The worst terror attack since 9/11

[coaliscool42]

A few reactions I expect from the Orlando shooting:

- Nightclubs/bars across the US will ramp up "security" (theater, that is)
- Obama makes a speech about the shooting
- News agencies get mad at the FBI for not doing their job
- Liberals will conveniently forget the suspect was an American citizen
- Topical gun control discussions

[coaliscool42]

At 6/12/16 07:17 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: A link or two would be helpful OP

link

[Obsix]

He was a US citizen, FFS. With guns easily available in America, even with mental disorders a person can just get a gun and start a shooting spree..., we need to do something about how guns are issued and some way to assess the people who receive these guns.

[AcidX]

Wouldn't the worst terror attack since 9/11 be when we bombed a civilian hospital in Syria, full of innocents and the last paediatrician in the whole of that area? Or what about Boko Haram basically taking over Western Africa and making thousands of people just disappear.

Or do they only count if American lives are lost??

Well I'm fed up of this story already and to see it over-sensationalised, then linked to 9/11 is exactly what I've come to expect from you America.

[MasterStalker]

At 6/12/16 09:17 PM, coaliscool42 wrote:

At 6/12/16 07:17 PM, X-Gary-Gigax-X wrote: A link or two would be helpful OP

link

Funny joke, except every hit lead somewhere different and not at all the same source. Fail, try again

[MasterStalker]

At 6/12/16 01:44 PM, coaliscool42 wrote: A few reactions I expect from the Orlando shooting:

- Nightclubs/bars across the US will ramp up "security" (theater, that is)

Up to the owners of these establishments. Some definitely will. Some probably wont.

- Obama makes a speech about the shooting

Agreed, he probably will make a televised acknowledgement.

- News agencies get mad at the FBI for not doing their job

Not entirely correct. News outlets gets eyeballs on screens and papers so they'll dial up the horrors to 11 and utilize all the click bait, inferences and speculation they can. FBI could be pointed at, but so will absolutely everything and anything else.

- Liberals will conveniently forget the suspect was an American citizen

You mean conservatives. According to the hardline and tea party people I know personally, no American has ever committed domestic terrorism. (I know what you're thinking, Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, and Eric Robert Rodolf were apparently either not terrorists, or not American. Who would have ever guessed.) And besides, I thought all liberals were going to ban all guns. So why would they care if it was an American or not?

- Topical gun control discussions

Well, this goes without saying, and no consensus will ever be reach because the loud minority on the fringe left and right will drown out all the reasonable adults in the room who opted to use our indoor voices.

At 6/13/16 12:26 AM, AcidX wrote: Or do they only count if American lives are lost??

Well one usually talks about something like this in reference to where they live.... so probably? As a Brit, what would you say your country's biggest terror attack was? I can think of a few but I don't know size and scope like an local would know.

Well I'm fed up of this story already and to see it over-sensationalised, then linked to 9/11 is exactly what I've come to expect from you America.

Actually, most people on this side of the pond seldom if ever feel the need to invoke 9/11. He's the exception, not the rule. As for actual commentation, I cant do that yet because I only heard about it today and haven't read anything yet.

[Sheizenhammer]

I'm honestly having a hard time calling this one a "terror" attack. The guy was mentally unstable to the point of self-unaware, and I always have doubts when it comes to people like that claiming their motives to be political or religious in intent. 9 times out of 10, people like that do these things because of spontaneous insanity, not any coherent understanding or dedication to a cause.

Chances are he claimed to be a member of IS on the day for no real reason, and IS were only too happy to take some of the media attention for themselves as a result. I'd be surprised if the authorities ever find any evidence of him having prior links with real IS members in the past; he probably just saw America's own news coverage of IS and identified with them out of psychosis. Happens all the time with lunatics like this.

It'd be nice if people don't immediately go chalking this one up to border control / background check failures etc. if the guy was 10 parts lunatic to 1 part IS member, if you get where I'm coming from. The fact that he was a hate-filled nutjob is what caused this, not really IS - He'd have probably just found something else to do it 'in the name of', if IS didn't exist.

[Sheizenhammer]

At 6/13/16 06:50 AM, Obama2016 wrote: If taking Islam out of the equation is what you were driving at, eradicating it would be the only way to find out if you're actually right or just spewing shit you have zero clue about.

What I'm driving at is the similarity between this and other cases of crazies killing or injuring people out of ill-perceived reasons I've seen over the years. Makes me question how much the claims about IS were actually valid is all. And no, you don't need to 'eradicate' it in this case: If communications experts going through his emails, online and phone history reveal no trace of any contact with known IS sympathisers, organisations or members, he was either the best sleeper cell ever, or not really involved with them. You can perform these checks before or after the fact; you don't need a 'control' situation in which IS doesn't exist for this to work with reasonable accuracy.

Would special camps for the quasi-violent, mentally ill be a plausible solution? How would you prevent a person like the FL shooter from rampaging?

There's no such thing as being able to prevent things like this from ever happening - no system short of a 'thought police' would have the remit to remove people from society before they do things like this, as the atrocity is often the first and only clue anyone gets as to what's really going on in these people's heads. And good luck selling the idea of a thought police to anyone.

One thing I will suggest is that, regardless of how much sense you think current gun control laws make in the US, would it not make more sense to at least have them standardised across all states? All else aside, it's all the same country, so what's the need for different laws in different states? It might not do a whole lot to prevent cases such as the Orlando shooting, but removing the idea that there are 'easy' places to get guns in the USA can't be a bad thing, can it? Exactly which state's laws should be adopted across the whole country is something I'll let people with more knowledge than me debate, but it'd be as fair a place as any to start with this whole gun control thing, IMO.

[aviewaskewed]

At 6/13/16 12:26 AM, AcidX wrote: Well I'm fed up of this story already and to see it over-sensationalised, then linked to 9/11 is exactly what I've come to expect from you America.

If you look at responsible journalistic coverage they make it clear to add "on American soil" to the end of the other bit. I think what happens here is because so many users are American, they forget that this site has many users from outside of it and therefore don't think to add the other part. I think it's more a case of an honest mistake on their part then any sort of "it only matters if it happens to America"

[orangebomb]

The more I look at this, the more I realize that this isn't an act of Islamic terror, (at least supported by ISIS/Al-Qaeda, though they aren't condoning it either) as much as it is a huge hate crime, even if there is a few overlapping parallels. Now I think we should keep in mind that contrary to what outside America thinks, mass shootings in general are quite rare in this country. The unfortunate thing is that this make such sordid and inflammatory headlines coming from both respected media sources and others, there is calls for a total overreactionary change in the laws when it comes to gun laws, mental health and so on, it's hard not to see why there is little, if any change when both sides don't want to budge.

First off, banning guns outright (or even banning one type of gun) is not a viable solution. This is simply nothing more than a knee-jerk solution that punishes the responsible gun owners and will make it easier for criminals to get guns. Instead, a universal background check policy across the board along with having mandatory firearms training (in both firing and taking care of a weapon) is a better solution that most sane people can get behind.

Second, the Muslim community and the imams must stop the cycle of hate and disillusionment within their own ranks, and realize that lashing out against America or Americans for having a different lifestyle than them will not only alienate themselves further, but will also allow ISIS/Daesh/Al-Qaeda to get their hooks even deeper. They should take a lesson from the late Muhammad Ali, and fight against injustice and extremism at the source while creating goodwill within our communities with actions.

Finally, mental health services must be supported and kept funded. While mental health isn't a big factor in this shooting, there has been plenty of mass murders that the shooter had something wrong with them on a psychological level. I can't really get into any specific details as I'm not a medical or psychological expert, but there needs to be at least some serious groundwork that needs to be made on a nationwide level.

[FinaLee]

At 6/13/16 07:15 PM, orangebomb wrote: this isn't an act of Islamic terror, (at least supported by ISIS/Al-Qaeda, though they aren't condoning it either)

I don't understand this. While there is so far no evidence that ISIL actually trained the shooter in attacking Pulse, they have most definitely condoned his actions.

Finally, mental health services must be supported and kept funded.

Consider reading my latest newspost regarding this.

[Camarohusky]

At 6/13/16 09:08 PM, FinaLee wrote: I don't understand this. While there is so far no evidence that ISIL actually trained the shooter in attacking Pulse, they have most definitely condoned his actions.

Any idiot can claim to be part of a terrorist group. ISIS, on top of that, is eager to take credit for any terrorist attack, as it garners them attention, and provides a great reruiting tool. A great recruiting tool in making ISIS look effective. On top of that, it foments a general hatred of Islam amongst the weak and ignorant masses. This hatred of Islam drives many young lost Muslim young men toward groups like ISIS that promise to give them love and purpose.

Hammer is right. This was a large scale hate crime (a crime of which I consider terrorism itself) not a general terrorist attack. His ties to ISIS seem to be largely tangental and partially after the fact. The choice of location and his action prior to the attack indicate it was motivated by a hatred of gays, not a wish to promote ISIS or intimidate America as a populace or political body.

[MasterStalker]

At 6/13/16 07:15 PM, orangebomb wrote: First off, banning guns outright (or even banning one type of gun) is not a viable solution. This is simply nothing more than a knee-jerk solution that punishes the responsible gun owners and will make it easier for criminals to get guns. Instead, a universal background check policy across the board along with having mandatory firearms training (in both firing and taking care of a weapon) is a better solution that most sane people can get behind.

Off topic, but I agree to an extent. No one needs full auto anything. If you MUST have something that fires like that, I'd rather vets returning home keep theirs from overseas with the exception of strong PTSD sufferers. But yeah at least proper training would eliminate a lot of fatalities due to stupidity. And across the board background check you'd think we'd have by now.

I think I read that this guy had semi-auto though so I cant gripe about the level of firepower he used, but I do wish we had magazines limited to like 15 for civilian use. If you cant hit what you're shooting at in 15 rounds, I refer you back to that training we both mentioned.

Second, the Muslim community and the imams must stop the cycle of hate and disillusionment within their own ranks, and realize that lashing out against America or Americans for having a different lifestyle than them will not only alienate themselves further, but will also allow ISIS/Daesh/Al-Qaeda to get their hooks even deeper. They should take a lesson from the late Muhammad Ali, and fight against injustice and extremism at the source while creating goodwill within our communities with actions.

I thing everyone needs to take a step back and breath a little. Any more, it seem like everyone is ready to attack someone. Everyone is perceiving so many threats and agendas out there that they actually manifest, like a self fulfilling prophecy. From Israel VS Palestine, to ISIS VS Western civilization, Xbox VS Playstation, to Democrat VS Republican, Fundamentalists (of all religions) VS nonbelievers, Straight VS LGBT, to good ol' fashioned black VS white. There's just too many conflict fires and inevitably there's one side that just HAS to escalate it.

Sad to say that at least from my perspective, we'll have to start small in local communities and trickle it upward all the while hoping we dont backslide before it gets to the big leagues. Very slow and grueling, and especially hard when everyone is addicted to being outraged.

Finally, mental health services must be supported and kept funded. While mental health isn't a big factor in this shooting, there has been plenty of mass murders that the shooter had something wrong with them on a psychological level. I can't really get into any specific details as I'm not a medical or psychological expert, but there needs to be at least some serious groundwork that needs to be made on a nationwide level.

This would be toughest to implement due to other existing laws, mostly HIPAA though. I'd like to see this but I doubt we'll get it. Like you said, best we can do is maintain good funding to care for these people and try preventing it that way.

[Markface]

The Orlando shooting wasn't even a top news story here.

That's how frequently you guys enjoy a shooting.

[coaliscool42]

All my predictions were correct!

At 6/12/16 01:44 PM, coaliscool42 wrote: A few reactions I expect from the Orlando shooting:

- Nightclubs/bars across the US will ramp up "security" (theater, that is)

http://www.wsj.com/articles/after-orlando-shooting-gay-venues-reevaluate-security-1465775984

- Obama makes a speech about the shooting

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:President_Obama_Speaks_on_Tragic_Shooting_in_Orlando.webm

- News agencies get mad at the FBI for not doing their job

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-fbi-investigation-orlando-20160612-snap-story.html

- Liberals will conveniently forget the suspect was an American citizen

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/terrorist-attacks-expose-liberal-craziness.php

- Topical gun control discussions

https://www.google.com/search?q="gun+control"+"orlando"

[morefngdbs]

Up here, the weather, falling weekly price of gasoline & local music scene were all ahead of a shooting in the USA.

For one simple reason, you are always shooting each other down there.
You want the front page up here in the boonies, either get nuked, or have another bunch of buildings getting hit by airplanes.
But shooting each other . Its happening right this very second...oh & this one 2 ....oh there goes another shooting in America.
That ain't news around here....thats every day there, same ole same ole, nonstop & expected in the country of the crazy gun nuts.

You know how You guys could make every front page news service on the Planet ...a headline like "AMERICA DIDN"T HAVE 1 GUN FATALITY THIS WEEK " that would do it, & it would shock the shit out of the vast majority of the planet s population
bam bam ...oh , 2 more shootings !

[rufusjordan]

The FBI caused the Orlando attacks
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/346950-orlando-us-fbi-policy/