Cars.gov <--- Do Not Vist.

[homor]

the government run website related to the "Cash for Clunkers" program "Cars.gov" (which i will not link to.) just trampled all over civil rights. and we can't say boo about it.

Video of the site in Action on the Glenn Beck show.

for those who are afraid of or angered by Glenn Beck's insanity, here's the scoop:

if log into this site and agree to a deal, the Government is allowed to search your computer and treat all its content as their properity. and if you happen to be using something like Skype or Aol and you're on the phone, the Government can track what calls you make. AND THIS IS 100% LEGAL.

the 4th Amendment doesn't apply, thanks to their wealely legal wording. by clicking "ok" you're basically allowing the Government to violate your 4th amendment rights.

i guess its supposed to prevent fruad in the system, but this is the most slimey and underhanded way of doing it.

this site should be banned by Internet providers. this is a disgusting violation of rights, and a LEGAL one at that.

PLEASE NOTE:
i will not link to this site. its for your own good.

discuss.

[rockerdog5]

Your right, what they're doing is very wrong but sadly completely expected. We all knew the day would come when the government became so nervous that it traces phone calls and does random searches.

[Timi]

Of course, legal violations of our rights are allowed. Has our government, who are supposed to protect us, going to watch over us like dogs? Almost seems Socialist to a degree, imo.

Thanks for the heads-up about this, because I didn't know about it. I should read up on this kind of news more often.

[Bacchanalian]

First off, the agreement is for DEALERS not us.

Secondly, the government 's ownership of the dealer's computer only applies when that computer is logged into the website.

If you walk into a U.S. army base, expect to be searched eh?

[GayDorf]

What do you have to fear?

Jesus, homor, you must be a prolific pedophile to be that afraid of having your computer searched.

[homor]

At 8/4/09 12:47 AM, Bacchanalian wrote: First off, the agreement is for DEALERS not us.

except that this can effect anyone who logs into their site at any time. so its not just for dealers.

Secondly, the government 's ownership of the dealer's computer only applies when that computer is logged into the website.

and so it makes it okay for them to trample all over your rights so long as its only while you're logged onto their site?

If you walk into a U.S. army base, expect to be searched eh?

right except i'm not in army base, i'm sitting at my own computer, in my own home.

[Erty]

At 8/3/09 10:11 PM, RDSchley wrote: This is why my sig is my sig.

Our governemnt can blow me.

Can we please start a revolution now?

I'll be a leader.

I will start shipping the Guy Fawkes masks and make sure the explosives are ready, sir!

[Buffalow]

Like you said, OP, 'by clicking ok.....you'd agree to....'. It's a voluntary agreement, no one is forcing you to make it. Just stay off the website and the government won't bother you.

[RubberTrucky]

Like they say, if you click OK, permission is given and they search you.
It's not (yet) that they demand access to everyones computer.

Even then, I wouldn't care until they arrest you for something stupid as illegal downloading or minor references to CP.

[Memorize]

At 8/4/09 09:39 AM, Buffalow wrote: Like you said, OP, 'by clicking ok.....you'd agree to....'. It's a voluntary agreement, no one is forcing you to make it. Just stay off the website and the government won't bother you.

Except that their prompt states that when you log in, it considers your computer and every file on it to be their property.

Even if you agree to a search, that does not make what you bought/made legally their property.

It's the equal of attempting to find a loophole and corner the individual in so they wouldn't have a choice but to click "accept".

You're in a recession. You've lost your job. The government uses it as an excuse to take control of auto-makers and then uses that to say "if you need money, come to us... but we get to have total control over your property".

[Sajberhippien]

This has to be one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen.

Could I do this as a private person? I'll start up a site, make people click an "agree" button, and have the deal include my right to their whole life.

[Sajberhippien]

Well, this was stupid. From what I've gathered, the moment this became public knowledge they changed the wording.

Now, of course it was horrible that this wording was there before, but why the warning about visiting the page then, homor? It's no danger anymore.

[Memorize]

At 8/4/09 10:47 AM, Sajberhippien wrote: Well, this was stupid. From what I've gathered, the moment this became public knowledge they changed the wording.

Now, of course it was horrible that this wording was there before, but why the warning about visiting the page then, homor? It's no danger anymore.

But keep in mind that just because they may have either changed the wording or gotten rid of it altogether that it doesn't necessarily mean that by clicking "agree" they still don't do it.

Remember, under the Patriot Act the Government can raid your house to look like a robbery and not have to tell you for, I think, a full year.

[Ericho]

Why watch "The Daily Show" when I can get all of my news information from here?

[homor]

At 8/4/09 11:01 AM, Memorize wrote: But keep in mind that just because they may have either changed the wording or gotten rid of it altogether that it doesn't necessarily mean that by clicking "agree" they still don't do it.

of course now that there isn't an agreement if they're still doing it, they can be sued.

[RubberTrucky]

At 8/4/09 10:17 AM, Memorize wrote:
You're in a recession. You've lost your job. The government uses it as an excuse to take control of auto-makers and then uses that to say "if you need money, come to us... but we get to have total control over your property".

It is only for the time logged in and I would trust them only searching your hard drive or something. I doubt they would sell the PC or tamper with it. It's possible, but it's too cynic.

[Prinzy2]

So what about my computer? I'm sure there would be another set of laws that would protect me from the government from seizing information from my computer.

[Memorize]

At 8/4/09 02:09 PM, RubberTrucky wrote:

It is only for the time logged in and I would trust them only searching your hard drive or something. I doubt they would sell the PC or tamper with it. It's possible, but it's too cynic.

It's that possibility that I don't like.

Our government doesn't exactly have the best track record of doing things correctly.

[Bacchanalian]

At 8/4/09 01:31 AM, homor wrote: except that this can effect anyone who logs into their site at any time. so its not just for dealers.

Um... no? It's just for dealers and only upon submitting the final transaction to the DoT CARS system. And that's something YOU can't do. Neither registration inquiries nor signing up nor visiting the site enable the government to claim your computer as its property.

and so it makes it okay for them to trample all over your rights so long as its only while you're logged onto their site?

They're not trampling over anyone's rights.

right except i'm not in army base, i'm sitting at my own computer, in my own home.

Logging into the DoT isn't exactly like logging into Newgrounds.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

thanks for the info Homor!!

[homor]

At 8/4/09 05:08 PM, Bacchanalian wrote: Um... no?

shit. got me there.

They're not trampling over anyone's rights.

except they are.

[Memorize]

At 8/4/09 05:08 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

Um... no? It's just for dealers and only upon submitting the final transaction to the DoT CARS system. And that's something YOU can't do. Neither registration inquiries nor signing up nor visiting the site enable the government to claim your computer as its property.

Except when you provide all of your personal information to the dealer such as your social security number which would be stored on the Dealer's computer which the Government has free and total access/ownership over.

Which means that they get to view your personal information WITHOUT your consent.

[Bacchanalian]

At 8/4/09 09:18 PM, Memorize wrote: Which means that they get to view your personal information WITHOUT your consent.

Actually it means they don't get to intercept, monitor, record, copy, audit, inspect, or disclose your personal information without your consent since they do not have your consent - unless you signed a really weird contract with your dealer.

[Memorize]

At 8/5/09 12:19 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

At 8/4/09 09:18 PM, Memorize wrote: Which means that they get to view your personal information WITHOUT your consent.

Actually it means they don't get to intercept, monitor, record, copy, audit, inspect, or disclose your personal information without your consent since they do not have your consent - unless you signed a really weird contract with your dealer.

If all of your information is on the Dealer's computer and the Government has total access and ownership over their Computer as a result of their agreement, how do you prove that the government did or did not look at your files without your consent?

[zcb123]

I had heard about that And I wondered. Why the hell is this not font page news everywhere. Are people to infatuated with the obama administration that they can see a clear violation of rights.

[Bacchanalian]

At 8/5/09 12:23 PM, Memorize wrote: If all of your information is on the Dealer's computer and the Government has total access and ownership over their Computer as a result of their agreement, how do you prove that the government did or did not look at your files without your consent?

What does being able to prove whether the government actually looked at your personal information have to do with it?

I thought we were talking about whether the government had the right to?

[Memorize]

At 8/5/09 12:36 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

I thought we were talking about whether the government had the right to?

If my information is on the Dealer's computer (if there's no agreement between me and the dealer regarding my privacy on his/her computer), then the dealer logs on to the Gov. site which allows total Gov. control and ownership of the Dealer's computer, then obviously they do not have a right to view MY personal information.

So since they do not have that right regarding me (rather than the Dealer), how could I possibly prove that the Government did or did not illegally view my personal information?

See? It's not hard to figure out.

[Bacchanalian]

At 8/5/09 12:53 PM, Memorize wrote: So since they do not have that right regarding me (rather than the Dealer), how could I possibly prove that the Government did or did not illegally view my personal information?

See? It's not hard to figure out.

I still don't understand what being able to prove it has to do with the discussion. If I get stabbed in a dark alley, know who the stabber is, but have no proof that it was that individual, what ramifications does that have on the individual's right to stab me?

The contract between the government and the dealer does not allow the government to legally inspect or disclose your personal information.

To turn around and say, "but they still might" is really another discussion altogether. Honestly, the contract you have with your ISP probably provides the U.S. government more wiggle room to abuse your personal information than this CARS.gov contract.

[homor]

At 8/5/09 01:02 PM, Bacchanalian wrote: The contract between the government and the dealer does not allow the government to legally inspect or disclose your personal information.

yeah, but they can anyway. and they probably will.

now i know what you're thinking

"WHAAAT? MY PERFECT GOVERNMENT, COMMIT A CRIME?! OUTRAGEOUS!"

but yeah, they can do it.

[Memorize]

At 8/5/09 01:02 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

To turn around and say, "but they still might" is really another discussion altogether. Honestly, the contract you have with your ISP probably provides the U.S. government more wiggle room to abuse your personal information than this CARS.gov contract.

You forget the fact that the Government is capable of writing its own search warrants without a Judge, all due to the Patriot Act.