Animators Survival kit: 2 questions

[doinurmop1234]

I'm on page 84 of "the animators survival kit" and It honestly feels like I haven't really learnt much.
Maybe it's true, or maybe I haven't picked up on much
by memory, at page 84, I feel like I've learnt about "Squash and stretch
Spacing
easing in and out
Bounce
Extremes/In betweens/keys" So far, not much.
I was just wondering if this is normal to feel like I haven't much, and also, if the book will really cover alot if not all, that I need to know.

And once I'm done with it, what do I read next?
A bit of a lengthy question, but yeah.

[Black-Crystal]

But..did you practice doing them? or you just read?

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/4/16 08:56 AM, Black-Crystal wrote: But..did you practice doing them? or you just read?

Both.
For some I assumed that didn't need the practise (or that I knew already) I just read.
For the ones that did need practise, I practised
Example: Squash and stretch, spacing, easing in and out etc.

[CosmicRage]

Those are the principles of animation, so if you feel like you aren't learning then something isn't "clicking" if you can elaborate on each of them more I'd love to help you out. These are the kinds of things that once they click, you will look at animation in a different light.

For instance in a ball bounce exercise, the amount of squash and stretch you use will determine the material of the ball. If you have a perfect circle bouncing, then its a very hard material, like a pool ball. If it has a lot of squash and stretch, then it could be a yoga ball or another kind of squishy material.

The timing and spacing in this exercise will give your ball weight. If you have a lot of time, the ball will feel lighter, less time, the ball will be heavier. Your spacing will effect this as well. If you have more frames at the peak of the bounces, the ball will also appear lighter. A bowling ball doesn't hang in the air if it bounces. This basic principle applies to everything in animation, it is truly the foundation of making things look good and appealing.

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/4/16 10:40 AM, CosmicRage wrote: Those are the principles of animation, so if you feel like you aren't learning then something isn't "clicking" if you can elaborate on each of them more I'd love to help you out. These are the kinds of things that once they click, you will look at animation in a different light.

For instance in a ball bounce exercise, the amount of squash and stretch you use will determine the material of the ball. If you have a perfect circle bouncing, then its a very hard material, like a pool ball. If it has a lot of squash and stretch, then it could be a yoga ball or another kind of squishy material.

The timing and spacing in this exercise will give your ball weight. If you have a lot of time, the ball will feel lighter, less time, the ball will be heavier. Your spacing will effect this as well. If you have more frames at the peak of the bounces, the ball will also appear lighter. A bowling ball doesn't hang in the air if it bounces. This basic principle applies to everything in animation, it is truly the foundation of making things look good and appealing.

I do understand, the material, the weight, and things like that, though of course I'm still not very good at them, but I dunno it just feels like I should be learning more, I just feel like I haven't learnt much at all.
I mean as for anything I'm still a bit confused about
is the way he refers to Keys/Extremes/in betweens, if I'm correct, keys are the mandatory frames needed, to where the animation need to lands, start point, mid point, end pont.
extremes being the second most important, like contact of the feet
and in between being everything in between.
easing in and out is still hard for me.
but I still feel like I haven't learnt much at all, it makes me feel, there's less to animation than I first though.
ech I dunno

[kkots]

At 3/4/16 08:48 AM, doinurmop1234 wrote: I was just wondering if this is normal to feel like I haven't much, and also, if the book will really cover alot if not all, that I need to know.

This sounds as if you didn't get enough practice. The book tells you the basic theory which can be applied to anything, and it's up to you to find ways to apply it to your animations to make them better.
Practice is supposed to be the biggest part of learning, you can't ever learn everything just by reading books.

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/4/16 12:19 PM, kkots wrote: This sounds as if you didn't get enough practice. The book tells you the basic theory which can be applied to anything, and it's up to you to find ways to apply it to your animations to make them better.
Practice is supposed to be the biggest part of learning, you can't ever learn everything just by reading books.

I mean of course, I'll be doing squash and stretch, and spacing practise today.
Since well, that's all I've learnt I'm able to practise, since extremes, and bounce and such, is in the thing as squash and stretch.
Do you know anything I could do, or any practises to do, to stop feeling I haven't learnt that much? Just wondering, since well, I don't wanna go through hte book., feeling It's not really teaching me much

[dylan]

what you're finding out is that, all things considered, there just isn't all that much to animation, at least not at its core. that book is meant to cover the basics, and then you use those basics as a set of principles to build your work upon.

draw a picture, draw another, draw what happens between.

[Celshaded]

The majority of your learning is going to be in the doing. That book is a great resource to have when you get stuck on how to do a proper flag wave or something like that, but aside from that, that book is a spring board for you taking the tips and tricks it shows you and adapting them to your own flavor and style of animation. There's a lot of information to be absorbed but for the most part, animation is a self taught process. Through trail and error and repetition, you'll discover new and different ways to do the things Richard Williams shows you how to do in context to your own projects.

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/4/16 01:31 PM, dylan wrote: what you're finding out is that, all things considered, there just isn't all that much to animation, at least not at its core. that book is meant to cover the basics, and then you use those basics as a set of principles to build your work upon.

draw a picture, draw another, draw what happens between.

Now that I think about it, I guess that really is true, and in a way, a better way for me to think about.
The real things you need to know about animation, is how to space your drawings out, and apply gravity to them, as well as anticipation.

and of course the 12 principles.
Thanks for breaking that to me, honestly, it helps.

[Sjiht]

Animation is all about practice and repeating, blindly following that book and copy pasting all excercises once wont gain you much. If you are looking for a list of excellent excercises read this list "51 great animation exercises" put together by @JKR

[Black-Crystal]

yeah i think right now the best move is to just create a animation movie! You can apply what you learned into that :)

[Xango36]

You should totally post your practice work here. That way we can actually get a sense for where you're at.

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/5/16 03:33 PM, Xango36 wrote: You should totally post your practice work here. That way we can actually get a sense for where you're at.

here's a rough Squash and stretch practise, I did last friday
http://imgur.com/dMNppIl

[ValterValyun]

At 3/5/16 10:07 PM, doinurmop1234 wrote:

At 3/5/16 03:33 PM, Xango36 wrote: You should totally post your practice work here. That way we can actually get a sense for where you're at.

here's a rough Squash and stretch practise, I did last friday
http://imgur.com/dMNppIl

Hard to tell at the moment, can you remove the Ease-in's / out's arc so we can get a clearer picture?

[Xango36]

At 3/5/16 10:07 PM, doinurmop1234 wrote:

At 3/5/16 03:33 PM, Xango36 wrote: You should totally post your practice work here. That way we can actually get a sense for where you're at.

here's a rough Squash and stretch practise, I did last friday
http://imgur.com/dMNppIl

Not bad. You're definitely getting the idea behind timing. I'd say to add a little more frames to the end of each bounce. Hold it there a little longer. Also, make sure you pay attention to your arcs and how they decrease. Here you have the object dramatically slow down on the third arc even though the previous 2 arcs have the ball bouncing high. Really focus on grasping this concept. Try animating different ball types( basketball, bowling ball, etc..), because they all have specific physical properties, you'll be forced to rely on your understanding of the fundamentals. Once you can master this, you'll essentially be able to tackle character work, fx and all the other fun stuff.

Overall, its looking good. Keep going!

[Black-Crystal]

At 3/5/16 10:07 PM, doinurmop1234 wrote:

At 3/5/16 03:33 PM, Xango36 wrote: You should totally post your practice work here. That way we can actually get a sense for where you're at.

here's a rough Squash and stretch practise, I did last friday
http://imgur.com/dMNppIl

I think the energy for the first bounce is too strong. Based on the first bounce, the ball should bounce higher.

And the arcs are inconsistent..the third arc is too small/flat compared to the second one.

Arcs reference

Keep it up :)

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/5/16 10:08 PM, VLanimate wrote: Hard to tell at the moment, can you remove the Ease-in's / out's arc so we can get a clearer picture?

Here http://imgur.com/sasUO39

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/6/16 04:04 AM, Black-Crystal wrote: I think the energy for the first bounce is too strong. Based on the first bounce, the ball should bounce higher.

And the arcs are inconsistent..the third arc is too small/flat compared to the second one.

Arcs reference

Keep it up :)

Cheers, and thanks for the arc references :^)

[doinurmop1234]

At 3/6/16 12:04 AM, Xango36 wrote: You're definitely getting the idea behind timing. I'd say to add a little more frames to the end of each bounce. Hold it there a little longer. make sure you pay attention to your arcs and how they decrease.

Cheers, I'll look into that, and practise different ball types

[Fim]

I found a lot of the stuff in ASK a bit irrelevant, and some of it was downright false. For example never listening to music while you animate, for me that's a matter of personal preference, and if you find that listening to good music or a podcast means that you can work away at your animation for an extra 2-3 hours as opposed to listening to nothing then surely that's a positive.

Anyway, I thought you might find this little video of the distillation of the 12 principles helpful OP. Sometimes seeing an idea represented visually helps make it 'click' better than just reading it.

Good luck wit all ur animation dreemz xx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5OB12u8Pw

[PsychoBandit]

that's because you aren't really learning it until you apply it

[PsychoBandit]

At 3/30/16 03:27 AM, Fim wrote: I found a lot of the stuff in ASK a bit irrelevant, and some of it was downright false. For example never listening to music while you animate, for me that's a matter of personal preference, and if you find that listening to good music or a podcast means that you can work away at your animation for an extra 2-3 hours as opposed to listening to nothing then surely that's a positive.

When it comes to working in silence
well, that's not "downright false" that's a matter of how trained or experienced you are, if you are an animating machine then having JUST the work in front of you is perfect, but since none of us never animated an entire movie (Like Richard Williams did) that won't work for us at all

[Kalixo]

At 3/4/16 08:48 AM, doinurmop1234 wrote: I'm on page 84 of "the animators survival kit" and It honestly feels like I haven't really learnt much.
Maybe it's true, or maybe I haven't picked up on much
by memory, at page 84, I feel like I've learnt about "Squash and stretch
Spacing
easing in and out
Bounce
Extremes/In betweens/keys" So far, not much.
I was just wondering if this is normal to feel like I haven't much, and also, if the book will really cover alot if not all, that I need to know.

And once I'm done with it, what do I read next?
A bit of a lengthy question, but yeah.

The animators survival kit is just a book, it will not just magically make you better at animation all at once. Animation itself takes a very long time to master. The book however is very useful if used in a appropriate manner, it explains the principles of animation, and if you practice everything often (I mean EVERYTHING) you are bound to get better. Utilize the book to the best of your abilities and don't forget it's the time that counts.

[Kitsyfluff]

At 3/4/16 11:06 AM, doinurmop1234 wrote:

At 3/4/16 10:40 AM, CosmicRage wrote: Those are the principles of animation, so if you feel like you aren't learning then something isn't "clicking" if you can elaborate on each of them more I'd love to help you out. These are the kinds of things that once they click, you will look at animation in a different light.

For instance in a ball bounce exercise, the amount of squash and stretch you use will determine the material of the ball. If you have a perfect circle bouncing, then its a very hard material, like a pool ball. If it has a lot of squash and stretch, then it could be a yoga ball or another kind of squishy material.

The timing and spacing in this exercise will give your ball weight. If you have a lot of time, the ball will feel lighter, less time, the ball will be heavier. Your spacing will effect this as well. If you have more frames at the peak of the bounces, the ball will also appear lighter. A bowling ball doesn't hang in the air if it bounces. This basic principle applies to everything in animation, it is truly the foundation of making things look good and appealing.

I do understand, the material, the weight, and things like that, though of course I'm still not very good at them, but I dunno it just feels like I should be learning more, I just feel like I haven't learnt much at all.
I mean as for anything I'm still a bit confused about
is the way he refers to Keys/Extremes/in betweens, if I'm correct, keys are the mandatory frames needed, to where the animation need to lands, start point, mid point, end pont.
extremes being the second most important, like contact of the feet
and in between being everything in between.
easing in and out is still hard for me.
but I still feel like I haven't learnt much at all, it makes me feel, there's less to animation than I first though.
ech I dunno

Animation is a skill, it isn't just technical knowledge. You need to practice all the time to get good at animation

It's like how Sycra puts it, "you can't go to the gym one day, lift a few weights and say 'I get it now' and never return." You have to put in a ton of practice, not just to know it, but to know it so well that it becomes natural to the point that you don't even think about it. and the thing is, you have to never stop practicing.

[JimiRigger]

At 3/4/16 08:48 AM, doinurmop1234 wrote: I'm on page 84 of "the animators survival kit" and It honestly feels like I haven't really learnt much.
Maybe it's true, or maybe I haven't picked up on much
by memory, at page 84, I feel like I've learnt about "Squash and stretch
Spacing
easing in and out
Bounce
Extremes/In betweens/keys" So far, not much.
I was just wondering if this is normal to feel like I haven't much, and also, if the book will really cover alot if not all, that I need to know.

And once I'm done with it, what do I read next?
A bit of a lengthy question, but yeah.

The thing with the Animator' Survival Kit is this. It doesn't really say, but you really have to try the different ideas in your own animation to really get anything from it. It's not just a good read, but a technique, and learn from experience type of thing. It's hard to follow along with some of his descriptions, but worth it.

[AcidX]

That's kind of the point.
It's an essentials kit. Think of it as the most basic of reference material. Basic but highly important.
You won't ever feel like you learn a lot from reading this material, as it's all obvious and basic rules — not only to animation but real life. Stuff you've observed a thousand times; physics. But you do learn a lot.
By reading over these fundamental rules and understanding them... Through practice and development of these skills.. They will be automatically applied into all your work, all of the time.

So it may feel drawn out, slow and as though you're not learning. Yet, you're learning it, absorbing it and completely changing your approach to all future work. It will all become more obvious once you start seeing the value of timing and balancing weight around in scenes. Playing with and bending these rules, rather than viewing them as concepts. Rather than just familiarising with them or repeating them.

Afterward, you may want to read Disney's "The Illusion of Life". Pretty good book that kind of goes hand-in-hand; deals more with expressions and characteristics. Gives you the depth to your characters, to mix with the skills you'll be applying from survival kit. Other than that; watch animated films and see how these rules are applied in those. Study them and see what direct examples you can find.

[EKublai]

At 3/6/16 07:18 PM, doinurmop1234 wrote:

At 3/5/16 10:08 PM, VLanimate wrote: Hard to tell at the moment, can you remove the Ease-in's / out's arc so we can get a clearer picture?

Here http://imgur.com/sasUO39

This looks like a sudden wind started blowing against it on the second bounce. It should have a touch more horizontal movement and the second bounce sort of slithers off screen, but you're getting it.

[EKublai]

At 3/6/16 07:18 PM, doinurmop1234 wrote:

At 3/5/16 10:08 PM, VLanimate wrote: Hard to tell at the moment, can you remove the Ease-in's / out's arc so we can get a clearer picture?

Here http://imgur.com/sasUO39

This looks like a sudden wind started blowing against it on the second bounce. It should have a touch more horizontal movement and the second bounce sort of slithers off screen, but you're getting it.