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I'm currently studying animation at a design university in Philadelphia. and the more animated material I watch, either here on newgrounds, or from my classmates, the more I start to see this trend. It's begining to become apparent that female animators will, on average, consistently produce a higher quality of work than a male animator of equal experience and talent. I'm not saying this absolutely true all the time, but If you take an average of all the animations on newgrounds done by males (including all the "my first animation stick fight dot ess doubleyou eff") and all the animation done by female's . while there are far less of the later than the former, on average it just become's apparent that girls put more time, though, and effort into their work.

Has anyone else observed this trend? I'm not sure why it exists but I have some Ideas. It could have something to do with the fact that females put take more time to refine their work: qualities such as perfectionism, time management, self criticism, and attention to details, traits more commonly associated with females, are also crucial to successful animation design. this is not to say a male animator could not produce work as good as or better than a female, but I have a feeling the previously mentioned characteristics must be learned and refined over time in males while they are instinctively recognized, if know in females (it might have something to do with maternal instincts or something, i dunno I'm a dude.) Also, I have observed that males in general are more easily amused than females. A video game reference, a couple well written lines, a sexual joke, and some strategically placed violence, are usually enough to me me laugh at a flash movie. And I assume its true for many others because that's a large amount (not all) of what ends up on the front page. If I show some of my male friends such a flash animation, it's usually enough to make them laugh, however If i try to share that same animation with a female friend, a head shake or a mildly amused smile is usually all that I get out of them. So I feel like female animators tend to have a more... sophisticated sense of humor.

But aside from the writing or jokes, females seem to produce higher quality animations in general, relying less on humor to tell a story and more on cinematography and actual animation. not always but in general.

What do you think? Do you agree? Disagree? Why? I really want to hear from everyone on this. Is anyone else noticing this? or is it just me?

No, I disagree. Your sex has nothing to do with your skill at animating. I have seen males better at animating than females, and females better at animating than males. There are just fewer female animators I have seen.

your right, but take a look at the number of flashes that hit the portal. females do submit a fewer amount in general, but the ratio of female-made animations that are good vs female-made anims that are bad, is much greater than the ratio of male-made animations that are good vs male-mad animations that are bad. so it would seem.

I'm not arguing that females are instinctively better at animation than males, what I'm arguing is that there is a trend suggesting that a female is statistically less likely to make a bad animation, i think it will require more research.

oh and I'm not referring to art in general, just animation in this case.

I invite people to research this with me... if you find it of interest.

This "females better at animation" is a stereotype, and the portal isn't the big place for flash animations. Newgrounds is highly populated in males. Go to deviant art, there are quite a few more females there, and quite a few of them are not terribly good.

In other words, just because I have dangly junk doesn't mean my animation/humor skills are stunted. ;-*

Females trend slightly DIFFERENT but not better. We are equal. At least in my opinion. y'know XD

sorry to double post, disregard my last one, but pourqoi? Does it really matter the ratio of Females to Males? For all you know every submission posted by a female could be good, but it really doesn't matter because your sex doesn't matter. It would all be coincidence. IMO, of course

alright, I totally agree a male animator can be just as good as a female animator, and vise versa. But i disagree with the fact that gender has no effect at all on artisitc style choices (not overall abilities). The simple fact remains that there ARE Definitive, recognizable psychological differences between men and women. to say there are not would be foolishness. women and men think differently. In art, these inherent psychological differences tend to manifest themselves in often noticeable differences in artistic paradigms, subject and style choices. I am not suggesting that us dudes cant animate, what I am suggesting is that perhaps some of the inherent psychological characteristics of the female mind might give them a slight advantage in animation... this would explain any trends that exist.

I having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to say. I thougt the topic title "Do Girls Tend 2 B Better Animators?" would attract attention but it kind of leads people to misunderstand the extent to which i was refering.

I never said anyone was getting blown out of the water. If you check out deviant art, or even professional films. females sometimes display smoother character animation, more thoughtful character design, better color theory, and back grounds. NOT ALWAYS but SOMETIMES. enough at least to make me wonder. especially with character design.

in the real industry, (at least at my school) there are WAY more female animators than here on NG (speaking percentage wise) so just because they don't get front page all the time, doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I just kinda saw a trend. I wont really be able to back it up unti I get some hard data. but I'm working on that. i'm still open to more arguments.

At 4/13/11 11:49 PM, Arch-Angel wrote: alright, I totally agree a male animator can be just as good as a female animator, and vise versa. But i disagree with the fact that gender has no effect at all on artisitc style choices (not overall abilities). The simple fact remains that there ARE Definitive, recognizable psychological differences between men and women.

and that is my point! They make you make different animations, and not better! :D

At 4/14/11 08:42 AM, someplaceelse wrote:

At 4/13/11 11:49 PM, Arch-Angel wrote: alright, I totally agree a male animator can be just as good as a female animator, and vise versa. But i disagree with the fact that gender has no effect at all on artisitc style choices (not overall abilities). The simple fact remains that there ARE Definitive, recognizable psychological differences between men and women.

and that is my point! They make you make different animations, and not better! :D

Exactly! they are different! and in this discussion I'm trying to explore what these differences and see what effect they have on the animation design process, if any. so can we start to explore some of the differences first? what makes an animation by a female different than one by a male? "better" was the wrong choice of wording. what are some of the differences?

I've noticed that a lot of female animators seem to have a softer more smooth or even elegant flow to their animation. But I mean, nothing is set in stone as stated dozens of times before this. It's the same as how a lot of french artists have this very sensual sexy feel to their work, and anime can often have this flashy kick ass feel to it. Lots of time you can look at art and get general ideas about the artist(s) just form seeing it. That is one of the things that makes art so wonderful imo. ^_^

so instead of "Do girls tend 2 B better aniamtors?"
it should be "Do girls come up with different ideas?"

And yes they do. I can't describe the difference; there is a difference between us individuals in general and we very to much. XD

At 4/14/11 08:09 PM, someplaceelse wrote: so instead of "Do girls tend 2 B better aniamtors?"
it should be "Do girls come up with different ideas?"

And yes they do. I can't describe the difference; there is a difference between us individuals in general and we very to much. XD

Haha yeah probably, but that title wouln't fit in the topic title space XP it only gives you 35 characters for a title.

anyway, that makes sense. There are definitely differences though, like I think girls tend to animate a little smoother and guys little faster. or something like that. I guess it was just interesting to think about, as someone who's going to try to become a professional animator, I figured I'd see id you guys noticed anything like that.

I'd like to see a girl-made madness flash, lol. that might be interesting.

Artistic talent is either natural from the way one is raised or gained through practice. For example, if one's parents have them doing creative and artistic things vs. math and reading they will be "right brain dominant" and naturally artistic. Obviously, if one is raised this way they will also get practice making them even better.

Science.

are females better animators?

you asking seriously? sex has nothing to do with any of that shit, ARTISTIC SKILLS DO (and being artistically successful involves all the traits you mentioned or NOT, since art is supposed to be subjective) so stop thinking in dicks and pussies because it has nothing to with the matter

so if you want to improve YOUR artistic skills then my advice is to rule out surgically changing your sex while taking female hormones

practice works way better

maybe cunnislingus would work too

At 4/15/11 10:55 PM, Sacros wrote: are females better animators?

you asking seriously? sex has nothing to do with any of that shit, ARTISTIC SKILLS DO (and being artistically successful involves all the traits you mentioned or NOT, since art is supposed to be subjective) so stop thinking in dicks and pussies because it has nothing to with the matter

so if you want to improve YOUR artistic skills then my advice is to rule out surgically changing your sex while taking female hormones

practice works way better

maybe cunnislingus would work too

hey everybody look! this guy didn't read the discussion before posting. lol I love it when ignorant people rage and completely disregard the entire discussion just to throw in their own opinion

At 4/13/11 06:27 PM, Arch-Angel wrote: What do you think? Do you agree? Disagree? Why? I really want to hear from everyone on this. Is anyone else noticing this? or is it just me?

To return to the original question at hand, I'd have to disagree that females tend to put more work in and are possibly better animators. Its always down to the individual. The problem is, your discussing online flash animation and not animators in general. In my proffession where we see about 100 animators every year with the degree going up to honors (4 years) I have seen a great mix of two. I've seen girls who are excellent, and guys who are excellent.

The better character animators tend to be the better observers, the ones that actively study movement in a person. However we also find that guys take to a 3D environment much quicker than females. This is not a sexist remark, but a university fact, showing that girls find working within 3 axis XYZ find it harder to animate in. However, you could combat this with the debate of industry. As at one point, all the Animators at Axis Animation (recently produced the Cinematic Trailer for Dead Island) were all female. To my knowledge though this is no longer the case, as they all work on 6 month contracts. However you could combat this by looking back at disney days. When Sleeping Beauty was created, which is still suggested to be the visual peak of walt disney films. When he accepted nothing other than perfection (almost bankrupting him). It was completed using draftsmen, who were all male.

These days its neither, even though its supposedly shown through my work that males have an apptitude for the 3D environment, there is nothing to suggest a female cannot rise to the same or high levels. Artistry and being able to observe and learn from that observation by breaking down movement is what makes a person a strong animator. If the person has the drive and the patience then this will always benefit them.

Well, we have to admit that because of our good friend evolution, women tend to see 30% more colors than us men, but we have a better ability detecting perspective and movement (just think about the old days: Men went hunting while women had to collect food; it's evolution baby)
I don't think this special ability could make them better in animation, but makes them focus more in some other aspects that we are unable to. Since ancient time they had to be careful with what they did, what they gave to their family, and they had to please men or they were death (in some cultures at least). So, this feeling of trying to make something as good as possible is maybe the reason of why they might tend to be better: maybe we have the same ability, but they make it more beautiful than us.

yes, definitely girls make better animations than fellas

I still think sex doesn't matter.

You seem to imply that women are a different species than men. If they had the gene that gave them a knack for color and art, then that gene would have been passed down to the offspring no matter what sex the were. Hey, I love color more than you could imagine. I would love it just as much as a girl too. It simply doesn't matter. Also guys have the motivation to impress too. I know I do. This is all my opinion though. XD

At 4/14/11 01:04 AM, Arch-Angel wrote: I having a hard time explaining what I'm trying to say. I thougt the topic title "Do Girls Tend 2 B Better Animators?" would attract attention but it kind of leads people to misunderstand the extent to which i was refering.

I never said anyone was getting blown out of the water. If you check out deviant art, or even professional films. females sometimes display smoother character animation, more thoughtful character design, better color theory, and back grounds. NOT ALWAYS but SOMETIMES. enough at least to make me wonder. especially with character design.

in the real industry, (at least at my school) there are WAY more female animators than here on NG (speaking percentage wise) so just because they don't get front page all the time, doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I just kinda saw a trend. I wont really be able to back it up unti I get some hard data. but I'm working on that. i'm still open to more arguments.

why should i care about the previous discussion, i just gave my opinion and im definetly not raging over your retarded genre thread, just telling you: your retarded question is retarded since sex doesnt matter, i just think you are some underage fag who cant stop thinking in terms of dicks and pussies, so ill reinforce my position once more: take all those dicks out of your hormonated preteen mind cuz what you have between your legs doesnt matter in art

At 4/16/11 09:05 AM, PeterSatera wrote:

At 4/13/11 06:27 PM, Arch-Angel wrote: What do you think? Do you agree? Disagree? Why? I really want to hear from everyone on this. Is anyone else noticing this? or is it just me?

To return to the original question at hand, I'd have to disagree that females tend to put more work in and are possibly better animators. Its always down to the individual. The problem is, your discussing online flash animation and not animators in general. In my proffession where we see about 100 animators every year with the degree going up to honors (4 years) I have seen a great mix of two. I've seen girls who are excellent, and guys who are excellent.

The better character animators tend to be the better observers, the ones that actively study movement in a person. However we also find that guys take to a 3D environment much quicker than females. This is not a sexist remark, but a university fact, showing that girls find working within 3 axis XYZ find it harder to animate in. However, you could combat this with the debate of industry. As at one point, all the Animators at Axis Animation (recently produced the Cinematic Trailer for Dead Island) were all female. To my knowledge though this is no longer the case, as they all work on 6 month contracts. However you could combat this by looking back at disney days. When Sleeping Beauty was created, which is still suggested to be the visual peak of walt disney films. When he accepted nothing other than perfection (almost bankrupting him). It was completed using draftsmen, who were all male.

These days its neither, even though its supposedly shown through my work that males have an apptitude for the 3D environment, there is nothing to suggest a female cannot rise to the same or high levels. Artistry and being able to observe and learn from that observation by breaking down movement is what makes a person a strong animator. If the person has the drive and the patience then this will always benefit them.

I didn't know that about the dead island trailer... but now that I think about it, it doesn't really surprise me, because where most zombie trailers are mostly cinematic violence and gore made to get the viewer hyped up and ready to play the game, that one really had a profound emotional effect on the viewer by the end I felt more depressed than psyched up like i did at the end of the first L4D trailer (which was still awesome no doubt) but still... if you haven't seen it yet, you can find it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ialZcLaI1 7Y

I guess that's kind of an example of what i'm saying. Women might not necessarily be "better" at animation, but they definitely often go about it differently. thanks for your input, it looks like people are actually starting to discuss this seriously.

At 4/13/11 08:14 PM, someplaceelse wrote: No, I disagree. Your sex has nothing to do with your skill at animating. I have seen males better at animating than females, and females better at animating than males. There are just fewer female animators I have seen.

i agree..... all i know is that i CAN'T do animation LOL

At 4/17/11 01:28 AM, Arch-Angel wrote: I guess that's kind of an example of what i'm saying. Women might not necessarily be "better" at animation, but they definitely often go about it differently. thanks for your input, it looks like people are actually starting to discuss this seriously.

No problem. It's an interesting debate, however one that I doubt can be put down to male or female. But i must stress that we tend to get better presight from females, such as being able to plan an animation in preproduction with a Brief/Treatment, script, concepts and storyboard. Guys tend to be desperate to rush things in and want to get the project going. Guys though tend to love, thrive on competition, but sometimes not in a bad way. When I did my degree in Animation we loved the competition against eachother, but we were all great mates, and helped each other out. Due to this guys tend to come out on top (what ive seen here anyway in last 5 years of teaching). Saying that it changes from year to year. One year I could pick out a single girl when it came to 2D animation who could blow the rest out of the water, however now that they have moved over to 3D she is just as strong as many other of the males in 3D animation. This year, in 2D Animation we have a guy who is really picking up the principles of animation and grasping them very well. So this year I could easily point out the best in the class, and it would be male.

So I say that, they may approach projects differently, whether its for Industry, Education or Recreational use it doesnt necessarily make the time and approach better, because where one person is good at one area, another has their strengths in the same medium. Animation like art is so subjective, there's no real right or wrong way. Guys can be as clean of artists as girls, and girls can be just as messy as guys.

To show proof in the pudding. Im a very clean animator. I do line tests and traditional animation with digital clean up. I started off wanting to be a court artist who did portraiture and real life recreation. My girlfriend on the other hand is far more expressive, and loves gathering all sorts of crazy materials to paint and create art with. Her digital work is somewhat more controlled now. Her animation is very representative of her style, being expressive. Saying that, she has moved onto vector work more so making her learn cleaner styles. So it shows that good artists and animators can adapt to the style at hand, and therefore cant really be better than eachother. It's quite interesting how tastes can collide yet work...she thinks Van Gogh is amazing and I think he's a pile of ****. However, I appreciate that she has different tastes and techniques that I do, and we dont get insulted by it. We laugh it off. After all...as I said, its subjective.

maybe putting all the names of the good MALE cartoonists/ animators/ film makers
into a list and compare it with the names of all the good FEMALE cartoonists/ animators/ film makers
(not all of them obviously, just the ones that you have heard of or who have made cartoons etc
that you may have seen)... people like Glen Keane, Ward Kimble, Bob Godfrey, Walt Disney, Ub Iwerks,
Craig McCracken, Matt Groening, John K, Chuck Jones, David Feiss, Jhonen Vasquez, Joe Marray,
Nick Cross, Genndy Tartakovsky, Hayao Miyazaki, Tim Burton, John Lasseter, Tex Avery, Bill Plympton...........

head for head I reckon you are looking at something like a 80/ 20 split in favour of men

this may be too succinct so feel free to copy and paste a load of waffle in after the dots

.....

At 4/17/11 09:46 AM, MickHarrison wrote:

head for head I reckon you are looking at something like a 80/ 20 split in favour of men

this may be too succinct so feel free to copy and paste a load of waffle in after the dots

.....

I don't thinks that's quite a fair comparison... just because there are MORE male animators doesn't mean that males in general are better. that just means that less females tend to do animation. nowadays, it's really starting to even out.

High five ! I totally agree. And think of what a boring world it would be if there were barely any females who shared the same interest as you or I.

who cares, it makes no difference.

At 4/17/11 10:52 PM, King-Rat wrote: who cares, it makes no difference.

what was the point of this post? do you have anything to contribute to this discussion?

Well putting film makers wont make much of a difference, because they wont actually do the animation. Walt had a great eye for animation, but he wasnt much of an artist. Actually, all the big movies he made, he never animated in.

It would be just as complex as comparing male and female writers. Its impossible to make a good comparison whos better.