Nothing like a shake up.
Can a 0 vote still be made?

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark but i guess past votes and reviews don't count towards the new overhaul?
Also, heading to magfest as well; here's to less broken windows this year!

I don't feel like looking back through the whole thread to see if this has been asked, but will there finally be a way to sort reviews for content? I'd like to be able to sort reviews based on score, user opinions (helpful or not helpful), and length (to sort out the actual reviews from the one-sentence "I liked this" stuff).

Big Thumbs up.Especially that we can edit reviews

I wonder how these changes will affect the all-time best lineup.

http://www.newgrounds.com/movies/browse/min_score/0#sort:score

At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: Voting System Overhaul Proposal

Please respond with feedback!

Looks good to me. I'll have bittersweet (who am I kidding, more like bland) memories of 0-bombing something, but I'm honestly glad it's going away.

Is there a plan to do anything at level 60, regarding new levels, or capping it at whatever #1 is sitting at (old style)? Giving more xp on the weekends will just hasten people through the leveling process. Not that that means anything, anymore. There are so many level 60s.

I cannot wait! But I'm a bit sad to see "WOOT!!! All my 5 R belong to this!" disappear.

How are people going to get "Review Crew Pick" now? Surely that requires the votes and reviews to be counted as seperate?

At 1/15/15 11:08 AM, CypressDahlia wrote: You should just make "0" votes include a forced review.

Like think about what a "0" vote actually means. it literally means "this does not belong in the portal". For something to be rated that absolutely low you'd need a good, constructive reason, otherwise it's just shameless ego-bashing on artists. This would also discourage constant 0-bombing as the 0-bomber would both a.) have to write a review every time and b.) would have to make their identity known, so a person who only submits 0-votes can be easily dealt with by staff.

I like the idea of this, but I've got a feeling it won't work in practise. I think people would then resort to 1-bombing, and the blam/protect system in the movie/game portals is likely to suffer from users unwilling to leave an explanation about why something is garbage.

At 1/15/15 11:31 AM, CypressDahlia wrote: I just feel like if you're going to say someone's work is trash, you should be willing to explain it. 0-bombing something is a show of strong distaste or disdain for the person or their work. Metaphorical slap in the face. It should have an explanation behind it.

Yeah, and I can get behind that idea. I think that this would work in the art or audio portals, where the vote doesn't determine whether a submissions live or dies, and scouted stuff should be unlikely to get 0 votes.

I would prefer the system to stay the same. However, if it changes I will do my best to stay on top of the best B/Pers.

At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: ...
Voting System Overhaul Proposal

Please respond with feedback!

The new voting system will be universal for all Portals (games, movies, audio, art).
...
Let me know your thoughts on this plan!

Sounds great, no, excellent! The ability to edit a score/review would definitely be useful!

Will "old scores" be mixed with the new scores for the total average? Or how will it work?

The only thing I would suggest differently would be that the review and score are required together. This would eliminate 0-bombing, and force the user to actually have to say something with their score. If they say something very abusive, and/or 0-bomb anyway (for example, the review just says ".", or something equally unsubstantial, but the score says 0/5 or 5/5, etc.), then a moderator can be pointed in their direction and swiftly take action.

If nothing else, the ability to edit whenever you want would give much needed control to the users, take a good workload off of moderators (deletion requests) so that they have time to focus on other things, and I think that would definitely be a nice, welcome addition to the reviewing system. Especially with games that change frequently, and for reviewers that promise they will re-review the game later on if the creator makes updates.

If it causes issues with spam, then one could try adding an "edit history" to each review, so that if someone is clearly abusing the edit feature to troll/flame/etc, then action can also be taken for the abuse.

I dunno, what do you guys think of my suggestion(s)?

Go for it Tom! I'm totally fine with the new voting system

At 1/14/15 11:41 PM, KelpTheGreat wrote: I don't feel like looking back through the whole thread to see if this has been asked, but will there finally be a way to sort reviews for content? I'd like to be able to sort reviews based on score, user opinions (helpful or not helpful), and length (to sort out the actual reviews from the one-sentence "I liked this" stuff).

I like the sorting by length idea. I generally like people to at least give SOME useful advice, other than "It sucks"/"Your gay"/"<Quote from the movie here>"/"awesome lol".

The only question I have thus far is when is this thing going to be implemented.

Boooooooooooooooo

I'm glad you're doing this because it got annoying having to vote on 5 submissions just to earn XP. Thanks Tom.

Interesting changes.

I almost always vote and review on the audio and occasionally the image gallery sections. I to be honest have never really noticed the lack of levelling up due to not voting in other area of NG - but leveling isn't really what I'm here for; good tunes and great artwork.

As for the new ideas, they're great - but why give people the option of hiding their review vote score? Surely if someone is to write a review the vote in part go hand in hand, often I give a good vote (4 say) and then write the review as if explaining why I gave that figure, the plus and minus points - if others don't see that figure (as the choice implies) it seems a bit less, well, honest.

What are the reasons for offering to hide the review? - as surely this would be a temptation to write excellent reviews but to give crap votes (or vice versa?). If someone gives a music/image a 5/5 stars and a slaggy review then the fact both can be displayed can let readers judge the quality of the reviewer and therefore the worth of the review?

At 1/15/15 04:30 PM, Psychophobe wrote: What are the reasons for offering to hide the review? - as surely this would be a temptation to write excellent reviews but to give crap votes (or vice versa?). If someone gives a music/image a 5/5 stars and a slaggy review then the fact both can be displayed can let readers judge the quality of the reviewer and therefore the worth of the review?

Over the years I've talked to a lot of artists who just aren't into the idea of scoring art, so I know there's a decent-sized community of people out there who want to offer critiques / reviews but don't feel comfortable attaching a score to it. Hoping we can give them an option as well.

At 1/12/15 09:27 AM, TomFulp wrote: Quick news: @Troisnyx is organizing a Newgrounds 20th Anniversary Collab! Respond in that thread if you'd like to participate!

My MAGFest talk was moved to 12pm on Sunday, Jan 25th. Come and say hi! Current NG attendees.

Voting System Overhaul Proposal

Please respond with feedback!

The new voting system will be universal for all Portals (games, movies, audio, art).

You will gain 2 XP for each vote, with a max of 10 XP daily.

On weekends you will be able to log up to 20 XP daily.

XP is logged instantly, no more five vote minimum requirement.

All existing score data will be backed up but no longer used. Review scores will become the new existing score data.

Users can only vote once on each piece of content and can edit that vote whenever they want.

The score that shows in your review is the same score as your vote, there is just one location on the page to enter you score.

You can hide your score or submit a review without a score (many people are anti-scoring).

Combined voting and reviewing box, default appearance.

What you see after voting.

What you see when you click the review text field.

What you see after submitting your review.

Once you write a review, it always appears above the other reviews on the page, so you can see what you wrote and edit (or delete?) if desired.

Let me know your thoughts on this plan!

I Like Everything About this New Voting System, Except 2. I Liked that Pico was on the Side, and that his Face was your Rating (It Always Makes Me Laugh), and I don't Like the Fact you can Only Vote Once. Yes, It is Accurate the Way you Plan to Change it, but say someone Plays the Game Again, and Likes it Even More, Making it a Different Experience from the First (as if a Different Person was Reviewing it). It Also gives a Way to Balance out the Good with the Bad. If Someone Likes Playing a Game, they'll have a Chance to Maintain (or Raise) its Score. Although this can be Bad, as some People Negatively Review the Same Game Over and Over Again (just because they Hate it), and some People Review a Bad Game with a Good Score Repetitively (as they Made it on Another Account, or they just like the Artist that Made it (Even though it Sucks), and are False Advertising). So Overall, this is a Good System, but I can't say I don't Like the Current System (Despite the Fact I can't Always Rate 5 Every Day). But if you could somehow Integrate these Features into the New System, it would be just Fine and Dandy.

Do this

I approve of this.

I, animelover, long time member and lurker supreme of Newgrounds, hereby declares approval for the planned changes to the voting system.

Long Live Tom Fulp!!!

Oh... It's ugly, though. And, we'll lose seeing the NG moscots, and that makes me sad.

As long I can still ninja my way to the top exp, I approuve!

Read through 11 pages of comments, and these are my opinions of what I read.

I do like the idea of changing up the voting a little, and for the fact that it applies to all portals. Getting rid of having two different voting sections also seems like a good idea, and actually seeing a progress bar is a nice addition, but that could also just be something added to your profile page instead of taking up room in a voting area, even though it would be convenient to see it when voting.

The only major problem with the change would be the new scores for old submissions. I could see old submissions being grandfathered in and keeping their scores or something to compare the current score and what the new score would be, then doing something with that to determine the score. The idea you said of having the old score until the newer scores reach a determined threshold sounds like the best idea though.

In regards to the weekends allowing more xp, it could be cool. Your response saying that it would feel special with a limited window is kind of put down a little since it would be a constant thing happening each weekend. It would be better if there were specific times, like Pico day, or maybe when there's a contest happening when more voting is welcome. Also someone probably shouldn't get xp if they have adblock on when the page loads, It probably won't do too much, but if someone who has adblock enabled and is really into their newgrounds points, it would at least add five pages of ad revenue.

Another idea I read was having a max xp per portal per day, which could be nice and get people going to other parts of the site and seeing things that normally wouldn't see/hear.

Now the whole one vote per submission thing does make sense in a lot of ways, but it would be nice to still vote again at some points. Maybe instead of having only one vote, you can only vote for something again after a period of time like a month or something. Then again, you would get more accurate scores with one per account, so one per person would probably be best.

With editing your posts, it could work to have the 15 min edit window if you notice any mistakes in it, but after that not allow a change unless there is a new uploaded version. Makes me think of how the iTunes app store does it, with an all reviews tab and a current version tab. Maybe to combine my thoughts here, you can modify your vote after a period of time since after a while you may not enjoy the same things (like when I found all my Favorited YouTube videos from when I first created my account and instantly felt shame). If editing a review was allowed, it would be nice to have the old review logged and to be able to see what changed, I've seen this on some forums before.

There should also be something to stop people from making a ton of alt accounts like what they were saying on page 8.

Forcing a review on a no star submission also seems pretty good.

The whole idea of having a way to communicate with an author is a nice one, but the fact that it's a review section (probably my favorite way of seeing it put) instead of a comments section makes it something you won't want to see a million posts in. It would be nice to make a review of something, have the author reply, then allow you to reply to their response, with anything after the author's initial reply being hidden from everyone's view by default, or at least allow you to bring it into the private message system easily.

With the reviews it would be nice to have some incentive to say if it's a helpful review or if it isn't a helpful review (and maybe if it isn't a review at all but a pointless comment?), and also actually show a number on helpful-nonhelpful, and if something gets under a certain number (like -5, could be modified by the user) then it would be hidden from view if someone wants to have those reviews be hidden. The Rooster Teeth forums have this, and it's nice to not have to see things that aren't useful at all. Maybe also have something good that happens to people who post mostly helpful reviews, maybe like raising their daily max xp. Also it would be nice to allow sorting based on the helpfulness of reviews in addition to the date and rating currents.

Something that would be nice to somehow implement is doing something based on what the user actually did on the page. Like, give more weight to people who watch 90-100% of something in the movie/audio portal rather than people who do a preemptive rating, or maybe have it based on time they played of a game.

With the nostalgic people out there not liking the idea of not having the faces for the voting, there could be a single box next to the stars with a face in it that updates when you hover over a star or actually select a rating. I can imagine this making the voting area kind of cluttered, but someone smarter than me could probably figure something out to make it look good. While I myself am a pretty nostalgic person, I could accept this going away, but it would be nice to have it somewhere, even if it was an option to select a sitewide skin.

I'm also a fan of seeing some statistics about things, so it would be cool to be able to see a raw review score vs a score with peoples' voting power factored into it, or seeing an average score vs non-review scores vs scores with reviews. Also seeing an artist rating or something per portal based on their submissions to it. Not sure how welcome something like that would be to be added (especially if the voting isn't flawless), but it would be cool to view nonetheless. There could also be some kind of award given using those stats.

I also like jonthomson's ideas on page 6 about reintroducing the whistle and whatnot.

Site achievements (or medals I guess) is something I myself am really into, and it could be another way to make Newgrounds have a game aspect to it, like was discussed before.

Giving more rewards to higher levels could be cool, and maybe increasing the level cap too. Reworking the voting power might be a nice change too since a person could only vote once, as long as it doesn't get too ridiculous.

A preview button for the forums would also be nice.

I probably forgot most of what I was going to say, and it isn't in any good order since I was typing this all while reading through the posts, so enjoy my unedited distracted text.

If folks are uptight about losing the ability to vote 5 multiple times on a submission, howzabout giving them another way of showing respect for extraordinary submissions? After all, maybe there's something to be said for building a small hardcore fan base that wouldn't come across in an average score with one vote per person.

First thing that comes to my mind is to use favoriting -- I haven't stumbled across any way of listing flashes in order of how many favorites they got, but if such a thing existed, that could be a way of giving an extra "w00t!" without having to multi-vote. Or maybe let people pick a single "Best Flash EVAR!!" for each portal that they can change at any time, with a way to see the number of "EVARs" a flash got on the flash's page and on rating searches. Or maybe some other idea better than those if they would take a major site redesign to implement ^.^

If it would be too much work to do any of that, then one vote per flash sounds better to me than multi-voting. And I like letting people edit reviews whenever they want +/- keeping a log of the edits to keep people from abusing.

At 1/13/15 11:18 PM, JaredinoV2 wrote: Will there be a way to stop people from making reviews what aren't reviews? like dumb comments or "reviews" that just contain one word.

mark them as abusive, the same as you've been able to for a decade. at least when i used to be a review mod, they'd get dealt with fairly quickly, ymmv nowadays and idk how active the mods are now

At 1/14/15 12:42 AM, Sectus wrote:

At 1/13/15 11:39 PM, RealFaction wrote: Make a minimum for amount of characters you have to enter like 5 words or something, that'll change that.

Or 150 at least? I mean come on. Any review that has any weight should contain at least three full sentences.

150 words? for half the submissions here, writing one sentence takes longer than watching the movie.

At 1/15/15 11:08 AM, CypressDahlia wrote: You should just make "0" votes include a forced review.

yeah, i'd just make a .txt file that'd look like:

- bad two second stick movie, not worth a watch
- shovelware, come up with new ideas
- come back in 7 years and repackage this as "Pong: 50th Anniversary Edition", you might get more love
- oh hi there version 483768 of (bejeweled/flappy bird/parking simulator - delete as appropriate)
- when you have the same quality of animations and ideas as krinkels, then you can make a madness movie. until then, go away and don't come back until you have your own ideas
- newgrounds is not a suitable place to upload dress up games or content targetted at 7 year old girls
- do not submit incomplete or test works to the portal

problem solved. if someone votes zero on something, it should be incredibly obvious as to why, and not need explaining.

At 1/16/15 12:59 AM, 3p0ch wrote: If folks are uptight about losing the ability to vote 5 multiple times on a submission, howzabout giving them another way of showing respect for extraordinary submissions?

that's what voting 5 is for. if you vote 5 on everything, it dilutes the point of voting 5. if you want to show respect, write a quality review, favourite the author, link it on social media or something

At 1/15/15 11:00 PM, mattanderson776 wrote:

Also someone probably shouldn't get xp if they have adblock on when the page loads

most things don't even load with adblock on so that's kind of how it works already