We don't have private schools 'round here.
But i'm on a Gymnasium, which is quite the highest you can achieve.
American Education sucks for putting all levels on the same school. This creates an uneasy environment.

At 2/7/07 01:33 PM, TwO-FaCeD-PaRaNoID wrote: We don't have private schools 'round here.
But i'm on a Gymnasium, which is quite the highest you can achieve.
American Education sucks for putting all levels on the same school. This creates an uneasy environment.

Didn't know that the education system from the netherlands was like the German one.

At 2/7/07 02:28 PM, Der-Lowe wrote:

At 2/7/07 01:33 PM, TwO-FaCeD-PaRaNoID wrote: We don't have private schools 'round here.
But i'm on a Gymnasium, which is quite the highest you can achieve.
American Education sucks for putting all levels on the same school. This creates an uneasy environment.

Didn't know that the education system from the netherlands was like the German one.

They are quite similar. Real Schule is (not sure) like our VMBO and Haubtschule like HAVO/VWO. Our system if superior to the American, because people of equal intelligence are put together. However, the VMBO here lacks the teaching of practical skills.
They should focus on how to learn a proffesion.

At 2/7/07 02:40 PM, JMHX wrote: Burn the schools, build churches.

Education problem solved.

Burn churches, build brothels.

And by brothels, I mean schools.

Education problem solved.

We must remove the apathy from the children in the system. I admit this will not be easy. However, I notice that a lack of discipline is evident. Think of it like this. Student tells teacher to fuck themselves, throws pencils, disrupts class, etc. What happens is generally a detention is assigned. This is on the basis that no one likes detention,s which is correct. However, lets say the kid skips it. They either get a longer one, or saturday school. If longer, it progresses to sat school. Now who is gonna go to sat school. Then they get suspension. This only rewards the kids (in a way) by giving them what they want. Suspension is only punishment for those who wish to learn. We must apply punishments that are more, universal.

Note that these would all be after the detention phase (or for more dire infractions)

Forced janitorial work, in chains (like a detention) (because if they act like shit, it'll be the only job they can get) Has benefit of keeping school clean.
Whippings, floggings, being used by the football team as a dummy, beatings, etc. simple enough, no one likes being hurt (ok, almost no one, sorry to you masochists out there)
Monetray punishments. For the poor, they could opt for one of the others.
Overnight prison stays. Give em a taste of their future.

If none of that works, than the child is a lost cause, and must be discarded like the refuse he or she is.

The problem with the school's dicsiplinary issues is that when ever someone does something wrong, they only thing they get is a detention. Like you said, Suspensions only reward the kids who don't want to be in school because it removes them from a place they don't like. If you ask me, I think certain people should be forced to stay in school from 6-5 everyday.

I'm tired of the whole 'everyone's a winner' and 'you're feelings matter to me' bull shit. Out in the real world, most of the time, your boss isn't going to give a flying fuck about your emotional needs and if you can't do your job right the first time, they'll find someone else to do it. The school systems set everyone up for failure because no one is allowed to have their feelings hurt and they give everyone as many chances as they want to get it right. The real world is nothing like that.

At 2/6/07 05:40 PM, Planktonboy wrote: Pretty unfair statement,

Not really. To have a fairness we must not tramble on other peoples freedoms to stroke our moral-cocks, now do we? Banning private schools is the most idiotic idea I've ever heard.

there are many choices we don't have the right to make e.g. the choice to steal, kill.

Yes. because those choices directly harm others. Me going to a private school will not cause another person to lose something, more so that I gain.

He's asserting that private schools shouldn't have existed to begin with. however this isn't the case so we have to create (gradually) a better, more equal system

I know what he said. And I was parodying his position by giving the impression it sounds like something a Communist Dictator would inact.

This is pretty irrelavent to the discussion. We don't really care about luxuries, we're discussing education.

Not so at all. Liberals bitch about how the poor cannot succeed. I was dispelling this propaganda by reiterting if immigrants that came over here in the early 20th Century with nothing but the clothes on their back and are able to live in decadence within fourty years then why isn't the modern poor person? They did not have as many social nets of security back then, yet the hardworking immigrants prevailed against their disadvantages.

The first (and my favourite) topic is on birthrights and to what extent we are equal or should be equal at birth.

A person's qualities are determined by their genotype.

The second is to do with how to rectify the American education system's faults as partially outlined by the video.

I've said this many times: the problem with the American education system is that it's runned like a socialist state instead of a capitalist corporation. In Europe and Japan they do not have the degree of universal education we in the US do, and the fact they do better proves the inferiority of socialism to capitalism.

On the first topic I personally feel that the system in place for the whole of humanity is unfair. However since we can't choose our family there's little to be done about it.

I was born with dyslexia. Life isn't fair, you can either play the part of victim and always fail or work hard and move beyond your disadvantages at birth.

However as a species we tend to recognise that one area in which there is a level playing field is our intellects.

Everyone is a dumbass.

I know some people are born stupid but what we can do in this case is to give a fair chance to reach their potential, intelligence is only relative after all.

And don't get mad at me if I laugh at you for that sentiment. What one person will learn from observing creation is that neither gods nor nature show any compassion for those that cannot adapt. Why should others with promise be lowered for the sake of one? I am not against charity, but I really hate the sound of a system that would screech to a halt for the imperfections of one individual and this is coming from someone who is partially-retarded.

However as humans we feel this is wrong (since we'd personally hate to be the one missing out) and object to it.

That is unless you're the one getting the kick-backs. Then you couldn't give less of a shit.
Another thing you'll learn from studying creation is the nature of humans. Humanity as a whole is comprised by a bunch of hypocritical assholes that only care when they suffer and remain silent when they're on the top of the ladder. That is why arguments relying on human emotion alone (such as yours) is meaningless.

You seem to have an unrealistic view of humanity.

Many people will feel that the money that goes into private education could be redirected somehow into creating a decent public education system (if money is indeed what is required).

Once more I'll dubb you a fool for the sentiment. Problems aren't resolved by just throwing money at it. For the last goddamn time the problem isn't funding, the problem is the way public schools are runned.

And once more why do you get to decide to rob others of a given right for a half-assed attempt to better public schools when it's confirmed they're hopelessly beyond redemption at this point?

The idea is that rather than lowering everyone to a crappy standard, everyone gets an acceptable standard of education. As I implied in a previous post (way way up the thread) a degree of mixing is beneficial to all parties involved.

Read posts above.

In further condemnation of private education I'd like to refer to a friend of mine from college. His grades are great, however he's got them by working very, very, very hard the whole time. This is a large feature of private education since you are forced to by the school who want to preserve their rankings and by parents who want to get the most out of their investment to work hard.

Tell me, has your friend learned the lessons of frugality and honest labor from this? Whether you realize it or not just an academic learning process. Not only that, but the competitiveness of the school to "perserve" its ranking is the reason it's so great. It doesn't have the government to bale it out of undesirable circumstances such as corruption and incompetence. Not only that, but it must compete for its students.

What I am trying to say is that while private schooling generates good grades, it doesn't often produce the extra intelligence and appreciation of scientific method etc. that is the most desirable output of education.

In that case public schools must sorely disappoint you. Why do you think they fail so much? It's because of the mediocrity produced by their institution. When a school does not need to worry about going out of business it has no need to improve upon its cirriculum. The only thing that can redeem public schools is for them to relinquish some of the socialist elements it has.

We don't want people with art or science degrees, we want artists and scientists. My argument is that private schooling doesn't produce these qualities particularly well so there is no point in some people receiveing private schooling and others barely receiving an education at all.

Now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. Explain to me, how public schools would do any better manufacturing such candidates when their systems are detrimental overall?