything is that deep, sometimes, people are just frustrated and want others to listen. I don't get why there's people that have to try and take down anything that makes them uncomfortable.
At 6/6/20 02:56 PM, TomFulp wrote: Thanks! The pink is giving enough people vision problems that I'll probably switch back to yellow in the near future... Been enjoying it while it lasts though.
I'm diggin the Fab vibes fo sho
I find it disconcerting that instead of discussing what can be done to better improve police relations with their community, there are some who subscribe to the ACAB school of thought, and have marked any dissention as a response from the lens of racism.
You know what I want? I want the Police to have a community review board, enact community policing and do its best to present a helpful and approachable image.
I want the African American community to take the necessary steps to open dialogue with the rest of their cities and towns and actually speak to power- I've been in several Town Halls where it's more akin to griping and circle-jerking than it is a means to find a solution. Communication, transparency, accountability. There is no racial slant to ask for those three things. It isn't difficult if you cut the political bullshit and get down to what you need. Basic essential need.
Shit, I need to step up my activism game, Tom showed up in protest warms my heart. Thank you Tom for the solidarity.
If Tom really cared about BLM he would have banned all white people @Sekhem.
"خيبر خيبر يايهود جيش محمد سوف يعود"
America is so divided and damaged right now, this is the first post I've actually seen promoting unity, and it really gave me hope. On every angle of this tragedy, there is a severe lack of understanding and allowance of communication. It's either you're with us or you're against us, and if that is all you preach, that's all you teach. Nobody should be promoting the death of another, but for those who live in fear and don't understand that change is needed, putting up walls and not creating a dialogue with them is the worst thing to do because it will only perpetuate their misunderstandings and presumptions.
It's easy to say "F you" to BLM supporters or "F you" to Trump supporters because that alleviates the need to deal with that person, and you can just lump them into the category of enemy. If change is ever going to really take root, not just in America but in people's minds, we should quit screaming in each others' faces and speak on even ground. Spread understanding, not more hatred.
Thanks for spreading understanding Tom.
Thank you for your heartfelt and meaningful words on a very complex, emotive subject, Tom. Over the past few days there have been lots of brands and celebrities posting black squares, etc. and naturally the more a grassroots movement is co-opted, the more disingenuous it can seem to make a simple gesture of solidarity.
But I don't know how anyone rational could dismiss your post as virtue signalling. I have grown up with Newgrounds and seen how your integrity has prevented it from becoming just another soulless video hosting website, despite the significant financial cost to you personally. That is precisely why I keep returning to Newgrounds after so many years. So thank you, again. The world needs this kind of nuanced speech from community leaders right now if we want to see any meaningful change in the fight against racism.
At 6/6/20 06:14 PM, cyangorilla wrote:At 6/5/20 08:36 PM, RAMUSH wrote:Thank you so much for your kind words, man. Feeling heard is one of the biggest gifts you can give to those invisible to the world, so much love to you and yours as well. My family and I will most likely be fine, I just fear for the second half of this year finally bringing the punch that's been winding up for 6 months.At 6/5/20 02:34 PM, cyangorilla wrote: I'll add this as my window to edit closed:Having seen so much hate and violence in the news and in the world, iam just shocked and appalled at what people have being doing, shifting blame, say do this do that while they arent doing anything themselves and not just that, but not even realising that this is something that's been going on for such a long time these last few years, and the ability to not have a voice to speak up is horrfying, i pray for the day these these wars, this corruption and death stops, and we finally can be together in peace, but until then we have to fight, i am sorry to hear about the stuff thats been going with you my friend, i hope you are safe and things are ok, much love to you, your family and all your friends and loved ones. Stay strong!
It's been a bit frustrating from my POV, as I live in a place that can hardly be called privileged by any American standard. This is a country riddled with corruption and abuse of power. Riots are not a rare thing here and injustices are just normal. It's been specially frustrating because, once again, the US takes the spotlight, even in local media, as if we didn't have problems of our own and as if problems there have priority over the absolute poverty of the Argentinian north (not poverty as in a poor neighborhood, poverty as in entire sections of the country living in shanty towns or worse), the crushing economic situation of the country (1USD = 120ARS and counting), the thin edge on top of which our democracy balances or the authoritarian nature our politicians are displaying. I cannot leave my house to go for a walk or the police will take me away, I cannot see any loved ones in person, I cannot go to the park. I'm effectively a prisoner in my own place and this will go on for at least another month (we have the longest lockdown so far).
We have our own George Floyd, a guy by the name of Luis Espinoza. Killed by the police and thrown at the border of the neighboring province to shift blame. We can't go out and protest for him, lest we get shot. Bullets fly fast in the third world.
It's been hurtful to see people retweet shit from the Venezuelan government, just because they are bashing Trump. Don't you know anything that happens outside the US? Have you not seen how Venezuelans flee their country because they are being horribly oppressed there? Shame on anyone who amplifies the voices of oppression and fascism.
I think the US can deal with this. If you can't, then welcome to the rest of the Americas, where stability is a foreign concept and democracy and constitutions are always up to interpretation.
If thats the case then i pray and hope we are ready, things have definitely been boiling up to a much more dangerous point then usual, and it just really sucks, but iam glad to hear you and your family are doing okay, and please if you ever want to talk or need help with something, i would be happy to help you in anyway i could, love you always as well, and stay amazing
There is no reason to make this a race issue. Doing so only helps make it an issue. Am I the only one that heard the message: "Judge a man NOT BY THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN, but by the CONTENT OF HIS CHARACTER"? This is all tragic to see in a post MLK era.
That said, there is an issue with police, particularly in larger cities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxh8rdRTb0
It'd be nice if we could direct all this show of activism onto the unjust laws we currently have, like marijuana prohibition. It still exists, and is being used to extort non-violent citizens.
Also, why aren't we addressing the rioting more? This is destroying our communities, spitting on the message trying to be communicated, and causing more problems than the police ever could in one day. If you gotta protest, fine, but then you have a responsibility to ensure the protesting isn't being used as a cover to wreak havok on our neighbors' livelihoods, and isn't blocking emergency response. Educate on that.
Don't believe anything you hear from these corporate shit-stains, and I hope you haven't decided to become one, Tom
Violence begets violence. No matter how just the reason.
And although we should condemn the actions of racism and bigotry.
Hating our haters only makes things worse.
We are all human beings. And as such, we are prone to being just as emotional and irrational as any other person if circumstances were different for us.
So while we fight for justice and equality, we mustn't give into the same kind of hate that beguiles the racists and bigots to begin with.
As Martin Luther King once said
"Peace is not a goal, but a means to which we arrive at that goal."
&
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice Anywhere!"
"If someone hurts you or if you hurt someone else. The blood of that color spilled will always be red."
-Oda *(One Piece Manga Creator)
Stay safe while protesting. Keep away from Police Brutality.
Keep your heart focused on peace and justice.
However...sometimes people don't see peaceful approaches as reasonable. No matter how hard we try.
Just keep peace and love in your heart. But execute justice when necessary.
The terrorist and violent actions of racism is inexcusable and such perpetrators should be brought to justice. No matter what side of the law they appear to be on or what position of political power they hold.
At 6/7/20 01:48 PM, Psyware wrote: It's easy to say "F you" to BLM supporters or "F you" to Trump supporters because that alleviates the need to deal with that person, and you can just lump them into the category of enemy. If change is ever going to really take root, not just in America but in people's minds, we should quit screaming in each others' faces and speak on even ground. Spread understanding, not more hatred.
Big up. BLM today is 'built' to get the 'F yous' from every political spectrum, be it left, centrist or right wing thinkers. What happened to it to change it from a movement that was about human rights into a chimera of badly-thought-out policies that even a left winger and a right winger could set aside their differences to give it a 'F you'?
Sometimes I wonder if this is not a bug, but a feature. And then I must ask - why are they setting up the black lives to fail? Doesn't it 'matter' to them anymore? Or is this just more race-hate inciting and pandering to the megacorps to get that sweet donation moolah?
PU PI PI PU PI PIII
PU PI PI PU PI PIII
At 6/6/20 04:42 PM, fuckoffasshole wrote:At 6/6/20 07:03 AM, LexRodent wrote: Not 'Murrican so take it from the place it comes.Let's fucking destroy USA. That way every thing will end. Kill usa - reach hapiness
Racism sucks, no way around it.
Racially motivated deaths should have no tolerance anywhere.
But tribalism (they VS us mentality) makes things no better.
Stay away form racism ; Stay away from tribalism. Find common ground mates. Feed no divisions.
Best wishes for all of you USA citizens.
Why stopping there my good fellow ?
If we decimate all major human settlements all kinds of problems would go away :
Overpopulation, famine, wars, water shortage, global warming, animal species extinction, energetic crisis, economic deficits, pollution, and all that ugly stuff we are too selfish to fix. That's a Nobel prize idea ! :D
Musicians make music , producers make products. * drops mic :D
At 6/8/20 09:35 AM, Zachary wrote:At 6/7/20 09:48 PM, FleckoGold wrote: There is no reason to make this a race issue. Doing so only helps make it an issue. Am I the only one that heard the message: "Judge a man NOT BY THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN, but by the CONTENT OF HIS CHARACTER"? This is all tragic to see in a post MLK era.There is a race issue. Here is another quote for you:
"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there." - Malcom X
Sound familiar?
Smaller towns are even worse.
That said, there is an issue with police, particularly in larger cities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxh8rdRTb0
How about starting with ending qualified immunity?
It'd be nice if we could direct all this show of activism onto the unjust laws we currently have, like marijuana prohibition. It still exists, and is being used to extort non-violent citizens.
This line of thinking is garbage. The police are currently collectively punishing groups of peaceful protesters under the guise of taking on "the rioters" and people (like you) are so quick to defend them by saying things like "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE RIOTS???". Hilarious that you mentioned peaceful protesters being responsible for all rioters/looters when the police can't even be responsible for the person standing right next to them as they beat and tear gas peaceful protesters. Disgusting.
Also, why aren't we addressing the rioting more? This is destroying our communities, spitting on the message trying to be communicated, and causing more problems than the police ever could in one day. If you gotta protest, fine, but then you have a responsibility to ensure the protesting isn't being used as a cover to wreak havok on our neighbors' livelihoods, and isn't blocking emergency response. Educate on that.
People are dying because of bad policing and the only thing some people seem to care about is completely avoiding it. A majority of the protesters are peaceful, so why not focus on them instead?
I understand the temptation and allure of wanting to see all resistance movements as "the good guys" but frankly, if you are a person wanting to uphold human rights your best bet is doing it yourself and making changes from within starting with the bottom and working your way up. No one is mad at protesters who stayed "chill" but what "always" happens to a peaceful demonstration? Some asshole opportunist hijacks it and suddenly we have buildings being burnt down and people wondering where they're gonna get more food,clothes,and jobs in the aftermath of the destruction. Are there corrupt cops? Yeah,no shit. There are corrupt people in every rung in society and in every field you can think of. (Including people who make money off protests and selling protest merchandise! Get your George Floyd Is A Kang T-shirt for just $19.99!) How is razing an entire village whilst leaving it a ruined husk gonna help anyone though? (Including blacks who own businesses themselves by the way.)
These rioters are not Avalanche from Final Fantasy 7. Jake Paul is not Cloud and George Floyd was no Barret. While what happened to him was undeserved the guy had a long rap sheet,drugs in his system,and held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly as his friends robbed her. If you are gonna uphold a true saint and martyr for a cause choose a better friggin guy or gal who was actually a decent human being "before" being a victim of cop violence! (Not that all this is even about George Floyd anymore.)
Everyday countless people die. Sometimes it's because they get sick. Sometimes it's natural causes or an automobile accident. There are even other people like George who died because some assholes didn't know how to do their jobs or follow proper protocol. Yet of these later deaths many go "unreported". Why? Because those deaths cannot be cherry picked to spin convenient narratives with. It's obvious the news doesn't care as much about the Muslims in China being sent to prison camps whilst getting their organs harvested. Why? Welp, I guess Muslims are not a convenient talking point for elections or turning black people against white people right now! Also,why not more coverage of David Dorn,a retired officer who got killed during the riots? Oh that's right. While David was black he was also a cop so obviously he had it coming or he makes Antifa and BLM look bad so we will just "hush up" about that!
And now there's a cry to defund the police? That's madness. If you think it was terrible dealing with a few bad cops imagine dealing with roving gangs and vigilantes taking justice into their own hands where the police do not have enough funds to interject. (Whilst the gangs and self proclaimed vigilantes still have their own biases and deep down do not give a frak about anyone not allied with them directly.) Yeah,have fun "living thru that scenario" when it is "real" and not just a video-game.
At 6/8/20 01:32 PM, Zachary wrote:At 6/8/20 01:14 PM, nightsavior wrote:There are countless videos of police escalating violence by tear gassing protesters and shooting them with "less-than-lethal" rubber bullets.At 6/8/20 09:35 AM, Zachary wrote:I understand the temptation and allure of wanting to see all resistance movements as "the good guys" but frankly, if you are a person wanting to uphold human rights your best bet is doing it yourself and making changes from within starting with the bottom and working your way up. No one is mad at protesters who stayed "chill" but what "always" happens to a peaceful demonstration? Some asshole opportunist hijacks it and suddenly we have buildings being burnt down and people wondering where they're gonna get more food,clothes,and jobs in the aftermath of the destruction.At 6/7/20 09:48 PM, FleckoGold wrote: There is no reason to make this a race issue. Doing so only helps make it an issue. Am I the only one that heard the message: "Judge a man NOT BY THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN, but by the CONTENT OF HIS CHARACTER"? This is all tragic to see in a post MLK era.There is a race issue. Here is another quote for you:
"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there." - Malcom X
Sound familiar?
Smaller towns are even worse.
That said, there is an issue with police, particularly in larger cities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezxh8rdRTb0
How about starting with ending qualified immunity?
It'd be nice if we could direct all this show of activism onto the unjust laws we currently have, like marijuana prohibition. It still exists, and is being used to extort non-violent citizens.
This line of thinking is garbage. The police are currently collectively punishing groups of peaceful protesters under the guise of taking on "the rioters" and people (like you) are so quick to defend them by saying things like "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE RIOTS???". Hilarious that you mentioned peaceful protesters being responsible for all rioters/looters when the police can't even be responsible for the person standing right next to them as they beat and tear gas peaceful protesters. Disgusting.
Also, why aren't we addressing the rioting more? This is destroying our communities, spitting on the message trying to be communicated, and causing more problems than the police ever could in one day. If you gotta protest, fine, but then you have a responsibility to ensure the protesting isn't being used as a cover to wreak havok on our neighbors' livelihoods, and isn't blocking emergency response. Educate on that.
People are dying because of bad policing and the only thing some people seem to care about is completely avoiding it. A majority of the protesters are peaceful, so why not focus on them instead?
Are there corrupt cops? Yeah,no shit. There are corrupt people in every rung in society and in every field you can think of. (Including people who make money off protests and selling protest merchandise! Get your George Floyd Is A Kang T-shirt for just $19.99!) How is razing an entire village whilst leaving it a ruined husk gonna help anyone though? (Including blacks who own businesses themselves by the way.)People are looking for accountability of the police. That is why they are protesting. Not sure what you are rambling about, but it certainty doesn't pertain to holding the police accountable for beating on people.
Last time I checked, America does not punish people based on prior offenses and the police are not the judge, jury, and executioner. Really weird and telling (e.g. you are probably a racist) that you would use his history as a way to justify the police officer kneeling on his neck while he begged for help and others around him were screaming at the officer to check on him. Heartless.
These rioters are not Avalanche from Final Fantasy 7. Jake Paul is not Cloud and George Floyd was no Barret. While what happened to him was undeserved the guy had a long rap sheet,drugs in his system,and held a gun to a pregnant woman's belly as his friends robbed her. If you are gonna uphold a true saint and martyr for a cause choose a better friggin guy or gal who was actually a decent human being "before" being a victim of cop violence! (Not that all this is even about George Floyd anymore.)
It is bad that a cop was murdered and it is also bad that police cannot prevent themselves from beating on unarmed people. Both things can be true. Also, weird way to end your paragraph though when you started it with "everyday countless people die".
Everyday countless people die. Sometimes it's because they get sick. Sometimes it's natural causes or an automobile accident. There are even other people like George who died because some assholes didn't know how to do their jobs or follow proper protocol. Yet of these later deaths many go "unreported". Why? Because those deaths cannot be cherry picked to spin convenient narratives with. It's obvious the news doesn't care as much about the Muslims in China being sent to prison camps whilst getting their organs harvested. Why? Welp, I guess Muslims are not a convenient talking point for elections or turning black people against white people right now! Also,why not more coverage of David Dorn,a retired officer who got killed during the riots? Oh that's right. While David was black he was also a cop so obviously he had it coming or he makes Antifa and BLM look bad so we will just "hush up" about that!
The police ARE the roving gang of vigilantes taking "justice" into their own hands. That is why people are protesting that they be held accountable. Police do not need to be completely removed from society, but they do need to be reformed, demilitarized, and have their funds adjusted.
And now there's a cry to defund the police? That's madness. If you think it was terrible dealing with a few bad cops imagine dealing with roving gangs and vigilantes taking justice into their own hands where the police do not have enough funds to interject. (Whilst the gangs and self proclaimed vigilantes still have their own biases and deep down do not give a frak about anyone not allied with them directly.) Yeah,have fun "living thru that scenario" when it is "real" and not just a video-game.
And you think doing away with the police will solve everything whilst a similar group will not simply "rise up" in their place? (And most likely become even "worse" over time as who will even dare to hold them accountable for their actions?) Also, I thought this was a certain event in a certain city so why must "everyone" be in on this? (Because it's "convenient" as a divisive narrative and as a political tool.) Be honest, there are people who "always" monopolize on a tragedy whilst acting holier than thou art on the surface. I can tell you I love you while still pointing a gun at you beneath the table. It seems as if many are unaware of the art of deception or as the Greeks would say,a Trojan-Horse.
At 6/8/20 01:54 PM, Zachary wrote:At 6/8/20 01:42 PM, nightsavior wrote: And you think doing away with the police will solve everything whilst a similar group will not simply "rise up" in their place? (And most likely become even "worse" over time.) Also, I thought this was a certain event in a certain city so why must "everyone" be in on this? (Because it's "convenient" as a divisive narrative and as a political tool.) Be honest, there are people who "always" monopolize on a tragedy whilst acting holier than thou art on the surface. I can tell you I love you while still pointing a gun at you beneath the table. It seems as if many are unaware of the art of deception or as the Greeks would say,a Trojan-Horse.I have never once said to do away with police and in fact at the end of my last post I explicitly stated we do not need to remove all police. Please do not be so emotional and eager to defend police brutalizing the citizens of the United States that you completely ignore my points.
Power corrupts and we need to hold those in power accountability to prevent bad behavior. That is why we need accountability for the police. There are too many examples of police murdering American citizens and getting away with it.
How about Daniel Shaver?
How about Philando Castile?
There are countless more examples.
Don't do that. "You disagree with me so you must be FOR terrible things". That's a disingenuous tactic to deploy when debating. (And Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.) No one argued that what happened to George was unjust. Everyone wanted those officers to be held accountable and for there to be reforms within law enforcement. That doesn't mean George himself is a saint or that all these protests have stayed peaceful. (And not everyone involved in the protests have noble intentions either.)
I apologize if I somewhat misunderstood your point but when you defund a group they're gonna struggle and be a shadow of what they once were. That means even "good cops" would be hindered in doing their jobs properly. They certainly should be held accountable but I do not know if cutting them off from the resources they need on a grand scale is a good idea. This also seems to be punishing "all cops" for the actions of the bad ones.
Regardless we can agree to disagree. I don't have anything else to add without repeating myself. I could post links too to back up my POV but I find that often quickly devolves into the "But your sources are BIAS!" grandstanding that I find to be tedious/meaningless.
At 6/8/20 02:18 PM, Zachary wrote:At 6/8/20 02:07 PM, nightsavior wrote:Yet here you are, defending the police by bringing up George Floyd's criminal history which has nothing to do with him being murdered in cold blood with a knee on his neck. You are actively arguing that his murder was justified lol.At 6/8/20 01:54 PM, Zachary wrote:Don't do that. "You disagree with me so you must be FOR terrible things". That's a disingenuous tactic to deploy when debating. (And Assuming makes an ass out of you and me.) No one argued that what happened to George was unjust. Everyone wanted those officers to be held accountable and for there to be reforms within law enforcement. That doesn't mean George himself is a saint or that all these protests have stayed peaceful. (And not everyone involved in the protests have noble intentions either.)At 6/8/20 01:42 PM, nightsavior wrote: And you think doing away with the police will solve everything whilst a similar group will not simply "rise up" in their place? (And most likely become even "worse" over time.) Also, I thought this was a certain event in a certain city so why must "everyone" be in on this? (Because it's "convenient" as a divisive narrative and as a political tool.) Be honest, there are people who "always" monopolize on a tragedy whilst acting holier than thou art on the surface. I can tell you I love you while still pointing a gun at you beneath the table. It seems as if many are unaware of the art of deception or as the Greeks would say,a Trojan-Horse.I have never once said to do away with police and in fact at the end of my last post I explicitly stated we do not need to remove all police. Please do not be so emotional and eager to defend police brutalizing the citizens of the United States that you completely ignore my points.
Power corrupts and we need to hold those in power accountability to prevent bad behavior. That is why we need accountability for the police. There are too many examples of police murdering American citizens and getting away with it.
How about Daniel Shaver?
How about Philando Castile?
There are countless more examples.
Last time I checked, good cops do not need tanks and full tactical gear to police their communities. Here is what the "good" cops do when the bad cops are held accountable: https://www.boston.com/news/national-news-2/2020/06/05/57-buffalo-cops-resign-from-special-squad-after-2-suspended-for-shoving-75-year-old-protester-to-the-ground
I apologize if I somewhat misunderstood your point but when you defund a group they're gonna struggle and be a shadow of what they once were. That means even "good cops" would be hindered in doing their jobs properly. They certainly should be held accountable but I do not know if cutting them off from the resources they need on a grand scale is a good idea. This also seems to be punishing "all cops" for the actions of the bad ones.
If "good" cops will not hold the bad cops accountable, then it is up to us to make sure everyone is held accountable.
Yeah, I disagree with you that people deserve to be murdered over petty crimes by cops on power trips.
Regardless we can agree to disagree. I don't have anything else to add without repeating myself. I could post links too to back up my POV but I find that often quickly devolves into the "But your sources are BIAS!" grandstanding that I find to be tedious/meaningless.
Anyone who can read can tell what I mean is "vastly different" from the picture you are trying to paint and to frame. You really need to "relax",brah. You're self righteous enough to outdo a whole squad of Holy-Templar space marines!
At 6/8/20 02:28 PM, nightsavior wrote: You're self righteous enough to outdo a whole squad of Holy-Templar space marines!
You are on several levels of pants on head retarded right now. The word autistic wouldn't do you justice.
At 6/8/20 02:33 PM, Ryan wrote:At 6/8/20 02:28 PM, nightsavior wrote: You're self righteous enough to outdo a whole squad of Holy-Templar space marines!You are on several levels of pants on head retarded right now. The word autistic wouldn't do you justice.
I have great respect and admiration for autists. Thank you!
At 6/8/20 02:07 PM, nightsavior wrote: That doesn't mean George himself is a saint or that all these protests have stayed peaceful. (And not everyone involved in the protests have noble intentions either.)
Just think about Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery then.
This fight is as much for them as it is for George Floyd.
Floyd's death was just the straw that broke the camels back.
I can't speak for the US but with the UK protests it's been very clear that the perpetrators of violence and vandalism have been the ones to tag onto the end of the day's protesting for the sole purpose of stirring up trouble as soon as the sun goes down.
You have to wonder what their real cause is because their actions are only hindering the fight because it gives people like you ammunition against the mostly peaceful protests.
[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]
At 6/8/20 03:08 PM, Gagsy wrote:At 6/8/20 02:07 PM, nightsavior wrote: That doesn't mean George himself is a saint or that all these protests have stayed peaceful. (And not everyone involved in the protests have noble intentions either.)Just think about Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery then.
This fight is as much for them as it is for George Floyd.
Floyd's death was just the straw that broke the camels back.
I can't speak for the US but with the UK protests it's been very clear that the perpetrators of violence and vandalism have been the ones to tag onto the end of the day's protesting for the sole purpose of stirring up trouble as soon as the sun goes down.
You have to wonder what their real cause is because their actions are only hindering the fight because it gives people like you ammunition against the mostly peaceful protests.
Mate,we're dealing with riots and lootings. Good on you if the UK is protesting more peacefully but sadly certain protests here have been compromised and turned violent. Not all of them but if you haven't seen ANY live footage of shit on fire and windows being smashed I almost envy your innocence.
And why do you put it like I'm using ammunition? For fuck sakes, I agree their are bad cops and a need for reform but do we need to DESTROY businesses and neighborhoods to accomplish that? Why cut off the nose to spite the face? Why not just harshly punish the individuals who abuse their power as opposed to punishing "everyone"?
At 6/8/20 03:35 PM, nightsavior wrote: Mate,we're dealing with riots and lootings. Good on you if the UK is protesting more peacefully but sadly certain protests here have been compromised and turned violent. Not all of them but if you haven't seen ANY live footage of shit on fire and windows being smashed I almost envy your innocence.
Oh yeah our innocence.
[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]
[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]
At 6/8/20 04:09 PM, Gagsy wrote:At 6/8/20 03:35 PM, nightsavior wrote: Mate,we're dealing with riots and lootings. Good on you if the UK is protesting more peacefully but sadly certain protests here have been compromised and turned violent. Not all of them but if you haven't seen ANY live footage of shit on fire and windows being smashed I almost envy your innocence.Oh yeah our innocence.
Well that picture kind of proves my point. "That" and I don't understand defacing statues because even if they are statues of "assholes" it is history we can learn from to better ourselves.
I mean I'm no fan of Stalin or Marx but I'm not going to deface or break those monuments. They have a right to exist just like statues of our civil-war generals who served on both sides.
At 6/8/20 04:49 PM, nightsavior wrote:
Well that picture kind of proves my point. "That" and I don't understand defacing statues because even if they are statues of "assholes" it is history we can learn from to better ourselves.
I mean I'm no fan of Stalin or Marx but I'm not going to deface or break those monuments. They have a right to exist just like statues of our civil-war generals who served on both sides.
What you don't understand is that the photo of statue I showed being pushed into the river is of a man that the majority of Brits outside of Bristol could not have told you the name of (Edward Colston) before today.
This is LIVING history right now.
A man who made his fortune trading slaves then monopolied the local area using that blood money so his name could long on long after he died, and it did in that area for years and years. Millions of us in the UK never realised this because it was brushed aside, deemed not important.
Much like years of the media here ignoring the abuses of Jimmy Saville. "Sure he molests kids but look at the money he raises for charity". It wasn't until everyday people revolted and brought the issue FORWARD that appearances changed.
And now people have had enough. Years of petitions and protests to get the statue removed ignored by the council and government and now the people have spoken.
If you don't see that this is history in the making then compare it to the plight of the suffragettes. Denied, ridiculed, criminalised - it wasn't until brave women said "fuck this, we've had enough of this establishment that doesn't treat us as equal individuals" and they fucking acted. And thank god they did, so I myself can vote and have my own freedoms as a woman.
And you can argue that black people have thoss same rights and yes they do but they are not treated as equals.
So that is why they are fighting so that finally they can be treated the same as the white man.
Yes, I do not agree with looting shops and attacking police trying to protest (that may apply more in the uk, I've seen enough of the violence of US officers over the last week thank you), and as I said before that to me is a case of misguided individuals looking more for a fight than reform. So you should ignore those people because all they are doing is ruining the good fight of people who have been dying to finally be heard.
BLM
[I've been wandering round but I still come back to you]
At 6/7/20 09:48 PM, FleckoGold wrote: There is no reason to make this a race issue. Doing so only helps make it an issue.
The police, the failure that was reconstruction and decades of racism have made this a race issue, not those protesting and rioting.
This is all tragic to see in a post MLK era.
MLK was targeted, harassed, and more by the FBI, as well as shot to death by a white man.
At 6/8/20 05:09 PM, Gagsy wrote:At 6/8/20 04:49 PM, nightsavior wrote:Well that picture kind of proves my point. "That" and I don't understand defacing statues because even if they are statues of "assholes" it is history we can learn from to better ourselves.What you don't understand is that the photo of statue I showed being pushed into the river is of a man that the majority of Brits outside of Bristol could not have told you the name of (Edward Colston) before today.
I mean I'm no fan of Stalin or Marx but I'm not going to deface or break those monuments. They have a right to exist just like statues of our civil-war generals who served on both sides.
This is LIVING history right now.
A man who made his fortune trading slaves then monopolied the local area using that blood money so his name could long on long after he died, and it did in that area for years and years. Millions of us in the UK never realised this because it was brushed aside, deemed not important.
Much like years of the media here ignoring the abuses of Jimmy Saville. "Sure he molests kids but look at the money he raises for charity". It wasn't until everyday people revolted and brought the issue FORWARD that appearances changed.
And now people have had enough. Years of petitions and protests to get the statue removed ignored by the council and government and now the people have spoken.
If you don't see that this is history in the making then compare it to the plight of the suffragettes. Denied, ridiculed, criminalised - it wasn't until brave women said "fuck this, we've had enough of this establishment that doesn't treat us as equal individuals" and they fucking acted. And thank god they did, so I myself can vote and have my own freedoms as a woman.
And you can argue that black people have thoss same rights and yes they do but they are not treated as equals.
So that is why they are fighting so that finally they can be treated the same as the white man.
Yes, I do not agree with looting shops and attacking police trying to protest (that may apply more in the uk, I've seen enough of the violence of US officers over the last week thank you), and as I said before that to me is a case of misguided individuals looking more for a fight than reform. So you should ignore those people because all they are doing is ruining the good fight of people who have been dying to finally be heard.
BLM
I do not think we're actually disagreeing "much".
-Is there peaceful protesting? Yes. I have no beef with those people. It's the rioters/opportunists I'm against.
-Does there need to be reforms in law enforcement and swift harsh punishment of bad cops? Yes. I'm just not for entirely de-funding the police.
-I get that statue was of a bad person but you need to "remember" bad people along with the good ones to learn from the past. (But hopefully not "live' in the past or repeat it.)
-People have done bad things in the name of BLM. It doesn't mean all people apart of BLM are bad or that BLM has not done "positive" things too but again, you have to accept the truth,even when it presents things you do not personally like. Reality spares none of us.
-"All lives matter" (At least the lives of all compassionate,generous,honest,courageous,hard-working "good" people of all creeds and colors.)
-No one disputes what happened to George was egregious and entirely uncalled for but why must that be "your" tragedy or the tragedy of a whole collective? That's easy to exploit and easy to get mobs kicked up into a frenzy. Sadly by the time the ashes settle and the bodies are sent to the morgue no one even thinks about the original incident that started it anymore.
- And what am I using "ammunition" for exactly? I'm just acknowledging both the good AND the bad. That's not the same thing as encouraging a purge/genocide. I was hoping this tragedy would have us come together in solidarity as opposed to ripping us apart. Alas,my faith in humanity is sometimes misplaced.
At 6/8/20 02:07 PM, nightsavior wrote: I apologize if I somewhat misunderstood your point but when you defund a group they're gonna struggle and be a shadow of what they once were. That means even "good cops" would be hindered in doing their jobs properly. They certainly should be held accountable but I do not know if cutting them off from the resources they need on a grand scale is a good idea. This also seems to be punishing "all cops" for the actions of the bad ones.
Regardless we can agree to disagree. I don't have anything else to add without repeating myself. I could post links too to back up my POV but I find that often quickly devolves into the "But your sources are BIAS!" grandstanding that I find to be tedious/meaningless.
Except, as the protests are showing, the problems with the police are more widespread than most have been admitting. The willingness to use violent tactics on innocent protesters (just because other protests have turned violent) should be shocking to us as citizens. And, as Zachary has pointed out, when punishment is attempted of bad cops, the rest of the force flock around them in the blue wall, complaining about their unjust treatment.
As for defunding police "punishing" them, I suppose that is a way to look at it. In reality, even were the police not abusing their positions, 90% of what the police do today is not needed, nor is it helpful to society. At the same time, they fail to fulfill their most basic function virtually everywhere- solving violent victim creating crimes. Pruning back the police is a societal good on it's own. Removing the ability to buy tanks, ATVs, and other military grade equipment is a universal good, as well as fiscal common sense.
That some police are hindered in the pursuit of legitimate objectives (assuming this weill happen) is not punishment. It doesn't affect their personal lives, rights or freedoms. They're not even going to be held accountable if their professional performance suffers. And, overall, even viewing it as punishment, one cannot continue the current path because a few good apples might be indirectly affected by defunding largely corrupt and illegitimate activities. That's just not good sense.
At 6/8/20 05:09 PM, Gagsy wrote: A man who made his fortune trading slaves then monopolied the local area using that blood money so his name could long on long after he died, and it did in that area for years and years. Millions of us in the UK never realised this because it was brushed aside, deemed not important.
Virtually everyone at the time made money off of slavery. Saying that his indirect participation in acts common amongst his profession makes him a bad person is...interesting, to say the least. Nevertheless, he was a wealthy man from legitimate activities, who then became a member of a company that made money, in part, off of slavery, which they had been doing long before he came along. In contrast to his minor involvement with that, his charitable activities were significant and still benefit people today. Criticism of Colston comes not from any sort of historical perspective, but on current views of the world. It wholly exaggerates his evils while ignoring completely his goods.
And now people have had enough. Years of petitions and protests to get the statue removed ignored by the council and government and now the people have spoken.
If my neighbor wishes to hang a picture of Hitler in his window, my dislike of Hitler doesn't give me the right to go destroy his property. This is no different.
If you don't see that this is history in the making then compare it to the plight of the suffragettes. Denied, ridiculed, criminalised - it wasn't until brave women said "fuck this, we've had enough of this establishment that doesn't treat us as equal individuals" and they fucking acted. And thank god they did, so I myself can vote and have my own freedoms as a woman.
Actually, let's be blunt. The suffragettes were good women. But if men, those in power, hadn't backed them, they would still have no rights today. Had we truly lived in the caveman society that many feminists pretend, the suffragettes would've simply been beaten, raped, and thrown back in the kitchen or bedroom. If they weren't killed that is.
The success of the suffragette movement shows the genteel nature of our society. We have seen how protests worked in Nazi Germany, communist Russia and China and other dictatorships. The protesters end up in mass graves.
So that is why they are fighting so that finally they can be treated the same as the white man.
Yes, I do not agree with looting shops and attacking police trying to protest (that may apply more in the uk, I've seen enough of the violence of US officers over the last week thank you), and as I said before that to me is a case of misguided individuals looking more for a fight than reform. So you should ignore those people because all they are doing is ruining the good fight of people who have been dying to finally be heard.
Viewing this as a black/white issue ignores the actual nature of the problem. Police routinely assault and kill people of all colors without cause. The qualified immunity cases in front of the Supreme Court now have gotten virtually no attention from the media, because most of the victims were white, and therefore not chic enough to notice. But the cases still involved the same sort of misconduct we saw in the cases of Garner, Floyd and more. Indeed, dozens of nonviolent white suspects were treated the same as Floyd with nary a peep from the media.
Pretending that it's a race issue simply because it happens to black citizens disproportionately suggests that it would be ok, if only the misconduct was racially proportionate. The problem is the same whether it affects 100% white, 100% black, or any mix in between. There is nothing to even hint that Floyd would've gotten different treatment if he was white. Correctly identifiying it as a problem with official misconduct, regardless of race, allows us to attack the problem, rather than put a bandaid on it.
It is a shame that the government breaks the law more than the criminals it punishes.
I'm just glad everything's been largely peaceful in my county in Texas. Unlike a certain one... cough Dallas cough
As someone who supports the 2nd Amendment, defunding the police could encourage people to protect themselves for a change. However where will the good cops find jobs? I hope the city (any city considering defunding or outright abolishing) will help them find new jobs to help keep bread on the table.
On a side note, has anyone noticed the steady resurgence of COVID-19 cases from the riots and protests?
We live in uncertain times, friends.
Making unoriginal content since 2008!
