Any plans to have NGReview cleanup?

[Esn]

Hey there, this is kinda a question to the "powers that be", though I'm sure that it's been asked countless times before.

I was just wondering if the review clean-up that Tom has advertised on the front page of Newgrounds is applying, or will ever apply, to the audio portal. I've noticed that there is no actual way to rate an audio review helpfull, not helpfull, or abusive, which seems somewhat odd to me.

With the new clean-up in the flash portal that is now underway, now would be a perfect time to apply the same rigid standards to the audio portal. The audio portal may well be in greater need of them, actually.

There has been discussion lately about a certain user who has created his account for the express purpose of leaving "0" reviews and voting "0". Although there is a chance that an appeal to the admins about him may result in the suspension of his account, I actually hope that this doesn't happen because this would not fix the cause of the problem.

It would be like taking a decongestant for a flu, and I hope that the community will not accept this as a solution.

Here's one of his reviews that shows what I'm trying to say:

"i will zero music until i get BAN and im a badman
Originality: 0 Clarity: 0 Diversity: 0 Effort: 0

Author's response:
I've been doing it for about a year and a half, nearly 2 years, and I haven't gotten one.

So you are going to be zero-voting forever, my good friend.

Thanks for the review."

Banning this guy will solve nothing. I'm actually glad that he has turned up because he has highlighted the problem. Until the stringent standards that apply to the flash reviews on Newgrounds are made to apply to the Audio Portal, nothing will change.

Is there any chance of this ever happening?

[PERVOK]

At 10/25/06 12:54 AM, Esn wrote: "i will zero music until i get BAN and im a badman
Originality: 0 Clarity: 0 Diversity: 0 Effort: 0

Author's response:
I've been doing it for about a year and a half, nearly 2 years, and I haven't gotten one.

So you are going to be zero-voting forever, my good friend.

Thanks for the review."

Shit, someone was paying attention to how I respond to peoples reviews!

:O

[Mataro]

I just had a revolutionary idea.. How about instead of having the rater seperate from the review, you add a category beside the 'Overall' that is out of five, and that is where your rate is shown, so it shows others (or just the author if that is how you want to set it up) what someone rated it, then you can press under 'Was this review helpful?' and the answers you could choose would be 'Yes', 'No', 'Abusive' and 'Bomb'. Yes and no are just opinions, consistantly abusive reviews can result in trouble of course, and a review marked as 'Bomb' by enough users would be nullified, the review would stay, but because that amount given to the song is kept record of, and the experience total of the user at the time could be recorded, so as to be able to completely undo a bomb, and if you have reviewed a song and your review was 'spotted' then it also prevents you from reviewing that song again. Consistant review bombing would result in a suspension of the ability to review. Some examples... (The answer chosen will be in capitols).

Good review:

This was great! Overall: 9 Rate: 4
Reviewed by: Mataro
This was a nearly flawless piece, although it had a few annoying issues,
the sound seemed somewhat distorted and was out of sync in some
places. Nice job anyway, the piano and electric guitar oddly sounded
quite in harmony with eachother, and fitted the beat well. Keep it up!

Originality: 8 Clarity: 7 Diversity: 9 Effort: 10
Was this review helpful? 'YES' 'no 'abusive' 'bomb'

And so that review would stay and it could inform others what you thought of the review, where as a review like this...

Bomb Review:

.... Overall: 0 Rate:0
Reviewed by: Mataro
...
Originality: 0 Clarity: 0 Diversity: 0 Effort: 0
Was this review helpful? 'yes' 'no' 'abusive' 'BOMB'

And that review after being flagged would automatically be deleted and I would have been prohibited from reviewing this song again, if my giving it a zero dropped its score from a 4 to a 2.30, then when my review gets deleted, it would raise the score up the amount it was dropped, in comparison to the amount of rates it has been given and whatnot, so that might mean that the score is 3.90 when my review gets its final gasp of air, and that might raise the song up to 4.20.

Of course its up to the user to decide whether a review is being abusive, or just bombing, but one should be able to select both in case it turned out to be both.

I hope you guys understood all that, I tried to make it as clear as possible. Anyone else care to elaborate? =D

[Esn]

I'm not sure how "bomb" is different from "abusive" in your idea - if enough people mark a review on the flash portal "abusive" it gets deleted too.

The "rating" idea is interesting, but I'm not really for forcing someone to review a film in order to rate it. For two reasons: Sometimes I'd rather leave a vote than a review (for the same reason that I do that on the flash portal), and also because it will result in more unhelpful reviews (because people will just leave a short review so they can rate it - I think the quality of reviews will probably drop).

[Mataro]

Ah, but you could also set it so that in default it shows the order of reviews chronologically, or you could set it to show reviews starting from the most helpful. It would keep count of the amount of times a review has been marked as helpful and unhelpful, so that you can easily filter through the poor reviews to read the interesting ones. How is that? :D

[Esn]

That IS a good idea. :) I like that one.

[Mataro]

Ah, a way to stop zero bombing is at hand! Too bad I forget the topic where I'm supposed to put my ideas for changes T.T. If anyone knows it, please let me know :D.

[Rucklo]

If you have any complaints, I´m sure RageVI would like You to contact him. He´s an audio moderator, and even though he does not have the ability to delete songs from the portal, he can probably take care of audio reviews at least.
PM him.

[Mataro]

Not only stop bad reviews, but stop zero bombing in the process lol. This would require some overhauling, and possibly a reset of all songs statuses, or at least most of them, maybe a system could be set up where the artist can select which songs of theirs have been judged unfairly. I doubt a mod could really have the power to do this, this would require editing of the core script, I think it could turn out great though! :D

[Esn]

I sent a PM to RageVI directing him to this thread and asking very nicely if there is anything he can do to persuade one of the higher-ups to extend the review cleanup to the audio portal.

[Esn]

Well, it seems that ZeroVoter was banned and all of his reviews deleted. However, the underlying problem wasn't fixed. RageVI told me that the review system on the Audio Portal MIGHT be getting an overhaul sometime, but he doesn't really know anything for sure.

Just another thought - it would be nice if people could see the vote breakdown on their films, so they could tell if their low scores are due to a ZeroVoter or due to a lot of different people. It'll never happen of course, but it's a good idea...

Another good idea would be allowing people to vote more than once on audio submissions and giving people more experience for more voting, like on the flash portal. Doing that would make the effect of ZeroVoters negligible, because newbies wouldn't have a lot of voting power and the more experienced users would not be ZeroVoters.

[Khuskan]

The audio portal review system is like the flast review system... 3 years ago. It dosn't have any reporting features, so its impossible to keep track of abuse. That and I'm not sure if audio reviews can actually be deleted without removing an entire user account.

[iros-industrial]

i would just like to point out that the audio review system needs some fising
my songs' scores havebeen dropped multiple times becasue of zerovoter. even though his account has been deleted my audio scores have remained low

[hubjkl5]

At 10/27/06 07:55 PM, iros-industrial wrote: i would just like to point out that the audio review system needs some fising
my songs' scores havebeen dropped multiple times becasue of zerovoter. even though his account has been deleted my audio scores have remained low

He got another account - ZeroVoter2 *rolls eyes* Just ignore the little prick. He'll eventually go back to playing WoW and masturbating to elves.

[Esn]

At 10/27/06 07:55 PM, iros-industrial wrote: i would just like to point out that the audio review system needs some fising
my songs' scores havebeen dropped multiple times becasue of zerovoter. even though his account has been deleted my audio scores have remained low

That's why I think that the flash portal voting system should be brought in for the audio portal, because it will make the effect of zero voters negligible. People will be able to vote for a submission several times, until the overall public is comfortable with the score. And also, since experienced users' votes will count more and experienced users probably aren't going to vote "zero"...

If it was implemented, the community would be able to vote for your submissions daily until they were back to an acceptable level. As it is now, someone can create 10 "zerovoter" accounts and seriously hurt someone's score. It rewards people for creating multiple accounts, whereas the flash voting system rewards people for staying with a single account for a long time.

[Rucklo]

At 10/28/06 06:07 AM, Esn wrote:

If it was implemented, the community would be able to vote for your submissions daily until they were back to an acceptable level. As it is now, someone can create 10 "zerovoter" accounts and seriously hurt someone's score.

that only goes for reviewing, when it comes to voting (0-5) only one vote/ IP and account can be made.

Also
if you have any good ideas for the system, write them down
here. What youve been talking (fp system in ap)about have of course already been written down, and discussed... ;)

[Sandwhich-lord]

i have only one idea and that would to be to see the last ten people who voted for you so you could at least say thanks or pick out the zero voters

[Esn]

At 10/28/06 06:48 PM, Rucklo wrote: that only goes for reviewing, when it comes to voting (0-5) only one vote/ IP and account can be made.

But many people don't keep the same IP each time they sign onto the internet.

Just wondering: is there any particular reason why the flash voting/experience system was NOT implemented in the audio portal?

[IamMark]

a lot of the ideas mentioned here have been said before. allthough they are not bad ideas your typical response would be that newgrounds is mainly for lfash animations rather than audio submissions...even though they are for flash artists to use. the best idea i had would be for people to have to write a review if they voted under a certain score which may deter some people from even bothering due to pure laziness.

also somebody mentioned something that would involve reseting all of the scores for all audio submissons. that would be pure chaos. and many great songs would probably never be noticed again. it seems that anything past page 3 for any genre is the void where most songs just get lost. and then you just get a bunch of people blatently self-advertising their songs in whatever thread they can find for people asking for music.

[attemptedperfection]

As far as rating someone's review as "yes, no, abusive, or bomb," it would need to be done by a significant number bystanders, else anyone could just delete any of their low-scoring reviews.

[Carbo]

all i can say that Audio portal Should be Like the flash portal