At 7/29/17 01:48 PM, Eggy wrote: Obviously this is pretty scary to me. My whole past 10 years has been based on making Flash Games, and if the 30+ games I've made all of a sudden don't work, it's going to be very depressing for me. I've also spent a year and a half on my new game which is getting close to be releasing, my best game yet, so the news at this time hurts. Of course I will adapt and start to learn Unity most likely now, I just hope an alternative solution is found and my games can live on. It's not good to have my hard work over the years all of a sudden be phased out.

On the plus side, at least I am just about to release my new game soon and mise well start pushing myself into Unity and can still upload them to Newgrounds. I updated my supporter payment today so I'm confident You'll find a way to export them or keep it going Tom.

You can still export your games as desktop executables, and provide links to those for people on your website or here. They will have to download your games first, but can still play them. So your work is not entirely lost.

At 7/29/17 05:13 PM, hvanderwegen wrote:

A solution would be to install a virtual machine with an older OS and browser, and install the old Flash player - but who will do that? Too complicated.

a less complicated solution would be to run the flash projector in WINE or similar or a program for playing swf files,
you don't really need to emulate another computers hardware or os just use a normal program

Another option is to create executable apps of all the SWF files you have - they will run on desktop machines. But again, for how long after support has ended? And what about mobile?

or you could just use the projector to open SWF converting them to an exe only makes it less compatible with future operating systems sincxe it now needs to run windows code rather than use a multi platform program to load an swf

No, your optimism is misplaced: unless Adobe open sources the Flash player code, this is the end of the road for the Flash player and web SWF content. And Adobe will NEVER open source it.

you will still have the binaries(Dll/exe) therefor you can just run the swf outside the web browser or even have an add-on to do this

the only thing you are going to lose when plugin support ends is the software that embeds plugins to browsers and nothings going to stop people from making their own

you can also use the flash plugin on other applications besides web browsers.

Thank you Tom!

As a bit of a data hoarder and nostalgia junkie, the thought of permanently losing all my favourite flash content terrifies me. With three years to prepare I'm sure people will figure out some preservation methods, but I'll have nightmares about the inevitable day that no one even cares about preserving flash stuff anymore.

At 7/26/17 01:19 PM, TomFulp wrote: 3. It really bothers me when people cheer the death of Flash. I totally get why it's time to move on but you shouldn't cheer the death of something that empowered so many people and brought so much joy to the web for 20+ years. I think it's a bandwagon that a lot of joyless people have jumped on, sorry if you're one of them.

Very well said. Smug hatred seems to be the internet's default mode and it just gets aggravating.

It feels like if you give people a half-formed reason to hate something they'll cling to that with far more intensity than any well-balanced reason to appreciate it instead.

As an anecdotal and probably sentimental point I tend to enjoy the occasional flash-based portal submissions we still get more than anything made on modern software. Even mediocre flash games have a certain charm that games made on Construct, Unity etc. just lack entirely, but that could just be nostalgia speaking.

At 7/26/17 03:10 PM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/26/17 03:00 PM, BoMToons wrote: Release a Steam game/app called "Newgrounds" that houses all the NG .swf files served through Adobe AIR.

I'm curious if people would pay for a supporter subscription to cover bandwidth but might not be able to sell that via Steam if it uses an outside payment system.

Steam already has free-to-play games and MMO's that require external subscriptions, and you could always do a free but restricted and ad-supported version. This is a nice idea if it could be done. I guess you could always just release the client through NG instead anyway, right?

At 7/29/17 05:47 PM, Jackho wrote: As a bit of a data hoarder and nostalgia junkie, the thought of permanently losing all my favourite flash content terrifies me. With three years to prepare I'm sure people will figure out some preservation methods, but I'll have nightmares about the inevitable day that no one even cares about preserving flash stuff anymore.

Step1
identify all the submissions in the portal originally made in flash
Step2
send SWF files to archive.org so they can offer them as a torrent
Step3
Add a link to original SWF on submissions that have been converted
Step 4
develop program to trick site locked swf files
and develop our own plugin system with an accompanying browser addon
with blackjack and hookers

At 7/27/17 07:54 PM, EGurt wrote: Also, is there any good and big HTML5-based game projects? I honestly never was able to find any.

Could be wrong, but off the top of my head I think all the games by @Nutcasenightmare over the last few years were done in HTML5.

the flash files of newgrounds could be offered on physical media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_UmWdcTrrc

in all seriousness Working with Archive.org making a torrent is probably the best way to save it for future generations

Also the flash plugin is available in many forms so there are many ways the program could implement flash if you want to make your own plugin system with Blackjack and Hookers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NPAPI#Similar_technologies
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/O/OCX.html
React os and WINE already have that one covered and it would be easier to use it in your app you could use atl.dll or copy over thousands of lines of code to use NPAPI
the latter giving us more control over how the plugin functions

Launching a website next year i will see about having a beta then starting work on this next month

At 7/26/17 08:57 PM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/26/17 08:55 PM, S3C wrote: can someone explains to me how this works? if you still have the to-be legacy Flash plugins, why wouldn't these old games work in an open-source third party browser? is there some component in online games which Adobe can switch off to invalidate the flash content?

Legacy plugins will work in browsers that support them - most people will likely be using browsers that no longer support plugins, though.

Well, currently in Firefox switching extensions.blocklist.enabled to false in about:config allows you to use outdated plugins.

need to figure out a good way to to alter what data the swf retrieves when it checks where its being run from
I was just playing around with the flash plugin and found a way to bypass some site-locked swfs i have tested it with these
http://www.onlinegames.x-pressive.com/en/index.html

the trick is to skip the first few frames and unpause the swf, this will bring you away from the part with the code.

i made a program to demonstrate this using the code in the picture and the flash ocx

i downloaded Freeware_Splatman.zip from x-pressive and loaded up the swf in the normal projector.
it was blocked from opening a popup and the swf was designed to hide the toolbar and the play option when you right click.

so i made this program
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/518240bfa9f54b2f3982a4c9ab54a0e2

step1.
copy the location of the file
step2 load it and resize as desired
step3. enter how many frames you want to skip to bypass the site lock and press play

pres play a few times try other numbers,

does anybody else have any other ways of doing this

when i make a real program to use flash after 2020 i will be using something better to make the exe this is just a demonstration

At 7/29/17 06:38 AM, Gorksonic wrote:

Remember the August 2015 "this plugin is outdated and should be updated " Red dialogue box on Firefox browser? That was scary.

LOL I still get that message all the time. It's a pain in the ass.

At 7/30/17 01:37 AM, GamblerJustice wrote:

Well, currently in Firefox switching extensions.blocklist.enabled to false in about:config allows you to use outdated plugins.

Which version of Firefox is this? I remember seeing on FF's website starting with FF47 you wouldn't be able to override the block list like that.

It might have been a waste of money, but I found a new, sealed copy of Macromedia Flash 5 (full) for $37. Older than the hills but my computer should have no trouble running it.

At 7/29/17 06:38 AM, Gorksonic wrote:

At 7/28/17 03:20 AM, Soupcat wrote:

At 7/27/17 02:14 PM, hvanderwegen wrote: Moho

That software is still alive? I remember it dying ages ago. Could be wrong.

Remember the August 2015 "this plugin is outdated and should be updated " Red dialogue box on Firefox browser? That was scary.

I was talking about Moho, not Flash. Also I never actively used Firefox so I never got that dialogue box. Kept my flash player manually updated most of the time. That or Opera kept it updated for me.

At 7/29/17 01:06 PM, straberrykiler6789 wrote: one of the features i hope is in the next redesign is the option of viewing the original SWF on flashes that have been converted
like a discrete little button on its page.

This feature already exists - in the left column under the movie, there is a part that shows the file format. For converted content you will see both swf and mp4, if you click the swf link it will switch to the swf version and always default to swf from then on until you click the mp4 link on a submission.

At 7/26/17 01:19 PM, TomFulp wrote: 1. Flash was never the reason for bad advertising on the web, bad ad companies were. Most ads are now using HTML5 and the irony is they are larger files and often consume more resources than Flash did. We also have new problems, for example Flash-based ads were never able to steal focus from your browser and force the page to scroll back to the ad. HTML5 ads that do that have been cropping up on NG this past year and we have to chase them down. We’re also seeing more ads that do forced page redirects. This is why it’s a great idea to become a supporter, so you can browse NG ad-free and ultimately help us run less ads for everyone else.

2. Flash as a security threat was kind of a meme. Yes, Flash had vulnerabilities that needed to be patched and it was a bummer that it was a closed system. However your OS and your web browser also have vulnerabilities that get patched, as does all software. It became a popular thing to complain about but the reality is most people were getting their viruses and malware somewhere other than through an SWF file.

3. It really bothers me when people cheer the death of Flash. I totally get why it's time to move on but you shouldn't cheer the death of something that empowered so many people and brought so much joy to the web for 20+ years. I think it's a bandwagon that a lot of joyless people have jumped on, sorry if you're one of them.

Honestly, fuck Cracked, Wired, CNET and any other trendy hipster know-it-all site that have been jumping on this Flash hate bandwagon, pretentiously thinking to themselves that they're right in their hate crusade against Flash, posting fuck tons of "FLASH. MUST. DIE" and "WAAH WAAAH FLASH SUCKS BECAUSE I SAY IT DOES" articles, and tricking even more fucktons of morons into believing the shit they're spewing.

These people are dumbass hipsters who think that they're technology wizzes after writing a webpage in java once and then kissing enough ass to get a position on a supposed "tech-geek" website, despite the fact that they don't know shit about the internet and what built it up pre-2010.

Rant over. This sucks.

I can only hope that Flash goes open source or Adobe changes their minds and stops listening to these morons.

I for one am going to miss flash a LOT. It opened up so many creative worlds to and for me. I have yet to find a tool you can program in, that is planned so well for an artist's mind. I keep waiting for THE REPLACEMENT to pop up, and I've yet to see it. I'm all for change, but like Tom said, it's sad for people to trash a great tool that helped so many people build things, just because their peers are trashing it too.

3. It really bothers me when people cheer the death of Flash. I totally get why it's time to move on but you shouldn't cheer the death of something that empowered so many people and brought so much joy to the web for 20+ years. I think it's a bandwagon that a lot of joyless people have jumped on, sorry if you're one of them.

I agree with this comment so god damn much.

At 7/29/17 11:27 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/29/17 06:28 AM, Gorksonic wrote:

At 7/29/17 05:14 AM, SimpleCubic1497 wrote: can we still make flash games and upload them to newgrounds by 2020? Or we can use the adobe flash cs versions to create them?
Also will we be able to upload swf files in general on here or just html5?

Use Construct 3 Stency, Unity Engine l or whatever not Buggy ol Flash Dummy!

Stencyl actually outputs to SWF so they will need to get an HTML5 output going asap.

Stencyl actually got an option to output to HTML5 but it's still experimental so Stencyl should still be viable I hope.

If newgrounds will have to use an interpreter to run the swf games, maybe you should promt the creators of swf games to upload an HTML5 version if possible. That way you can keep the medals, unless the interpretor could handle that as well, which actually would be the most convenient solution.

I think that we will find a good solution to this, while also moving forward. :D

At 7/30/17 05:30 PM, HenrikSahlin wrote: If newgrounds will have to use an interpreter to run the swf games, maybe you should prompt the creators of swf games to upload an HTML5 version if possible. That way you can keep the medals, unless the interpreter could handle that as well, which actually would be the most convenient solution.

I think that we will find a good solution to this, while also moving forward. :D

Flash player 3 for java was about 0.2 mb and the flash projector for flash player 10 was about 4mb.

theoretically you could make something works and doesn't add much to the loading time, get gnash working on this.

you could also strip off features not used to improve loading times

ReadMe.txt
The small version of the Flash player does not support sounds or bitmaps
in a Flash file. Use this version if you do not need these features and
want the smallest possible download for the Java code.
At 7/30/17 11:27 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/29/17 01:06 PM, straberrykiler6789 wrote: one of the features i hope is in the next redesign is the option of viewing the original SWF on flashes that have been converted
like a discrete little button on its page.

This feature already exists - in the left column under the movie, there is a part that shows the file format. For converted content you will see both swf and mp4, if you click the swf link it will switch to the swf version and always default to swf from then on until you click the mp4 link on a submission.

I know just checking for the next redesign, Feature confirmed for 2020?

At 7/29/17 11:16 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/27/17 10:03 PM, deathink wrote: I don't think I will ever stop making little flash experiments. I just hope there will always be a downloadable flash player for future OSs.

That's the scariest thought - that the desktop Flash player itself might stop working on future computers.

I really hope that Flash Player will keep on working on the OS. Flash Player not working on browsers won't really affect me. I make stuff for .exe using Actionscript, and to have Flash Player stop working offline on the computer will really suck; I may have to learn Unity or something.

Nothing will ever beat the Flash 8 enviroment. Nothing.

@TomFulp After the flash plugin is gone in 2020, what will you do with the swf formatted games and movies from the portal?

At 7/30/17 10:51 PM, joshescue18 wrote: @TomFulp After the flash plugin is gone in 2020, what will you do with the swf formatted games and movies from the portal?

He should just keep them there. It harms nothing to keep them there, and it's on the user to be able to make use of the files. If someone wants to play old Flash content, they can go out of their way to download an old version of a browser and a Flash plugin for it (provided the newest version of their browser won't allow it) and then view the page, etc...

Literally nothing prevents you from doing this.

Already there is content not accessible to all users (Unity) though thankfully most Unity-developed games have been exported to HTML5 format, as they should. But if you want to play those old Unity games that require the Unity plugin, it's up to you to somehow get that working.

Damn that really upset adobe will just let it go... especially the bandwagon shitstorm... I hope they will provide the source code like you said. if not then most likely the open source community will try to rebuild it from the ground up by the time 2020 hits since good amount of programmers grew attached to it... i hope flash will survive by 2020...

Flash forever... <3

At 7/29/17 05:13 PM, hvanderwegen wrote: It's not the same. Browsers no longer will allow ANY plugin to run - only addons. Plugins are on their way out across the board.

That's only if you have it set to update. Also someone could make a fork of Firefox that still uses the other security features but still supports the plugin framework. Also, Safari, Microsoft's IE and Edge, Firefox and Chrome are not the only browsers in existence. Vivaldi, Opera, a bunch of Firefox forks and others I probably don't know about work and support Flash.

Stencyl is so limited at the moment I can't expect it to work. as future simple game engines example, Construct, will become available mainstream by the time I finish my first major game in Stencyl game maker by 2021.

What are the chances of getting Flash as a browser extension rather than a plugin?

At 7/30/17 10:51 PM, joshescue18 wrote: @TomFulp After the flash plugin is gone in 2020, what will you do with the swf formatted games and movies from the portal?

They will still be there but you'll have to download them to play them, unless we get a web-based alternative going.

At 7/31/17 09:39 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 7/30/17 10:51 PM, joshescue18 wrote: @TomFulp After the flash plugin is gone in 2020, what will you do with the swf formatted games and movies from the portal?

They will still be there but you'll have to download them to play them, unless we get a web-based alternative going.

Will the same be done for Flash movies?

At 7/31/17 01:30 AM, PaulMuadDib wrote:

At 7/29/17 05:13 PM, hvanderwegen wrote: It's not the same. Browsers no longer will allow ANY plugin to run - only addons. Plugins are on their way out across the board.

That's only if you have it set to update. Also someone could make a fork of Firefox that still uses the other security features but still supports the plugin framework. Also, Safari, Microsoft's IE and Edge, Firefox and Chrome are not the only browsers in existence. Vivaldi, Opera, a bunch of Firefox forks and others I probably don't know about work and support Flash.

Perhaps, but expecting customers to have a particular, obscure and non-mainstream browser to play means that virtually no one will play, certainly not enough to make any money or if you're not trying to make money it will still severely limit your audience.