Really trying to find a musical fam

[eppskevin]

I've been a member since 2010, about when I started making music. At the time, I was really trying to grow, and although the negative comments helped me know that I needed to study more, no one was really specific on what I needed to work on, and I always felt alone here. Then, I discovered Soundcloud, Youtube, and Facebook(created a music group), and my experience on those places were the TOTAL opposite. People were actually HELPING instead of bashing. So, I decided to take a break from here as NG would only damage my spirits instead of help lift them. During my time away, I've been studying my weaknesses and experimenting to grow with a lot of things, and I know that I know a LOT more than I did in 2010. I just think if people here would've just given me a hint or SOMETHING of what their issues were with my music, I wouldn't have felt so driven away, I think.

With that said, I want to take what I have learned on the outside and help others who feel the same way that I felt. So, if any of you feel like no one is in your corner. I'm here to help. Let me know. We can all keep growing together.

Because unless you're a techie or a trapper, you don't have a lot of friends here. I'm a very soulful/jazzy guy, but I accept any kind of music that is full of musical expression.

Get at me if you need a positive experience here.

[LemonCrush]

At 11/14/12 10:24 PM, eppskevin wrote: Get at me if you need a positive experience here.

Hey man, I feel the same way. Not sure what exactly that mean, just saying...

[eppskevin]

At 11/14/12 10:32 PM, LemonCrush wrote:

At 11/14/12 10:24 PM, eppskevin wrote: Get at me if you need a positive experience here.

Hey man, I feel the same way. Not sure what exactly that mean, just saying...

Hey, man. If you feel the same way, then I'll make sure to follow you to keep up with what you're doing and help you with anything if you ask for it. Definitely. I'll take a listen through your stuff tomorrow.

[BlazingDragon]

Sorry that's been your experience here friend. Over the last 5+ years, mine has been extremely positive. People have almost always left me at least kind reviews if not helpful ones. Probably less than 3% of reviews have been negative/mean, and that's out of nearly 1500 of them.

I suppose everyone has a different experience, but I do try to leave highly thorough reviews to help people improve. It's sad that rude reviewers are driving some musicians away.

[Sequenced]

At 11/14/12 11:20 PM, BlazingDragon wrote: Sorry that's been your experience here friend. Over the last 5+ years, mine has been extremely positive. People have almost always left me at least kind reviews if not helpful ones. Probably less than 3% of reviews have been negative/mean, and that's out of nearly 1500 of them.

Agreed. You just have to search for people that will kindly leave a good review and you will do the same.. and eventually you will become acquaintances and eventually, you will become lifelong friends.

Just like me and other people on this forum.

<3

[eppskevin]

At 11/14/12 11:20 PM, BlazingDragon wrote: Sorry that's been your experience here friend. Over the last 5+ years, mine has been extremely positive. People have almost always left me at least kind reviews if not helpful ones. Probably less than 3% of reviews have been negative/mean, and that's out of nearly 1500 of them.

I suppose everyone has a different experience, but I do try to leave highly thorough reviews to help people improve. It's sad that rude reviewers are driving some musicians away.

Yeah, but I'm glad that it happened though, because I wouldn't have found myself by looking elsewhere either. I think that I needed to go through it to toughen me up, and to be there for others who feel the same way I felt. I know SOOOO much more now than I did 2 years ago, now I can be that positive force and help others. My life has always been like that, though..

I'll experience something to work through it, then come across so many others to help them through it.

[Dylnmatrix]

I'd say I'm going through this right now, but I'm not really getting negative reviewers or feedback, I'm just not getting any at all. Guess that's what happens when you make music in the EDM genre, which not many people seem to care about anymore when you're an unpopular/unheard of artist :/ And I've started to leave reviews on other songs, with not much of a response from that yet.

No feedback at all can also push somebody to leave, I've nearly done it myself a couple times. So it's not just the rude reviewers that do it.

[la-yinn]

It's been a positive experience for me altogether. If it weren't for NG, I wouldn't have stumbled upon music production in the first place. In that regard, I owe a lot to NG.

But really, it's so very hit n miss imo. I've written a fuckton of reviews. Some never reply. Others are thrilled with your praise/critique, while some just flatout tell you to fuck off.

I've learnt to accept that it's better to simply not care. If I have anything specific to say on a track, I'll say it and probably never look back again / not to expect anything in return.

Though maybe this sounds a bit cynical, I dunno. I've made some great friends off NG regardless and am generally open to getting acquinted with (new) artists.

except for jpbear his bass scares me. s'like a guard dog with a mean, mean growl.

[MetalRenard]

I had a similar experience elsewhere so I spent around a year working on music 6-12 hours a day then came back and blew them all away. Having that kind of experience isn't all negative, as you said yourself. It's really hard to live it but it helps drive you if you don't give up!

Having said that I completely understand how you feel and I'd back you up in this endeavour. Let's talk about a method or something to win back the right mentality. Haha

[la-yinn]

At 11/15/12 05:34 AM, MetalRenard wrote:
Having said that I completely understand how you feel and I'd back you up in this endeavour. Let's talk about a method or something to win back the right mentality. Haha

I actually forgot to comment on that.

Big ups for the mentality OP. Feeling like you're pushed away and coming back on your own terms is admirable.

I think more audio people need to start coming to this part of the forum. There are just so many producers who don't even know this place exists. (Well.. except maybe the advertisement thread! hehe)

Maybe we can do more in terms of hosting competitions and the likes, to make this place a more proactive and energetic environment? I'm willing to put some effort into that myself, although it's probably going to be in early 2013.. swamped with school and the likes atm.

[MetalRenard]

I don't like competitions for music. The idea that one person's piece is "better" than the other is completely biased if you judge composition. It's ok to challenge someone in production or complex playing ability on guitar/piano etc.
What I'm saying is you can judge technical ability but you can't judge heart.

[la-yinn]

At 11/15/12 06:22 AM, MetalRenard wrote: I don't like competitions for music. The idea that one person's piece is "better" than the other is completely biased if you judge composition. It's ok to challenge someone in production or complex playing ability on guitar/piano etc.
What I'm saying is you can judge technical ability but you can't judge heart.

Maybe, but in the past these competitions attracted a lot of people and generally provided the energetic vibe I mentioned.

Don't forget that a competition brings out the competitive soul in people. They'll start challenging themselves just as much as anybody else.. and that'll bring out skills/abilities that they otherwise may not have touched.

I do agree with your statement otherwise; I don't think you can judge heart. (If anything that concept is what has kept me going for all these years hahaha) But you can judge effort, you can judge technical abilities. And you damn sure can applaud new creative highs.

[MetalRenard]

Fair argument. :)
*bows*

[eppskevin]

Tbh, I think that this has more to do with the type of music you make, and the age difference. I'm 33, and as it is in a lot of places, the average age for most of the people on a site is like 20. Not saying that there's something wrong with that, but people of that age don't always mentally relate with someone of my age. So, yeah, you have that. Then, from my experience, most of the people here are like ONLY into electronic music or classical. And, while I appreciate all forms of music, that's not the genre of music I express myself in. I'm more influenced by soulful hip hop, jazz, and neo-soul. My experience as that people who were on electric scene had a bais towards what I spoke through., whereas I didn't mind meeting them where they were. Yeah, but, my main issue was people not even reviewing and 0 bombing.

I think people are drawn to the contests because it finally gives them an opportunity for people to place their attention on them. They're, in a sense, guaranteed some listens and critiques. But yeah, I'm thinking of a way that we can open up a "group" on NG somehow. What would be nice if we could have our own "blog" area, where people could post their music into separate posts, and people review from there. The problem with threads is that they get so long, and people will ALWAYS get skipped over, due to the nature and behavior of a the thread.

Thoughts?

[MetalRenard]

On some forums I participate in, you're not allowed to post a song unless you review -AT LEAST- the previous poster's song. We could do that maybe. The review could be put in the thread and on the song itself.
I don't know how you'd enforce it though.

As for genres, my primary one is actually heavy metal/symphonic metal. I learnt about classical and electronica later on.

[eppskevin]

At 11/15/12 08:35 AM, MetalRenard wrote: On some forums I participate in, you're not allowed to post a song unless you review -AT LEAST- the previous poster's song. We could do that maybe. The review could be put in the thread and on the song itself.
I don't know how you'd enforce it though.

As for genres, my primary one is actually heavy metal/symphonic metal. I learnt about classical and electronica later on.

I actually like that idea. I'd go a step further and require at least the last two posted to be reviewed. I wish that we had the ability to delete posts, because we could simply delete the post if they didn't comply with the rules. I guess the people in the group could "skip" over their submission if they didn't see any reviews in the same post?

[eppskevin]

At 11/15/12 09:13 AM, dem0lecule wrote:

At 11/15/12 08:15 AM, eppskevin wrote: Tbh, I think that this has more to do with the type of music you make, and the age difference. I'm 33, and as it is in a lot of places, the average age for most of the people on a site is like 20.

Have to agree with it right here. I think age does affect greatly to music production. In fact it's more about age vs time you have. When we grow older, like many other adults, we all have career, family and own life to take care of. The time I spend on music production is now really a tiny portion in my life. Also I only have a little time more than a month to spare with anything else, musical or non musical activities.

However I don't think the genre difference is the problem. I know many young people like classical as many like punk, metal or dubstep. It's just matter on what kind demographic of audience you might get, in some amount of time. Also it affects on what kind of purpose your music might serve. If current NG AP is dominating by wub-heads then you are a cheap shot for doing classical. However classical can serve flash and/or game projects better than anything else! Just focus on the area your music works out the most, then you'll be fine.

My experience as that people who were on electric scene had a bais towards what I spoke through., whereas I didn't mind meeting them where they were. Yeah, but, my main issue was people not even reviewing and 0 bombing.

Jeez, so after we did merry-go-round, the returning destination is 0-BOMBING? I know it's sux balls to get bonus for 0-carpet-bombing every Tuesday night, but that's how the system works and you have to cope with it.

I think people are drawn to the contests because it finally gives them an opportunity for people to place their attention on them. They're, in a sense, guaranteed some listens and critiques.

Welp, contests are the best promotion paths for everyone. Competition gives improvement. You get to interact with other people directly. They are just excellent.

But yeah, I'm thinking of a way that we can open up a "group" on NG somehow.

Everyone already did and is doing it. In fact some other friends of mine and I rounded up a bunch of people to either combat 0-bomb by doing 5-bomb squad , voluntary do promotion works for other (I spend it all on my frontpage post), or spread their music on Youtube/Myspace projects.

What would be nice if we could have our own "blog" area, where people could post their music into separate posts, and people review from there. The problem with threads is that they get so long, and people will ALWAYS get skipped over, due to the nature and behavior of a the thread.

You can always make a separate one. I don't have time but I do have friends who thought about making separate promotion website or group.

Long or short threads don't matter. What matters, is the contents.

Thoughts?

Try to involving with the community more often. Do pro-bono works (best way to promote your own music is to give them for free). Review other music with positive, but honest matters (some people care about your critique than your rate for them).

Just so you know, all that you've mention is stuff that I've already come to realize while away. I was just stating that if people felt like I felt in the past(not currently), that I'm here to help them. Basically extending a hand to be a positive force really.

But I have disagree that genre difference isn't an issue. Because I see that all the time. Where people who are more on the heavy metal scene wouldn't even listen to a track if it's labelled "hip hop" because of their preconceived notions about the genre, and vice versa. Only when people come exposed to the history and true aspects of a genre, do they find an appreciation for it. But that requires research or life experiences. That's just the way it is.

As far as your group, I'll check it out. I have many groups that I've setup on other sites that have really been a great asset to a lot of artists to where they have really been growing and are very appreciate. Positiveness all around. One thing that I have found out is that, yea it's nice to have one solitary site where EVERYONE could come to, but sometimes people would rather stay on the site they're already comfortable with. So, I've made groups on those sites. I'm just finally moving back here to do the same, really. That's why I was asking for suggestions pertaining to NG is all.

[DivoFST]

Dont get this wrong but im not sure what you meant by "bashing", i felt sorry that you were getting mostly bashed here so i went to all your songs and checked the reviews...unless you have deleted your audio i found 27 positive comments and 1 negative but constructive review...i would say you actually get nicer reviews than the most of we do man xD
And i second what dem0lecule has said.

[eppskevin]

At 11/15/12 10:04 AM, dem0lecule wrote: It's obvious to have people in selective genre dislike other genres. It's what makes up the word 'genre'. Unless everyone on here is elitist, there are people who are fond with selective genres will listen to 'hiphop', whenever they like.

You have to treat your audiences, not them treating you. Learn about what your audiences like, what style and audition they enjoy. Chances are you gonna have more fans than I do currently, if you tune down your stubbornness and seek for better solutions.

I don't think what I said is stubbornness(unless that wasn't directed towards me). What you're saying is exactly what I just said, but in a different way. Maybe I should say that the audiences here are more electronic based, even though there's a "hip hop" area. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just calling it for what it is, and there's no need for anyone to take it personally.

But the fact that everytime I post something about anything, and I get responses where it seems like they're taking things personally is another annoyance. But, I guess that I have to realize that you guys don't really know me or what I'm about to really make an assessment. And I'm ok with that. I have no issues or beef with anyone and I'm very content, so you don't have to feel like you should explain things to me.

With that said, I know that there are probably others like how I WAS, not how I am NOW, and AGAIN, this is an invitation to them, that basically need a friend. That's all.

And yes, the negative ones were deleted. I was actually planning on deleting all of them, but I kept some up.I actually don't have a lot of music posted here, actually. Because I JUST got back.

So if you haven't experienced what I did, fine. It's all good. The luck of the draw. The ones that are experiencing it, I'm here for you. Simple as that.

[eppskevin]

At 11/15/12 11:21 AM, dem0lecule wrote: Tell me what's the similarity of my post to your? Beside I was pointing out how you need to cope with audience's desires while you are bashing the audience and also saying it's because of the genre's fault. How stubborn can you go?

Simply stating it like that, this thread of your is worthless. We had assholes who complains about same problem before, then why would your thread makes any difference?

No it doesn't, if you can't solve the problem yourself, then who can?

Say what? Your attitudes don't worth a click for me to fan you.

Wow, man. Heh.. I don't understand how you can't see what I'm saying, to be honest. I have repeatedly said that I don't have issues with other genres. I EVEN said that there are people on both sides of the fence that can be a little biased due to experience with a genre. Meaning, they were exposed to a bad form or a genre, and decided against the genre. That can be on both sides, hip hop OR electronic based. I'm just trying to figure out why I have to keep explaining this, man. Stop with the trolling, my dude. I love all genres and respect all genres. I done House, Video Game, DNB, Dubstep, Soul, Jazz, Funk, Hip hop, and Neo-Soul. So, I know about branching out into other genres.

You're basically trying to shoot the messenger for stating fact. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm just saying that it happens is all.

Instead of focusing on the non-important part of my post(the past, and what I thought in the PAST), focus on the here and now, my dude. Just extending a positive hand, and that's all.

At any rate, those who need a friend, let me know.

[ForeverBound]

hey can u give my songs a listen. because I wanna to learn what's good on them and what isn't. I get various feedback sometimes its all positive and it's a lot of feedback and other times there isn't any feedback. i hope u have some time because I'm always willing to learn

[Sundans]

I definitely feel as though constructive criticism lacks here, can't say for my partner though. Overall, I will check out your tracks since you and I feel the same way.

-Paul

[eppskevin]

At 11/16/12 04:12 AM, ForeverBound wrote: hey can u give my songs a listen. because I wanna to learn what's good on them and what isn't. I get various feedback sometimes its all positive and it's a lot of feedback and other times there isn't any feedback. i hope u have some time because I'm always willing to learn

Definitely, I'll definitely check your stuff out. Doing that now.

I NEED to put you in contact with a few of my musical buddies from my FB group. I really think that you guys could hit it off and make some great collabs, man. I'm listening to Enlightenment, and really digging it. Definitely giving me a boost that I needed today. Do you mind if I share some of your music with my friends for them to contact you and possibly get some collabs going?

[ForeverBound]

Definitely, I'll definitely check your stuff out. Doing that now.

I NEED to put you in contact with a few of my musical buddies from my FB group. I really think that you guys could hit it off and make some great collabs, man. I'm listening to Enlightenment, and really digging it. Definitely giving me a boost that I needed today. Do you mind if I share some of your music with my friends for them to contact you and possibly get some collabs going?

WOW thanks man and go ahead share it with the people i'm always open for new contacts and also for collabs. :D

[PythonBlue]

At 11/14/12 10:24 PM, eppskevin wrote: I've been a member since 2010, about when I started making music. At the time, I was really trying to grow, and although the negative comments helped me know that I needed to study more, no one was really specific on what I needed to work on, and I always felt alone here. Then, I discovered Soundcloud, Youtube, and Facebook(created a music group), and my experience on those places were the TOTAL opposite. People were actually HELPING instead of bashing. So, I decided to take a break from here as NG would only damage my spirits instead of help lift them. During my time away, I've been studying my weaknesses and experimenting to grow with a lot of things, and I know that I know a LOT more than I did in 2010. I just think if people here would've just given me a hint or SOMETHING of what their issues were with my music, I wouldn't have felt so driven away, I think.

With that said, I want to take what I have learned on the outside and help others who feel the same way that I felt. So, if any of you feel like no one is in your corner. I'm here to help. Let me know. We can all keep growing together.

Because unless you're a techie or a trapper, you don't have a lot of friends here. I'm a very soulful/jazzy guy, but I accept any kind of music that is full of musical expression.

Get at me if you need a positive experience here.

Thing is, I joined NewGrounds somewhat recently and can confidently say, at least in my case, that NewGrounds isn't much worse of a community at all than SoundCloud for my kind of music, which is not rap or dubstep. Yes, I have several followers there, but very few of them actively comment on my work, and of those that do, none offer suggestions for how to improve my work.

I'm going to be honest; I've had a serious depression for quite a while because so few people other than family will even bother to listen to my music, let alone be willing to pay me for my effort. This does not apply only to NewGrounds listeners; I've been on SoundCloud for over a year and still have yet to exceed 400 listens per week on a regular basis.

[jpbear]

At 11/17/12 12:53 PM, PythonBlue wrote:
I'm going to be honest; I've had a serious depression for quite a while because so few people other than family will even bother to listen to my music, let alone be willing to pay me for my effort. This does not apply only to NewGrounds listeners; I've been on SoundCloud for over a year and still have yet to exceed 400 listens per week on a regular basis.

k ill feed your attention craving for a minute,

dont even begin to expect listeners making ambient music, its masturbatory music by nature (not necessarily a bad thing). 400 listens a week is A LOT more than youd think. I can probably count on two hands the amount of people making a living off of only ambient music.

On this website you've only posted three songs, all of them seem to be omnisphere presets. And omnisphere is one expensive hunk of technology you sure you bought it?

good ambient music has progression(imo), be it in texture or melodic progression. A song with neither of the previously mentioned is not going to capture anyone's attention.

Stop being dumb.

[PythonBlue]

At 11/17/12 01:07 PM, jpbear wrote: dont even begin to expect listeners making ambient music, its masturbatory music by nature (not necessarily a bad thing). 400 listens a week is A LOT more than youd think. I can probably count on two hands the amount of people making a living off of only ambient music.

On this website you've only posted three songs, all of them seem to be omnisphere presets. And omnisphere is one expensive hunk of technology you sure you bought it?

good ambient music has progression(imo), be it in texture or melodic progression. A song with neither of the previously mentioned is not going to capture anyone's attention.

Stop being dumb.

Thank you for showing off why I didn't upload my entire catalog here. And enough with your own BS: I've already proven that I have more than just Omnisphere, for one.

[PythonBlue]

You know what? Fine. Apparently this thread has turned into an anti-me thread instead of staying on-topic, so I'm just leaving. I'm done being bullied, here.

[MetalRenard]

Well thanks to the trolls. I think when you saw the title of this thread you two were just waiting for one person to show weakness and then you jumped in like your cowardly little selves always do, and made them feel even worse about themselves.
Do us all a favour and just go. This thread is obviously not a place for the two of you. The point of this thread is to encourage positive feedback and what you've just done is taken out his guts and thrown them to the birds.

You could have said everything you just said but with different words, yet you chose to be cruel and rude. That's the difference between good criticism and bullshit trash like what you guys give out, especially you Demwhateverthehellyournameis.

Anyway, lets get back to the thread and let this be an example of what we're NOT looking for.

[eppskevin]

At 11/17/12 04:30 PM, MetalRenard wrote: Well thanks to the trolls. I think when you saw the title of this thread you two were just waiting for one person to show weakness and then you jumped in like your cowardly little selves always do, and made them feel even worse about themselves.
Do us all a favour and just go. This thread is obviously not a place for the two of you. The point of this thread is to encourage positive feedback and what you've just done is taken out his guts and thrown them to the birds.

You could have said everything you just said but with different words, yet you chose to be cruel and rude. That's the difference between good criticism and bullshit trash like what you guys give out, especially you Demwhateverthehellyournameis.

Anyway, lets get back to the thread and let this be an example of what we're NOT looking for.

^EXACTLY! And PythonBlue, it's all good. I'll give you a peep on Monday and give my feedback. Those are just little kids and little minds that crave attention. I'm trying to do my part and help others, so let's focus on that please. And again, PythonBlue, I'll get with you soon, man.