What Makes A Good Defense Game ?

[PvtAntoine]

I've been working on a solo project for the last month now and it's going really well, the biggest part of work is done and I'm glad of the result so far. I'm actually working on a space invasion defense game, I know, it sounds boring and not so original but that's the point of posting this thread, I wan't to know what you guys appreciate from defense games.

Things I would like to know :

What's keeping you playing and playing ?

What kind of enemies would be great challengers ?

What's the right difficulty ?

What are the most annoying things in defense games ?

[PvtAntoine]

In addition of what I've posted before, if you have any propositions for a music loop for the game, please let me know, I'd appreciate and I'd take a look.
I've already looked in the audio portal, but still can't find the right loop, the one that fits perfectly !

[Re2deemer]

At 1/15/09 12:22 PM, PvtAntoine wrote: In addition of what I've posted before, if you have any propositions for a music loop for the game, please let me know, I'd appreciate and I'd take a look.
I've already looked in the audio portal, but still can't find the right loop, the one that fits perfectly !

For that you're gonna need someone that knows the mood and gameplay, otherwise giving adequate music advice is tricky.

[PvtAntoine]

mmm.. that's right, it would be a lot easier with some descriptions.
well, the action takes place in outer space where you're surrounded by some alien-like ships, I'd say that the ambiance is a bit like the good old Starcraft.

Here's a screenshot of what it looks so far...

[Re2deemer]

Well, it also depends on how fast-(slow-?)paced the game is. And if you want it to be just a timewaster game or something beyond.
In case of a slow game, a loop cut from either the middle of Depths of Evil (1:25 and onwards) ....or maybe - Dungeon of Deceit -. Altenatively, a loop from Phoenix Chronicles 5 or 6 (by Draqo) might do the trick.

Faster paced one might benefit from the tunes of Waterflame. Maybe an extract form -Radioactive-....Or perhaps -Afterburners-

Eh, 'nuff. Can't be arsed digging no more for now.

[PvtAntoine]

The first two ones are great, but I don't think that's what I need. Considering the speed of the game wich is probably an average-fast game, -Radioactive-and -Afterburners- could be interesting options, I'll keep them in mind !

Thanks for your suggestions

[patu1]

That looks nice =]
the key to any good game in every genre is:
good art
good script
something unique about it
good luck =]

[PvtAntoine]

I guess the key to success is a not too easy/not too hard gameplay, a background music that doesn't get too annyoing and bunch of crazy enemies that keeps surpising you...

What are your key elements ?

[GustTheASGuy]

Gameplay feedback (shiny effects, leveling up). http://www.kongregate.com/games/dz2001/m omentum-missile-mayhem-3

[PvtAntoine]

I'm taking notes, I'll add more Upgrades/Levels, what about special items ? I think it'd be great to have bombs and stuff to help you through this massive invasion

[PvtAntoine]

I looked a bit into the audio portal and I found some music that could be interesting for a good galactic battle ambiance.

([Eigus - Lunar Sunset]) - by - DrDIL

NightlifeDL - DukeLukeProd

Juncture - by - LeftHandPunk

What do you think ?

[kris008]

one of my fave things about defence games is upgrades...not those shitty upgrades where you just keep clicking upgrade untill its fully upgraded, but all that changes is the stats.
what i mean is you buy somthing new and then you can perchace upgrades for that particular thing e.g. extra guns, armour, paint, shield, etc...but when you purchace an upgrade for that item you can actually see then added onto it. i love that kinda stuff.
and the more customizables and upgrades in the game the better in my opinion, the bigger the 'shop' is the better! the most important thing for me in a defence game.

[PvtAntoine]

yeah that's right, good, you made a good point. I'll try to introduce some sort of customizable add-ons such as laser turrets, shields and more other stuff.

Thanks

[Kembry]

My opinion.
I don`t like all those space defenders, they are boring.
I like old defenders, with castles and upgrades and interesting drawings.

[PvtAntoine]

What's a good old defender ? A game with nothing more than nice drawn castles ?

[ColdLogic]

dont listen to him space ones are the best lol, meh i guess theyre both exactly the same thing with a difference of graphics, if your interested in any 3D art I could post something. maybe pull some of the workload off your upgrade graphic pics or something.

Im working on a similar game right now, except is more of a topdown shooter, your a ship that moves with different hulls, turrets etc collectables,

anyway all Id like to see is new stuff, like upgrades powers, lots of explosions, i really thought that new game um forget what it was called but you were an archer and you put together runes to make spells thought that was original.

[PvtAntoine]

yeah, I'm working really hard on this game to make it original and attractive because it doesn't worth spending so much time on a game that won't be played or liked.

thanks for your comment

[Chippythechipmonk]

You should put in multiple weapons, many upgrades (they are best if they change both the physical appearance of the upgraded aspect of the game, as well as the gameplay.), and occasional bosses.

Thats all I have to say.

[PvtAntoine]

Bosses, forgot these ! ahah I'll add this to my "to do" list!

Thanks

[doctormellow]

What makes your game original? That no other game has. That should help. And if it doesn't, then you might need to implement a few more unique ideas in there.

[WavyGravy]

Judging from your screenshot, it looks to be a promising and stellar game! I do enjoy a bit of space defense everyone once in a moon so I'll voice my opinion on this.

At 1/15/09 12:10 PM, PvtAntoine wrote: I've been working on a solo project for the last month now and it's going really well, the biggest part of work is done and I'm glad of the result so far. I'm actually working on a space invasion defense game, I know, it sounds boring and not so original but that's the point of posting this thread, I wan't to know what you guys appreciate from defense games.

Things I would like to know :

What's keeping you playing and playing ?

For me, its the sense of accomplishment + discovering "upgrades". There could even be mix rounds say..climaxing toward the end of the level (survive for X minutes, defeat X amount of enemies,etc.) it's really all boils down to replay value, and gameplay mechanics.

What kind of enemies would be great challengers ?

I understand if enemies are typically making a B-line to the fortress, but if you could somehow program the enemies to move in a orthodox manner (zigzag, circling the perimeter,etc) that would make for a uncanny challenge. Other challenging foes could force you to move through the type of enemy firepower to even an small "area of effect" that you must dodge. But I believe, its is the bosses that makes for a great challenge.

What's the right difficulty ?

This will depend but if you can get some beta testers to give you some feedback, you might be able to get a general feel of the pace. I feel starting off without feeling overwhelmed makes for a enjoyable experience.

What are the most annoying things in defense games ?

Hmm, probably if the gameplay mechanics are all awry, say no collision detection. Or if the gameplay felt stale and unrewarding.

At 1/15/09 06:38 PM, kris008 wrote: what i mean is you buy somthing new and then you can perchace upgrades for that particular thing e.g. extra guns, armour, paint, shield, etc...but when you purchace an upgrade for that item you can actually see then added onto it. i love that kinda stuff.
and the more customizables and upgrades in the game the better in my opinion, the bigger the 'shop' is the better! the most important thing for me in a defence game.

I have to agree with the points he made. In addition, i think perhaps gamers are looking for diversification in weapons, armour, abilities(?). Giving the player the option of choice. Of course, all of this would give only give you a bigger list-to-do. So please do be careful of "biting off too much for you to chew." Cheers, and good luck on your production.

[PvtAntoine]

Wow, this is from far the best comment I ever had ! This is exactly what I expected, you answered all my questions and it's great because I need to know where to put all my efforts and determinate what's good for the gameplay.

I'll probably post a beta in the next few days so everybody can watch the progress and tell me what to improve or remove.

Thank you for your support

[IggyZuk]

Well i really agree with what kris008 said... its all about the Turrets you build so you should appreciate them the most ;P

other than that looks good man! keep up the good work ;D

[darklight500]

IMO, as far as i can see, you're doing a great job already! Some things i like in it though is a slightly larger FOV, so you don't feel "confined" into a 2x4 box, but instead having enough room to stratagize. Also, upgrades should have a meaning, having too much upgrades just for the sake of it results mostly in certain upgrades being redundant or overpowered. Apart to this, i agree with the >So you can see the upgrades on your turret<a rgument. For a suggestion on an upgrade, a laser (not main weapon) mounted on that charges at a slow rate, but fires a big beam with big damage, may need to scale when the game progress to keep it usefull. AI turrets are also an interesting addition to the game. If you want something unique, you could make a power schematic, which allows you to see the diffrent subsystems, and draw more power to for example the lasers to make them more powerfull, or draw more power to the AI system so they get more clever and more powerful too. Maybe even a damage system to those subsystems? Make sure that they don't get annoying in the way of the pacing of the game (systems being too weak/too strong to withstand anything.

To sum it up:

-> Good FOV (Field Of View)
-> Balance amount and usefulness of upgrades
-> Visual treats on what upgrades you bought, being able to see them on your turret
-> Weapon suggestion: A laser (not main weapon) which charges slowley but fires a big damaging laser, may be activated with the spacebar for example, make sure it scales when the game progresses, so it's still usefull
-> AI turrets
-> Power schematic: Drawing more or less power from a subsystem makes it more/less powerfull or usefull, make this a core part of the gameplay if you do, instead of a gimmick.
-> Addition to the Power schematic: damaging subsystem, making them less usefull and not able to draw 100 percent of the power it gets, make sure this system does not get in the way of the pacing of the game, making it too weak/strong to enemy attacks.

Hope this help.

[thetimeangel]

For music: you could put something like this for the "menu"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjA5faZF1 A8
from 0.22 to 1:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zmdBeWd3 gw
the 0:35 + part is good for menu (not the one seen in the video, i mean the main menu)
And maybe for the game (just maybe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY2Ugpst9 VY (could be useful for the menus tough) (0:25 to 2)
from the audio portal this would be nice for the menu
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/2 01210 from 0:00 to 0:43

In a defense game, i like: Different towers, lots of types of enemies, a nice scenario, and nice upgrades (look changes are great). Also , not the simple "Rock-Scissors-Paper" system, but something more "innovative" (you need more than 1 type of tower to beat certain enemies).

PD:If you don't like my musical choices is OK, it's just my opinion :D so people don't start saying "THOSE SONGS SUCKS"

[PvtAntoine]

I'm trying to put all this in order and dress a list of what is most important going down to what is less important. So, it goes like this :

- Make events/bosses to keep the sense of accomplishement through all the game
- Make lots of different enemies with different attacks and make them apppear one by one during the game so the players is always surprised by a new type of nasty bastard.
- MANY upgrades that appears on screen (mostly turrets..)
- Additionnal collectible items to alternate the way you kill enemies
- Rankings and achievements (wich are almost pretty done yet)

So this is what I'm trying to work on from now on, don't hesitate to propose something you think would be a priority, just let me know.

[fjgamer]

I was designing a defense game but found it boring to play. I think a good defense game introduces an extra layer of gameplay, like a minigame, to unlock more advantages. For example, maybe the towers could shoot super-bullet projectiles if you win at a slots minigame.

Other than that, i don't think there's much you could do to mix things up. Upgrades are a nice way to keep the player busy, but they don't make the game any more fun. You need new gameplay elements.

[PvtAntoine]

very interesting, you're introducing luck instead of skills, maybe I could use this a bit, you know maybe your turrent could have some mechanical problem and suddenly just BLOW UP ! ..or maybe just overheat and can't fire for x seconds... whatcha think ?

[darklight500]

At 1/16/09 02:50 PM, PvtAntoine wrote: I'm trying to put all this in order and dress a list of what is most important going down to what is less important. So, it goes like this :

<Suggestions>

So this is what I'm trying to work on from now on, don't hesitate to propose something you think would be a priority, just let me know.

What about my suggestions, is there any place for them, or is the game in a too far stage to implent them?

[fluffkomix]

good defense game =

upgrades
not too hard
different difficulty levels
wide range of enemies
usability
maybe different maps. or like Mastermind WC did and you can change your map during the game

but that's just me. different people like different things.