Let me know if you need help with communication - I'm fluent in French and English, formal and informal (I'm a French teacher who also lived in the country for many years).

Having said that, I'm sure someone at TF1 speaks English.

But on another sidenote... Please do not take this the wrong way....
Your Song "Glorious Morning" is licensed with two different licenses. There is the album version which is sold on various platforms for personal use. And there is the CC version here on Newgrounds. These two versions are not truely distinct (although the primer has higher sound quality and maybe for the trained ear some slight adjustments). This is not a good situation to start with and might be one of many hurdles you will face when fighting them, because, even just the slightest mention of your name or your alias may be sufficient to use your work without penalty. At least that's what they will tell you and that's what they will try to make you yourself believe. But my point is: Two licenses for the (almost) same song is a bad thing. There is the other side as well: You know, I used your CC song in one of my videos (I emailed you), Some months ago, your online agent claimed my video because the automatic system detected this song to be the same one which ist sold on various platforms. That is not good too. But as it is you, I don't mind, even if your agent tries to monetize my video (they will likely not get rich by doing that). I just want to tell you, there is something not right to the whole licensing system and DRM alltogether. Be prepared.

I continue to listen to your songs daily. Still a fan, still behind what you are doing. Since years and ongoing.

Thank you for the support! No hard feelings :)
The claim system I use on youtube through my publisher does not take any cuts, it all goes to me. I have to have it there. I really wish there was another way, but I can't monitor everything. If you search for my artist name on youtube, you will find thousands of direct re-uploads, unauthorized commercial use, and so forth. No credits, lots off adds. There is no possible way to keep track of this for one guy, not a chance.

So I send people this desperate temporary explanation of how this actually works: http://www.waterflamemusic.com/using-my-tracks

Youtube does not care about its creators, and the systems built to protect content
creators are actually working against us. So this is the only option
If I actually want to let people use my music, and still make a living. And I do!

I want everyone to be able to use my music freely, in any project. As long as they don't make money off my work, and I am credited. That is all I ask. It has always been like that since I started. As cheesy as it may sound,
I grew up on the NG principle of sharimg matereal and equal revenue and credits. And I believe in that. It is fair.

I really want to keep making songs for people to use freely in non-commercial projects. But lately I'm starting to second guess it. It is giving me so many situations and problems every day.
Its almost my full time job now to explain to kids how my property is still mine, Its absurd.

And I agree, two licenses of the almost same song is a bad thing, but in none of the licenses does it say that what this channel did was OK. But the same rules still apply to both versions. Thing is, to make a song available in online stores, it has to be published.

Realistically, I will not be taking this to any court, I know that will break me, its not worth it at all. I dont even have time to see my family, So years of cross-country legal fees and court sessions is not worth any ammount of compensation. But I DO want this to get seen, and known. And maybe inspire some change, or at least, awareness.
And I will register with "tono" soon, they might be of some help.

At 3/16/16 04:33 AM, etherealwinds wrote: Hello!
I explained the situation to my friend at the voice France and the email she said would be best to contact is Pascal.Guix@shinefrance.com - maybe try this contact.

Let me know how things go and I wish you the best of luck!

Thank you so much! Thats amazing! :D
I will try to send a mail today. I have not even gotten as much as an automated response from any other source so,
its worth a shot.

Update: Thank you all for helping me with the situation surrounding "the voice" using my music. I have done a lot of legal reading and research, I also talked to "TONO. And apparently, they CAN legally get away with this. I am registering with TONO now, the Norwegian version of SACEM.

They might be able to retroactively do something about this. But as far as I am concerned, according to the laws being different for TV broadcast, they do not legally have to credit me.
So to everyone making music out there, register right now with your local "musicians guild".

To me this is still completely absurd, but It does not look like I will have much say in the matter. I might be entitled to a cut retroactively, But I will never see a mention or credits, and I will never be asked for usage in the future, in similar cases.

Long story short: TV channels can do whatever they want with your stuff, and it is your responsibility to protect it.
Great, huh?..

This does not really change much however, it is still important that as many people as possible know about this!
I have been doing this for so long, and I was still unaware of the fact.
Maybe your song is out there right now on a gameshow, and if you don't register your songs, they will just take your
Property and entitled cut, and use it for whatever they see fit.
I don't want to take this any further, as TONO will do the talking for me from now on, it seems. (as soon as I am registered, that could take up to two weeks)

But I will say this; It is so great to see you guys on NG come together every time something is wrong, or someone is treated badly in the art-world. It makes me really happy, and it was all worth it for that alone.
So thanks guys, really. <3 You are beautiful people.

At 3/17/16 08:53 AM, Waterflame wrote: Update

I think lack of credit is expected, usage without rights within the commercial environment however is another case. People also think that 'fair usage' allows you to get away with music less than 30 seconds, that's simply not true.

What I will say though is that you put a spin on this if you aren't going to chase it. And now credit yourself commercially as having your music used in "The Voice."

And then some people wonder why they don't receive a warm welcome when they ask artists to work for free and exposure...
LololoL

Yeah you should mark your track as Featured on TV! ^^

At 3/17/16 09:33 AM, PeterSatera wrote:

At 3/17/16 08:53 AM, Waterflame wrote: Update

I think lack of credit is expected, usage without rights within the commercial environment however is another case. People also think that 'fair usage' allows you to get away with music less than 30 seconds, that's simply not true.

What I will say though is that you put a spin on this if you aren't going to chase it. And now credit yourself commercially as having your music used in "The Voice."

Indeed. However,
It is not my intention to gain anything from this. I will keep being opposed to this law, and I find no pride or reason to credit myself for something so backwards.
But I am also just one guy in a rental flat with no lawyer or experience. Going the private-lawyer way will end me. I hate the way they do this. That is why I am still indie, and reject record lable offers.

what TONO does is just registering all my songs legally in a world-wide register, so If I have been wronged, as I feel I
have been, I will continue the case through them. they will legally speak for me, much like a union in a standard workplace.
But I dont think I can expect anything else but some revenue compensation. And since I am registering the track AFTER the fact, I just migth be screwed here. In a perfect world, they would ask before using, and credit me for source.
That is what I really want.

All I felt I could do was to spread the word, alert people so they wont get the shock I did.
We did however start some comotion! :D A victory in itself.

A big online newspaper in france apperantly wrote about it:

http://tvmag.lefigaro.fr/le-scan-tele/polemiques/2016/03/15/28003-20160315ARTFIG00225--the-voice-un-artiste-norvegien-en-colere-contre-shine-france.php

In the meantime, you could always register your music/albums with CDBaby and get your songs licensed there for youtube purposes so you can get the money even if people don't credit you on youtube. This really sucks they shouldnt get away with that...blah. Hurts to see people with no respect for musicians. You deserve better. Oh well I guess, we tried. Though there's still publicity xD

Thanks! :) I am registered with tunecore, they monitor youtube for me :) Its much like CDbaby. Without it, I would have given up by now after GeometryDash came and harvested everything I own.

At 3/17/16 10:25 AM, Waterflame wrote:

At 3/17/16 09:33 AM, PeterSatera wrote:

At 3/17/16 08:53 AM, Waterflame wrote: Update

I think lack of credit is expected, usage without rights within the commercial environment however is another case. People also think that 'fair usage' allows you to get away with music less than 30 seconds, that's simply not true.

What I will say though is that you put a spin on this if you aren't going to chase it. And now credit yourself commercially as having your music used in "The Voice."

Indeed. However,
It is not my intention to gain anything from this. I will keep being opposed to this law, and I find no pride or reason to credit myself for something so backwards.
But I am also just one guy in a rental flat with no lawyer or experience. Going the private-lawyer way will end me. I hate the way they do this. That is why I am still indie, and reject record lable offers.

what TONO does is just registering all my songs legally in a world-wide register, so If I have been wronged, as I feel I
have been, I will continue the case through them. they will legally speak for me, much like a union in a standard workplace.
But I dont think I can expect anything else but some revenue compensation. And since I am registering the track AFTER the fact, I just migth be screwed here. In a perfect world, they would ask before using, and credit me for source.
That is what I really want.

All I felt I could do was to spread the word, alert people so they wont get the shock I did.
We did however start some comotion! :D A victory in itself.

A big online newspaper in france apperantly wrote about it:
Apperantly headlining it as me raging against france. haha. as if I attacked the country itself.

http://tvmag.lefigaro.fr/le-scan-tele/polemiques/2016/03/15/28003-20160315ARTFIG00225--the-voice-un-artiste-norvegien-en-colere-contre-shine-france.php

For one: I am glad Le Figaro has covered you. This should really snowball things BIG TIME.

Secondly, with regards to performing rights societies: I think, if it functions like how it does on this end, then you should be able to get your royalties retroactively. You have the proof that the song's been played on TF1; you can match that section of a song with what has been played there. You also have the original project file with the original metadata and timestamp.

I wouldn't worry too much about royalties, because normally a PRS would be able to do something about it. What I AM worried about, however, is that Shine France's response creates a very disturbing precedent. The vast majority of music is streamed online now. Copyright law is not catching up, and still functions on the assumption that the media it covers is physical. It isn't. And because it's now going to be a global affair, when people take other people's music without permission (i.e. plagiarism), there needs to be a unified body of intellectual property law.

Let's continue making this big, and see where it takes us. While we're at it, I think we should constantly bring people's attention to the crux of the matter -- that you were not credited, and your work was outright stolen.

Let's continue making this big, and see where it takes us. While we're at it, I think we should constantly bring people's attention to the crux of the matter -- that you were not credited, and your work was outright stolen.

Absolutely. Well said.
It is the reason I decided to speak up in the first place. Copyright law on internet moves faster than traditional media, and it has become a real problem. This will keep happening.

Im not much of a public speaker, but I will keep the momentum going. (as much as time allow, I am swamped in deadlines)

This is big news; and totally inexcusable
I hope that everything swings in your favor soon!!

We've all got your back @waterflame !!!!

*thumbs up*

Well This is Serious Crap! The French Dont give a rats ass About Anything they take! And i hate those kinds of people...But A French channel doing That? They Crossed the line! I am supporting you @waterflame! Im spreading the word as much as i can!

At 3/19/16 04:59 AM, demon1000 wrote: Well This is Serious Crap! The French Dont give a rats ass About Anything they take! And i hate those kinds of people...But A French channel doing That? They Crossed the line! I am supporting you @waterflame! Im spreading the word as much as i can!

TheFrench (tm) took your mom's virginity, left, and didn't pay for your abortion. It was a mistake, sorry about that.

At 3/23/16 10:23 PM, Tacticat wrote:

At 3/19/16 04:59 AM, demon1000 wrote: Well This is Serious Crap! The French Dont give a rats ass About Anything they take! And i hate those kinds of people...But A French channel doing That? They Crossed the line! I am supporting you @waterflame! Im spreading the word as much as i can!

Calm your tits. Let's not lumping a whole group of people together because of some prick's action.

Who would hate French fries?

It's like that video I previously linked in this thread said. The French people know better than to steal people's work. Those who do so anyway only don't see anything wrong with it because of the way its IP laws are written. The real problem is the system.

Who would hate French fries?

It's like that video I previously linked in this thread said. The French people know better than to steal people's work. Those who do so anyway only don't see anything wrong with it because of the way its IP laws are written. The real problem is the system.

It has nothing to do with nationality to begin with. I just wrote "the voice France" cause well, it is the French version.
The problem is indeed the system. And how the laws are outdated. But equally, how this company running this division chooses to exploit that for all it is worth.

Update on the situation:
The media buzz died down, but I have registered with TONO, (the "music union") and signed a contract with them. I will probably have access to the system on monday, where I will register.. Sigh, all of my around 300 releases, again, with detailed information etc.
After that I will be able to talk to a representative who can hopefully take this case to them.
I will let you guys know how it turns out.

However, no matter the outcome in this one instance, it does not fix the problem long term. The laws being as exploitable as they are. So at this point I dont think there is any reason to keep fishing for a response. Although its a uncompassionate dick move of them to do business like this, they have no reason to change. The laws are what need changing. :/

Shared on a french videomakers board i'm onto :

http://www.entraide-youtubers.com/t13325-la-television-francaise-a-vole-l-argent-de-mon-gouter#238654

hope it'll help us all.
bests