At 7/25/07 11:38 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

On that subject, I'm still waiting for your explanation of why Alaska and Wyoming have higher gun murder rates, though.

They don't, I just proved it to you that they don't. I love it how your argument has become so weak, you're so unable to even come close to keeping a honest view (since it already got proven wrong) you have to entirely deny what has already been proven.

It's quite simple, cellar: if you want to blame Mexican immigrants, you can use numbers to blame Texas or California, or rates to blame New Mexico and Arizona. You can't, however, try and blame both for the simple reason it's rather hard to have your cake and eat it when it's halfway round the u-bend.

What's their black and Latino population, cellar?

Nil, and they happen to have incredibly low crime rates and gun murder rates. Much lower than Arizona and new Mexico which you falsely claimed have no notable problem.

Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (Latest available) by state
#2 Alaska
#4 Wyoming

So, they have no black or latino population, but high gun murder rates - much higher than Texas or California, which have larger black and latino populations?

Do you know what I find funny? For ages you use rates not numbers, and when I turn that on you suddenly you go for numbers over rates - if anyone's argument is weak, it's the guy that flip-flops in a desperate effort to try and pretend they have a clue.

And tell me, why is it most people that suffer from Intermittent Explosive Disorder (the PC term for going nuts and shooting up the neighbourhood) are white?

Lol what?

THAT'S ONE PERSON.

Note that I said "most of the people that suffer from IED" - by posting a link to the ONE black guy, you have proven once again how little you know about any problem if you can't blame Mexicans or Afro Caribbeans for it.

If I were a troll like you, I'd be typing "hahaha" about now.

I'm telling you what the FACTS are (which you keep denying because you're delusional), that in the US Hispanics and blacks are much more likely to commit violent crimes and violent crimes with firearms. The US also borders Mexico, which is a huge smuggler of drugs, guns, and people. And if you look at the crime rates of areas of the US with high illegal immigrant populations and close proximity to Mexico, and compare it to the rest of the US, it makes it obvious.

So the FACT that there is a very minorgun murder rate in Cuba and Puerto Rico, the countries which make up the majority of Florida's immigrant Latino population, doesn't come into it?

And you're calling me delusional, after I point at a large hole in your "blame Latinos!" theory...

I'm I've already proved it's not necessary in the US, and that it WON'T WORK in the US, and will make things worse.. South Africa is a different country, they have major social issues so giving people guns who once killed each other with spears isn't always a good idea.

Strangulation, suffocation, bludgeoning - not spears, cellar. Keep the blatant racism inherant in your bullshit to a minimum, please.

And, by the way, you're stating for the record that America has problems to make excuses for gun murders, why haven't you noted Ivory Coast has been in the grip of Civil War for five years - and has a lower rate of gun murder than the US? Or, once again, the US is the only First World Nation be be in the top 15 when it comes to gun murder rates?

That is so massivly important, that the US is rubbing shoulders with Third World nations when it comes to the rate of gun murder, but this apparently isn't important.

Because most of the people doing the unjustified killing didn't get their guns legally, and therefor gun control is a non-issue. Just because people kill in justified cases more than not, doesn't mean that they aren't preventing more homicide (and overall gun crime) than they are causing. Also, people can still prevent and deter crimes, and even murders with their guns without killing the perpetrator.

Sorry, did you ask those responsible for that number where they got their guns from, and by what means? If not, how can you say "most" of them got them illegally?

And, frankly, as 192 justifiable homicides is a pathetic statistic.

And, get this - maybe if they weren't trying to be a hero and get a justifiable homicide on their CV, the moment they went for a gun is when the person pointing theirs at them panicked, pulled the trigger, and they become one of the 15,684?

As I've said, people holding guns are not in control (irnoically, you are more likely to be in control holding a spear) - hence the "accidents" from private citizens, police and military every year.

Facts are fun:

1) There are around 400,000 firearm crimes in the US annually.

Strangely a lot more than in the UK, where you keep implying has worse problems than the US, then saying we don't because we don't have Mexicans living here.

And you still haven't grasped it, have you? Maybe if the Second Amendment wasn't being bastardised for decades, do you honestly believe that statistic would be anywhere near as high?

2) The majority of this firearm crime is committed by people who cannot legally own firearms due to their legal ineligibility, therefore they are already criminals. Therefore at least 200,000 gun crimes are committed by people who are not legally eligible to purchase/own firearms.

Yet they obtain them - Cho obtained his weapons via the free market due to lax inspection of his record. Harris & Klebold had their friend Robyn Anderson legally purchase the weapons they used. Unruch, Huberty, Whitman, Unruh, Berkowitz - all obtained their weapons by legal means.

None of these people were already criminals at the time of purchase.

3) In order to support banning guns, you'd have to show that legally-owned guns cause more crime than they prevent in the US. But you can't do that (of course you can't) because there are 2 million defensive uses of firearms by law-abiding citizens in the US annually.

And the sum total of 192 justifiable homicides - or, to put it another way, there are 82.6875 non justifiable homicides for each justifiable one.

That's not a statistic to crow about, cellar.

And, of course, you don't include cases of accidentally discharging your fireamr, be it cleaning it, dropping it or whatever, and killing somebody that way. That doesn't count as an offensive or defensive gun usage, yet can result in injury or death.

That means that law-abiding citizens prevent at least 10 times more crime than they cause with their firearm. It also means that since most firearm crimes are perpetrated by people who do not legally own their firearms and don't obey gun laws (let alone any laws), banning guns would only take them out of the hands of the people who, according to the statistical facts, use guns responsibly.

Even though they're 82 times more likely to get shot and killed, gun or no gun?

And, once again, with stricter gun control, it is easier to root out those who illegally own firearms they should not have in their posession - sorry, isn't having a reason to take them and their gun off the streets NOT what is needed in America in regards to their gun issues?

At 7/26/07 01:53 AM, TomsPulp wrote: dk2virus, you suck, ur not even reading what cellar is writing, you know ur wrong, so just stop.

No, I'm not agreeing with you - oh, and cellar - and I'm reading a lot of poisonous bullshit that's trying to blame non-whites for the problem, so therefore the problem is not America's. So, therefore I'm wrong.

Right...

guns are like any tool, it dosent do anything unless a PERSON wants to do sumthing bad with it.

A gun isn't a tool, a gun is a WEAPON. Didn't I have to go into a lot of detail about something that is obvious to the meanest intelligence (i.e. Dre-Man) three months ago?

A hammer is designed to hammer in nails, and has been adapted to be a weapon. A gun is designed to kill, and hasn't been adapted to do anything else because it does the first job pretty damn well. That's the point of a gun and any other weapon.

we need to get the the BASE of the problem and solve that.

Yes - you won't do that by listening to somebody blaming Latinos, Afro-Caribbeans and anybody else that isn't white for the problem - the base of the problem is people have allowed the Second Amendment to be bastardised and took it at face value. The problem is the US has a fetishism of guns, which you won't find in South Africa, Columbia etc. because of the bastardisation of the Second Amendment. Come on, what kind of advertising is this other than a fetishization of a gun as a phallic compensator? Frankly, I'd be scared of anywhere that advertised itself with the following:
STOP BY AND SHOOT A LIVE MACHINE GUN!

You yourself have used the idea of a gun as a tool as a defence, even though you won't find a 12-gauge in B&Q - or anywhere else that isn't a licensed arms dealer.

A gun is a weapon, designed to kill, and they are allowed into the marketplace and, as a result, a black marketplace can exploit this: they can sell or modify the guns available on the market, supply illegal ones.

In other words, I know what I'm talking about - sorry it isn't what you think you know what you're talking about.

At 7/28/07 08:35 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: The US is the only first world nation to BORDER A 3rd WORLD NATION.

Yeah...South Korea (North Korea). Germany (Poland). Finland (next to Russia, but close enough).

The US is the only first world nation to have its own unique set of problems.

The U.K. has many, many, many of the same problems we have...

Guns are used defensively 2 MILLION times a year in the US by law-abiding citizens,

Your source is just so damn credible compared to the the FBI.

Um actually it would be higher, facts don't lie.

Your facts certainly do.

So, cellar, when I post a source that categorically states that Alaska has a higher gun murder rate per 100,000 than California, it's wrong for the sole reason that I posted it?

Face facts - you're flip flopping: you want to blame Mexicans so go by numbers. When I state New Mexico and Arizona don't have numbers anywhere near, you go for murder rate - with California and Texas far below them. When I call you up on it, you suddenly get more confused than you are defensive, as it dawns on you that you can't say one and the other: you need to choose, although that would mean you were wrong at some point.

Sort of like starting a thread entitled "Gun control doesn't work (proof)" by listing one gun massacre in England (before the handgun ban), Germany and Canada - just like you post a link to ONE black guy who went on a kill spree to try and prove...something, although God knows what. Especially when there have been three gun massacres in the US in the past 18 months, yet there hasn't been on in the UK since 1996.

Then again, this is coming from somebody that says a 4,000% increase in gun murders in South Africa in the decade guns have been freely available is irrelivant, rather than something shocking like possibly giving a hint that gun control actually works.

The US is the only first world nation to have its own unique set of problems.

Alright, you're clearly in my realm now, and no we don't. Most major powers undergo many of the same and similar problems, both modern and ancient.

"No they don't, and you're LYING RIGHT NOW"
"you're so pathetic that you keep getting proven wrong"
"Do I have to recap?"
"you keep acting like a fucking moron and I'm sure that once you get humiliated for the 10th time"
"You're so dishonest is sad. "
"Haha, you've proven that it is you who is stupid. And now you're just further LYING and avoiding the truth of how pathetic and wrong you are all the time, you're showing how even more DISHONEST you can be to perpetuate your false views."

Learn some new tricks already. The same insults for every single person you come across just bores me....

At 6/11/07 06:47 PM, dodo-man-1 wrote: If you entered this thread because you read the title and want to unleash a rapid-fire barrage of insults, then leave now. I don't want to deal with you, just those that respect my opinion, whether they agree with it or not.

Now, on to my point. Why do gun stores sell semiautomatic weaponry without having to fill out some kind of form or going through a screening process or something? If you're a deer hunter, or a duck hunter, or any kind of hunter, you don't need semiautomatic fire to kill one deer. If you collect guns, you should be willing to fill out a form of some kind to get a gun you probably won't use. The fact that there is no control on these guns in most places leads to things like... oh, I don't know, the V-Tech rampage?

Don't you think?

Gun control is a dead end.The only people that buy guns ligitematately dont use them in crime anyway.Criminals get their guns from the black market & file off the cereal number.

why is there so much unrelated crap on this thread? guns r good

At 7/29/07 06:23 PM, HomicideJack wrote:

At 7/29/07 05:45 PM, flashplayer5 wrote: why is there so much unrelated crap on this thread? guns r good

im with ya there!

lol yay i like me guns

ill get back to this thread soon. i just cant be bothered looking up a myriad of statistics, and then separating them to compare white u.s vs white europe/ u.k gun murders.

Gun control is a dead end.The only people that buy guns ligitematately dont use them in crime anyway.Criminals get their guns from the black market & file off the cereal number.

You dont think thats a bit of a narrow minded opinion, or were you being sarcastic? ALL gun crime is carried out using black market guns? That isnt true, and why dont other countrys have sucha black market problem, causing so much gun crime?

I actually use a russian SKS ( it's a predecessor to the AK-47) for pig hunting because it's accurate and powerful enough for a pig.

Also, odn't talk about guns because you probably don't hunt especially it u think u use assault rilfles for duck hungtinh ( u use shotguns because they dhoot a spread of BBS)

At 7/29/07 07:01 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

At 7/29/07 06:23 PM, HomicideJack wrote:

At 7/29/07 05:45 PM, flashplayer5 wrote: why is there so much unrelated crap on this thread? guns r good

im with ya there!

lol yay i like me guns

;
I just came back from lunch in a little village about 1/2 hour away.
In the local Pub, over the bar is a saying about gun control.
I don't think anyone on one side or the other of the gun argument can argue with what this bumper sticker says.

"Guns don't kill people, they just make it real easy"
It don't come any closer to the truth than that, guy's.

At 7/30/07 02:06 PM, morefngdbs wrote:

"Guns don't kill people, they just make it real easy"
It don't come any closer to the truth than that, guy's.

Well true, a gun is a weapon. and whats more desensitizing then pulling a trigger? Without a gun you need to conjure up the emotional fortitude to actually stab someone (assuming a knife would be the best fitting alternative). That be the case, you most likely have to do so several times in order to ensure death. Much more barbaric then oh say, pulling a trigger a couple of times when someone pisses you off.

At 7/30/07 04:04 PM, tony4moroney wrote:

Well true, a gun is a weapon. Much more barbaric then oh say, pulling a trigger a couple of times when someone pisses you off.

;
Like the little sticker said "it just makes it, a hell of a lot EASIER"

At 7/30/07 04:13 PM, morefngdbs wrote: Like the little sticker said "it just makes it, a hell of a lot EASIER"

I wanted to elaborate? or is that too much..?

Celladors arguments are at mute point because Gun's are inheritly evil, just like paganism and sex.

[I hope you all understand what i was trying to bring across from this]

At 7/29/07 08:23 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: - There are 400,000 firearm crimes in the US annually.

Proved us right...that's one HELL of a lot of crimes!

- There are 2 million defensive uses of firearms by law-abiding citizens in the US annually.

I've rebutted this falsehood numerous times.

At 7/31/07 03:58 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 7/31/07 02:40 AM, HighlyIllogical wrote:

At 7/29/07 08:23 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: - There are 400,000 firearm crimes in the US annually.

Proved us right...that's one HELL of a lot of crimes!

You're delusional. See, once again you fail to realize that , AS I PROVED, the majority of that crime is comitted by people who cannot and do not legally own the firearms they use in those crimes. Also, people who DO legally own their firearms prevent 10 times as many crimes as they cause.

Problem: Where do those guns come from? Illegal grow ops?

Maybe the correct implementation of gun control is to watch where they're going, and crack down hard on licensed dealers who feed guns to the illegal market.

The black market doesn't manufacture guns, it acquires them through illegal deals or through theft. Both of those make acquisition the only illegal link in the chain.

I'm not saying that a gun ban is a good idea, but the whole "Criminals use illegal guns anyway" argument seems a bit off, since if a gun ban was implemented it would choke the major source of illegal firearms.

cellar, once again qualititive data eludes you in a major way, this time in relation to the most common murders you get.

The most common murder isn't a drive-by shooting from a group of gangsters, or somebody shooting up their school - the most common murder cases you will find are, among others:
* Man kills wife.
* Jilted ex kills former lover.
* Mother kills unwanted child.
* Person feels slighted by another person and kills them.

These are comitted by "law abiding people" who are not prevented from owning a gun by law (apart from the last, which is 50/50) - not by some psycho who illegally purchased a weapon to kill somebody, but somebody with the fool idea in their head that a gun can protect their home and family, rather than being what destroys it.

And, as tony has rightly stated, if you are going to kill you - for the sake of argument - wife with a knife, blunt object, cord or whatever, a sense of remorse can make you stop before you have killed them (especially the latter two). With a gun, the sense of remorse can only come around when the body hits the floor, once you've pulled the trigger - the gun is designed to desensitise you from what you're doing, by making it far less impersonal than a knife, or a sword.

Keep jumping up and down, cellar, trying to blame non-whites for all of America's gun crime and ignore valid counter arguments. Why do you think I'm not quoting your posts? Because that would be dignifying your poisonous bullshit that's soon going to have been trolled out for four months post-VT, wielding dishonesty, untruthfulness, hostility, immiturity and ignorance like a caveman wields a club.

Its sad because the way the world works means we need guns to get things done.

At 8/1/07 10:58 AM, Danny6 wrote: Its sad because the way the world works means we need guns to get things done.

Not necessarily - money (and other valuable commodities) tend to grease the wheels rather well.

At 6/11/07 09:33 PM, ForkRobotik wrote: Guns aren't the problem, it's the culture that's the problem. Look what happened to that nice korean boy that tried to go to school in your country! You people made him crazy!!!

That exactly why they need to stay in there country.

At 8/1/07 01:08 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: That's not true, as I proved, when handguns were banned in the UK, handgun crime went up through the roof.

Yeah, crimes in which a handgun was reported.

You're aware that the UK has a big problem with crimes involving replicas, right?

At 8/1/07 11:08 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 8/1/07 10:57 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 8/1/07 01:08 AM, cellardoor6 wrote: That's not true, as I proved, when handguns were banned in the UK, handgun crime went up through the roof.

Yeah, crimes in which a handgun was reported.

You're aware that the UK has a big problem with crimes involving replicas, right?

Prove that the replicas are responsible for the increase...

Well, considering I haven't seen any information detailing an increase in the number of people actually being shot with a firearm, I'm inclined to think that people are getting a lot more cocky about using replicas than they were before.

Because based on the facts we have, banning handguns didn't achieve its goal of reducing handgun crime, therefore in and of itself it is a failure.

Hey, I know that gun bans are a failed policy. One of the major problems with them is that shutting your eyes tight and hoping really hard doesn't make all of the guns already in the hands of criminals (i.e. a whole bunch) magically go away.

It also means that criminals who do have a handgun will probably be pimping them significantly harder, since Grandpa Joe at the liquor store isn't going to pull out his colt 45 and kick your ass with it if you walk in waving a gun around.

The rise in handgun crime could easily be due to an overall increase in confidence in both firearms and replicas, the difference being that criminals can still get their hands on replicas pretty easily.

I'm sorry if someone already said this (i'm not reading 15 friggin pages) but i saw people saying you need to get a mental examination and crap but if they are gonna shoot some place up couldnt they just buy guns illegally?... How the hell do you controll that? If you don't know that someone has a gun what can you do?

Fun fact: Last time I was in a gun control topic, I was examining the relationship between murder rates and other variables, including gun ownership, population density, median income, etc etc.

The only one that showed anything resembling a correlation was race.

Lolz.

Ok you have to be very dumb to beleive that guns should be sold because look at countries were owning guns are illegal like in Japan, Australia and the UK, they have some of the lowest homicidal rates in the world. I know it's true that most criminals use guns gotten at big amounts imported illegally but most of the homicides and suicides are with guns bought legally because it's just too easy to get a gun, you just sign some papers and they check your history to see if you could have a gun (but of course has many flaws as we have seen). In fact, I don't know if you heard of a 10 month old who got a gun legally Alabama (I think it was that state, but I could have confused with Ohio :S) because the father signed some papers and the kids doodled a signature and somehow due to the magnificent system for selling guns their in the USA the kid got a gun :S (which is really weird...). Anyways I may have gotten a bit away from the point but what I mean is that selling guns should be banned from the USA cause if we compare with countries were buying guns is illegal the USA is seen as a veryyyyyyy violent country and I know that british, japanese or other people from other countries aren't mentally superior...

When I checked his profile...
Age: 13
Job: Stupidity

1/07 11:34 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

At 8/1/07 10:52 AM, D2Kvirus wrote:

cellar, once again qualititive data eludes you in a major way, this time in relation to the most common murders you get.

The most common murder isn't a drive-by shooting from a group of gangsters, or somebody shooting up their school - the most common murder cases you will find are, among others:

Proof?

Prove something you say for once please. Prove that those types of murders outnumber the murders comitted by law-abiding citizens in either relative or absolute terms.

These are comitted by "law abiding people" who are not prevented from owning a gun by law (apart from the last, which is 50/50)

Proof?

not by some psycho who illegally purchased a weapon to kill somebody, but somebody with the fool idea in their head that a gun can protect their home and family, rather than being what destroys it.

Here you go saying things again that are in total ignorance of the facts that were already provided.

The fool idea that guns protect homes and families?? You mean the actual fact that legal gun ownership prevents 10 times more crime than it causes? And that legal gun owners use guns defensively and legitimately 5 times more than the national TOTAL total of gun crimes?

I've already proved this with links, facts, and simple math. You keep making claims in spite of what has already been proven, all while you provide no proof to validate the claims you make.

And, as tony has rightly stated, if you are going to kill you - for the sake of argument - wife with a knife, blunt object, cord or whatever, a sense of remorse can make you stop before you have killed them (especially the latter two). With a gun, the sense of remorse can only come around when the body hits the floor, once you've pulled the trigger - the gun is designed to desensitise you from what you're doing, by making it far less impersonal than a knife, or a sword.

Oh yeah, you of all people know what a gun was "designed" to do. Never mind the fact that the majority of guns aren't even used for killing, and won't be used for killing. Never mind that someone who murders someone with ANY device or method is still a murderer, and made a conscious decision to end someone's life.

The argument that guns make killing easier in the utilitarian standpoint is legitimate, but claiming that having a gun makes someone mentally more capable of killing someone is absolutely absurd.

Keep jumping up and down, cellar, trying to blame non-whites for all of America's gun crime and ignore valid counter arguments.

Nobody give valid counter arguments.

Where was a valid counter argument? Was it when you repeatedly used links selectively and dishonestly to claim things that they didn't prove? Was it when you denied the FACT that the US has many factors, including racial make-up and geographic position which make higher gun crime rates prevalent irregardless of gun laws?

Nobody gave a valid counter argument. In fact, anything that could possibly be interpreted as a valid counter argument was sabotaged by the total DISHONESTY of the people providing it (you and highllyillogical most notably).

Why do you think I'm not quoting your posts?

The reason you're not replying with quotes is because my previous post was a METICULOUS, COMPLETE, STEP-BY-STEP DISPROOF of everything you said. You only way you could have replied while sticking to your routine of ignoring everytime you get proven wrong and caught in your lie, would have been to reply to maybe 3 or 4 lines.

I caught you in your lies, I PROVED you wrong in several aspects, I proved that your argument was based on the most dishonest, fact-dodging, delusional, and irrational stance possible. I proved that the ONLY WAY for someone to actually maintain the anti-gun stance is to lie, and distort and ignore facts. I showed that anti-gun views aren't based on facts, they aren't based on the actual desire to reduce gun crime, it's based purely on POLITICAL DOGMA. You're antigun because you're loyal to your political ideology. You WILLINGLY live a lie, you willingly support something you know is wrong because it coincides with your larger, all-encompassing MENTAL DISORDER of your political views.

It's hilarious that YOU say I am dishonest, even though you REPEATEDLY denied several of your lies that I CAUGHT YOU IN. I proved that you used links dishonestly, how you picked and chose certain links to make claims that weren't even validated by the links.

Because that would be dignifying your poisonous bullshit that's soon going to have been trolled out for four months post-VT, wielding dishonesty, untruthfulness, hostility, immiturity and ignorance like a caveman wields a club.

Haha. It's funny because every single word you just used is actually a completely accurate description of you. Fortunately for me, I've been honest this entire time. I've used links honestly, I based my arguments on facts, I held true to the facts, instead of maintaining a view in spite of facts like you did.

So not only are you wrong about eveyrthing, but you're willingly wrong, you're so motivated by both your ego and your irrational political bias that you squander the truth. Now, even though you know I am right, even though you know you are wrong and that you LIED to pretend otherwise, you use words to describe me that actually describe YOU. Thus showing you are also a hypocrite, a delusional, dishonest, hypocrite who is absolutely WRONG in every single aspect.

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FUCK that was meant to kill the last page not this one.

Myth One:

"Criminals commit crimes, guns are there to protect us from them"

According to the National Bureau of Justice Statistics

For murder victims, 43% were related to or acquainted with their assailants; 14% of victims were murdered by strangers, while 43% of victims had an unknown relationship to their murderer in 2002.

Between 1976 and 2002, about 11% of murder victims were determined to have been killed by an intimate.

Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns. In 2005, 55% of homicides were committed with handguns, 16% with other guns, 14% with knives, 5% with blunt objects, and 11% with other weapons

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm

For FBI Statistics

Albeit many were unknown;

more then 50% of Victims were relatives or associated with the killer

2, 100 of murders were a result of Felonies

Whereas;

More then 4, 000 were a result of arguments or relationships

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/e xpanded_information/data/shrtable_09.htm l

Its primarily due to spontaneity and anger, you're more likely to be killed by your friend or family member then a criminal.

Myth Two:

"Criminals acquire guns in the black market"

That accounts for only 15%

Most are acquired from straw-man purchases whereby someone who can legally purchase the gun buys it for the criminal

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.

Enforcing Gun Control laws will remove the two largest sources of illegal gun acquisition.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/
shows/guns/procon/guns.html

now watch me get banned, seeing as how JoS is on, please dont ban me