00:00
00:00
Newgrounds Background Image Theme

MicPix just joined the crew!

We need you on the team, too.

Support Newgrounds and get tons of perks for just $2.99!

Create a Free Account and then..

Become a Supporter!

Music as a Career

4,667 Views | 49 Replies
New Topic Respond to this Topic

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 03:55:41


At 12/21/14 07:11 PM, TheAudioGuy wrote:
At 12/21/14 07:06 AM, Troisnyx wrote:
KgZ, the professional musician, posting advice on, guess what, an ONLINE FORUM!
who?


This is something I would normally joke about, but deprivation of it along with past abuse has driven me to anger and resolve to make music a career. I won't tolerate anyone who tries to make light of this.
what?

Oh, don't try to play dumb. There was a thread by KgZ, "I'm a Musician at Harmonix, AMA!" and people were seeking advice from him. You never even stopped him, or stopped to scoff at anyone by saying, "pitiful, people looking for music advice on an online forum," did you? He was a professional musician going to -- guess what -- AN ONLINE FORUM! -- to share what he had with people who aspire to make music like he does.

Commodore 64 composer Jeroen Tel was part of the Newgrounds Audio Portal Skype Chat for a time, before he left due to some people's childish attitudes. He, too, at least had the decency to share what he did through online means.

I would normally joke about finding music advice through an online forum, but I won't now. I'd been deprived of the chance by my parents, who threatened to send me away penniless while I was not of legal working age if I ever pleaded to study music again. Knowing their temperament, they would have certainly gone through with their threats. That, and being beaten up for composing music. All this abuse leaves me no choice but to seek help anywhere I can find it. And what's more, I'm not the only one having been through this situation.

You have chosen to make light of many people's aspirations, effectively behaving like a jerk to them.

NO ESCAPING THIS ONE, BUDDY.

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 12:09:22


At 12/22/14 03:55 AM, Troisnyx wrote:
Oh, don't try to play dumb. There was a thread by KgZ, "I'm a Musician at Harmonix, AMA!" and people were seeking advice from him. You never even stopped him, or stopped to scoff at anyone by saying, "pitiful, people looking for music advice on an online forum," did you? He was a professional musician going to -- guess what -- AN ONLINE FORUM! -- to share what he had with people who aspire to make music like he does.

yo, i don't look at every thread in the audio forum alright.


Commodore 64 composer Jeroen Tel was part of the Newgrounds Audio Portal Skype Chat for a time, before he left due to some people's childish attitudes. He, too, at least had the decency to share what he did through online means.

that's great. someone who probably knows what their talking about. not some random dork on an audio forum.

I would normally joke about finding music advice through an online forum, but I won't now. I'd been deprived of the chance by my parents, who threatened to send me away penniless while I was not of legal working age if I ever pleaded to study music again. Knowing their temperament, they would have certainly gone through with their threats. That, and being beaten up for composing music. All this abuse leaves me no choice but to seek help anywhere I can find it. And what's more, I'm not the only one having been through this situation.

not seeing the link between having crappy parents and the desire to get info from internet forums. if u want help, u have to seek help in places full of people that will help, otherwise you'll be set back further. the amount of bs i've read online about making music is crazy!


You have chosen to make light of many people's aspirations, effectively behaving like a jerk to them.

NO ESCAPING THIS ONE, BUDDY.

D:

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 13:34:10


At 12/22/14 12:09 PM, TheAudioGuy wrote: yo, i don't look at every thread in the audio forum alright.

Immaterial. It was quite well-publicised and even appeared on the Community > Forums homepage for quite a while. It was well within public knowledge, and there's no excuse for you to have not even known about it, unless of course you were busy spending time on other stuff that could be considered.... how do I say, "more worth your time."

that's great. someone who probably knows what their talking about. not some random dork on an audio forum.

Tell that to everyone who has succeeded and comes back to the Audio Forum to give help.
In fact, tell that to Tel (pardon the pun) himself. I'm sure some would have seen him as no more than some random dork.

not seeing the link between having crappy parents and the desire to get info from internet forums. if u want help, u have to seek help in places full of people that will help, otherwise you'll be set back further. the amount of bs i've read online about making music is crazy!

Which is why I don't read it. Unlike you. If you were really interested in setting up a niche, you'd work hard, make your contacts, and not worry about the hordes of articles promising fame and glory. Unless of course, said articles were actually from *trusted* sources.

This is a place full of people that will help. They're practically giving their time to be friends with you, and help you go further. They may not help in giving you a break, mind, but they can help give little lifts. And sometimes, little lifts are far better than big breaks. THIS IS LITERALLY THE ONLY INTERNET FORUM I VISIT FOR MUSIC. And the amount of production help I have gotten from here is downright crazy. People on any other internet forum will just go, "bah n00b, don't waste our timezorz."

I came here on @Sorohanro's invitation. He's a professional, and a successful one at that (at least, many of us believe so). He wouldn't have invited me if this site didn't help. I seized an opportunity which my family didn't give me. If it doesn't work for you, fine: don't go belittling other people just because what works for them doesn't work for you.

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 15:10:52


At 12/22/14 01:34 PM, Troisnyx wrote: lots of assumptions

yeah alright, some people who use audio forums succeed to a degree. most of them don't which is why in most cases their word isn't reliable and can be misleading, especially about the topic of making a career out of music. every now and then, you'll probably pick up some good info from audio forums, but you just need to be careful.

that's essentially all i'm sayin'

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 15:33:36


At 12/22/14 03:10 PM, TheAudioGuy wrote:
At 12/22/14 01:34 PM, Troisnyx wrote: lots of assumptions
yeah alright, some people who use audio forums succeed to a degree. most of them don't which is why in most cases their word isn't reliable and can be misleading, especially about the topic of making a career out of music. every now and then, you'll probably pick up some good info from audio forums, but you just need to be careful.

that's essentially all i'm sayin'

Says the person who made the assumption in the first place.

You could have said that in the first place, rather than dick around about people who actually go seek help on forums from people who help. Mind, you also made the assumption that people who looked for help on audio forums were pitiful, by the way your earliest post was worded.

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 21:37:30 (edited 2014-12-22 21:51:00)


At 12/22/14 06:57 PM, ZStriefel wrote: Not to mention, Winifred Philips posted here a few times. Got flamed by a bunch of idiots though, so I doubt she'll be coming back :/

Winifred Phillips Posted on NG and Got Flamed?

LOL WHAT?
Wow.

Edit:

Searched and found the thread in question. Holy shit. That's some angry posters if I've ever seen any. Such passive aggressive tones. Such unnecessarily snide remarks. Mygod.

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-22 23:52:17


This is when I'd like to note with some warning something I witnessed in an interview with Garry Schyman, the composer for Bioshock... and a few random thoughts.

A bubbly fellow, a huge fan of Schyman's work, came up to note how much it had inspired him to write music and how much he idolized him, and Schyman, instead of saying "thank you" or "I'm so glad to hear that" or whatever you might expect, told him that he was making a terrible mistake.

The point he proceeded to make was that you should never let who (or what) is idolized in your mind or vogue to steer your creative ambitions. You should try to understand yourself; seek the eccentric and reach out to corners of music that lie distant. Just because someone does something a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way or the only way you should do it. The game of scoring is much like voice acting- it is not who can do the best Donald Duck impression, it's who can do their own flavor of Donald Duck while singing the Star Spangled Banner, and then suddenly switch to a completely different character without any transition. It's about being able to combine your self-exploration with your sense of self-preservation, and those that can do that (John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernard Herrmann, etc.) that generate the biggest praise. What's important to note about all these figures is that they didn't do exactly what everyone else was doing at their time. They all sought to draw from disparate areas of music- combine, vary, and build upon pre-existing ideas.

In other words, they "used their goddamn ears!"

If you want to pursue a job as a composer for media, you first must be able to compose for yourself. Find your voice, however deep you have to go, however much rejection you have to brush off, however much you have to study and listen to in order to get there. Find the things you like in your music and play around with them. Take them as far as you can, and vary them in as many ways as you can. Learn to use this varied palette as your toolbox. Every time you hear a cool piece that you like, don't just say "wow, what a cool piece", try to get your hands on music for it or figure out by ear what is going on, but don't simply take things. Adapt them. Vary them. Always, always, always build off of what you know and what you have. You in many cases won't be building "up", but rather building to the sides, diagonally, building connections in other areas of music and arts. Never give up the exploring spirit that brought you here. I have, at times done so, with the greatest and most painful of regret.

You do not need to be the best at what you are in order to succeed. Concern yourself with having fun with what you do, and loving and embracing all of music for what it is. Reach out for opportunities, but do not act like a robot from a distant universe. The world wants to see someone they can shake hands with and joke around with. Networking is nothing more than making friends with people who have similar or overlapping interests with you. :)

It's a poor idea to focus too much on the actual task of making a career. You'll spend too much time worrying about it and focusing on it than actually doing it. Focus instead on what you can do today, right now, that will help you tomorrow. Perhaps it's finding a composer who can give you serious, earnest feedback on your work. Perhaps it's a job at a store. Perhaps it's finding some flash game you can do music and sound for. Perhaps it's just sitting down at your computer and daring yourself- challenging yourself to not delete one note you put down and to endure that mess until something beautiful comes out. The people you meet (or block out of your life), the projects you complete (or pass by or trainwreck all over), the skills and extra talents you pick up (or ignore) today will have a lasting impact on your tomorrow, but more importantly, they are the actions you will have to face right now, today. Keep a smile on your face and never let music stop amazing you. ;)


My Music - Virtual Instruments - About Me

Orchestral Composer, VI Developer

BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-23 12:03:50 (edited 2014-12-23 12:06:27)


I find this thread really inspiring and has a lot of good opinions and advice. Just like a poster stated to take advice with a grain of salt, but mostly everything I read was helpful and generous for online forums. People actually write paragraphs of advice.

I've thought about music as a career. Maybe I went diving into the deep pool at first thinking I was gonna become famous and make money, but hey I think making mistakes along the way is what its really about. I was probably one of those posters with a get rich quick scheme running through my mind. I'm not successful in music but I would say just have fun with music as a career while making it on your own. I don't think any production studio will personally call your number. you have to find the right people to work with, collaborate and make art. (I'm just looking at Steve Aoki's latest album, not one song was produced by one person. Each song features somebody else).

like a previous poster also said, you have to stay true to your uniqueness. You can't just listen to something and copy it. Study it. Write down the beat, transitioning, frequency changes, buildups, riffs. Jot down every sound in the song and make a pattern on a piece of paper. When you understand successful music and how it works you can more fully understand what to incorporate in your own music. I took keyboard for a while so I know about chords and stuff, but I don't think its enough. Practice doesn't make perfect, but I don't think perfect is what you should strive for. Make mistakes!

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-23 12:45:11


Several weeks back I made a few posts over on this page -- most of what I said applies to this topic.

I just want to add/emphasize one thing -- If you can diversify your skill set, you will have a much better chance of being successful. Being solely a composer or performer is very difficult, and very few people can do this and pay the bills. It takes a lot of patience and hard work, and a lot of luck.

Instead -- I'd recommend getting a degree that allows you to teach. Whether it be a degree in music education (so you can teach in a school), or a degree in music performance (so you can teach private students), both of these will provide you with a pretty steady source of income. I have degrees in both theory and composition, and NOT ONCE has someone I've worked with asked me about them. That's not to say the degrees are worthless (I'd get them again if I had to do it over), but for being a "commercial" composer or performer, your degrees alone won't matter much.

If you're serious about pursuing music professionally, and aren't willing/able to get a degree in something else so you can have a cozy day job, get a music degree that will allow you to teach. If your professional career picks up, you can simply scale back your teaching.

This has been true for many centuries -- most all of the big composers had students they taught. Most all big performers have had students, or taught in some capacity. If you can get your income from multiple sources, you'll have much more control over your income stability. Diversification is the name of the game.


BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-23 15:25:27


There is some fantastic advice in this thread. I think that many of us here are in the same boat, so to speak. We all congregate here on the forums to share our experiences and to learn from each other (which is awesome). Through all of this interaction, we grow and become better musicians, composers, etc. However, we are also networking on various levels.

What @Bosa said about contacts - that's very, very important.

While going to business school, it was drilled into my head that networking is a pillar of the professional world; make contacts wherever you can! Here on Newgrounds, Soundcloud, or any other mass-media site, at school, in your community, at work, and so on. The six degrees of separation, as they say! Making contacts in an audio environment would be the ideal choice though. :)

Obviously, working on your music is absolutely paramount...but that comes with time and experience! I keep having to tell myself this when I cringe at my own music and skill hahaha! Also, what @samulis mentioned about learning and reflecting upon your music AND yourself - that is ESSENTIAL. You are an individual, and therefore your music should be, in some ways, a reflection, a piece of who YOU are.

@DavidOrr offered some wonderful advice a while back, too. While reading through his post, I was reminded of something that Graeme Norgate had said to me a few years back when I had (blindly) reached out to him for advice. I didn't expect a response from a busy fellow like him, but I kept checking back periodically anyway. Eventually, he got back to me and said something like this:

"My only advice if anything is to stick at it, and here's the tricky part...don't give up your studying because of it. The number of composers, much like actors, far out weigh the number of jobs available. I got lucky, I was in the right place at the right time, wasn't the greatest musician, but got the break, and worked and worked at it to get better....and this was after spending 9 years composing in my spare time, keeping my day job, hating it, but never giving up. It's not going to be easy, at times you'll feel like selling your music gear and never listening to a note of music again, but ride out the bad times and the good times will roll."

Mr. Norgate is a proper gentleman, and I'll never forget his advice. I know that what I've said isn't much in the way of advice, but know that we are all here to help each other in this grand endeavor that we call music. Best of luck, my friend! :)


If you have a moment, check out some of my work:

[Music here on Newgrounds] [Soundcloud]

BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-24 15:40:52


At 12/23/14 03:34 PM, jaysummers759885 wrote:
Bacon loves you,

~J

The Music industry in a nutshell. This is all you need to know. jaysummers wins 1 trillion ^ billion brownie points for this. And yes, you can use this to buy brownies just tell them I sent you.

PS everyone try to get along and don't deter ANYONE from their dream. Nobody got no right to do that. If Danny Elfman, or the ghost of Bach were to tell me to stop making music, I would tell them both to go fuck themselves.

Never stop creating.

Discord

Links

BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-24 16:05:20


At 12/24/14 03:40 PM, frootza wrote:
PS everyone try to get along and don't deter ANYONE from their dream. Nobody got no right to do that. If Danny Elfman, or the ghost of Bach were to tell me to stop making music, I would tell them both to go fuck themselves.

10/10 brought tears to my eyes


BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-26 03:20:06


Glad I'm getting a head start... I'm barely 13 and I'm lucky enough to have saved up and got FL Producer Edition... I'll find myself taking some notes.


I finally made a signature :D

BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-26 03:43:32


At 12/21/14 04:22 PM, FurryGod wrote: If you know anything about the music industry you would know electronic music is not marketable or popular. That tells me right there most of you are completely clueless.

don't know if your trolling, or you're really this stupid.
the whole "edm" scene has been marketing like shit lately. and a lot of electronic music is becoming popular.

sadly, it's just bigroom, that kind of stuff that is booming.

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-26 03:49:40


At 12/26/14 03:20 AM, SpeirMint wrote: Glad I'm getting a head start... I'm barely 13 and I'm lucky enough to have saved up and got FL Producer Edition... I'll find myself taking some notes.

*looks around*
you should consider some other daw's after you get enough experience with FL, just sayin'.

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-26 05:21:40


At 12/26/14 03:49 AM, w00tw00 wrote:
At 12/26/14 03:20 AM, SpeirMint wrote: Glad I'm getting a head start... I'm barely 13 and I'm lucky enough to have saved up and got FL Producer Edition... I'll find myself taking some notes.
*looks around*
you should consider some other daw's after you get enough experience with FL, just sayin'.

FL Studio is a fully competent DAW and there is essentially no reason for someone who gets comfortable with it to get another one. Picking DAWs is a matter of whether it suits your workflow or not and should not impact how one's music sounds significantly, so what you just said is quite misleading and could make the kid spend a lot of money on something they may not need.


SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/ryunocore

Need custom music or SFX for your project? http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1361543

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-26 17:19:29


At 12/26/14 03:48 PM, FurryGod wrote: Even if that was true, I have yet to hear one good EDM track on this site. They all sound terrible and the mixing is shit.

Perhaps your standards are too high.


BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-27 02:09:35


At 12/27/14 01:39 AM, FurryGod wrote: That's some of the best EDM, and it's mixed properly

In your opinion.

Electronic music is not easy to do.

It's actually VERY easy to compose electronic music.

How are you having fun if you're not doing what they're doing? I don't play basketball because I can't shoot hoops for shit, it is not fun. You have fun if you do something well on a high level, if not, then why are you doing it?

This proves you don't know what you're talking about. Even if I suck at something, I'll still do it because it's fun, and I enjoy doing it. Your argument is really feeble, and I'd be surprised if you managed to find people who agree with you.


BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2014-12-27 06:53:34


At 12/27/14 02:32 AM, FurryGod wrote: It's not even my opinion, I think anyone in their right mind would agree.

Ignorant of other people's opinions. -3.

No it's not, that's why you are terrible at what you do, because you think it's easy. Nothing good comes easy.

I compose music that I think is satisfactory, and I receive a lot of good feedback. Clearly, I'm NOT terrible. Good things CAN come easy. Are you trying to be wise? It's not working.

You don't do it for fun, which is what this thread is about, You're trying to make easy money. You're so ignorant about music you think it's easy to make, and that's sad.

I. COMPOSE. MUSIC. FOR. FUN. I want to continue making music, but if I want to continue putting my full potential into my hobby, I need to make it a career. Maybe they don't teach economics in middle school anymore, but I have to pay the bills SOMEHOW (money doesn't grow on trees, kid). I need to be making a steady income, so if I can make money from my music, I'm killing two birds with one stone. Also, this thread was more focused on where I should go EDUCATION-WISE.

Any real musician would agree with me, but they wouldn't come on here and waste their time.

Again, I don't think you get to decide who is a "real musician" and who is not. If you're saying that newgrounds audio artists are not REAL musicians, I suggest you go away and never come back, because you know absolutely nothing.

you're being awfully presumptuous for a user who has submitted many electronic tracks.

BBS Signature

Response to Music as a Career 2015-01-03 12:33:21


u can do anything u want, including making a living off of music or art, What makes good music?
What does good music sound like? That is for u to decide!

money is in live shows right now, since most music is free on the internet, now its about gaining fans and selling tickets, plus whatever u come up with, sponsorships, merchandise, illuminati affiliation, blah blah.

but really I think u had it right in the beginning, just focus on the music and people will be banging on ur door to get a performance from u or do a collab. of course its not all easygoing but how boring would that be? :)

much love and believe in urself!