My team is currently developing an innovative, vast and immersive fantasy scifi MMORPG which will be free to play but will involve in game microtransactions. It is currently in alpha stage. We cannot pay for the music because we have already invested a great deal on the art, programming, game design and other expenses. We require approximately 20 looped background music, each less than 3 minutes in length. The composer must also agree to give away all rights to whatever they compose. In return they will be credited in the game which may be of great value and exposure to them in the situation our game becomes popular. Further information cannot be disclosed unless a NDA is signed (which will only be sent to shortlisted candidates).
Please send us samples of your work via this form and how we can contact you. Deadline is 13 April 2015
http://goo.gl/forms/8EbXQRyLse
So you don't want to pay the composer, and you want said composer to sign away "all rights to whatever they compose?" And in return, the composer will be "credited in the game" which might not even get anywhere? AND if said game does become popular, the musician will receive...exposure?
This looks like a really bad deal to me. There aren't even any promises that the composer will be credited if all of their rights to the loops are signed away with no payment whatsoever. If I were you, ladies and gents, I would not take up this offer.
I highly doubt you'll get 20 tracks done for you for free by april 13th.
Especially for a F2P mmo with micro-transactions
I'm calling it. This is a fake.
Rocker, Composer and World Ambassador for Foxes! Veteran REAPER user. Ready to rock! :)
This sounds like a joke satirizing all the demeaning requests musicians get around here.
Sadly I have a feeling you are being completely serious.
You do realize how insulting it is to essentially say
> I need a few thousand dollars worth of music for free
> The reason I can't pay you is that I already paid for every other bit of work that went into this project
> I want you to completely unnecessarily give up all the rights to the few thousand dollars worth of music you just made for me for free
> In return we allow you to tell other people that you made this music and add you to a credits screen.
AhahahaaaaaaaI need an Advil.
Do you provide the lube, or does the composer have to provide their own?
At 3/30/15 05:07 PM, Hurks wrote: I highly doubt you'll get 20 tracks done for you for free by april 13th.
Especially for a F2P mmo with micro-transactions
pretty sure deadline is to apply
but anyways to the OP (little rant sorry):
Offering only exposure to an artist in this day and age is frankly offensive, like their work is not worth paying for. I see this time and time again, where the studio pay all other people on the team BUT the composer and its like you think less of artists - but infact they are as much part of the team as everyone else!
Of couse, exposure is a very good thing - and especially lots of artists could really do with that here. But people would need to see more of the project to know its actually going to be worth the work.
Sorry about this don't intend any offence just I was roped into something like this a few years back for an mmo - I put in hours of work and the project went nowhere, essentially wasting all that time and music. I was young at the time and desperate for the exposure. I've no interest in this but I just don't want people to make the same mistake i did :P Thankfully i hadn't signed the rights away but you're asking for full rights aswell!
if you wanna keep it hush thats fine but I recommend disclosing information to the artists who are interested
to everyone interested: just be careful you aren't fucked over basically - make sure you know the project will go somewhere before you put the time in
to the dev: a sum, any sum of money to guarantee the artist is compensated is a very easy way to avoid skepticism like mine
anyway sorry about the rant just thought i'd share my thoughts
Yeah OP you're only chasing away the people who'd show more likelihood to give you an end-product you'd be excited to have, considering your expectations of 20 pieces. It's never too late to change your thoughts and I'm not gonna say it'll be a terrible game considering how early in production it's in, however it really comes off as
"Hey I'm making a game that could turn a profit for me(Micro-transactions). can I please have free music for this game and basically own the song without giving you proof that you'll gain anything out of this(We do not know if this game will get popular)?"
At 3/30/15 04:39 PM, exkrypt wrote: We cannot pay for the music because we have already invested a great deal on the art, programming, game design and other expenses.
Omg... What a silly reason. You Know that music makes about 30-40% of the experience? but its ok. Musicians are idiots.
We require approximately 20 looped background music, each less than 3 minutes in length.
Just about an hour of music? Sure you dont want more?
The composer must also agree to give away all rights to whatever they compose.
Really - this is one of the most asocial and ignorant requests i have ever seen here... Who ever will be that dumb to accept it will earn my personal "Most stupid person alive" award. You cant tell me you dont know by yourself how fuck this request actually is.
In return they will be credited in the game which may be of great value and exposure to them in the situation our game becomes popular.
Exposure? Credits? Worth nothing. Who ever does this just proves how dumb he is to let others exploit him that badly for just nothing !!! in return. A buy out in this size (Up to 60min of music) is worth thousands of Euro/Dollars. And you know that very well...
Further information cannot be disclosed unless a NDA is signed (which will only be sent to shortlisted candidates).
Please send us samples of your work via this form and how we can contact you. Deadline is 13 April 2015
Lol. You want people to work for free. So you have to convince them and not the other way round.... Disclosure? You should have disclosed your request...
Meanwhile i really think people like you who ask for such nonsense should be banned from this portal!
LOL. He wants an hour's worth of free music, and he wants full rights. I'm not even mad. This is hilarious.
Review Request Club | CHECK THIS OUT | Formerly Supersteph54 | I'm an Audio Moderator. PM me for Audio Portal help.
lel
We cannot pay for the music because we have already invested a great deal on the art, programming, game design and other expenses
Well that's too bad then
At 3/30/15 04:39 PM, exkrypt wrote: My team is currently developing an innovative, vast and immersive fantasy scifi MMORPG which will be free to play but will involve in game microtransactions. It is currently in alpha stage. We cannot pay for the music because we have already invested a great deal on the art, programming, game design and other expenses. We require approximately 20 looped background music, each less than 3 minutes in length. The composer must also agree to give away all rights to whatever they compose. In return they will be credited in the game which may be of great value and exposure to them in the situation our game becomes popular. Further information cannot be disclosed unless a NDA is signed (which will only be sent to shortlisted candidates).
Please send us samples of your work via this form and how we can contact you. Deadline is 13 April 2015
http://goo.gl/forms/8EbXQRyLse
So let me get this straight... you have come here asking musicians to provide music for your free to play game, asking them to provide their work for free, because you have failed to leave room in your budget for music and sfx? On top of that, you want them to sign away all their rights to that music and respect your NDA. FUCKING HILARIOUS!
You cannot actually be serious, it has to be an early April Fools joke or something because no one in this sort of business would be THAT disrespectful. No one with a serious concept for a video game would DARE to do what you have just done. Even if someone was willing to provide all that music for free to get some exposure in your game, who would want to work with someone who was incompetent enough not to budget correctly in the first place?
I recommend that someone takes this on, and provides the guy with nothing but their own farts and burps. I will even contribute my flatulence to the cause, but only if I get a 15% cut of all the profits you make, which will be zero, because as I said...it's most likely a joke. No one in their right mind could..... just go.
Get out
At 3/30/15 05:07 PM, Hurks wrote: I highly doubt you'll get 20 tracks done for you for free by april 13th.
Especially for a F2P mmo with micro-transactions
DEADLINE FOR APPLICATIONS IS APRIL 13th.
I should have clarified this but I cannot edit my post.
No way would we expect a full soundtrack to be done in less than 2 weeks!
hahah I'm tempted to spam their submission form with nothing but hardstyle kicks
At 3/30/15 06:15 PM, Step wrote: LOL. He wants an hour's worth of free music, and he wants full rights. I'm not even mad. This is hilarious.
The hostility here is astonishing.
No, its not 60 minutes of music. Read the post again. It's less than 3 mins. Maximum IS 3 mins. So even 20 mins is acceptable as long as songs are good and can loop.
At 3/30/15 07:06 PM, exkrypt wrote:At 3/30/15 06:15 PM, Step wrote: LOL. He wants an hour's worth of free music, and he wants full rights. I'm not even mad. This is hilarious.The hostility here is astonishing.
No, its not 60 minutes of music. Read the post again. It's less than 3 mins. Maximum IS 3 mins. So even 20 mins is acceptable as long as songs are good and can loop.
Why wasn't the programming, art design, level design et al. free? Why is it you can afford to pay for those but can't scrape together a few pennies for some music?
Your terms and conditions are ridiculous, you haven't shared any actual information on the game beyond lofty, vague aspirational prose and you aren't going to get any worthwhile artist agree to write music for you for the nebulous promise of "exposure".
Please hit me up if you want a review!
At 3/30/15 07:16 PM, MrBellington wrote:At 3/30/15 07:06 PM, exkrypt wrote:Why wasn't the programming, art design, level design et al. free? Why is it you can afford to pay for those but can't scrape together a few pennies for some music?At 3/30/15 06:15 PM, Step wrote: LOL. He wants an hour's worth of free music, and he wants full rights. I'm not even mad. This is hilarious.The hostility here is astonishing.
No, its not 60 minutes of music. Read the post again. It's less than 3 mins. Maximum IS 3 mins. So even 20 mins is acceptable as long as songs are good and can loop.
Your terms and conditions are ridiculous, you haven't shared any actual information on the game beyond lofty, vague aspirational prose and you aren't going to get any worthwhile artist agree to write music for you for the nebulous promise of "exposure".
When someone volunteers unpaid on a job (any job), the company keeps all records and work of the employee's contribution. I do not understand how or why this is so different for composers?
No, your lack of respect for the artists you're trying to exploit is astounding.
At 3/30/15 07:22 PM, ProudAardvark wrote: No, your lack of respect for the artists you're trying to exploit is astounding.
When some writes a book and in the acknowledgement section the author thanks several people who indirectly contributed to the book, you do realise they don't get paid do you? Nor do any of these indirect authors expect to receive royalties for their contribution.
So why is being credited not enough?
And how is this showing lack of respect?
Perhaps I may not know much about how music is dealt here.
At 3/30/15 07:28 PM, exkrypt wrote:At 3/30/15 07:22 PM, ProudAardvark wrote: No, your lack of respect for the artists you're trying to exploit is astounding.When some writes a book and in the acknowledgement section writes down several people who indirectly contributed to the book, you do realise they don't get paid do you? Nor do any of these indirect authors expect to receive royalties for their contribution.
So why is being credited not enough?
And how is this showing lack of respect?
Composing 20 minutes of music is not direct contribution?
Damn guys, what have we been doing all this time charging these poor game developers... us composers are terrible, TERRIBLE people!
At 3/30/15 07:28 PM, exkrypt wrote:At 3/30/15 07:22 PM, ProudAardvark wrote: No, your lack of respect for the artists you're trying to exploit is astounding.When some writes a book and in the acknowledgement section the author thanks several people who indirectly contributed to the book, you do realise they don't get paid do you? Nor do any of these indirect authors expect to receive royalties for their contribution.
So why is being credited not enough?
And how is this showing lack of respect?
Perhaps I may not know much about how music is dealt here.
Because this is DIRECT contribution. How do you NOT realize this?
I'm still unclear as to if you're joking or being honest here. The level of non-comprehension of our medium is simply astonishing.
At 3/30/15 07:20 PM, exkrypt wrote:At 3/30/15 07:16 PM, MrBellington wrote:When someone volunteers unpaid on a job (any job), the company keeps all records and work of the employee's contribution. I do not understand how or why this is so different for composers?At 3/30/15 07:06 PM, exkrypt wrote:Why wasn't the programming, art design, level design et al. free? Why is it you can afford to pay for those but can't scrape together a few pennies for some music?At 3/30/15 06:15 PM, Step wrote: LOL. He wants an hour's worth of free music, and he wants full rights. I'm not even mad. This is hilarious.The hostility here is astonishing.
No, its not 60 minutes of music. Read the post again. It's less than 3 mins. Maximum IS 3 mins. So even 20 mins is acceptable as long as songs are good and can loop.
Your terms and conditions are ridiculous, you haven't shared any actual information on the game beyond lofty, vague aspirational prose and you aren't going to get any worthwhile artist agree to write music for you for the nebulous promise of "exposure".
The problem is this: you're asking composers, presumably composers with actual skill and experience, to write you 20 minutes of music, to submit all rights to this music, and in return you have offered absolutely nothing. You have told us nothing about the game, but we're meant to see this as an opportunity for "exposure".
This is a free market, and you might find someone stupid enough to accept the offer. Fair enough if you do. But in a free market, we also have the right to refuse your crappy terms and conditions.
You evaded my question as to why there was no money left in the kitty for the music budget, but miraculously you found some for the programming, game design and art. Immediately this suggests you don't value the contribution of whomever you are requesting music. That or you can't manage a budget.
Please hit me up if you want a review!
Well, if you think so, make me a game. I'll give you credit.
why the fuck would someone want to sell all rights without getting paid
are you retarded or something
lel
hey OP
all of us made a demo for you for your game
we hope u like what u hear
go ahead take allrights for this
lel
At 3/30/15 07:06 PM, exkrypt wrote: The hostility here is astonishing.
No, its not 60 minutes of music. Read the post again. It's less than 3 mins. Maximum IS 3 mins. So even 20 mins is acceptable as long as songs are good and can loop.
I honestly thought you were trolling, and to a certain extent I still have my doubts that you're not just messing with us. If you really are serious, then this just makes the whole thing even more ridiculous.
1.) You're asking for all rights to music you're not even paying for. You know what all rights means? It means you can distribute the artist's music however you want. It means you can sell it and gain money out of it without needing to give the artist a cent. It means the music is essentially yours to do what you please with it. Full rights generally sell for thousands of dollars, as you can imagine.
2.) You're a nobody to us. Your Newgrounds profile is a blank-slate account that was created yesterday. Do you have a website? A portfolio? Social networking profiles? Previously published games? Anything to prove to us this isn't a scam? You don't need us to sign an NDA agreement just to assure us you're a legitimate developer.
3.) The fact that you seem to genuinely believe that musicians don't need pay too is just flabbergasting. You know how long it takes me to make one minute of music on average? 10 hours. That's right. 20 minutes of music could take me upwards of 200 hours. On American minimum wage that's about $1,500 worth of work. On a standard entry-level musician's rate, 20 minutes of music is worth double that amount. This is assuming I make each track one minute long, which is far too short for a supposedly "big" MMORPG.
4.) Oh, did I read right? Microtransactions? So you want a musician to work for hundreds of hours without getting any pay for something which you will be making money out of. I don't know how up-to-date you are with the news but in case you didn't know, slavery was abolished a number of decades ago.
I can go on all day listing why everyone's acting hostile towards you, but you get my point. Feel free to redo the thread offering a decent sum of money, and adding some more info about who you and your team are and what reputation you have in the games industry. Until then, I guarantee you that no self-respecting musician will be filling in that form of yours.
Review Request Club | CHECK THIS OUT | Formerly Supersteph54 | I'm an Audio Moderator. PM me for Audio Portal help.
This thread is funny. I can't wait to find out that their NDA tells you that the game developer is including a "Work for Hire" clause so they can claim authorship of the music, too.
