At 4/18/11 08:41 AM, PeterSatera wrote: Well putting film makers wont make much of a difference, because they wont actually do the animation. Walt had a great eye for animation, but he wasnt much of an artist. Actually, all the big movies he made, he never animated in.

It would be just as complex as comparing male and female writers. Its impossible to make a good comparison whos better.

fair enough, although everyone else bar Walt in that quickly assembled list is an great artist.
if the answer lies in comparable films then men by sheer weight of numbers are more
proficient and better skilled... of course as you suggest in your previous post things are
begining to level out... I think the answer being sought here is what the state is presently
rather than what will the state be later when things have levelled out

so far as writing goes, I know that I have two female writers that I have enjoyed 'George Eliot'
and 'Sue Thompson' all the rest have been men so I must conclude that from my point of view
men are also better writers

take comedy too... how many notable comics/ comedy writers/ comedy actors are there?
men vs women.... again it's men. There is a reason for this and it isn't simply the old boy
network and sexism.

of course subject to the 'in the future when things are different' rule any comparisons can
be deemed bollocks

At 4/18/11 09:58 AM, MickHarrison wrote:

At 4/18/11 08:41 AM, PeterSatera wrote: Well putting film makers wont make much of a difference, because they wont actually do the animation. Walt had a great eye for animation, but he wasnt much of an artist. Actually, all the big movies he made, he never animated in.

It would be just as complex as comparing male and female writers. Its impossible to make a good comparison whos better.

fair enough, although everyone else bar Walt in that quickly assembled list is an great artist.
if the answer lies in comparable films then men by sheer weight of numbers are more
proficient and better skilled... of course as you suggest in your previous post things are
begining to level out... I think the answer being sought here is what the state is presently
rather than what will the state be later when things have levelled out

so far as writing goes, I know that I have two female writers that I have enjoyed 'George Eliot'
and 'Sue Thompson' all the rest have been men so I must conclude that from my point of view
men are also better writers

take comedy too... how many notable comics/ comedy writers/ comedy actors are there?
men vs women.... again it's men. There is a reason for this and it isn't simply the old boy
network and sexism.

of course subject to the 'in the future when things are different' rule any comparisons can
be deemed bollocks

again, you're comparing quantity over quality. The whole 'over the years this has been true' rule can be deemed just as bullockcious. sorry if we're not focusing on what was and what has been so. we'd like to focus more on here and now. I could just as easily say "over the past one hundred years, the us has manufactured more automobiles so American made cars are obviously better" but that wouldn't necessarily make it so. you have to look at it a little deeper than 'who have we seen more of' historically, men have been behind more of the film and animation industry because society has constrained the industry to be so. However, now, and in the past ten years, women have just as much of an opportunity to, and are, becoming more and more successful in these fields.... Walt disney? George Eliot, dude? try to stay a bit more current.

Glen Keane, Craig McCracken, David Feiss, Jhonen Vasquez, Joe Marray,
Nick Cross, Genndy Tartakovsky, Hayao Miyazaki, Tim Burton, John Lasseter, Bill Plympton.

these lads are current. I think maybe you would like people from this week? Or more specifically
this week and on newgrounds. They don't half get you to do some funny things for your money in
these colleges.

The question could be 'what the hell use will this project be when I try out for a job?'

A possible eue opener could be that I am sat in a studio right now with more females animating
than there are men so you may have something in the 'times are changing'

...couldn't really say quality wise who was better though

actually excuse me. I have the wrong end of the stick. I reread the opener to this thread
and it is pretty vague.
Perhaps if you could point out exactly where you have noticed that women compared with equally experienced men consistantly make better animations then we could have an actual starting point

So far as I can see men have produced more quantity of quality... my list is all men, they are the ones I have heard of apart from ... currently, Nina Paley (sita sings the blues). That kind of speaks for itself in my eyes

wait... i'm confused... what?
I don't know who any of these people are... In the beginning I was just saying that I noticed a trend. as the thread progressed, we agreed on the fact that wether or not the trend actually exists, females do typically animate differently. I, personally believe that this difference can be especially refreshing at times. but I guess that doesn't make them better. but now that we're name dropping I can't really keep up. as for giving a specific example. I cant. not entirely any way. a good comparison would be the first left for dead trailer and the dead island trailer ( see above) while both good, the DI trailer was way more emotionally compelling and likely more effective as a trailer, a fact which I couldn't help but contribute, at least partialy, to it's very skilled, but entirely female animation cast. could you explain some of the people you're naming? i kinda new to the industry. so I'm not familiar with these people.

ahh righto
I thought there was something amis, and if you don't know who ANY of those people are
then I think I can see what it is. So you are new to animation but already spotted this trend?

the lads i listed are explained a little further here

Glen Keane (legendary animator, albeit in what became the disney style beauty and the beast, tarzan) Craig McCracken (created the power puff girls and Fosters) , David Feiss (created cow and chicken... so far as I remember), Jhonen Vasquez (invader zim), Joe Marray (rockos modren life and currently creating fan funded show about a frog (?)),
Nick Cross (independent animator making music videos plus short highly acclaimed cartoons plus co creator of angora napkin), Genndy Tartakovsky (dexters laboratory and recent flop sym bionic titan), Hayao Miyazaki (the absolute hero of everyone), Tim Burton (you never heard of tim burton), John Lasseter (you would have to have been interested in animation for less than a week not to know this fella... he's kind of the head of pixar and the reason disney stopped making sequels every ten minutes), Bill Plympton (pure legend one man animation machine).

as i say, I know of only one female of reknown, if they were so much better how come no one knows who they are?

That is kind of why I would like to know, who these women are and what are the projects that illustrate their superior talents

oops
i should pay more attention.. you are refering to a trailer for a game????

we are on different pages and I really do not follow what you are talking about

never mind

you are wasting your breath mick, kid is basically saying he "noticed a trend" but knows nothing of animation, that voids all his speech

as for your list mick, i found i love most of those guys work, yet, ive never heard of tim burton, is that a type of food? maybe a model of dildo?

At 4/18/11 08:26 PM, Sacros wrote: you are wasting your breath mick, kid is basically saying he "noticed a trend" but knows nothing of animation, that voids all his speech

as for your list mick, i found i love most of those guys work, yet, ive never heard of tim burton, is that a type of food? maybe a model of dildo?

hey buddy, watch it. I'm a better animator than you. period. so stop flaming and quit talking shit okay? I've been animating for the better part of the last decade. so I know a lot about animation. I just don't know alot about the industry. I made this thread to learn more and get an idea of what people thought, and that's what I'm trying to do. so if you could just butt out and stop trolling for two seconds in you'r life, we would really appreciate it.

At 4/18/11 01:29 PM, MickHarrison wrote: ahh righto
I thought there was something amis, and if you don't know who ANY of those people are
then I think I can see what it is. So you are new to animation but already spotted this trend?

the lads i listed are explained a little further here

Glen Keane (legendary animator, albeit in what became the disney style beauty and the beast, tarzan) Craig McCracken (created the power puff girls and Fosters) , David Feiss (created cow and chicken... so far as I remember), Jhonen Vasquez (invader zim), Joe Marray (rockos modren life and currently creating fan funded show about a frog (?)),
Nick Cross (independent animator making music videos plus short highly acclaimed cartoons plus co creator of angora napkin), Genndy Tartakovsky (dexters laboratory and recent flop sym bionic titan), Hayao Miyazaki (the absolute hero of everyone), Tim Burton (you never heard of tim burton), John Lasseter (you would have to have been interested in animation for less than a week not to know this fella... he's kind of the head of pixar and the reason disney stopped making sequels every ten minutes), Bill Plympton (pure legend one man animation machine).

as i say, I know of only one female of reknown, if they were so much better how come no one knows who they are?

That is kind of why I would like to know, who these women are and what are the projects that illustrate their superior talents

okay I know who TIm burton is, I'm not stupid. I heard of Glen Keane, and I love Jhonen Vasquez, he was part of my inspiration to become an animator. And I know all the animatTIONS you're refering to. I'm just not good with names. so I'm not completely ignorant, I just need to do my homework. I've personally spoken to THE Andy Luck (he was one of the head guys up at pixar when they firs made toystory and he's the one after whome the main character is named) so I know a bit. just... the names, the names, the names.

At 4/18/11 08:38 PM, Arch-Angel wrote:

At 4/18/11 08:26 PM, Sacros wrote: you are wasting your breath mick, kid is basically saying he "noticed a trend" but knows nothing of animation, that voids all his speech

as for your list mick, i found i love most of those guys work, yet, ive never heard of tim burton, is that a type of food? maybe a model of dildo?

hey buddy, watch it. I'm a better animator than you. period. so stop flaming and quit talking shit okay? I've been animating for the better part of the last decade. so I know a lot about animation. I just don't know alot about the industry. I made this thread to learn more and get an idea of what people thought, and that's what I'm trying to do. so if you could just butt out and stop trolling for two seconds in you'r life, we would really appreciate it.

okay, that wasn't nice. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I'm just gonna go ahead and end this thread right here before I piss anyone off or make myself look even more ignorant. I just wanted to see if others saw the trend I was seeing or if it was just coincidence. and I guess it was just coincidence. I don't have the technical or factual knowledge to continue this. I'll have to do some serious research. but thank 's to everyone for a good discussion.

GIRLS ARE BETTER. HANDS DOWN.
GURLLZZ RULLEEE!

-lol jk. We can suck at animation just as much as dudes.

Yeah, but said before. This community is overrun by males. What you would need to do, is take the percentage of males that are good against all males, and then females who are good against all females here. But then again. that itself is flawed. As basically, the higher the number of people, the higher the chance that your going to get a large percentage of average animators.

Like...when we hear (im in the UK) America has the higher number of obese people than the UK. Of course they do! They have more people! I hate sh*t like that. So misinformed skewed perception. I started to write more on that, but i realised I was going way off topic. So. Delete.

Anywho...yeah, its petty hard to suggest who's better, I dont believe it comes down to sex. Unless your talking intercourse, then men fail radically there. As a typical man, I admit i'd drop all animation in a heartbeat.

lol

At 5/9/11 09:10 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
Anywho...yeah, its petty hard to suggest who's better, I dont believe it comes down to sex. Unless your talking intercourse, then men fail radically there.

speak for yourself there

At 5/10/11 11:02 PM, Sacros wrote:

At 5/9/11 09:10 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
Anywho...yeah, its petty hard to suggest who's better, I dont believe it comes down to sex. Unless your talking intercourse, then men fail radically there.

speak for yourself there

@Sacros: Why are you always so bitchy? Just lay back and forget the smart arse comments, people will like you better for it. Think them to yourself rather than expressing them.

I am not angry at all, but I am just telling you this before an opportunity of a lifetime may occur and you are rejected for your idosyncracy.

At 5/10/11 11:02 PM, Sacros wrote:

At 5/9/11 09:10 AM, PeterSatera wrote:
Anywho...yeah, its petty hard to suggest who's better, I dont believe it comes down to sex. Unless your talking intercourse, then men fail radically there. As a typical man, I admit i'd drop all animation in a heartbeat.

lol

speak for yourself there

Ahh i see, you would drop sex for doing an animation in a heartbeat. Well, i guess that sums you right up.
Welcome to civilisation and the internet. Where humour is part of social interation.

I highly doubt gender has anything to do with how good you are at animation.
One thing I noticed however is that girls approach animation/illustration a lil bit differently.

I doubt that there is any real difference in their natural ability, but I think it is quite likely that there is a difference in the actual results, especially as seen here on Newgrounds, since this is a generally male-orientated site, where scribbly flash is acceptable so long as it conforms to stereotypically male dominated themes with funny violence etc.

It is also rather difficult to know what sex everyone is here, since a number of the 'women' are actually men.

Saying women and men are the same at everything that doesn't have to do with the body isn't right as it's well known women care more about detail and often skip over the big picture and men tend to care more about the big picture and often misstep on details. Not saying every woman is better at details or every man is better at looking at the big picture but the patten is there in the welding field from what I've seen and heard.

I worked as a welder for a few years and went to school for it. Most female welders are better welders due to the fact that woman have a better eye for detail, giving a better weld, and women are better at keeping things more in order but men got the job done faster most the time.

But if you asked if a 100 men and a 100 women of the same skill level to set out and make the same walk I'd say they all would give you the same level of work but if you looked you'd see some parts of the walk are done better overall by the 100 females and some things were done better overall by the 100 male.

Writing is the same thing, male and female don't write the same but one isn't better then the other. (other then by someone's opinion)

Women and men don't view the world the same just like random person one and random person two don't view the world the same due to how they are raised, how they think, how they move, etc. All this effects how someone will do any one thing or many things.

Now that this overly long post is done I'm in the mood for some pancake bacon sandwich.

lol them mad

specially peter that openly admited failing at sex

YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT WE DO. VAGINA POWER.

I hope this answers your question

(The answer is actually no no and a thousand times NO. I've seen shit animation by ladies, millions and billions of times. Personally I find goofy anime-elf-furry fanfic edward x bella crud to be the female equivalent of all of those numerous "OMG my 1sd stick Anumashun"s produced by 11-12 year old males.

To be honest, I dabbled around in pivot-- and had some 'interest' in doing stick animations like xiao xiao and shit when I was 13 or so. But I eventually found stuff like that really tedious -- and wanted to go a more TV production/fine art route. Now I'm really interested in the web-- and sticking my nuts into HTML5 and stuff-- it's all a matter of taste and development. You could possibly blame it on the common state of mine men seem to share-- to work with what you're given with-- and to not crave more more more more like a woman usually does.

For instance, a kid dicking around in pivot at 13 will probably be dicking around in it for a while. Maybe a couple of years or so. A woman, on the other hand-- would probably eventually move onto something else in a shorter period. That sounds like a brash assumption-- and everyone is different and might not fit that mold. But a woman's mind is usually way more active at ANY point in time than a man's brain is.

[ by active, I don't mean smarter-- what I've read, our juices are flowing at a faster rate, and the language managing section of the brain is larger than a male's-- which explains why women usually 'overthink' things]

I mention this because women-- right off the bat-- attempt to 'get it right' on the first try. Chicks 'll draw an anatomically correct version of Brad Pitt half naked before a guy draws ALL of megan fox, and not just her tits and vag. There's a wee bit of obsessive tenancies in this too-- which fits the mold of animation very well, I guess)

TL; DR: Women are used to cooking and cleaning-- so animation is just another slave ship higher than that.

God created us all equally. How we develop past that changes with our experiences, background, and perspective on a situation. Other than that, most of everything stated is a stereotype, much like everything is in society.

At 5/14/11 01:05 AM, Sacros wrote: lol them mad

specially peter that openly admited failing at sex

You fail at reading. Lol! I never wrote that. Now go practice animating as youre the percentage of crap that brings the male talent down.

Loser.

At 5/14/11 05:13 PM, PeterSatera wrote:

At 5/14/11 01:05 AM, Sacros wrote: lol them mad

specially peter that openly admited failing at sex

You fail at reading. Lol! I never wrote that. Now go practice animating as youre the percentage of crap that brings the male talent down.

Loser.

please stop feeding the troll.

At 5/14/11 09:29 PM, Arch-Angel wrote:

At 5/14/11 05:13 PM, PeterSatera wrote:

At 5/14/11 01:05 AM, Sacros wrote: lol them mad

specially peter that openly admited failing at sex

You fail at reading. Lol! I never wrote that. Now go practice animating as youre the percentage of crap that brings the male talent down.

Loser.

please stop feeding the troll.

He's practiscing for his latest collab, Troll Physics collab 2. (No joke). But yes, if you would like to continue this argument, start a new thread, haha.

At 5/15/11 01:02 AM, SketchyEntertainment wrote:
...if you would like to continue this argument, start a new thread, haha.

the sad thing is that I don't! I wanted this thread to die weeks ago, lol.

At 5/15/11 01:47 AM, Arch-Angel wrote:

At 5/15/11 01:02 AM, SketchyEntertainment wrote:
...if you would like to continue this argument, start a new thread, haha.

the sad thing is that I don't! I wanted this thread to die weeks ago, lol.

Have you asked a mod to delete it?

Yeah i think we've ran this convo to its full debate, :)

At 5/15/11 02:07 AM, SketchyEntertainment wrote:

At 5/15/11 01:47 AM, Arch-Angel wrote:

At 5/15/11 01:02 AM, SketchyEntertainment wrote:
...if you would like to continue this argument, start a new thread, haha.

the sad thing is that I don't! I wanted this thread to die weeks ago, lol.

Have you asked a mod to delete it?

well... now it's starting to amuse me... so i figure i'll see where it goes.
I think at this point we've established that girls tend to animated differently, and exhibit different artistic tendencies, but are not necessarily better. beyond that, I don't thing any more intellectual discussion will really come from this. but by all means, this is the internet! that shouldn't stop ppl from posting anyway!

It's all about determination and not being lazy. Guys tend to be more lazy, so there you have it.