Canada actually has an army!

[RedScorpion]

Ok, I know that there has been alot of jokes about 'how Canada doesn't have an army', or 'We use slingshots to fight!' - yes, they are funny - but we actually do have a competent military force. Just recently an increase in budget for military budget was approved, and our military strength should rise, as it seems to be an issue with most political leaders here. Of course, we do not expect to compete with the US in terms of overall strength, but we both train with each other regularly, and are more closely knit than some may initially think. On to the numbers! :)

Now, in terms of numbers, we rank approxiametly 60th in all countries. Considering we only do have 33 million people, this is not bad. To give you a comparison, we have about the same amount as Australia. We have 62,300 soldiers in the Armed Forces, and about 65,000 in cadets - and we now spend $12.9 billion dollars on the military, or about 1.1% of the GNP.

For our operations...

'The Canadian Forces or its component regiments have fought in the War of 1812, the Fenian Raids (1866-1871), North-West Rebellion (1885), the Boer War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the First Gulf War, and have contributed to UN and other peacekeeping missions and undeclared wars, notably the Suez Crisis, Cyprus, Croatia, Bosnia, and the War on Terrorism (Afghanistan). Canada is a charter member of NATO and a member of the North American Air Defence treaty (NORAD).

Battles which are particularly notable to the Canadian military include the Battle of Vimy Ridge in World War I and, in World War II, the Dieppe Raid, the Battle of Ortona, the Normandy Landings, the Battle of the Scheldt, the Battle of Britain, the Battle of the Atlantic, and the strategic bombing of German cities. At the end of World War II Norway and the part of the Netherlands North of the rivers Rhine and Lek were liberated almost solely by the Canadian Forces from the Nazi-German occupying forces. After restoring law and order they left the countries within several months.

Since 1947, the CF has undertaken 73 operations worldwide. In 2002, nearly 3000 Canadian troops were on active duty in 11 additional operations including the international war on terrorism in Afghanistan and the NATO stabilization force (SFOR) in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Canadian regular and reserve troops are a visible and respected force at home as well. In 2001 alone, the Canadian Forces responded to more than 8,000 search and rescue incidents and helped to save more than 4,500 lives.'

Actually, it has been only untill after the Cold War did we lose a substanstial amount of soldiers...

Postwar developments
At the end of World War II, Canada possessed the third-largest navy and fourth-largest air force in the world, as well as the largest volunteer army ever fielded (conscription for overseas service was introduced only near the end of the war, and only 2400 conscripts actually made it into battle). Defence spending and personnel remained high during the early years of Cold War, but began to decline in the 1960s and 1970s as the perceived threat from the Warsaw Pact diminished. Throughout the 1990s, successive budget cuts forced further reductions in the personnel, number of bases, and fighting ability of the Canadian Forces. Sizable Canadian air and land forces were maintained in West Germany under NATO command from the end of World War II until the early 1990s.

Currently, our equipment consists of these various vehicles.

Land Force Command
Main Battle Tanks 114 Leopard MBT
Infantry fighting vehicles 300+
Armoured Personnel Carriers 1,000+

Naval Forces - Probably the best is the Halifax Class frigates, relatively recent accomplishment(1992) and is the backbone of MARCOM, the 12 Halifax class frigates carry the Sea King helicopters of the Air Force Command, as well as anti-submarine and anti-aircraft missiles. And don't get me started on our submarines...

Fleet Submarines 4
Destroyers 4
Frigates 12
Coastal Defence Vessels 12
Operational Support Ships 2

And, our Air Force
121 McDonnell-Douglas CF-188A/B tactical fighter bombers
18 Lockheed CP-140 'Aurora' /3 CP-140A 'Arcturus' long-range patrol aircraft
28 Sikorsky CH-124 'Sea King' maritime helicopters
15 CH-149 AgustaWestland 'Cormorant' search and rescue helicopters
98 CH-146 Bell 'Griffon' tactical transport helicopters
32 CC-130 Lockheed 'Hercules' combat transports
5 CC-150 'Polaris' Airbus A310 long range transports
6 CC-115 Dehavilland 'Buffalo' short range transports
6 CC-144 Canadair 'Challenger' jet transports (4 VIP/2 utility)
4 CC-138 Dehavilland 'Twin Otter' short range transports
22 CT-114 Canadair 'Tutor' jet trainers
24 CT-156 Raytheon 'Harvard II' trainers
21 CT-155 BAE 'Hawk' jet trainer
4 CT-142 Dehavilland Dash8
4 CT-133 'Silver Star'

Just recently, our camoflauge has since gone from outdated, to the most advanced in the world, even beating American standards (I know, hard to believe, eh?). In 1997, CADPAT (Canadian Disruptive Pattern) was officially adopted as the standard Canadian Army camouflage pattern. CADPAT is a computer-designed pixellated pattern, based loosely on traditional disruptive pattern camouflage. The very first CADPAT item issued was the camouflage cover for the new ballistic helmet.

As a final note, I ask that you do not judge this as "AMERIKA PWNS ALL!!! KANADA SUXOR!" - America does have a huge military, and a huge military budget, and its great to have the opportunity to train and cooperate with them. So Canada is not competing with them, ok? We don't live beside Iran or North Korea, so we don't need a huge military (even proportionally to the US, we have about 1/2 (?) the numbers as them; 30 - 300 million - 65000 to over one million soldiers) - But numbers isn't everything (in cases of third world countries having more soldiers than us).

I'd appreciate any imput about this - but no arbitrary flaming plz :)

[RedScorpion]

http://en.wikipedia...anadian_Armed_Forces

[RedSkunk]

Luxembourg's army stands at roughly 800.

You guys are doing alright.

[Elfer]

At 10/31/05 07:06 PM, R3DSK4NK wrote: Luxembourg's army stands at roughly 800.

You guys are doing alright.

That's quite a bit, considering only about 30 people live there.

[gussiejives]

Canada has a proud military history. Unfortunately, our nation's military power has waned over the last few decades. Our Seaking helicopters are piles of junk and our submarine fleet is laughable. As far as I know, however, the training our troops receive is second to none.

I take great pride in the fact that Canadian soldiers were used as "shock troops" in both WWI and WWII. Whenever there was a target that neither the French nor British could take, then it was up to the Canadians and they came through in the clinch. The "Creeping Barage" tactic employed by General Arthur Currie at Vimy Ridge is a great example of our once formidable power. It's unfortunate I find our military exploits forgotten by even our own people. Hardly anybody knows about the Italian Campaign in the Second World War, nor the fact that Canadians were stationed in Hong Kong during the Japanese invasion. Hopefully something will come of Remembrance Day on Nov. 11 to teach others about these forgotten battles.

While our standing army is not the most powerful, it is sufficient to defend us from those who would attack us, as well as to aid other nations through our peacekeeping efforts.

[RedScorpion]

At 10/31/05 07:57 PM, GDevlin77 wrote: Does it really matter? I mean, who in the world would want to invade 9 970 610 km2 of barren wasteland?

You obviously haven't heard of our substanstial resources ;)

[therealsylvos]

At 10/31/05 08:52 PM, RedScorpion wrote:

At 10/31/05 07:57 PM, GDevlin77 wrote: Does it really matter? I mean, who in the world would want to invade 9 970 610 km2 of barren wasteland?

You obviously haven't heard of our substanstial resources ;)

yes but what happens if there is a huge forest fire and you have no more lumber :)

[RedScorpion]

At 10/31/05 07:39 PM, gussiejives wrote: Canada has a proud military history. Unfortunately, our nation's military power has waned over the last few decades. Our Seaking helicopters are piles of junk and our submarine fleet is laughable. As far as I know, however, the training our troops receive is second to none.

Yea, those sea kings are in pitiful shape... I mean, the repair time is horrendous, and it is incredibly outdated - it needs a revamp badly. Not to mention the disaster of one crashing on deck of our 'flagship', on course to the gulf region.

We should have never bought those submarines from Britain - stupid accident that killed one (?) submariner - ugh. Diesal submarines may be 'good', but nuclear submarines are so much better. We shouldn't buy our fleet second hand :(

Our training is good - at least what I hear - I know there are some faults to training programs - our air defense has top equipment, but training with live ammo is very limited (may have changed since a few years ago). But I think we handle a competent army

I also hear that our Surface to Air missile platforms (ADAT's) will be changing to a more multi-purpose role, as they can do awesome damage to a tank, so a new chassis is being developed for them ^_^

I take great pride in the fact that Canadian soldiers were used as "shock troops" in both WWI and WWII. Whenever there was a target that neither the French nor British could take, then it was up to the Canadians and they came through in the clinch. The "Creeping Barage" tactic employed by General Arthur Currie at Vimy Ridge is a great example of our once formidable power. It's unfortunate I find our military exploits forgotten by even our own people. Hardly anybody knows about the Italian Campaign in the Second World War, nor the fact that Canadians were stationed in Hong Kong during the Japanese invasion. Hopefully something will come of Remembrance Day on Nov. 11 to teach others about these forgotten battles.

Yea, unfortunetly, nowadays we are considered a 'weak' nation by some of the public, even though our exploits in war are dramatically higher than most would care to know.
I mean, Canada send over one million soldiers, volunteered, to help fight World War 1, even though we only had a population of 12 million. Isn't that insane? I think Canada needs some more respect in contribution to war.

While our standing army is not the most powerful, it is sufficient to defend us from those who would attack us, as well as to aid other nations through our peacekeeping efforts.

Hear, Hear! :)

[Demosthenez]

Im not so sure about your camo being the newest and best.

The Marines are in the process of switching out their camo for this.

It is pixelated like yours. Not that I think it matters much. Camo is camo is camo. I cant believe this camo would be so much better.

But if the Canadian camo is better, by all means inform me. I have no idea. Just throwing this out there.

[RedScorpion]

At 10/31/05 09:18 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:.

It is pixelated like yours. Not that I think it matters much. Camo is camo is camo. I cant believe this camo would be so much better.

Yea, its similar to the camo on that marine ^_^
The main difference between conventional camoflage and computerized is that the eyes cannot focus on it from a moderate range. Your eyes try to identify it, but because of the irregular(to straight/curvy lines) pattern of it, your eyes tends to associate it with the background.

Cadpats are AMAZING.

I was at a cadet camp out in the brush, and there was a Seargent with the neck-piece and tily on, with full camo, facing teh treeline. I went to talk to someone next to him, and I didn;t even realize he was there until I got up to him.

[gussiejives]

At 10/31/05 07:57 PM, GDevlin77 wrote: Does it really matter? I mean, who in the world would want to invade 9 970 610 km2 of barren wasteland?

Hey! We have 1/4 of the world's uranium within our borders not to mention all the oil in Alberta.

Oh, and I believe America tried to invade Canada. Twice.

[RedScorpion]

Cadets is great, isn't it? :)
I was an air cadet for 4 years out east - was definetly one of the best experiences of my life. So stick with it! :D

[RedScorpion]

At 10/31/05 10:06 PM, gussiejives wrote:
Oh, and I believe America tried to invade Canada. Twice.

And we burnt down their white house too :P

[Demosthenez]

At 10/31/05 10:10 PM, RedScorpion wrote: And we burnt down their white house too :P

Yeah, with typical Canadian worksmanship and competancy also.

Its still standing :P

[RedScorpion]

At 11/1/05 01:59 AM, FAB0L0US wrote: Yeah, with typical Canadian worksmanship and competancy also.

Its still standing :P

Lol, actually, we apparently burnt down each others capitols!(Lmao) During the war of 1812- Seriously, check it out.

'At the time, Washington was a minor port with only about 8,000 inhabitants — about 1,300 of whom were slaves. What it lacked in strategic value, however, it made up in symbolic value. The British and Canadians had long sought revenge on the United States for the destruction they had caused on the capital of Upper Canada at York after the Battle of York in 1813. The naval commander, George Cockburn, wrote that he hoped the destruction of the new republic's capital might demoralize the enemy as well.'

'On August 25, the advance guard of British troops marched to Capitol Hill; they were too few in number to occupy the city, so Ross intended to destroy as much of it as possible. He sent a party under a flag of truce to agree to terms, but they were attacked by partisans from a house at the corner of Maryland Avenue, Constitution Avenue, and Second Street NE. This was to be the only resistance the soldiers met. The house was burned, but the soldiers were infuriated, and the Union Jack was raised above Washington.

The buildings housing the Senate and House of Representatives—construction on the trademark central rotunda of the Capitol had not yet begun—were set ablaze not long after. The interiors of both buildings, including the Library of Congress, were destroyed, although the thick walls and a torrential rainfall preserved their exteriors. Admiral Cockburn also entered the building of the anti-British newsletter, National Intelligencer, intending to burn it down; however, a group of neighborhood women persuaded him not to because they were afraid the fire would spread to their neighboring houses.

The troops then turned north down Pennsylvania Avenue toward the President's House. First Lady Dolley Madison remained there after many of the government officials—and her own bodyguard— had already left, gathering valuables, documents and other items of importance, notably a full-length painting of George Washington by Gilbert Stuart. She was finally persuaded to leave moments before British soldiers entered the building. Once inside, the soldiers found the dining hall set for a dinner for 40 people. After eating all the food they set about destroying the building.

Admiral Cockburn now ordered all the contents of the building to be emptied into the streets and standing on a printing press, he announced he would destroy all the "C"s in the press so that "the rascals can have no further means of abusing my name." Fuel was added to the fires that night to ensure they would continue burning into the next day; the flames were reportedly visible as far away as Baltimore and the Patuxent River.

The British also burned the United States Treasury building and other public buildings. The historic Washington Navy Yard, founded by Thomas Jefferson and the first federal installation in the United States, was burned by the Americans to prevent capture of stores and ammunition. The United States Patent Office building was saved by the efforts of William Thornton—architect of the Capitol and then superintendent of patents—who convinced the British of the importance of its preservation.

During the occupation, a severe storm, which included a tornado passed through, damaging both the invaders and the city, but quickly leaving and helping put out the fires. The occupation of Washington lasted about 26 hours, and within a week the British troops were dispatched to their next target, Baltimore. President Madison and the rest of the government returned to the city, but were in such disarray that they were unable to prosecute the war effectively.'

'The thick sandstone walls of the President's House survived, although scarred with smoke and scorch marks. Although a popular myth has it that the modern name White House came from the rebuilt mansion being painted white to cover smoke damage, the name is recorded earlier than the war, and it was first painted white in 1798, before it was used by any President. [1] Reconstruction of the Capitol would not begin until 1815, and would not be complete until 1830.

Of the three objectives of Britain's invasion of the U.S., Lake Champlain, Baltimore and Washington, D.C. this was the only attack that was successful. Although they had succeeded in diverting the necessary attention of Washington away from the war, the field commanders proved themselves and beat back every invasion that the British launched against the U.S. for the rest of the war. Cockburn's belief that the destruction of the capital would demoralize the American populace also proved false. The destruction galvanized thousands to volunteer for the defense of Baltimore'

http://en.wikipedia...urning_of_Washington

Yea, sorry for the long post :P

[BigBlueBalls]

At 10/31/05 09:18 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: But if the Canadian camo is better, by all means inform me. I have no idea. Just throwing this out there.

It just means that we focused our budget in areas that the U.S. didn't.

Another thing we may be working on in the near future, is replacing our CF airforce with fleets of remote controlled jets. Basically the same as the latest fighter planes, except with no pilots in the cockpit. They'll be sitting out to sea or some other secure area controlling them by satellite.

Believe it or not Canada's robotic technology is what we're becoming known for. That's why the NASA continues to hire us to do things like building the robotic arm on the space station and the U.S. military has taken interest in many of our UVS (Unmanned Vehicle Systems).

You think Canada's sitting up here all quiet, not doing anything, when really we're building a big fucking army of machines that will one day take over the world. Then about a century from now when we're fighting a losing battle with the machines, there will be some guy is sitting there in a ditch with another guy wondering "how did it come to this, how did the machines take over?" and he'll answer "Blame Canada!".

[Oz3000]

and now everything is beginning to remindme of SouthPark : The Movie.

Lets just hope that satan doesnt try to take over the world with Saddam Hussian.

on a more serious note i dont really see a point in Armies or the Military of any nation, Cos once WW3 starts its all going nuclear baby!

[punisher19848]

At 10/31/05 10:06 PM, gussiejives wrote:
Hey! We have 1/4 of the world's uranium within our borders not to mention all the oil in Alberta.

Oh, and I believe America tried to invade Canada. Twice.

That was during the war of 1812! We invaded for the purpose of gaining strategic depth from which we could repel the British forces from without risking much of our home territory, not for the resources you have...

[JoS]

Although the total number of troops in the Canadian Special forces is small, they are one of the best outfits in the world, and one of the most versatile.

In WW2 we had the most feared stormtroopers of the Allied forces. Our vehicles were the best. German troops had standing orders for whenever they engaged Canadians if they could, they were to attempt to caputer our jeeps in working condition, of course provided it didnt mean we would slaughter them all. we were know for our bravery and ability to strike ahrd and fast, even facing unfavourable odds.

[Demosthenez]

At 11/1/05 03:55 PM, JusticeofSarcasm wrote: In WW2 we had the most feared stormtroopers of the Allied forces.

Ive heard the same thing about the Scottish Highlanders, the Indian Gurkhas, the Poles, and the New Zealanders.

Its safe to say everyone makes that claim. I will give, Canada preformed damn well in every engagement that I am aware they took part in, especially their part in D-Day.

[gussiejives]

At 11/1/05 05:26 PM, FAB0L0US wrote:

At 11/1/05 03:55 PM, JusticeofSarcasm wrote: In WW2 we had the most feared stormtroopers of the Allied forces.

Ive heard the same thing about the Scottish Highlanders, the Indian Gurkhas, the Poles, and the New Zealanders.

Its safe to say everyone makes that claim. I will give, Canada preformed damn well in every engagement that I am aware they took part in, especially their part in D-Day.

The ANZAC are formidable warriors, as well were the Scottish Highlanders. Canada, however, had something to prove to the world in 1914 as our nation was quite young and there were some who questioned our need for independence. WWI was our Baptism of Fire. Not only were our troops' bravery under fire admirable, but our commanders employed unique tactics, such as the Creeping Barage at Vimy Ridge, as well as the building-to-building street fighting of Ortona.

Juno Beach on D-Day is one of our well known battles, but to me isn't the best example of Canada's fighting prowess.

[gussiejives]

At 11/1/05 02:40 PM, punisher19848 wrote:

At 10/31/05 10:06 PM, gussiejives wrote:
Hey! We have 1/4 of the world's uranium within our borders not to mention all the oil in Alberta.

Oh, and I believe America tried to invade Canada. Twice.

That was during the war of 1812! We invaded for the purpose of gaining strategic depth from which we could repel the British forces from without risking much of our home territory, not for the resources you have...

The remark was "who would want to invade such a barren wasteland as Canada is".

First of all, I wished to point out that Canada is not a barren wasteland due to the considerable primary resources within our borders.

Secondly, the answer to "who would invade Canada?" is rather obvious. America invaded Canada twice. Once in the Revolutionary War and again in 1812. Yes, it was not for our resources as uranium was not discovered in 1812, nor was our Albertan oil, but the fact is that there was an invasion attempt.

Just wishing to clarify my previous point.

[Leftover-crack]

At 10/31/05 08:56 PM, therealsylvos wrote:

At 10/31/05 08:52 PM, RedScorpion wrote:

At 10/31/05 07:57 PM, GDevlin77 wrote: Does it really matter? I mean, who in the world would want to invade 9 970 610 km2 of barren wasteland?

You obviously haven't heard of our substanstial resources ;)

yes but what happens if there is a huge forest fire and you have no more lumber :)

yeah I'm sure they are going too let a fire spread too millions of big ass forest's.....

[awakened-soul]

the reason why canada doesnt need a big military is becuase of the huge military located under us.....if anything ever happend to canada...say china or russia try to invade...we would go to us and ask for help..also brits too...but yeh...thats why we dont need a military.

however...if ever usa became the new germany and invvade mexico and canada...well i pledge alliegiance to the flag

*salutes*

[Demosthenez]

At 11/1/05 05:43 PM, gussiejives wrote: but our commanders employed unique tactics, such as the Creeping Barage at Vimy Ridge

I could have sworn creeping barrages were used earlier in the war than Vimy. I could be wrong, though. Can you clarify on this point? Did Canadians invent it or just use it well?

Juno Beach on D-Day is one of our well known battles, but to me isn't the best example of Canada's fighting prowess.

You were the only ones to accomplish yor objectives on what most consider the second hardest fought beach.

[RedScorpion]

I have a question for you all:
Do you think Canada, and Canada's military play a significant role in today's world?

I personally would like to see more commitment to increasing our military strength (maybe to about 100,000), but overall I believe we are doing a competent job in international affairs - such as the sending of specialist/naval groups to assist Katrina efforts, commitment to Afganistan rebuilding, etc.

However, I only see Canada as playing a 'moderate' role nowadays...

[Politics]

At 10/31/05 10:10 PM, RedScorpion wrote: And we burnt down their white house too :P

:D That's my favorite tidbit of history, the fact that we burnt down their whitehouse. And even funnier is that it wasn't even a real military operation, just an angry mob from Canada. but um, we DID burn it completly down, they just rebuilt.

[awakened-soul]

At 11/2/05 06:05 PM, GDevlin77 wrote: I thought the brits burnt down our white house. Or maybe it just happened twice.

was the brits..but later became canadian..lol..so technically we didnt burn down there house..britain did...we were british then...LOL

[hellosparta13]

The vatican army has 100 men with spears - not very useful (actually, they would be crushed by the persian army of around 400 BC)