I think it really depends, if you're trying to give out constructive feedback/criticism. But if you just "fix" art to be a dick or just change the skin color, then that's not giving out constructive feedback, you're just being an asshole. What do you artists think?
Crazy? I was crazy once.
Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-05 13:37:50 (edited 2022-09-05 13:38:46)
yes,it's disgusting and uncalled for,typical SJW behavior on twitter by twats who can't find something good to do with themselves.
the last thing we need is having people mistake them for legit constructive criticism and paintovers given by respectful people in good light,those are a true blessing
At 9/5/22 01:37 PM, pointlessfield wrote: yes,it's disgusting and uncalled for,typical SJW behavior on twitter by twats who can't find something good to do with themselves.
the last thing we need is having people mistake them for legit constructive criticism and paintovers given by respectful people in good light,those are a true blessing
People on YouTube that are part of the Art Community have made some great videos about this.
This really is a serious topic to be discussed.
Crazy? I was crazy once.
If it wasn't asked for then it's a massive "piece of shit move". I think I ranted about this once in the forums.
Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-05 14:27:33 (edited 2022-09-05 14:30:46)
When it comes to the art of other amateurs: Ideally, if it’s asked for. If not that, in the context of criticism, if it stays contained within the context of replying to the artist, rather than being announced to the world. For instance, on NG, if someone said my feedback on their art wasn’t clear, I might go “okay, here’s my attempt at the same thing”, and send it to them as a dump file or in a forum reply.
And for professionals: If it’s treated the right way. For instance, videos with the idea of “here’s what I’d do if it had been me in charge of designing this character, based on my own personal preferences”, or “here’s a more culturally accurate version of this character based on my own expertise with the culture in question”, as long as it isn’t lorded over the original. I love redesigning things as a creative exercise - in fact, I’m actually interested in starting some kind of art jam where everyone is invited to “fix” one of my old OCs in their own way - but posturing is posturing, no matter how much work goes into it.
Someone please help me revive my clubs
That term is a cringe trend embarked upon by self-righteous jerks. You can redraw, redesign, or heck even make weird ocs based on other people's works, but claiming your way is better when nobody asked for your opinion is arrogant and unnecessarily antagonizing. (Though note there are sometimes a case for things that people generally agree on being terrible like that bizarre original look for the live action Sonic movie but it was a community movement, not some pompous rando)
Is it really problematic though? Enough to warrant banning/fighting against this trend? Ehhh, there are worse trends out there. If it isn't anything criminal there really is no point attacking people who do this because a lot of them really just do it for the attention and you'd be feeding them precisely that. Like any other unsavory internet trend, I'd say the best thing we can do is just distance ourselves, occasionally point out the bad, and laugh at these people making clowns of themselves.
peskytarian
At 9/5/22 04:47 PM, fleeaai wrote:At 9/5/22 01:57 PM, misterbright wrote: If it wasn't asked for then it's a massive "piece of shit move". I think I ranted about this once in the forums.I agree with you in principle, but I will have to ask you not to use western as a dirty word no matter how mad you are at SJW artists
I think the meme used the term western artist to show some guy making an excuse of his work being the way it is because he's 'western inspired"
Also isnt 60% of the SJW agenda is to hate the west?
The word "problematic" is problematic.
but to answer the question if it's over something petty and retarded like a a brown character drawn a shade too pale it's annoying especially when those guys would draw white guys a shade darker on purpose and call it a day.
Ok boomer.
At 9/5/22 05:00 PM, fleeaai wrote:At 9/5/22 04:57 PM, pointlessfield wrote:I've seen plenty of Anti SJW individuals full hate the west and praise japan as the holy land. I don't wish to put misterbright in the same boat, not at all.At 9/5/22 04:47 PM, fleeaai wrote:I think the meme used the term western artist to show some guy making an excuse of his work being the way it is because he's 'western inspired"At 9/5/22 01:57 PM, misterbright wrote: If it wasn't asked for then it's a massive "piece of shit move". I think I ranted about this once in the forums.I agree with you in principle, but I will have to ask you not to use western as a dirty word no matter how mad you are at SJW artists
Also isnt 60% of the SJW agenda is to hate the west?
As much as i see anti SJWs in the same coin as SJWs....atleast they praise japan and not complete dictatorships
I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.
I've yet to see a professional level art teacher or mentor conduct a critique in such a public and emotionally abusive manner. And what's the point if art is subjective? It's entirely a clout-chasing maneuver, bonus points if you somehow manage to weaponize politics in the process. We'll see if art fixers learn their lesson eventually, they sure didn't after the 4chan trolling Steven Universe tumblr event.
I only like it when it's constructive and the person asked for it. Otherwise, it's unnecessary and rude.
I especially will say this if it has anything to do with skin color. Most people color characters lighter either for lighting reasons or because they don't have access to tutorials on how to paint people with darker skin. If you really and truly have an issue with how someone paints certain skin colors, calmly let them know and ask if they need help on it. Never assume the worst, because that's when sparks fly.
At 9/5/22 05:00 PM, fleeaai wrote:At 9/5/22 04:57 PM, pointlessfield wrote:I've seen plenty of Anti SJW individuals full hate the west and praise japan as the holy land. I don't wish to put misterbright in the same boat, not at all.At 9/5/22 04:47 PM, fleeaai wrote:I think the meme used the term western artist to show some guy making an excuse of his work being the way it is because he's 'western inspired"At 9/5/22 01:57 PM, misterbright wrote: If it wasn't asked for then it's a massive "piece of shit move". I think I ranted about this once in the forums.I agree with you in principle, but I will have to ask you not to use western as a dirty word no matter how mad you are at SJW artists
Also isnt 60% of the SJW agenda is to hate the west?
....it was literally just a meme I found on google images
At 9/5/22 07:54 PM, fleeaai wrote:At 9/5/22 07:45 PM, misterbright wrote:How was I supposed to know that? I've seen so much culture-waring that it may have (figuratively) given me PTSD.At 9/5/22 05:00 PM, fleeaai wrote:....it was literally just a meme I found on google imagesAt 9/5/22 04:57 PM, pointlessfield wrote:I've seen plenty of Anti SJW individuals full hate the west and praise japan as the holy land. I don't wish to put misterbright in the same boat, not at all.At 9/5/22 04:47 PM, fleeaai wrote:I think the meme used the term western artist to show some guy making an excuse of his work being the way it is because he's 'western inspired"At 9/5/22 01:57 PM, misterbright wrote: If it wasn't asked for then it's a massive "piece of shit move". I think I ranted about this once in the forums.I agree with you in principle, but I will have to ask you not to use western as a dirty word no matter how mad you are at SJW artists
Also isnt 60% of the SJW agenda is to hate the west?
Don't instantly start assuming things about someone you dont even know. I didn't even say a word about japan or "western" or whatever.
At 9/5/22 08:00 PM, fleeaai wrote:At 9/5/22 07:58 PM, misterbright wrote:Dude, what I"m trying to say, is that I've seen so much of the culture war-ing that pretty much everyone has lost the benefit of the doubt. All it took was the meme, nothing else you said. Am I just really jaded? Hell yeah. I am very jaded and assume the worst of everyone. But it isn't without merit.At 9/5/22 07:54 PM, fleeaai wrote:Don't instantly start assuming things about someone you dont even know. I didn't even say a word about japan or "western" or whatever.At 9/5/22 07:45 PM, misterbright wrote:How was I supposed to know that? I've seen so much culture-waring that it may have (figuratively) given me PTSD.At 9/5/22 05:00 PM, fleeaai wrote:....it was literally just a meme I found on google imagesAt 9/5/22 04:57 PM, pointlessfield wrote:I've seen plenty of Anti SJW individuals full hate the west and praise japan as the holy land. I don't wish to put misterbright in the same boat, not at all.At 9/5/22 04:47 PM, fleeaai wrote:I think the meme used the term western artist to show some guy making an excuse of his work being the way it is because he's 'western inspired"At 9/5/22 01:57 PM, misterbright wrote: If it wasn't asked for then it's a massive "piece of shit move". I think I ranted about this once in the forums.I agree with you in principle, but I will have to ask you not to use western as a dirty word no matter how mad you are at SJW artists
Also isnt 60% of the SJW agenda is to hate the west?
i don't care. I don't like when people assume things about me. Don't do it again.
It's definitely dependent on context. Consent makes all the difference. If someone's literally asking for crits or advice, submitting their work to a streamer or some kind of content creator knowing that that's what they do, then paintovers, redraws, "fixes" etc. are totally fair game.
It gets weird when they didn't ask for it. Depending on context, it could be downright malicious. I think this is a concern for content creators too, since it's hard to verify every submission they get, and sometimes people will submit other people's art to troll by proxy. Hard to have nice things these days.
I think that giving an artist some tips to improve certain things like anatomy or whatever is ok, but changing the whole damn character to the point you can barely recognize it just so it adjust to your own agenda and claim that you fixed it, then that's disgusting.
(・∀・)
Nope. If you can't take a rando fixing your art then it's not the "fixing" that's the problem, it's your own insecurities.
Want to prevent it? Get so good that the skill gap between you and those randos increases. That's why this is a problem with tweens, beginners, and sensitive types.
Make Newgrounds Great Again! Moderation should be fair, not abused.
At 9/5/22 01:32 PM, Prismisho wrote: I think it really depends, if you're trying to give out constructive feedback/criticism. But if you just "fix" art to be a dick or just change the skin color, then that's not giving out constructive feedback, you're just being an asshole. What do you artists think?
Generally considered a dick move. Insults the artist's ability and original vision by implying their art is Horribly Flawed and Must Be Fixed.
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Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-06 22:26:05 (edited 2022-09-06 22:29:19)
At 9/5/22 05:50 PM, MysteryIDK wrote: I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.
I've yet to see a professional level art teacher or mentor conduct a critique in such a public and emotionally abusive manner. And what's the point if art is subjective? It's entirely a clout-chasing maneuver, bonus points if you somehow manage to weaponize politics in the process. We'll see if art fixers learn their lesson eventually, they sure didn't after the 4chan trolling Steven Universe tumblr event.
Hmm, this is a small pet peeve of mine so forgive me for singling you out, but only the assessment of art is subjective...because different people value different qualities in art. Drawing itself, especially Illustration has qualities that can be measured and compared. You cant hide behind "art is whatever you want it to be" as an excuse for making bad illustrations, there are many fail states to the goal of effective illustration, design and animation. You can OBJECTIVELY be bad at art (illustration).
Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-06 23:15:01 (edited 2022-09-06 23:16:13)
At 9/6/22 10:26 PM, Template88 wrote:At 9/5/22 05:50 PM, MysteryIDK wrote: I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.Hmm, this is a small pet peeve of mine so forgive me for singling you out, but only the assessment of art is subjective...because different people value different qualities in art. Drawing itself, especially Illustration has qualities that can be measured and compared. You cant hide behind "art is whatever you want it to be" as an excuse for making bad illustrations, there are many fail states to the goal of effective illustration, design and animation. You can OBJECTIVELY be bad at art (illustration).
I've yet to see a professional level art teacher or mentor conduct a critique in such a public and emotionally abusive manner. And what's the point if art is subjective? It's entirely a clout-chasing maneuver, bonus points if you somehow manage to weaponize politics in the process. We'll see if art fixers learn their lesson eventually, they sure didn't after the 4chan trolling Steven Universe tumblr event.
Yeah, I pretty much totally agree, I'd just rather say the shorthand that everyone can recognize more easily, rather than bother to try and fully explain the specific delineation between being Good and Bad at art in terms of certain art principles or how certain elements like Form and Shape are applied, or whether an Artist's vision is more important than the reception and interpretation of the artwork by Others. I'm sure most people who say Art is Subjective agree with this same basic delineation, especially whenever they look at stuff like Neil Breen's movies or anything else that is So Bad It's Good, because indeed as a species, humans have come up with pretty robust theories on how to construct art through certain mediums including Illustration and no one would rationally claim otherwise when cinema bro twitter exists.
At 9/6/22 11:15 PM, MysteryIDK wrote:At 9/6/22 10:26 PM, Template88 wrote:Yeah, I pretty much totally agree, I'd just rather say the shorthand that everyone can recognize more easily, rather than bother to try and fully explain the specific delineation between being Good and Bad at art in terms of certain art principles or how certain elements like Form and Shape are applied, or whether an Artist's vision is more important than the reception and interpretation of the artwork by Others. I'm sure most people who say Art is Subjective agree with this same basic delineation, especially whenever they look at stuff like Neil Breen's movies or anything else that is So Bad It's Good, because indeed as a species, humans have come up with pretty robust theories on how to construct art through certain mediums including Illustration and no one would rationally claim otherwise when cinema bro twitter exists.At 9/5/22 05:50 PM, MysteryIDK wrote: I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.Hmm, this is a small pet peeve of mine so forgive me for singling you out, but only the assessment of art is subjective...because different people value different qualities in art. Drawing itself, especially Illustration has qualities that can be measured and compared. You cant hide behind "art is whatever you want it to be" as an excuse for making bad illustrations, there are many fail states to the goal of effective illustration, design and animation. You can OBJECTIVELY be bad at art (illustration).
I've yet to see a professional level art teacher or mentor conduct a critique in such a public and emotionally abusive manner. And what's the point if art is subjective? It's entirely a clout-chasing maneuver, bonus points if you somehow manage to weaponize politics in the process. We'll see if art fixers learn their lesson eventually, they sure didn't after the 4chan trolling Steven Universe tumblr event.
I weep for the day when somebody figures out the secret to the "so bad its good" equation and it becomes as predictable and mechanical as nearly everything else in media is.
You'd be surprised how many people there are that unironically field the "art can be anything" blanket response to criticism.
At 9/6/22 11:32 PM, Template88 wrote:At 9/6/22 11:15 PM, MysteryIDK wrote:I weep for the day when somebody figures out the secret to the "so bad its good" equation and it becomes as predictable and mechanical as nearly everything else in media is.At 9/6/22 10:26 PM, Template88 wrote:Yeah, I pretty much totally agree, I'd just rather say the shorthand that everyone can recognize more easily, rather than bother to try and fully explain the specific delineation between being Good and Bad at art in terms of certain art principles or how certain elements like Form and Shape are applied, or whether an Artist's vision is more important than the reception and interpretation of the artwork by Others. I'm sure most people who say Art is Subjective agree with this same basic delineation, especially whenever they look at stuff like Neil Breen's movies or anything else that is So Bad It's Good, because indeed as a species, humans have come up with pretty robust theories on how to construct art through certain mediums including Illustration and no one would rationally claim otherwise when cinema bro twitter exists.At 9/5/22 05:50 PM, MysteryIDK wrote: I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.Hmm, this is a small pet peeve of mine so forgive me for singling you out, but only the assessment of art is subjective...because different people value different qualities in art. Drawing itself, especially Illustration has qualities that can be measured and compared. You cant hide behind "art is whatever you want it to be" as an excuse for making bad illustrations, there are many fail states to the goal of effective illustration, design and animation. You can OBJECTIVELY be bad at art (illustration).
I've yet to see a professional level art teacher or mentor conduct a critique in such a public and emotionally abusive manner. And what's the point if art is subjective? It's entirely a clout-chasing maneuver, bonus points if you somehow manage to weaponize politics in the process. We'll see if art fixers learn their lesson eventually, they sure didn't after the 4chan trolling Steven Universe tumblr event.
You'd be surprised how many people there are that unironically field the "art can be anything" blanket response to criticism.
Well, I'm sure they're out there. I know I've been rather lucky in not encountering certain species of Internet dwellers for the most part, although maybe that's just because I'm too busy looking at nudity.
Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-06 23:54:23 (edited 2022-09-07 00:10:44)
It seriously depends on the context of the situation. I come from a background where in online art communities I was a part of, feedback was in fact, common and critique was always a given if you were to post your artwork to begin with.
@Prismisho I think I can better elaborate what @Cerbskies is saying and why I agree with him on that one for that reason so, forgive the length of the post but I do have my thoughts on this.
No one knew each other, but there was a mindset where everyone would help improve with each other. It didn't matter if someone was asking for it or if it was unsolicited, you could either take it or not, but if you didn't you always had the option to deny it with some level of grace instead of acting like an asshole about it. (<- Take note of this part)
However in terms of actually "Fixing" art is adding another layer of complexity to it that I think should be discussed.
The thing is, I would say that it's not constructive feedback if you just said something sucked without elaborating why. That should be self explanatory. So, why does that matter when we're talking about fixing art?
The thing is if you're asking for someone's thoughts or are looking for serious critique while its being made or if something can be done to seriously improve it, then it's not a bad thing for the artwork to get fixed. In fact, if someone decides to give their interpretation of what you are trying to go for then you can at the very least take it and build off of that if you have the desire to improve your skills overall OR if you are seriously struggling with a piece and you aren't sure where to go with it.
However, the problem here as we're talking about "fixing" art because some SJW wants to try to make things their own way and then come off like they're doing the artist a favor when it's already complete. On that end I do not think that is okay because you're essentially trying to tell people that you know better when art is a subjective thing and, in that case those people can go fuck themselves.
That doesn't mean however that telling people how they should go about giving feedback is the right thing to do either. That's just stooping to the same level of the person who is criticizing you is, if not lower. If anything that's just inviting unnecessary drama that you don't want.
All you have to do is say:
"I appreciate your feedback, I may keep that in mind for future pieces but I have no intent of continuing this piece." or in the case where someone "fixes" your work "Your interpretation of my artwork is nice, you have your version, I have mine, and I may consider your advice in future pieces." something to that effect where you're not writing off the person.
Not hard to do that at all.
No one is saying that you have to take everyone's advice on how to improve something or how you should go about making artwork.
I've been on both ends of the situation where someone has given me feedback unnecessarily, or where I have given feedback unnecessarily. At the end of the day when one person starts acting like an entitled asshole then more people are sure to get involved to instigate a flame war.
Grace matters.
At 9/5/22 05:50 PM, MysteryIDK wrote: I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.
I'm not entirely sure I'm in 100% agreement that all people who do this are necessarily narcissistic to an extreme.
Yes there are people who take someone's artwork and break it down and correct it, however, there are people who do this who are not necessarily sociopaths in that sense where they only appreciate themselves, but do so with good intentions in mind (Hence why I mentioned my background with online art communities in my other post.)
If you feel that way to come to that conclusion then to be honest with you I don't think you've met an actual narcissist who is on that extreme.
At 9/6/22 11:54 PM, DioShiba wrote: It seriously depends on the context of the situation. I come from a background where in online art communities I was a part of, feedback was in fact, common and critique was always a given if you were to post your artwork to begin with.
@Prismisho I think I can better elaborate what @Cerbskies is saying and why I agree with him on that one for that reason so, forgive the length of the post but I do have my thoughts on this.
No one knew each other, but there was a mindset where everyone would help improve with each other. It didn't matter if someone was asking for it or if it was unsolicited, you could either take it or not, but if you didn't you always had the option to deny it with some level of grace instead of acting like an asshole about it. (<- Take note of this part)
However in terms of actually "Fixing" art is adding another layer of complexity to it that I think should be discussed.
The thing is, I would say that it's not constructive feedback if you just said something sucked without elaborating why. That should be self explanatory. So, why does that matter when we're talking about fixing art?
The thing is if you're asking for someone's thoughts or are looking for serious critique while its being made or if something can be done to seriously improve it, then it's not a bad thing for the artwork to get fixed. In fact, if someone decides to give their interpretation of what you are trying to go for then you can at the very least take it and build off of that if you have the desire to improve your skills overall OR if you are seriously struggling with a piece and you aren't sure where to go with it.
However, the problem here as we're talking about "fixing" art because some SJW wants to try to make things their own way and then come off like they're doing the artist a favor when it's already complete. On that end I do not think that is okay because you're essentially trying to tell people that you know better when art is a subjective thing and, in that case those people can go fuck themselves.
That doesn't mean however that telling people how they should go about giving feedback is the right thing to do either. That's just stooping to the same level of the person who is criticizing you is, if not lower. If anything that's just inviting unnecessary drama that you don't want.
All you have to do is say:
"I appreciate your feedback, I may keep that in mind for future pieces but I have no intent of continuing this piece." or in the case where someone "fixes" your work "Your interpretation of my artwork is nice, you have your version, I have mine, and I may consider your advice in future pieces." something to that effect where you're not writing off the person.
Not hard to do that at all.
No one is saying that you have to take everyone's advice on how to improve something or how you should go about making artwork.
I've been on both ends of the situation where someone has given me feedback unnecessarily, or where I have given feedback unnecessarily. At the end of the day when one person starts acting like an entitled asshole then more people are sure to get involved to instigate a flame war.
Grace matters.
I've already given my thoughts on the topic, but you point out something that caught my interest. The situation that you use is between individuals or as you said in your own experience, within a single community. In that scenario, how either party goes about it is just as you say, a matter of grace, like in any other conflict between two rational adults.
"Fixing art" however, is a trend that I think we more often see done by an artist with a pretty significant sum of followers, against someone else that may or may not have a similar amount of supporters. The problem then becomes either targeted harassment of a person (who did not ask for the attention in the first place) or two communities going at each other's throats.
I think in that regard, it no longer is an issue of having a thick skin to repel criticism or being civil with giving feedback. It becomes more of an issue of instigating conflict between groups of people for the sake of getting that sweet, sweet clout.
My opinion on the matter remains the same, to just avoid dumb attention-seekers that do this, but imagine if you're the one getting your art "fixed" and all of a sudden large amounts of people are looking down at your work claiming that it's all done wrong. I don't think simply ignoring the attention will be as easy then.
peskytarian
At 9/7/22 12:40 AM, Marckel wrote:At 9/6/22 11:54 PM, DioShiba wrote: It seriously depends on the context of the situation. I come from a background where in online art communities I was a part of, feedback was in fact, common and critique was always a given if you were to post your artwork to begin with.I've already given my thoughts on the topic, but you point out something that caught my interest. The situation that you use is between individuals or as you said in your own experience, within a single community. In that scenario, how either party goes about it is just as you say, a matter of grace, like in any other conflict between two rational adults.
@Prismisho I think I can better elaborate what @Cerbskies is saying and why I agree with him on that one for that reason so, forgive the length of the post but I do have my thoughts on this.
No one knew each other, but there was a mindset where everyone would help improve with each other. It didn't matter if someone was asking for it or if it was unsolicited, you could either take it or not, but if you didn't you always had the option to deny it with some level of grace instead of acting like an asshole about it. (<- Take note of this part)
However in terms of actually "Fixing" art is adding another layer of complexity to it that I think should be discussed.
The thing is, I would say that it's not constructive feedback if you just said something sucked without elaborating why. That should be self explanatory. So, why does that matter when we're talking about fixing art?
The thing is if you're asking for someone's thoughts or are looking for serious critique while its being made or if something can be done to seriously improve it, then it's not a bad thing for the artwork to get fixed. In fact, if someone decides to give their interpretation of what you are trying to go for then you can at the very least take it and build off of that if you have the desire to improve your skills overall OR if you are seriously struggling with a piece and you aren't sure where to go with it.
However, the problem here as we're talking about "fixing" art because some SJW wants to try to make things their own way and then come off like they're doing the artist a favor when it's already complete. On that end I do not think that is okay because you're essentially trying to tell people that you know better when art is a subjective thing and, in that case those people can go fuck themselves.
That doesn't mean however that telling people how they should go about giving feedback is the right thing to do either. That's just stooping to the same level of the person who is criticizing you is, if not lower. If anything that's just inviting unnecessary drama that you don't want.
All you have to do is say:
"I appreciate your feedback, I may keep that in mind for future pieces but I have no intent of continuing this piece." or in the case where someone "fixes" your work "Your interpretation of my artwork is nice, you have your version, I have mine, and I may consider your advice in future pieces." something to that effect where you're not writing off the person.
Not hard to do that at all.
No one is saying that you have to take everyone's advice on how to improve something or how you should go about making artwork.
I've been on both ends of the situation where someone has given me feedback unnecessarily, or where I have given feedback unnecessarily. At the end of the day when one person starts acting like an entitled asshole then more people are sure to get involved to instigate a flame war.
Grace matters.
"Fixing art" however, is a trend that I think we more often see done by an artist with a pretty significant sum of followers, against someone else that may or may not have a similar amount of supporters. The problem then becomes either targeted harassment of a person (who did not ask for the attention in the first place) or two communities going at each other's throats.
I think in that regard, it no longer is an issue of having a thick skin to repel criticism or being civil with giving feedback. It becomes more of an issue of instigating conflict between groups of people for the sake of getting that sweet, sweet clout.
My opinion on the matter remains the same, to just avoid dumb attention-seekers that do this, but imagine if you're the one getting your art "fixed" and all of a sudden large amounts of people are looking down at your work claiming that it's all done wrong. I don't think simply ignoring the attention will be as easy then.
You are right on the money with that point where it's better to avoid attention seekers. That's something that I'm still working on. However you understand where I'm going with how sometimes conflict can not be avoided and that's part of the reason why I brought up my point.
For the most part it's better to de-escelate something before it goes into an out of control argument on both sides. Sometimes conflict can't be avoided in some situations and if it comes to that then the least you can do is weaponize kindness like a true wise ass and shoot the other person with it. There is an idiom there but, I prefer being a little more crafty saying it.
Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-07 01:54:22 (edited 2022-09-07 02:05:31)
At 9/7/22 12:32 AM, DioShiba wrote:At 9/5/22 05:50 PM, MysteryIDK wrote: I think it's pretty fair to say that no one except extreme narcissists, on twitter or otherwise, would feel right taking someone's work and ripping their vision to shreds in public and "correcting" it.I'm not entirely sure I'm in 100% agreement that all people who do this are necessarily narcissistic to an extreme.
Yes there are people who take someone's artwork and break it down and correct it, however, there are people who do this who are not necessarily sociopaths in that sense where they only appreciate themselves, but do so with good intentions in mind (Hence why I mentioned my background with online art communities in my other post.)
If you feel that way to come to that conclusion then to be honest with you I don't think you've met an actual narcissist who is on that extreme.
To me, it comes off as narcissistic to at least some excessive degree if you provide an unsolicited correction of someone's artwork which may or may not even align with the artist's original intent. If you don't agree with that base reaction of mine, which is fine and all, we're probably just not going to be in full agreement on this topic. Being in a more insular art community might come with some unspoken expectation about being open to receiving critiques at any moment and therefore reducing the need for OP to officially ask for advice, but that's not where I've seen most of the art fixers this topic was originally concerned with.
Rather, I see most of them commenting unsolicited advice on Twitter or Tumblr, often weaponizing politics as a means of degrading what was otherwise normal, suitable work that just incidentally didn't feature a POC or whatnot. You are speaking from within a specific context where sure, my narcissist comment doesn't apply because advice is generally always solicited. But that specific community or two's existence doesn't change my mind regarding the population of art fixers who explicitly operate outside of that community, and it certainly doesn't convince me that I've never encountered a narcissist.
Depends on the context really. But the most that you'll get out of me is pic related if the "fix" is particularly cringe worthy.
Response to Do you think "fixing" art is problematic? 2022-09-07 03:22:29 (edited 2022-09-07 03:23:24)
Only if you do it without the artist's permission, and even still calling it "fixing" automatically makes you look self-centered and pretentious if the artwork looks good already.
Just call it a redraw istg
Also, here’s a friendly reminder that there are communities still active today that do the clout-driven, self-congratulatory, kick-em-while-they’re-down kind of “fixing”, but with fanfiction or writing in general. Some aspects of cringe culture still breathe, and didn’t die off in the 90s and 2000s where they belong.
Someone please help me revive my clubs
