I think adjusting the ratings grid with an 18+ checkbox is a great idea! Don't feel bad for being the subject of discourse rn, cause honestly this is a problem that needed discussing, and NOW it's finally happening. Even if i dont see the appeal in your work/fetish I certainly dont want you to feel un-welcome on the website. There's plenty of content not for me that's usually well hidden behind the content filters.

Once one person speaks up group backlash is just bound to happen which is why i say keeping A rated content off the frontpage is there to protect both the underage and the content's creator. You rarely want niche content like that to leave its own echo chamber

I hate 1st and 2nd place submissions

Very disappointed as burden.

I think what fucking happened was the people who made the first 2 this listed saw the words hottest games and movies submitted to the Portal and thought that it means literally I swear the game that won the treasure hunt is probably better then the two movies that won first and second place congrats to the rest starting at third place witch I will now call first place

First off, thank you for entertaining my interpretation of the rules as sensible and admitting there is room for interpretation. I salute the good faith, and I would be remiss not to credit it.

That said, I think we've come to the difference in values for which all of our previous discussion has apparently been a proxy and which is probably irreconcilable.

You view the staff/mods who rated Twerkout 2 as "M" and the literally thousands of users who did not dispute that rating and--in fact--upvoted the entry to #1 on p-bot as "nobody" in comparison to a small cabal of "respected" users who post to the BBS. You don't view creators like @Prevence or @Kittyhawk as a legitimately talented, creative, and deserving creators but as-you-say "leeches". You view the p-bot award as editorial.

In contrast, I view the *popularity* award as being just that: a chance for "the people" on the site to voice their opinions as to what's great outside of--and yes--sometimes in opposition to the editorial opinions and maybe even "the rules" of the rest of the front page. I'm biased when it comes to @Kittyhawk, but I respect and look up to @Prevence and anyone else who's built a following here on NG. I welcome those from other sites such as Tumblr, rather than trying to exclude them or mock them for it. I am not so arrogant as to suggest removing what might conservatively be 80% of the site's userbase (the "hornies") and think the suggestion isn't dramatic because I happen not to like them or resent their sliding content I want to be featured off the front page.

I can't imagine how there could be anything more in the spirit of "Everything by Everyone" than a straight up vote and I think that moving away from that is moving away from that principal. If I'm wrong about that, I'm just wrong.

That rule being up to interpretation is actually a bad thing. It's why we're in this situation in the first place. But I'm pretty certain the "fetish content" rule was put in place specifically to stop "hornybait" content from winning awards.

It was introduced last year alongside a rule addressing "comic dubs", most of which were posted by adult creators such as joaoppereiraus (around that time PixieWillow was also posting other peoples' works as "sound" around the same time, which would've violated a different rule, the "You must be the creator and owner" rule)

Both rules were added around the same time in early 2022.

Here's what a lot of NSFW authors do here. They don't see NG as anything more than a platform to promote their crap and plug their Patreon (example). They're not incentivised to be creative or passionate, but rather to make money in a very lucrative environment, regardless of their artistic talent or not. So yes, that's literally leeching off of NG. Neither of those two are exactly as bad as what I've described:

Kittyhawk is actually not too bad when it comes to this whole thing. Sure, she posts 6-10 18+ panels a day (out of 270 total), and her comics (Paradise Slice comes to mimd), are incredibly basic compared to other "games", but they do hold some redeeming qualities. Writing + storytelling are all good and her art is great. She also does interact with the NG community, participating in a couple of Jams, congratulating some of the winners, and you two even released a couple of utilities aimed at NG artists (they might be outdated once the major Art Portal update releases, but hey it's the thought that counts).

I'd also argue that Benek99's submission is the worse offender than Prevence. It's a 1 second loop stretched out to 30 seconds, and overall they take a quantity vs quality approach. Prevence only ever posted 3 movies, (the other two got similar results here, but not as bad), whereas Benek had over a dozen (some of them deleted bc they didn't have sound), so IMO Benek's worse, but they're still both "hornybait" first and foremost, and the fact that they both won the top 2 spots on the same day is a key reason why this blowback is as big as it is now.

Just because you see only a small percent of the userbase complain about a problem, doesn't mean it's still a problem. For reference, only 2-3 people ever post on the Daily Picks threads to congratulate the winners, usually @Cyberdevil.

The fact that such a controversial topic here with up to 20 times more replies, and people who don't really complain about stuff, start complaining, should be enough of an indicator that something is wrong and needs to be resolved.

I respect and look up to people who've expressed genuine skill + talent + creativity regardless of their following. As I mentioned above, most authors who post erotic/pornographic content aren't really incentivised to support Newgrounds or to use it more than just free promotion, nor to push the ceiling in terms of quality content. There are exceptions, but for every Derpixon or Speedoru there's like 60 GIDDORA's and about 9 Benek99's, so based on their track record, I can't really see NSFW creators in the same light, unless they are, again, one of the few with exceptional redeeming qualities.

The A-rated animation scene was a lot different before the Tumblr migrants came along. Search for any pre-2018 animations with only the A filter on. While it's still pornographic in nature, it's not as flooded with crappy loops as it is today, nor do I recall anyone complaining prior to 2021.

But then again, this is Tom Fulp's site and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he only cared about traffic + money. he'd probably cater exclusively to the 80% of the userbase that are "hornies" and sweeping us 20% under the rug. But he doesn't. He cares about the community and especially cares about the people who care back and keeping the 2 decade old community alive while still trying to make everyone on here happy.

@anonymous-frog You're clearly passionate about this community and I don't want to stifle that, because I am too. 

Like you said, this is Tom's site. All threads like this can do in terms of concrete changes is make suggestions, but we can all contribute to the overall culture. If you really do appreciate what me and Kittyhawk try to contribute, please hear me when I say that a huge portion of the NSFW artist here make it their primary online presence by choice and care passionately about NG. They very often want to be more than just the economic engine that keeps the lights on so that the site exist. They want to do more of the kinds of work that you want them to do. You are not guilty of this, but a big barrier to that is people trying to draw a clean "dividing" line between the kinds of art on this site and not letting contributors "do both".

We all need to be a little more open to "everything by everyone".

You didn't do anything wrong! The problem is the rating system being flawed (what constitutes "some" or "lots" of "adult themes" is very arbitrary), and the fact that Daily Picks is the primary means of which content ends up being featured automatically by popularity, rather than hand picked by moderation.

I feel really bad for you that you took the blunt of the backlash just because the video you posted getting awarded was the "last straw" for people who have been frustrated with the system for a long time. Even as someone who would rather not see the kind of videos you make myself, I can see you put a lot of work into the animation, and your work deserves to be seen by the people who are looking for that kind of stuff. The blame is on Newgrounds for failing to curate featured content to its intended target audience.

Honestly I think it would be a mistake to completely remove the current voting system we have on Newgrounds, you don't see any star-based review system elsewhere on the internet today, and its one of those things that I feel makes NG unique and it just would never feel right to have that removed imo, though I do feel like there should be some kind of overhaul to how the P-Bot works.

As someone who has seen both the SFW side of NG and, under an alt, the NSFW side and enjoys a bit of both depending on mood and when I'm online, I have already in the past liked the idea of mandatory tagging/a default tag filter, albeit realizing NG may not have the resources to quickly tag all older submissions from before a hypothetical regulation was introduced.

Wasn't thinking about P-Bot at the time, but, revisiting the suggestion, I do feel as if Newgrounds could have a "block suggestive/adult content" toggle based on the tags and rating, similar to another website I sometimes visit, which has also featured adult content in the past, without the controversy, which could maybe be designed in a way to have P-Bot provide an SFW version of its posts for those with the toggle on, and an NSFW version for those that want that. Admittedly not sure how practical it is here though, given P-Bot uses the BBS as an archive of sorts, which the other site doesn't do, and, having just come up with it, the BBS using the rating system to solve this issue with my idea for P-Bot might be a bit band-aidy. Maybe P-Bot could get its own, non-BBS-based archive page if such a system was in place?

As of the time of posting this it is really late in my timezone, but, didn't want to forget my suggestion and, since reading this thread and the controversy surrounding P-Bot's choices, I felt like it would be a good idea to share the suggestion here while all the talk of the rating system, voting and this bot in particular are going, given the apparent flaws with how P-Bot makes its choices, and the clash with highly-sexual-but-M rated material and unique art projects we've seen today.

HAPPY TWO DAYS AFTER MEMORIAL DAY, CYBERDEVIL!!!

If it did, I bet it was probably due to funny incidents like this.

You don't owe him anything. Do what you do best and create what content you wish.

Movies, Games, Audio, Art: none.

Why don't you give it a try?

Oldest trick in the book

Winning popular vote by yourself. Why don't you give it a try?

HAPPY... NINE DAYS AFTER THAT AND A DAY AFTER SWEDEN'S NATIONAL DAY NOW NABELLA!!!

Most definitely probably! Back in the day there was a lot more discussion on which submissions deserved what they got too... now that it's no longer a norm all opinions seem to weigh so much more heavily, it's fascinating really, critique really gets taken to heart now...

(I know this is old news at this point, but I'd like to add my two cents. I think it's important to mention)

Tom, while this is a good idea on paper, I REALLY don't want to see this executed. What you are forgetting is that there are many benefits to having the Daily 5 around. Personally, whenever I have gotten a trophy or an award of some kind on this site, I have seen it as a MASSIVE honor, and I don't think I am alone on that. The awards give me something to look forward to whenever I create something, because it feels like my hard work has paid off. And when I don't, it gives me incentive for me to keep working and improving, and figuring out what I did wrong and right.

As silly as it sounds, the Daily 5 means a lot to me, and I don't think I am alone on that statement considering how much of a point of debate it is in this thread.

Also, I literally cannot imagine Newgrounds without the trophies. It has become such a staple of what makes Newgrounds stick out from the crowd, and ties together it's overall theme of community. Sure, you can remove these things, but Newgrounds CERTAINLY would not feel the same.

Of course, this might be just me, and I really don't want anybody harassed from the Top 5, but regardless it would be a very drastic measure removing it outright. Alternatively, maybe we can make a separate top 5 for the NSFW... it would be much more fitting for them to be separate, to protect the non interested (and minors, obviously). I'm aware that this plan has flaws, but I'm just spitballing. My point is that there are many alternatives that we can use instead of just killing the Daily 5 all together, considering it's status on Newgrounds.

In the end though, it is your decision. But I would appreciate if you considered what I have said here. I am aware that you literally know Newgrounds from the inside out, and hell, I've only been on this site for about 4 years. I am also aware that there are things that I am probably missing... but I do believe that there is significance to the Daily 5, and I hope there is something else we can do instead of just killing it off.

-Jonah G

I’d recommend just a Weekly 5 for them, that’s it. They don’t deserve all of our praise.

Maybe, yeah, but my point was that there are several solutions that can be created aside from just removing the Daily 5 outright. The NSFW daily 5 is one of the many solutions that can be made. I suggest that maybe this thread can turn into a solution to the NSFW issue, so we can all work together to find out what we can do about it that doesn't involve getting rid of NSFW outright and/or removing the top 5. (Or maybe we can create a new thread, considering this thread is like 4 months old now lol)

This seems like a good solution. It gives them something, without removing the daily top five. Both sides should be happy.

At 5/29/23 09:04 PM, YendorNG wrote:

t always has to get shoehorned in there. Maybe it would be a step towards removing scores altogether.

Not much people want to screw system, just sometimes people are doing SFW stuff for LULz.

When I feel bored from horny stuff, I do a stupid memes, like this one:

Keep posting stuff mate, you are doing all good.