what do you use to master your audio and what is your "process"? i'm rather bored so why not learn something.
I would like to hear some input into this as well, because I tend to only use a limiter, some EQ, and a little exciter to wrap things up. No post-production techniques or anything. I'm usually satisfied at that, but I always feel like I'm missing out on something.
At 2/26/14 11:28 PM, JoshuaHughes wrote: I would like to hear some input into this as well, because I tend to only use a limiter, some EQ, and a little exciter to wrap things up. No post-production techniques or anything. I'm usually satisfied at that, but I always feel like I'm missing out on something.
i use izotope ozone 5. but before that i used maximus and before that i used the limiter. i've always heard to keep your drums the "loudest" part of the song. it's what drives the song forward. unless you have a powerful bassline that just pushes you into the song.
then there are the frequencies and eqing. i'm still learning what sounds go with what frequency. which is a pain in my dick. but so far i haven't managed to make my shit sound like absolute shit.
At 2/26/14 11:28 PM, JoshuaHughes wrote: I would like to hear some input into this as well, because I tend to only use a limiter, some EQ, and a little exciter to wrap things up. No post-production techniques or anything. I'm usually satisfied at that, but I always feel like I'm missing out on something.
Right, there seems to be some misconceptions about mastering I've noticed
firstly, its post production so mastering is done on an audio file - if you are eqing your drums or whatever then thats part of the mixdown process and has nothing to do with mastering
secondly, mastering shouldn't really be done by the producer. Mastering engineers are professionals who should deal with mastering your track/s. and as the producer you should usually be content with how the final mixdown sounds.
but hey dont let me tell you what to do :P everyones process is different and sometimes a little post production eq/compression makes a song sound that little bit better
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so what do you mean? do you mean what do you have on your master bus/channel?
At 2/27/14 06:32 AM, AeroMusic wrote:At 2/26/14 11:28 PM, JoshuaHughes wrote: I would like to hear some input into this as well, because I tend to only use a limiter, some EQ, and a little exciter to wrap things up. No post-production techniques or anything. I'm usually satisfied at that, but I always feel like I'm missing out on something.Right, there seems to be some misconceptions about mastering I've noticed
firstly, its post production so mastering is done on an audio file - if you are eqing your drums or whatever then thats part of the mixdown process and has nothing to do with mastering
I think he's talking about EQ and limiting on the master channel. As far as I know, anything done to the master channel is called mastering.
At 2/27/14 10:08 AM, MkieNedachi wrote: When you say 'mastering' I assume you mean ' mixing down' instead?
In all honesty, if your track is clipping and you're having to throw some EQs and a limiter on the master channel then what is initially being said is, "I can't prevent my track from clipping in the mix down"
Don't attempt to 'master' your own tracks if you haven't got the equipment and the knowledge to do so. Don't put anything on the master channel. Instead, put everything on a send and add effects to that. - for starters Compression, distortion, reverb as a few essential things. Learn how to use all of these effects properly, understand what they're doing and then consider learning what other effects to such as a side-chain, hook the kick drum to the bass so you don't have them both fighting to the same frequencies and you don't get phase issues or boosting/clipping from the low end of the spectrum.
Make a habit of keeping all of your channels below -12db and then once your track is finished work on turning up the volumes suitable for where you want your sound to be e.g: drums at the front (turn it up), pads behind (turn it down), bass centered and in your face (mono: turn it up), leads sat in the middle and not pushing too much through the everything else. (remember higher frequencies sound louder).
usually post production work (mastering) is done on an exported wave file of the highest possible quality. usually 24 bit float depending on the daw.
i normally make some adjustments as i go and before i export to wave and then import back into my daw for more slight adjusting as a whole. and if i run across anything i don't like, then i'll back into the original and work out something different. whether the adjustments are in the synth used or in the eq.
as far as sound engineers doing the mastering, i know several music producers that master their own music. it may not sound good lol but they still attempt to do so. which is what i want to do. it gives the producer a more "unique" sound if you can get the mix just right. but if you want the highest possible quality sound, then yea, you would need a sound engineer.
i'm actually going back to some of my older songs to try out different mastering/mixing techniques. it's good practice i suppose.
At 2/27/14 10:08 AM, MkieNedachi wrote: When you say 'mastering' I assume you mean ' mixing down' instead?
In all honesty, if your track is clipping and you're having to throw some EQs and a limiter on the master channel then what is initially being said is, "I can't prevent my track from clipping in the mix down"
Don't attempt to 'master' your own tracks if you haven't got the equipment and the knowledge to do so. Don't put anything on the master channel. Instead, put everything on a send and add effects to that. - for starters Compression, distortion, reverb as a few essential things. Learn how to use all of these effects properly, understand what they're doing and then consider learning what other effects to such as a side-chain, hook the kick drum to the bass so you don't have them both fighting to the same frequencies and you don't get phase issues or boosting/clipping from the low end of the spectrum.
Make a habit of keeping all of your channels below -12db and then once your track is finished work on turning up the volumes suitable for where you want your sound to be e.g: drums at the front (turn it up), pads behind (turn it down), bass centered and in your face (mono: turn it up), leads sat in the middle and not pushing too much through the everything else. (remember higher frequencies sound louder).
I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I'm actually very familiar with a bunch of the stuff you just laid out. It's just that I do all of that during production. I try to keep my tracks around -6db instead of -12db before mastering. Too high or what?
Good to know I'm doing it somewhat right!
At 2/27/14 07:04 PM, JoshuaHughes wrote: I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I'm actually very familiar with a bunch of the stuff you just laid out. It's just that I do all of that during production. I try to keep my tracks around -6db instead of -12db before mastering. Too high or what?
Good to know I'm doing it somewhat right!
i've heard keeping the db between -6 and -12 was pretty standard when it comes to mastering/mixing music.
I'm ashamed to say I know virtually nothing about mastering. I just ignore that whole aspect... To be honest, it seems more important if you're making club-oriented EDM type stuff. I don't think mastering would have much of a beneficial effect on my music.
What I think causes a lot of misconceptions is :
Aside from limiters and such, why can't most of what happens in Mastering happen in the Mixing phase instead?
A question that I myself can't answer sadly. I admit I too don't really know the first thing about mastering ,aside from the fact that I use iZotope Ozone's Maximizer on all my master tracks.
One of the defining characteristics that separates mixing from mastering is that mastering is always applied to the track as a whole. That maximiser you added is mastering, not mixing. Another aspect is that you don't master a track until it's finished (or shouldn't...) and best practice dictates that someone else do it for you.
If you're mixing and your track is going over the 00db threshold and saturating you don't add a maximiser, you turn it down. Keep it below -6db when you mix, turn it up later.
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At 3/1/14 01:09 AM, MkieNedachi wrote: Mixing down or mastering is extremely important. - It doesn't matter what you produce, it will always be essential. If you're just pissing about with production and making bits 'n' bobs here and there then I guess it isn't all that important. But for those that want to be signed to labels and play out, it will be essential as you're basically saying, "check out my music, I believe I'm worthy of exposure" and the likes.
Allow me to clarify. It's the mastering itself that I ignore, of course I mix individual tracks. I just think that "mastering" often equates to brickwalling for the sake of loudness, which I don't particularly think is a good thing.
I'm well aware of how to use compressors, reverbs, and other effects, considering most of my music is based around the use of various types of distortion. I just don't think that "polishing" is necessary for me. I don't make exclusively synthesized music, nor do I make the kind of commercialized music that requires all the ProTools and what not.
As great as a mix is, taking that step back and adding that final polish is a vital step no matter what genre. I make anything from melodic death metal to classical with electronica in between and I always mix and master my tracks.
Mastering is not just "brickwalling" it, that's pointless (and bad practice anyway). There's so much more to it.
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At 3/1/14 09:42 AM, MetalRenard wrote: As great as a mix is, taking that step back and adding that final polish is a vital step no matter what genre. I make anything from melodic death metal to classical with electronica in between and I always mix and master my tracks.
Mastering is not just "brickwalling" it, that's pointless (and bad practice anyway). There's so much more to it.
It can make a vastly huge difference in the final sound, you can emphasise the elements you want the emphasis on and what have you, it can change the feeling of the track aswell.
Bad mastering is instantly noticeable too and I'm not sure this is just me, but, I've managed to make myself nauseous by experimentally bad mastering before! Seriously!!!
There's a lot to it though, it's something I would say takes a whole load more practise than the making of the music itself, it, in itself, is an artform.
At 3/1/14 09:42 AM, MetalRenard wrote: As great as a mix is, taking that step back and adding that final polish is a vital step no matter what genre. I make anything from melodic death metal to classical with electronica in between and I always mix and master my tracks.
Mastering is not just "brickwalling" it, that's pointless (and bad practice anyway). There's so much more to it.
Could you describe some of the benefits of mastering? I can't think of anything that you can't just do while mixing.
What do you use in terms of VSTs?
There's a ton you can't do in the mix. One example is widening the whole thing more than you can while mixing. Mastering also involves making sure your track works well in lots of situations (headphones, small room, big room, boomy hall...), that final balance that separates indie from professional music. Applying a multiband compressor is also an option, it's not always a good idea but it can be done, this allows you to balance the frequencies over the entire range in a very precise way and to add another layer of sound shaping beyond the mixing process. There's a lot more.
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At 3/1/14 11:13 AM, MetalRenard wrote: There's a ton you can't do in the mix. One example is widening the whole thing more than you can while mixing. Mastering also involves making sure your track works well in lots of situations (headphones, small room, big room, boomy hall...), that final balance that separates indie from professional music. Applying a multiband compressor is also an option, it's not always a good idea but it can be done, this allows you to balance the frequencies over the entire range in a very precise way and to add another layer of sound shaping beyond the mixing process. There's a lot more.
Okay, I see what you mean. I still think most of that can be done with mixing. I'm not really sure what you mean by "widening" either. To me, the things you described are not really necessary, and more often than not result in an over-polished product. But to each his own, I don't really care about having a professional sound, I just want things to sound the way I like them.
At 3/1/14 11:29 AM, ClockworkSpace wrote: I'm not really sure what you mean by "widening" either.
Making the song sound wider. Increasing the stereo width of a song. Wider often means better impact (so long as you don't over do it and create phase issues etc).
At 3/1/14 11:29 AM, ClockworkSpace wrote: To me, the things you described are not really necessary, and more often than not result in an over-polished product. But to each his own, I don't really care about having a professional sound, I just want things to sound the way I like them.
Precisely the difference between a hobbyist and a professional. A professional pursues perfection (pursue perfection, attain excellence!) in all his endeavors and on every level but if you choose not to that is entirely your right. Today I'm just here to answer questions and clarify as much as I can to help you folks out. :)
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At 3/1/14 12:49 PM, MetalRenard wrote: Precisely the difference between a hobbyist and a professional.
Hmm, I wouldn't say that. Many professional musicians (for example, bands in the punk scene) don't bother with it.
A professional pursues perfection (pursue perfection, attain excellence!) in all his endeavors and on every level but if you choose not to that is entirely your right.
Now this comes across a little condescending... it depends entirely on what your definition of perfection is. I would say I pursue perfection (even if it's a meaningless concept) but it's not the same idea of perfection that you would hold.
At 3/1/14 01:43 PM, ClockworkSpace wrote: Now this comes across a little condescending... it depends entirely on what your definition of perfection is. I would say I pursue perfection (even if it's a meaningless concept) but it's not the same idea of perfection that you would hold.
Yes, it is a little, because you said:
I still think most of that can be done with mixing. I'm not really sure what you mean by "widening" either. To me, the things you described are not really necessary, and more often than not result in an over-polished product.
I had just explained how it's different. As I said, you're absolutely entitled to that opinion, but the OP is asking about mastering, I have information he wants and I am giving it to him freely. I don't really appreciate you saying how useless mastering is when it is actually such a massive part of the process and, in doing so, I feel like you're disregarding my own knowledge and experience.
So yeah... No hard feelings, I just think I'm in a good position to help since I have a bit of experience in the matter.
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At 3/1/14 02:45 PM, MetalRenard wrote: the OP is asking about mastering, I have information he wants and I am giving it to him freely.
He asked what processes we use for our mastering, not for an objective "correct" way of doing it. That means I have just as much of a right to say what I think about it as you do.
I don't really appreciate you saying how useless mastering is when it is actually such a massive part of the process
Once again, I'm just giving my opinion and debating for the sake of argument. There are pros and cons either way, of course. I personally think that it greatly depends on what type of music you make whether it's even necessary or not. Apologies if I've offended you.
So yeah... No hard feelings
Sure thing.
At 3/1/14 03:21 PM, ClockworkSpace wrote:At 3/1/14 02:45 PM, MetalRenard wrote: the OP is asking about mastering, I have information he wants and I am giving it to him freely.He asked what processes we use for our mastering, not for an objective "correct" way of doing it. That means I have just as much of a right to say what I think about it as you do.
I don't really appreciate you saying how useless mastering is when it is actually such a massive part of the processOnce again, I'm just giving my opinion and debating for the sake of argument. There are pros and cons either way, of course. I personally think that it greatly depends on what type of music you make whether it's even necessary or not. Apologies if I've offended you.
So yeah... No hard feelingsSure thing.
Geez, guys, calm it down!!!
Whilst there is no agereable "Correct" Way of doing things.
What we do know, is that there are these tools that exist, for the specific reason of shaping the overall shape and sound of the piece of music that has been created.
Obviously if they exist, there's a need for them.
I think they type of music is irrelevant and moreso to do with the overall sound you're aiming for within that particular genre. there's also the fact that, ultimately as an artist you want a unique sound, something that distinguishes you from the rest.
If you're aiming for a sound where the instruments are muddy and having a negative impact on the other instruments in the mix, then sure! you win!!! you've got what you were aiming for.
But, I'm pretty sure no one wants "That" sound
Do they?
Mixing- Mixing is basically tinkering with everything you have recorded to complete your songs. You'll do things like drop in effects, adjust fader, EQ your tracks and so on. Think of mixing as putting the puzzle together. You're putting together the parts of what you have recorded, making sure everything hangs together right, and putting some finishing touches on things. When you're done mixing your songs, you should pleased with the way the song sounds and feel confident that you don't need to add anything musically.
Mastering- Mastering is adding sparkle and shine to your music. In a very basic sense, when you master your album, you're making sure that song one doesn't blow out the speakers while song two is barely audible - in other words, you want the levels of the songs to be similar and you want a general sense of cohesiveness to your recording.
At 3/1/14 03:30 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Obviously if they exist, there's a need for them.
But it doesn't mean everyone needs them.
I think they type of music is irrelevant and moreso to do with the overall sound you're aiming for within that particular genre. there's also the fact that, ultimately as an artist you want a unique sound, something that distinguishes you from the rest.
Yes, that's what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
If you're aiming for a sound where the instruments are muddy and having a negative impact on the other instruments in the mix, then sure! you win!!! you've got what you were aiming for.
All of what you described is what the mixing process is for. You even just used the words "in the mix".
How is a limiter or similar effect on the master channel going to improve how the instruments have been individually mixed? Think about what you're saying.
At 3/1/14 03:38 PM, ClockworkSpace wrote:At 3/1/14 03:30 PM, Stealth-Emergence wrote: Obviously if they exist, there's a need for them.But it doesn't mean everyone needs them.
There's lots of things in life we don't need, but we choose to have because they make things a little better. Same things is true with this
At 3/1/14 04:02 PM, MetalRenard wrote: *laughs and drinks a beer*
Good life lesson there, Stealth-Emergence.
Indeed :-)
* bumps glasses *
At 3/1/14 09:42 AM, MetalRenard wrote: As great as a mix is, taking that step back and adding that final polish is a vital step no matter what genre. I make anything from melodic death metal to classical with electronica in between and I always mix and master my tracks.
Mastering is not just "brickwalling" it, that's pointless (and bad practice anyway). There's so much more to it.
lmao stop being a dick clockworkspace - if you're experienced in mastering metalrenard I'm sure OP would like to know what you usually do/use (I certainly would)
have you got ozone? I can't work out if its really worth the money :P
Ozone 5 (and Alloy 2 for that matter) is worth every penny! If you're new to mixing and mastering you can also learn a lot from studying the patches that come with them. Izotope also very kindly publishes some stuff (literature) on mixing and mastering that everyone can use for free.
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