At 1/2/14 04:05 AM, Cootie wrote: Am I the only one that actually likes the look of older anime much more than modern stuff? Some people think that anime made in the 90's and before looks terrible and dated, but I think the aesthetic is much more pleasing. Something about digitally drawn anime just doesn't look as good to me.

In my eyes modern anime still can't match Akira and it was made in 1988.

Well, kind of. As long as you're not the kind who compares OVAs and movies with bubble economy budgets to regular currently airing TV-series. Anime isn't really that profitable even in Japan, and does have small budgets unless it's Ghibli or something. Most TV-series that had to pay for cels were really limited. Compare Serial Experiments Lain, a TV-series that aired in '98 with Jin-Roh from the same year. Lain hardly moves at all, while Jin-Roh is a movie and can do more. Compare Lain to Haibane Renmei, also a TV-series from the same guys, but a while later without cels and you can see it moving more. I like the way celluloid makes the aesthetic look, but in general the transition to digital has helped the animation aspect by reducing costs for TV series. I've seen lots of movies nowadays that move just as good, like A Letter to Momo that I watched recently. Anime is also not digitally drawn, the final clean up is made on paper with a pen and then scanned. The coloring is what's done digitally, so basically it is the design choices that have changed.

If we disregard the animation and you just like the general trends in character design, I'd agree that I like the 80's at least, even though the shading can get a little much. The 90's went a little too crazy at times, while being really cool at others. The transition to digital coloring in the early 00's was clumsy, but in the late 00's it's better. In general I'm pretty pleased with the aesthetic trends of soft colors and light outlines of the 10's, and also them backgrounds.

Celluloid vs digital is kind of like vinyl vs CD; vinyl has that certain feel but CD is more practical.

Slim pickings for good Winter anime

* Nobunagun
* Robot Girls Z
* Space Dandy (sub vs dub still up for debate)
* Seki-kun: Master of Killing Time

At 1/7/14 06:49 PM, LLStarks wrote: Slim pickings for good Winter anime

* Nobunagun
* Robot Girls Z
* Space Dandy (sub vs dub still up for debate)
* Seki-kun: Master of Killing Time

You could try out Noragami. I found the first episode pretty good.

At 1/7/14 06:49 PM, LLStarks wrote: * Robot Girls Z

The best so far. I recognize almost everything, despite only being familiar with Mazinger from SRW, and I'm fucking hyped for Getta-chan's appearance.

GETTAA TOMAHAWK

I never watched any Mazinger, but I do appreciate Go Nagai's fun and sexy brand of humor.

While I didn't like Enma, this instantly won me over for Robot Girls Z...

At 1/7/14 06:49 PM, LLStarks wrote:

* Space Dandy (sub vs dub still up for debate)

Lets see, from the creator of Bebop and Champloo and the added benefit about not being an anime centered around Japan and is you know, in space and as we all know English is the universal language. Does it constitute a debate?

Also watching Kill La Kill finally. good lord I like this.

Space Dandy dub has huge problems

* Dialogue changed to make main female look like a clueless background character
* Opening, ending, and eyecatches removed
* Will take half a year longer than the official subs to come out on DVD/BD despite airing first
* Funi is treating the whole thing like a gag dub much to the dismay of the show's staff

And yes, still watching Kill la Kill

Dat Nui

At 1/10/14 12:35 PM, LLStarks wrote: Space Dandy dub has huge problems

* Dialogue changed to make main female look like a clueless background character
* Opening, ending, and eyecatches removed
* Will take half a year longer than the official subs to come out on DVD/BD despite airing first
* Funi is treating the whole thing like a gag dub much to the dismay of the show's staff

And yet, the voice cast is going to be amazing and be an improvement over the original. Cause I am the type of person who doesn't give a shit as long as it sounds good and I hate elitest cunts that treat anime dubbing like the fucking apocalypse. It's going to be good, and cite your sources too.

At 1/9/14 09:33 PM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote: Does it constitute a debate?

Yes. The Cowbop dub is good but it definitely doesn't match the japanese cast imo.

I prefer Cowboy Bebop dub over sub. Still haven't watched Space Dandy, though.

GunXSword's dub > original

I'm really surprised that it turned out so great, easily one of the best dubs out there. David Vincent did a spectacular job as Van's VA, as did the other people.

Priscilla was best girl

At 1/11/14 01:00 PM, towelie101 wrote: GunXSword's dub > original

Never seen it but yeah, sometimes the dub of an anime is just better than the original audio.

At 1/11/14 12:33 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: I prefer Cowboy Bebop dub over sub. Still haven't watched Space Dandy, though.

So did the person who composed the theme for Bebop.

Cowboy Bebop may have raise the bar when it comes to the quality of the dub, too bad we can't expect the same for other anime series.

Is it bad that I'm still holding a slim hope for the English dub of Fist of the North Star to happen? Not counting the aborted dub in the late 1990s that is.

At 1/11/14 04:03 AM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote:

At 1/10/14 12:35 PM, LLStarks wrote: Space Dandy dub has huge problems

* Dialogue changed to make main female look like a clueless background character
* Opening, ending, and eyecatches removed
* Will take half a year longer than the official subs to come out on DVD/BD despite airing first
* Funi is treating the whole thing like a gag dub much to the dismay of the show's staff

And yet, the voice cast is going to be amazing and be an improvement over the original. Cause I am the type of person who doesn't give a shit as long as it sounds good and I hate elitest cunts that treat anime dubbing like the fucking apocalypse. It's going to be good, and cite your sources too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1uh99q/japanese_animator_on_space_dandy_condemns_english/cei5bbt

At 1/11/14 05:05 PM, LLStarks wrote:

At 1/11/14 04:03 AM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote:

At 1/10/14 12:35 PM, LLStarks wrote: Space Dandy dub has huge problems

* Dialogue changed to make main female look like a clueless background character
* Opening, ending, and eyecatches removed
* Will take half a year longer than the official subs to come out on DVD/BD despite airing first
* Funi is treating the whole thing like a gag dub much to the dismay of the show's staff

And yet, the voice cast is going to be amazing and be an improvement over the original. Cause I am the type of person who doesn't give a shit as long as it sounds good and I hate elitest cunts that treat anime dubbing like the fucking apocalypse. It's going to be good, and cite your sources too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1uh99q/japanese_animator_on_space_dandy_condemns_english/cei5bbt

Okay, so making a huge deal about nothing and as the redditor notes they WILL have to develop their character anyway and after the edits made by the topic creator its notes that the Japanese Animator has been talking with Toonami and Watanabe. And has been deleting his tweets where as Toonami's rep hasn't which is usually the sign of he's "getting into a lot of shit" from his superior which would be Watanabe.. Dissension, is good, calling shit out is good, making a huge deal over a few cheesy lines is not smart. Remember this is only the FIRST FUCKING SPISODE. This animator seems to be the only one throwing his arms up in the air and shouting "BETRAYAL" when he's only seen the first bit. Does it mean it's going to be consistent? No. And Funi does have problems, how Funi works is the individual actors record all their lines separately and it's all mixed in later. Rarely do all the actors record their lines together and Funimaton really likes "one take wonders" as in if they can nail the line in one take they are pretty much the go to guy or gal for the role. This is Of course from my knowledge and experience talking to Funi actors about how things work. But they are good. Funimation is around because they realized that the industry is dying and they have to improve it. No one is going to buy a series for 40 to 70 dollars with little to no content so they've actually took the steps to make it worth money and offer just the show on their own sites, with ads mind you but animation costs money HWAHHHHHHHHHHH. This is going to be a wait an see sort of thing. It's 2014 and people are still forever and ever going to be arguing about the merits of dubs and the negatives. I'd rather not fight an unwinnable battle because both extremes are retarded and it comes to a war of cocks vs cunts.

At 1/11/14 02:02 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote:

I have to agree with the Kat here, I think the dub (so far) was fantastic, and the fact that we've only seen one episode means that maybe we need to pump the brakes on what language is better until we've seen some more episodes. Not to mention, it is 2014, and dubs have advanced far beyond what it was 20 or even 10 years ago in terms of quality and accuracy. Though personally, I usually stay out of these debates because they have their moments and merits, and it generally isn't worth fighting over, especially over modern anime.

Cowboy Bebop may have raise the bar when it comes to the quality of the dub, too bad we can't expect the same for other anime series.

It also helps that it was a show that was more catered towards what Westerners were more familiar with, and it was episodic as well, which at the time was popular with western animation at the time. That show proves that anime can have a good English dub, and pretty much stepped up their game for future dubs as well.

Is it bad that I'm still holding a slim hope for the English dub of Fist of the North Star to happen? Not counting the aborted dub in the late 1990s that is.

IIRC, Discotek Media has the rights to the anime for distribution here, but they have a no-dub policy other than any previous dubs beforehand. I guess it's better than nothing though, and certainly before when they were in limbo just a few years back.

Actually, it would honestly be kind of funny if Spike Spencer ever voiced Kenshiro in an English dub, and a little weird too.

At 1/11/14 08:25 PM, orangebomb wrote:

Actually, it would honestly be kind of funny if Spike Spencer ever voiced Kenshiro in an English dub, and a little weird too.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sabat's the one to voice Roah, it would have been pretty fitting. Plus, many of the characters voiced by Kenji Utsumi are dubbed by Sabat in English version so why not?

I for one do not care for English dubs. While some voice actors are good, I'm not going to deny that, going with dubs is always a gamble. Since most anime doesn't have such a big budget, and anime isn't very profitable over here in the west, in 9/10 cases I've found you'll get some pretty bad voice overs. That is unless it's incredibly mainstream like Samurai Champloo or something, but you'll exhaust those fast. A big issue is also that there are a lot of nuances lost in translation when scripts are reworked, which is the main reason I don't watch dubs. I'd understand if you dislike the sound of the Japanese language, but if you don't and you aren't illiterate, being "an elitist cunt" is always a safer bet.

watched a series called Kaiba recently, one of the most melancholy beautiful anime i've ever seen. Really unique animation/art style too which i'm a sucker for, and a wonderful ost.

unfortunately imo it suffers from one of my anime pet peeves: going from a relatively simple episodic theme which works fine to a sudden 3deep5u mindfuck ending. Other than that 10/10

At 1/12/14 08:36 PM, JaY11 wrote: watched a series called Kaiba recently, one of the most melancholy beautiful anime i've ever seen. Really unique animation/art style too which i'm a sucker for, and a wonderful ost.

I've been meaning to watch Kaiba. It's directed by Yuasa Masaaki, who also did Kemonozume, Mind Game, and the Genius Party short, Happy Machine, which I think are all fantastic. He also did Kick Heart, which I don't really know what to think of. My favorite work lf his I've seen is definitely Kemonozume.

You can watch Happy Machine on YouTube. It's one of my favorite segments from Genius Party. Genius Party and Genius Party Beyond are still super underrated. There are a lot of good short Japanese animations that are overlooked.

At 1/12/14 01:24 PM, Nevermind wrote: I for one do not care for English dubs. While some voice actors are good, I'm not going to deny that, going with dubs is always a gamble. Since most anime doesn't have such a big budget, and anime isn't very profitable over here in the west, in 9/10 cases I've found you'll get some pretty bad voice overs. That is unless it's incredibly mainstream like Samurai Champloo or something, but you'll exhaust those fast. A big issue is also that there are a lot of nuances lost in translation when scripts are reworked, which is the main reason I don't watch dubs. I'd understand if you dislike the sound of the Japanese language, but if you don't and you aren't illiterate, being "an elitist cunt" is always a safer bet.

1. No, I like both versions, I can read subtitles just fine and I like the japanese voices. However, I do find certain anime more engaging in English. It's not that anime isn't profitable in the west, its mostly how much do those anime dvds cost which is a pricey business when you can download or stream for free. Hence why cruchyroll and Funimation exist, so anime can make a bit of money either by subscriptions or ads. And you have to justify charging 50 dollars for a season of an anime. Every DVD gets both languages but if thats just all it is than its hard to sell the things. Special features, commentary tracks, etc. then we are on to something. And of course there is going to be a lot of losses in translations and unless you can understand Japanese to a 90% degree of accuracy you're STILL going to lose a lot in undubbed subtitles anyway. The translators will attempt to explain it but it's not going to be a perfect explanation. particles and honorifics are damn near impossible to translates. They rely on phrasing and sentence structure to make them work with the context of what's being said and translated. Scripts are entitled to reworking. You can't adapt something straight up without some revisions being made. Books get this treatment, comics get this treatment, manga gets it and when translating any of these things they are going to get the same fucking treatment. So if you have an issue with little quirks being lost in translation, better learn Japanese cause you aren't going to get better than that. And hate to tell you this, Champloo while a really good anime and had a excellent English adaption was 10 years ago. Something more recent that has a really killer dub was Baccano! Fate/Zero has a really good English cast too.. Point is this 9/10 this is more like 2/3 Most animes now have a good voice cast, even if the voice actors aren't super 100% to the original actors because they aren't meant to be; they can get close, but actors aren't supposed to imitate who came before, they're supposed to make it their own.

You're allowed to freely choose what you want to watch and I am not going to hold it against you. However, it's just ignorant to assume something is bad cause of reasons that are redundant at best. And no, being a cunt is not a safe bet, it's a wall.

At 1/12/14 10:55 PM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote:

1. No, I like both versions, I can read subtitles just fine and I like the japanese voices. However, I do find certain anime more engaging in English. It's not that anime isn't profitable in the west, its mostly how much do those anime dvds cost which is a pricey business when you can download or stream for free. Hence why cruchyroll and Funimation exist, so anime can make a bit of money either by subscriptions or ads. And you have to justify charging 50 dollars for a season of an anime. Every DVD gets both languages but if thats just all it is than its hard to sell the things. Special features, commentary tracks, etc. then we are on to something. And of course there is going to be a lot of losses in translations and unless you can understand Japanese to a 90% degree of accuracy you're STILL going to lose a lot in undubbed subtitles anyway. The translators will attempt to explain it but it's not going to be a perfect explanation. particles and honorifics are damn near impossible to translates. They rely on phrasing and sentence structure to make them work with the context of what's being said and translated. Scripts are entitled to reworking. You can't adapt something straight up without some revisions being made. Books get this treatment, comics get this treatment, manga gets it and when translating any of these things they are going to get the same fucking treatment. So if you have an issue with little quirks being lost in translation, better learn Japanese cause you aren't going to get better than that. And hate to tell you this, Champloo while a really good anime and had a excellent English adaption was 10 years ago. Something more recent that has a really killer dub was Baccano! Fate/Zero has a really good English cast too.. Point is this 9/10 this is more like 2/3 Most animes now have a good voice cast, even if the voice actors aren't super 100% to the original actors because they aren't meant to be; they can get close, but actors aren't supposed to imitate who came before, they're supposed to make it their own.

You're allowed to freely choose what you want to watch and I am not going to hold it against you. However, it's just ignorant to assume something is bad cause of reasons that are redundant at best. And no, being a cunt is not a safe bet, it's a wall.

I don't completely disagree, but I will firmly stick to the around 9/10 range. Anime dubs didn't come close to good until the mid 90's, and even then were very few in number. Just because they have gotten better nowadays doesn't mean the god awful ones of the 80's American licensed VHS releases have vanished. I also do think actors ought to stay as close to the one before as possible without sounding uninspired, because that will be closer to what the staff intended. Also, if you do watch a lot of anime you could study a little Japanese to understand those particles and honorifics. You don't even need to be advanced to hear a difference, while you of course won't catch everything (with this said I'm not implying you definitely haven't). Finally, I was putting cunt in citations because I don't think it's being a cunt to always bet on something the way it was originally made. Watch what you want, but my two cents are that one is more likely to find good voices in the original version.

Matt's absolutely right. There are a great many animes these days that have very good dubs. Definitely more than one out of ten. And things are indeed lost in translation even if you're watching it subbed. I find people who refuse to watch dubs to be annoying. Worse, though, is people who can't watch anything subtitled. I remember going to see Pan's Labyrinth and a bunch of people walked out of the theater when they realized they had to read. God forbid, right? If you're like that, I don't like you.

At 1/14/14 06:33 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Matt's absolutely right. There are a great many animes these days that have very good dubs. Definitely more than one out of ten. And things are indeed lost in translation even if you're watching it subbed. I find people who refuse to watch dubs to be annoying. Worse, though, is people who can't watch anything subtitled. I remember going to see Pan's Labyrinth and a bunch of people walked out of the theater when they realized they had to read. God forbid, right? If you're like that, I don't like you.

I'm with you on this one, especially on the last part.

Guess people are just illiterate (I know I'm throwing that term liberally but still, kinda had this problem with these kind of people ever since I read that YT comment years ago where one guy said he's glad Harry Potter movies were made so he won't have to read it).

At 1/14/14 07:10 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote:

At 1/14/14 06:33 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

Guess people are just illiterate (I know I'm throwing that term liberally but still, kinda had this problem with these kind of people ever since I read that YT comment years ago where one guy said he's glad Harry Potter movies were made so he won't have to read it).

well books take a lot longer to go through than films so i think that's reasonable, i always go for the film version.

At 1/14/14 07:10 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote:

At 1/14/14 06:33 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: Matt's absolutely right. There are a great many animes these days that have very good dubs. Definitely more than one out of ten. And things are indeed lost in translation even if you're watching it subbed. I find people who refuse to watch dubs to be annoying. Worse, though, is people who can't watch anything subtitled. I remember going to see Pan's Labyrinth and a bunch of people walked out of the theater when they realized they had to read. God forbid, right? If you're like that, I don't like you.

That's honestly shocking to see, but not surprising. As much as I try to remain neutral on all this sub vs dub debates, I just can't imagine anyone watching the Japanese audio without subtitles unless they have a decent mastery of the Japanese language and all of the inflections and cultural stuff that most people don't know about.

It is also worth noting that dubs today were far better in terms of quality and VAs than it was in the 90s, (which is partly why anime like Akira got a re-dub) and in turn, the 90s dub were better than anything before it, though not by much. There is a good reason why Funimation are well liked and respected within the anime community both here and in Japan, they are able to listen to their fans and generally hire excellent VAs for most of their anime.

I might be paraphrasing the quote, but Johnny Yong Bosch stated that "we are voice actors, not voice intimidators." That's pretty much the whole point of dubbed anime in the first place.

Guess people are just illiterate (I know I'm throwing that term liberally but still, kinda had this problem with these kind of people ever since I read that YT comment years ago where one guy said he's glad Harry Potter movies were made so he won't have to read it).

Part of them may be truly illiterate, but I would say that most of them are just that fucking lazy if they can't bother to read subtitles. Not every foreign movie or show will have a shot-for-shot remake with an English dub, so if you like foreign movies that aren't in English, better learn to watch with subtitles or you're SOL.

At 1/14/14 08:19 PM, DeIirium wrote:

well books take a lot longer to go through than films so i think that's reasonable, i always go for the film version.

Thus missing out what the movie would change or left out.

Just started Kill la Kill. Holy shit its like FLCL all over again and thats a good thing

Will Watamote get a second season? Is Sword Art Online getting a second season, too? These questions keep me awake.

Will Outlaw Star get a sec....