At 1/17/07 06:15 AM, tawc wrote: If america an the EU went to war both economies would collapse and China would instantly be the worlds largest economy.

But it wouldn't have anyone to sell its shitty products to.

At 1/16/07 10:54 PM, BanditByte wrote: Hahahaha, Cellardoor just opened a nice can of whoopass on "zzzzd."

Ya. I dont always agree with his veiws, but he has a tendency to own in many arguements.

The only point I didnt agree with is that the one about the US having always been virtuous, which isnt quite true. The wars and westward expansion during the 19th century were little better than european imperialism in africa and asia at the time. The war in vietnam is also suspect.

But otherwise ya, compared to most super powers, the US isnt half bad.

Ok... um... im probably gonna get hate mail for this but, was america ever in any power? I thought we lived in the confederacy.

At 1/17/07 11:35 PM, mrpiex wrote: Ok... um... im probably gonna get hate mail for this but, was america ever in any power? I thought we lived in the confederacy.

You know, you're going to have to clarify that...

I Still don't belive America could win air superiority, as America couldn't get enough aircraft over to europe to counter eurpean air forces. Bombers won't be as succesfull as they were in iraq or many other countries america has bombed. Due to much more advanced radar and airforce.

Both the US and EU have the ability to carry out large scale attacks on each others mainland with cruise missiles, allthough americas air-defense is superior.

The american bases in europe would be secured probably before the war even broke out.

Theres Not a huge amount of american bases in europe anymore anyway. And theres no were near as much US personal as the actuall countries military. The bases would be quite easily taken. Britains probably got the most American forces in europe. And There mostly in RAF Mildenhall an RAF Lakenheath near were I live. If worst comes to worse both bases could just be bombed to shit. But they would most likely be taken very swiftly.

The US navy would have alot of trouble from air attacks and Submarine.
US ships would be extremmely vunrable from anti-ship missiles, Americas navy would be sitting ducks if they could not get a secure base on land.

Also Theres no way america could deal with europe and another at the same time. Yes america can deal with two large conflicts at the same time, But not something as big as a war with Europe.

America most probably would not win an assault on Europe.

At 1/18/07 08:29 AM, zzzzd wrote: America most probably would not win an assault on Europe.

You list all of these setbacks assuming that they just magically won't happen to both sides...

At 1/18/07 08:48 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 1/18/07 08:29 AM, zzzzd wrote: America most probably would not win an assault on Europe.

You list all of these setbacks assuming that they just magically won't happen to both sides...

what??

Yeah... the US is strong.

But China will inevitably be the worlds strongest military power. WIth both superior numbers and advancing technology, also with the begining of a space program and a much stronger economy, China will overtake the US.

America spends 3% on military, which is alot, but China spends over 9% which is better.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/ar chives/2007/01/16/2003345026

China for teh winz.

At 1/16/07 09:40 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Did you know that the all the nuclear missiles the UK has are controlled by the US??

It doesnt say that at all. The UK has over 200 nuclear missles. We, in addition, have 100 of our missles stationed in the UK under our NATO sharing plan. Dont make shit up.

I agree with cellardoor mostly, but I this is not true:

At 1/13/07 08:17 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Every single country in the world that the US doesn't have a close economic partnership is in poverty.

Every single country in the world that the US DOES have a close economic partnership is successful.

The closer the trade ties are with the US, the better off the country is.

Brazil has a strong economic part nership with the US , but I wouldn't call it succesful, and Finland happens exactly the opposite.

lol, its funny reading this.

Celler puts soooo much effort into his arguements and sources and everyone else seems to just assume.

Clearly theres only one patriotic person in this thread.

-The US has 12 supercarriers that have 85 aircraft each (about 4 squadrons) so about 1000 aircraft (larger than the entire British airforce) and these are made up of mostly F/A-18 super hornets (the most advanced strike fighter in the world).

We upgrade em too. The Enterprise is gonna retire and make way for the USS Gerald Ford!

At 1/13/07 07:57 PM, fireball6283 wrote: America fucking rules the entire world. We can kill anyone at any time, strike and destroy an entire country for fun. We rule. BOW DOWN!!!

fuck off, if it weren't for us (the british :P) your country wouldn't exist.

At 1/19/07 12:22 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: lol, its funny reading this.

Celler puts soooo much effort into his arguements and sources and everyone else seems to just assume.

As correct as you are, his performance is pretty much contained to this thread alone. He does his share of assuming and creating bullshit like the rest. He's a military baby, what do you expect?

Cellardoor6 most US bases have closed down in recent years, your getting sources which are 4-6 years old. In fact alot of the bases listed were used in the fuckin cold war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Ai r_Forces_in_Europe#Current_Operating_Units

So in actuall fact there is no were as near as many US military in Europe as you think. And Most of them Are in Europe. And there are more at the moment because of the war on terrorism and war in Iraq.

Britain and france are are at the same levels as the US in technology. You seem to think it would be as easy as iraq.

American aircraft carriers would be sitting ducks without secure land bases. Ships are so vunerable to air attacks, Even with the most advanced technology.
And Even the most basic of radar can pick up huge great fuckin aircraft carriers.

And Theres a number of european bases in and around the americas so it would be possible to attack the US mainland. As well as the fact that this was originally the US v the world which would mean there would be a huge number of allie bases around america.

The EU is an emerging super power, It has as much influence on the world as america with soft power. It has an Economy as large and It's working towards a Unified Military. The Gallelio project allthough it does have flaws will Come operational in the next few years, many NATO countries are Working towards changing from GPS to Galleilo.
Having a military expenditure at about half that of the US But only spending 1% of Buget compared to the US's 3%. The EU is a potentiol super power. There is no way america and europe would go to war, It would cripple both economies immensly And it would be such a huge war and would also probably escalate into a world war.

Europe may well have a military equal to america in the next 20years. Hopefully howether Both countries will remain strong allies. As China Emerges as superior to both the EU and the US.

Exactly!

They would never go to war and China is on the rise.

China poses the greatest threat to both the US and EU combined. With the launching of its own Satelite network in the cards and the ability to already use America's own Satelite networks against them with the employment of advanced coded messages (see http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/h980618-pr c12.htm ) and a VASTLY superior population(over 1, 6th the population of the world) to call on for inscription (when they already blindly follow the communist propaganda) and with 50 million Chinese people already IN AMERICA and more than that IN EUROPE both sides would be in A LOT of trouble.

Its true that their Military capabilities are defensive in nature. This is because of the invasion that Japan staged from province of Manchuria in the second world war. Its made Chinese paranoid ever since.
However now they are taking steps to create a force capable of attacking abroad. BIG STEPS.
See :
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m12 72/is_2715_133/ai_n8549458

We're looking at the China being the worlds most dominate military super power within the next 50 years at the longest.

At 1/19/07 11:35 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: We're looking at the China being the worlds most dominate military super power within the next 50 years at the longest.

China is going to have to steal a lot of our shit if that would ever come to pass.

I say 50 at the least, no other factors considered, like our own spending or possible oil wars, whatever. But with our own current spending and the power we already hold, it is gonna have to be a lot more than 50 for the Chinese to catch up remotely to our development.

At 1/19/07 12:49 PM, Demosthenez wrote:

At 1/19/07 11:35 AM, DJ-Jerakai wrote: We're looking at the China being the worlds most dominate military super power within the next 50 years at the longest.

China is going to have to steal a lot of our shit if that would ever come to pass.

I say 50 at the least, no other factors considered, like our own spending or possible oil wars, whatever. But with our own current spending and the power we already hold, it is gonna have to be a lot more than 50 for the Chinese to catch up remotely to our development.

China already accounts for 12% of the world economy, EU and US both accounting for 17%
But Chinas growing much faster than Both the EU and US who's growth rates are continuly overtaking each other.

It could easily happen in 50 years as long as they don't fuck up.

At 1/19/07 08:31 PM, cellardoor6 wrote:

Europe is only strong when the US leads them. Europe is a lame duck, and China obviously is a future threat, but both Europes location and lack of force projection won't mean dick in a western war against China.

LOL, it would so suck to be European right now.