thank fuck, nobody wants to acknowledge that douchebag's existence, nor should they! Damn estabo-crony.

He should be shunned by every single person, living or almost-dead, until the end of time.

WE HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN, YOU SMARMY PRICK! You laid the groundwork for this! The fire rises!

And I haven't forgotten how he made his fortune in Bain intentionally crashing Kay*Bee when it was at its height!

Bernie Sanders is better than any other candidate.

Only one thing can bring Sanders campaign down against Donald Trump or even during the Primaries if he's foolish enough to announce it (I don't think he is) and that is his Vice President pick.

There are plenty of ways to take Sanders down, so don't rest on one's laurels until he's in the White House. He MUST win the primary on the first round, or else the Superdelegates are going to pick whoever they want to put into the White House. The DNC can always change the rules, ignore the will of the people and pick someone else even if Bernie wins the first round (they're a private entity, they can do whatever they want). Trump, in the face of a potential loss, could simply suspend elections indefinitely (there is literally no reason he couldn't do this - impeachment is off of the table).

Let's just take it one step at a time and cross these boundaries when we get there, eh?

I want bernie to win but they'll probably shill biden and want to lose on purpose because the democrats and republicans represent the same neoliberal economics.

The democratic party is the party of stagnation. The republican party is the advance of neoliberal economics. The purpose of the democrats is to offer the illusion of change and progress with bad concessions such as obamacare, these concessions will be reversed anyways. I suspect that the GOP will go back to its former state as it was with bush and reagan previously, after Trump serves his term and the positive things he's done such as prison reforms and tarrifs will be reversed by the neoliberal republicans. The energy behind occupy wall street was sucked up by Obama and it burnt out

In Oklahoma. Our last governor fallin was the type of person who would be lenient on oil fracking companies causing hundreds of Earthquakes and blamed antifa on the teachers strike to draw up fear against it. She was originally on the party of the democrats a while ago so their economics aren't that far apart from each other.

So, how 'bout dem Iowa caucuses, eh?

... Can we collectively agree that electronic methods of vote counting are just a bad, bad idea?

https://youtu.be/AXVEnxtZe_w?t=779

The app used by the Iowa Caucus is ran and founded by a company of former Clinton campaign veterans

What a surprise mean who would have guessed?!

Bernie claims victory with 6000 votes >>> Tom Perez (DNC Chairman) calls for a recanvass

So... is the Democratic Party actively trying to lose general elections for years to come?

They mad that Bernie is winning.

Fuck em', Bernie won by all metrics that matter (and if they actually counted that last 3%, probably by all metrics). Biden got destroyed. Bernie's doing reeeally well, out of the gate.

That app was designed by veterans of the Clinton campaigns and the Buttiegieg campaign is an investor.

Then they stop the count before all the Iowa counties are tallied.

Totally not suspicious or anything.

Andrew Yang is one of the few candidates who doesn't blame all their problems on Trump.

Do you think Pete will be doing just as well in the upcoming primaries and caucuses?

I'm hoping not but we shall see.

Andrew Yang would be my second choice after Bernie. He also seems like a decent person.

I don't think Bernie knows fully what he's doing. Talking about how bad capitalism is while rolling in piles of money. I want America to be America, not some Soviet Russia knock-off.

Well polls were wrong, nothing new there. Pete coming in to tie up with Bernie though... did not see that coming.

Don't buy the Trump lies. Take it from a European; Socialism is a perfectly healthy supplementary system to capitalism and a far stretch from the Communist boogeyman Republicans have been selling you on for 40 years.

They would rather lose to Trump than deal with Sanders, who they despise. Plus, it gives them four more years to "resist" without actually having to do anything.

Ever notice the top echelon of the Democratic Party/DNC (and a lot of liberal groups in general) are always populated by the same people? None of them want anyone else in their super special club.

The Democratic Party needs to go the way of the Whigs.

Last I looked, they passed a bunch of bipartisan bills in the House, while the Senate has refused to take any of them up.

The problem here is that they are internally divided, comprised of liberals (progressives?), moderates, and conservatives, with 40% of the party comprised of minorities, and woman. That is quite different from Republicans, who are mostly conservative, with 90% of the party being white and Christian, and reflected by white male christian politicians in office.

Republicans don't reflect the actual racial/gender demographics of the country. They just know how to excite their base to vote. And they are always putting party first. It's why they are blindly defending a president, who controls their base, over things they would normally be attacking Democrats for - though, they still do that. And they have been ostracizing any Republican who doesn't tow their line or blindly defend the president. They are also going out of their way to prevent primary challenges to Trump.

While the DNC is making it worse for themselves with their debacles, with the right simply enjoying it, it doesn't change the fact that Berni doesn't have a winning strategy in a country that tilts to the right. There is a reason why there are very few progressives in office. Their message might work in in large metropolitan areas, but in the majority of rural America it's not a winning strategy.

And personally, I'm still confused by what party he belongs to, whether he is an independent or a Democrat. But the Democrat party has allowed him to participate in their primaries during the last Decade since he joined the party.

He's a democratic socialist. He has money because he wrote two books. It's not like he's been accepting dark money or anything like that.

I want America to be America too, just a better America. I really don't think Bernie's goal is to be like Soviet Russia.

I'm pretty sure the country doesn't "tilt right", since every leftist policy of Sanders is favored by Americans. It tilts anti-establishment, hence the Trump victory in 2016. Anti-establishment fervor tends to crop up whenever Capitalism causes too great a divide between the property owners and working class, which leads either to the rise of far-right demagogues or far-left leaders. It's a pretty well known consequence of late-stage capitalism, actually.

Probably because of the manufactured consent against them by a unified neoliberal media apparatus (CNN & MSNBC hate Progressives), but go on.

Fun fact: Bernie's state is a small, rural state; his message seems to work fine in those areas, considering his popularity there. He does very fine in working class neighborhoods, and appeals to the largest variety of demographics.

He'll be fine.

One of his biggest strengths is that he isn't a Democrat. That's how you attract Republicans, who have been taught that Democrats are Satanist spawn for the last 40 years.

*Shrug*

If you're at all curious, Bernie's political theory is that he can pull more people from independents, anti-establishment folk, and non-voters who abandoned politics long ago in order to overwhelm Trump's support, using a platform that appeals to the widest margin of Americans. It's actually pretty risky, considering non-voters, y'know, often don't vote, but frankly it's the only viable plan that I can find among Democrats. If you pick a candidate that promises to make things marginally better under the conditions Americans are increasingly in now, they will not turn up for you, and we will get Trump for another 4 years.

It's still too early to tell, but so far it seems to be working pretty well for him. He's not an underdog in this primary; he's the candidate to beat, and frankly given his wide appeal I don't think he'll have a problem in the general.

That's just it. A lot of Democrats don't seem to realize that they were successful in 2018 because they ran a lot of moderate candidates. Those folks talked about health care, infrastructure, and jobs. These are things that voters care about.

Then you have the 2020 field talking about impeachment, Russia, marijuana legalization, free college, and decriminalizing illegal border crossings, just to name a few examples. Sure, the progressives in large metropolitan areas are probably all "YAS SLAY QUEEN", but how do you think that looks to an undecided voter in, say, Michigan?

On that note, I don't know WTF Elizabeth Warren was thinking when she said she'd run cabinet choices past a transgender 9-year-old. Talk about unforced errors.

I don't get Bernie Sanders either. Supposedly one of the reasons the DNC hates him is because of his fundraising. Generally, any candidate is supposed to raise funds, then put a percentage (I think it's 10%) back in the kitty so other Democratic candidates who might not have fundraising star power can run their campaigns. But Bernie apparently raises funds and doesn't contribute to the kitty. Guess he's a Democrat when he wants money and an Independent other times?

I also think one of the reasons Warren's campaign is crashing and burning is she's trying to out-progressive Bernie. He promises all this outrageous shit without telling us how he's going to do it beyond "tax the rich." France tried that and all the rich people up and left. Warren tried to come up with plans for how she would do this stuff, but they're incredibly crazy and convoluted. The reason? There is no way in hell any of what he promises is realistic.

1: There's few "progressives" in office because it's against the interests of politicians to be progressive.

2: Bernie's type of economic reform policies are more popular in the south. See how the South voted in FDR in 1932/Oklahoma voting in Bernie in comparison to Hillary.

Those are material concessions I agree with you on it.

The majority of these things are illusions. The whole thing with Russia is just a distraction from the rise of populist thinking. The only thing that's really valid or has any ground in your list is free or subsidized college.

Pandering

Bernie wants more material concessions for average americans. Bernie's ideas conflict with the interests of other politicians.

Ya, it's just people trying to copycat each other currently.

Progressives put funds into their own PACs and not the DNC's piggybank because the DNC has a policy where if you want their help you must never campaign against an incumbent. There isn't a Progressive out there who has benefitted from the DNC, so why would they put money into that organization?

That's basically giving your enemy ammo to kill you and your friends with - it's be stupid for Bernie to give them money.

Quite the opposite: Warren is crashing and burning because people on the left were looking to see if she was as left wing as Bernie, but then she swerved on nearly every issue (healthcare, childcare, environment, etc.) to be more left of center. She suddenly has no lane, so she's losing all of the lefties to Bernie and all of the centrists to the other candidates. She's not as left as Bernie - she never has been.

She also marked herself as untrustworthy when she pulled her little stunt on the 7th debate, but that's settled down for now so no need to rehash.

I'm pretty sure everyone figured out she's a pathological liar a long time ago.

Didn't stop Trump getting elected.

(Please forgive the below “brain fart”, as I’ve probably worded it horribly:)

In recent years, I’ve been led to believe that we call others “liars” because it’s a clean and simple answer for a lack of morality. It’s been used against Trump, Hilary Clinton, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, etc.

It also doesn’t work as a convincing argument, as these people still get elected. If you call someone a liar, somebody else can also just as easily not believe you or think you are wrong.

Oh, I grant you that things are slowly changing, but it doesn't change the statistics that there are more self identified Conservatives than liberals - or people who identify as liberals but vote for right leaning Republicans (ie. libertarians). It's also why there are still blue dog Democrats, and a lot of centrists, more than liberal or progressives in Congress.

Nor does it change the fact that the public are pretty divided over "Medicare for All", mostly along party lines - and are less likely to support it if they know the cost ( something Sanders. and even Warren, have been struggling to explain how they will pay for it.)

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good ideas that progressives are promoting, but the problem is that they often are trying to go to big, too far left, and too fast. This is one of their biggest downfalls, in my opinion, which is usually used against them by their opponents who use it to rile up their base and to scare off those

Not this again. I already hear that same shit from the right, all the time, especially from Trump, and his administration full of media linked personalities. Not to mention the fringe with their conspiracy theories. All this shows me is how divided,ans sensitive, people are, over their expectations of the media. Shit, I don't see them exactly praising the shit out of Biden, or some of the more centrist candidates, do you? So this whole argument is just one huge excuse for why progressives are not more popular, or in office.

Sure, but that don't change the fact that progressives are not winning rural areas. It's not the working class issue they have a problem with it's the other progressive issues, especially over culture.

Err... He certainly carries a lot of terms as a independent socialist progressive Democrat, running in the Democrat primary for democrat and independent votes.

Bernie does excite the younger crowds, just like Ron Paul, but the older, more committed to voting, crowd are a lot more consistent and reserved.

The problem here is that people are not THAT excited about any one candidate. 50% to 60% of likely Democrat voters just want a candidate to beat Trump, and so they are all over the place in selecting a primary challenge.

Presidential primaries tend to be different from local and congressional elections. You have a higher number of candidates running for the same office, and trying to appeal to various groups, and interests, in the entire country. And since the Democrat primary is so crowded, with each trying to stand out among the others, a lot of their messages are lost, or some of the more absurd things they promote or say will stand out good or for bad.

The other problem is that according to a recent Gallup poll 59% of the public approves of Trump's handling of the economy, which limits Democrats on what they can propose that Trump won't be doing himself.

Yes, the impeachment seemed to have helped Trump, bumping his approval rating to his highest point in his first term at 49%. But it was something Democrats had to do to keep the president in check over something he did that was clearly wrong, with 80% of the public agreeing. And whether you like it or not, 50%-60% of likely Democrat voters will vote for any candidate as long as they can beat Trump. It's also why the Democrat primaries are such a mess, as voters are constantly changing their minds over candidates, at least 30%.

He's definitely more anti-establishment than the DNC, which often puts him at odds with them - he also scares their rich donors, which is why we are seeing more rich candidates entering an already crowded field. Democrats use to rely a lot more on individual, and union, contributions, up to the 90's, but with the right leaning Supreme court gutting unions and campaign finance laws (citizen united) they are competing with Republicans for more donations from corporations and the wealthy.

Bernie is trying to prove them wrong by getting most of his donations from small donors. Very few of his donations are from large corporations.

And I don't believe that any of the candidates give any of their campaign donations to the DNC. That may also be illegal in campaign finance law, since the donation was given specifically to that candidate.

Warren is just all over the place, going after every opportunity, and trying to appeal to as many groups as she can, which has the habit of alienating her other groups she is trying to appeal to. She's basically trying to do a Trump with her anti-establishment, identity politics, bullshit, but more unsuccessful.

I think this is why Bloomberg entered the race: to siphon delegates from Bernie. It seems to be working with his polling numbers, but his oversaturation of the airwaves will likely backfire. It's fucking EVERYWHERE and it's invasive. Seriously, I was watching hockey last week and there were three Bloomberg ads IN A ROW.

I agree that name-calling doesn't work as an argument.

However, Elizabeth Warren lied about her Native American "heritage", about not sending her son to private school, and about supposedly having been fired for being pregnant. So yeah, at this point, it's pathological; especially as she's been caught lying.

I don't know what she was thinking with that DNA test. That was probably her biggest self-own. She could have just said "I thought I had greater heritage than that and I was wrong, I apologize", but she handled it in the worst possible way.

That being said, that paperwork she filled out in the '80s that lists her race as Native American...woof.