I had to watch one of my asians friends kill herself after being bullied by some goths at school.

Now that we can use our feelings to get stuff we don't like removed, it could be a nice time to delete a game called Pico's School.
That game has triggered my worst memories and i'm terribly offended by it.

Do I leave my post here? or do I have to contact Tom Full by email?

thanks in advance for your understanding

Regards

Anna Sersentium
Foundation for people who have watched asian friends suiciding.

At 11/18/13 09:16 PM, Zachary wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:12 PM, VirusN wrote: asshattery

The game Pico's School wasn't based on real people.

This game featured amorphous black blobs. And it still got removed.

At 11/18/13 09:24 PM, Zachary wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:21 PM, VirusN wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:16 PM, Zachary wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:12 PM, VirusN wrote: asshattery

The game Pico's School wasn't based on real people.

This game featured amorphous black blobs. And it still got removed.

It references Sandy Hook by name. Are you seriously that stupid?

Sandy Hook is the name of a town. Are you seriously retarded? Please stop making a fool of yourself trying to defend censorship, SOPA shill.
The name appears only in the title, nowhere ingame. The name of a particular piece does not always relate to the content.
Silent Hill 4 doesn't take place in Silent Hill.

At 11/18/13 09:22 PM, Elitistinen wrote: Humorously how most newer users think Tom made right decision to remove contents based of political correctness. Moreover these people really believe NG could be thrive with contents being censored. I laughed then sighed.

Missed the old days when stuff were freely floating around NG. Even the adult section nowadays is hidden, WTF?

There was no right decision, there was Tom's decision. Tom is the owner and can do whatever he wants with his site.
I see nothing wrong with him removing one vid. Dont worry, there will be more.

NG can thrive with one video being censored, no need to panic the whole site hasn't started new censorship rules. Although they are being considered there is nothing official.

People are over reacting.

Also, your sign up date is from 2012 youve been here almost exactly a year calm down lol

Giving in to censorship and political correctness will just feed it. Sooner or later someone will want you to cut out games like Torture Game 2 and maybe even Pico's School.

At 11/18/13 09:29 PM, VirusN wrote: Sandy Hook is the name of a town. Are you seriously retarded? Please stop making a fool of yourself trying to defend censorship, SOPA shill.
The name appears only in the title, nowhere ingame. The name of a particular piece does not always relate to the content.
Silent Hill 4 doesn't take place in Silent Hill.

I know you are doing this on purpose now, but let me correct you.

Without any context or anything then Im sure Sandy Hook would have meant nothing for being a title of a game.

But around a year ago there was a slaughter/killing of kids in Sandy Hook.

The name of this flash is "Sandy Hook Slaughte"r so it was in reference to the murders that took place then. This is made clear when thats what happenes in the game.

If you had put the pieces together (which is probably hard for you) it would have been evident :)

Taking down one flash is not supporting censorship or SOPA. Its just what Tom felt like doing for HIS site.

I respect your decision. This involved people's personal lives, non-celebrities with traumatic experiences. I believe that if you'd have continued to host on your site something that was bringing serious and legitimate distress to very particular individuals, that it would have reflected terribly on you.

Deliberately causing someone traumatic and unnecessary pain after they've expressed their desire for you to stop is nothing short of abuse.

Thank you for doing what you did. Much respect.

At 11/18/13 09:22 PM, Elitistinen wrote: Missed the old days when stuff were freely floating around NG. Even the adult section nowadays is hidden, WTF?

Didn't the old site have the adult section separated from the rest of the portal? I remember the banner containing a link to it.

I disagree, you're a hypocrite Tom remember Pico's School? made the same year as Columbine, PigPen made V-tech massacre game that created controversy and those are still up , Newgrounds was founded on controversial content, and we have been in need for some new content like that for a while. what happened at Sandy Hook was a tragedy but "feelings" don't matter regardless seeing as newgrounds has been a haven for original content to be freedom from censorship is one of the pillars that Newgrounds was founded on. and allow creative thinking, and allowing to buckle like this is weak even for you first this then what's next to be removed in the name of hurting peoples "feelings" or keeping what ad revenue you have?

let Pigpen resubmit it!

Thank you.
We understand your conflicted thoughts, but you have done the right thing.

Again, thank you.

Ok, so here's my thought on it.

While I never did play the game (Didn't even know it existed), it actually did make sense to remove it.

Now just because something gets removed doesn't mean that Tom is trying to limit the creativity of people. He's trying to make sure this site isn't destroyed like who knows how many sites. If I had to choose killing someone in order to prevent the deaths of millions, I would do it. He had to remove the flash in order to save the millions of flash movies and flash games that are on this site.

Now, I'm not saying that I personally know Tom. (I only know he runs Newgrounds and that's it) But I think he views Newgrounds as one of his own children. It's important to him in a way I would probably never understand unless I also ran a site that existed before the year 2000 (Not a lot of sites can claim this.)

If he has to do something in order to prevent this site from being removed from the internet, I wouldn't hold it against him. It's his site. I'm not gonna tell him what he can or can't do with his site.

For those of you saying that this was a bad move, put yourself in his position. Pretend to be Tom Fulp, and you have been running a site JUST like his. You have a flash game and movie site that's been around since 1999. It is the year 2013, where everyone will be offended and try to put you in jail for saying the word piss in public. Then comes along a flash game that is based on a tragic, terrible event that happened. You have two choices.

1. Let this game stay. You will get quite a lot of attention. But every single ad service leaves your site, resulting in that eventually, you will no longer be able to pay for a site the size of Newgrounds. Years of work made by who knows how many people are destroyed. Most likely, they won't be put back up.

2. Remove the game. People will get pissed over this. But it would ensure that your site would still have some ad services, allowing the site to exist FAR longer than it would have should the game remained. Years of Flash games and animations get to remain. However, doing so would basically violate what the site stood for.

Tom had a hard choice. Let his site get removed over a game to stay with the idea of unrestricted creativity so that he wouldn't violate what it stood for, or keep the site that he has owned for over a decade, but violate what it stood for.

This was a no win situation, no matter what he does. Again, I'm not saying I know him, but if he had let the game stay on and the result was that the site got removed, it would probably destroy the man.

He also did something that not a lot of people seem to do these days: He gave a shit about someone other than himself and he gave a shit about the feelings of the parents of the kids killed in Sandy Hook Elementary, even though it was at his own expense. It means he's still HUMAN, not some emotionless robot that people seem to be turning into.

While trying to send a message is a good thing, there are a lot of ways that it can be done wrong. This was one of the wrong ways.

It's not the end of the world if a Flash game or movie is removed. There's still like....a MILLION to choose from, some of which are probably more violent (Like the Madness Series) or offensive (Like the stuff Sexual Lobster makes.)

As for those saying that Tom is a greedy bastard or some shit like that, He NEEDS the revenue. Nothing is free. For fuck's sake, not even water is free. Sites cost money to run. I'm not sure why, but it just does. No money means no site. No site means no Newgrounds. No Newgrounds means no Madness Day, Robot Day, Pico Day, and any other day's I can't think of. If there's no Newgrounds, then there's no Madness Combat or any of the millions of flash series out there. Let me tell you something. There is nothing worse that can happen to something than to be forgotten. That's probably what would happen if Newgrounds got shutdown.

And it wouldn't stop there. Newgrounds allows artists to post their main sites on their user page. What would happen if that link disappeared. It would affect a LOT of people...in a bad way.

Anyway...It was a tough decision to make, But I think Tom had no choice but to remove it.

At 11/18/13 09:43 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: I disagree, you're a hypocrite Tom remember Pico's School? made the same year as Columbine, PigPen made V-tech massacre game that created controversy and those are still up , Newgrounds was founded on controversial content, and we have been in need for some new content like that for a while. what happened at Sandy Hook was a tragedy but "feelings" don't matter regardless seeing as newgrounds has been a haven for original content to be freedom from censorship is one of the pillars that Newgrounds was founded on. and allow creative thinking, and allowing to buckle like this is weak even for you first this then what's next to be removed in the name of hurting peoples "feelings" or keeping what ad revenue you have?

let Pigpen resubmit it!

Just one problem. Back then in 1999/2000 or whenever Pico's School was made, people weren't all sue happy or uptight. Also, it took place in a non existent school with non existent people. There's a difference between reality and fantasy. Pico's School isn't real. Sandy Hook is.

I can understand taking out some shitty game as you described, (after all, your website, your rules) but who is seriously blocking out forums that contain dissenting viewpoints? You should know that a censored party will just play the victim card and comeback stronger (that means censorship will not meet your goals unless you are intending for an opposite psychological reaction to occur). I do not agree with all those forum topic poster out there, but at least now you have a respectable reason to censor something.

@TomFulp
Man I had to check the date on the post after reading a bit into the first paragraph because I had deja-vu.
I remembered reading the same thing almost word for word a few years back, on the topic of hentai content getting daily medals.

Before I comment on the sandy hook game, I would like to address your side topic of groups #1 and #2, because actually some of the ideas mentioned sounds pretty legit.

I'd actually like to see videos on here that are not just about being made with flash.
I would assume the artists in question you mentioned also leave not just because money, but also because it is generally not acceptable here to post a actual video of stuff. Maybe some parody featuring video of real people, or a let's play, or some review, or some gaming news show.
Now I know a lot of people don't want this site to be like youtube, but you wrote that many aritists are leaving to go to youtube. And I can see where this is true.
Just look at Egoraptor and his GameGrumps thing. You simply can't do that here as I understand it because it is not accepted? Look at Jazza and his youtube shows, artist showcase, how to draw videos, etc. Remind me again why those shows not on this site? I'm a bit lost.

The issue might be better described as: they are not getting enough money for the time they invest.
It is easy to make a quick gameplay video or something, as opposed to some animation or game taking several months.

@JoSilver mentioned this site is becoming more unfriendly towards group#2, it is very true, but it is becoming that way for both groups when you really look at it. However "unfriendly" in reference to group#1 can be defined as NG not expanding what content is accepted to be uploaded or keeping up with trends in entertaining an audience. Be it Tom or the community in general making the decision.

You mentioned in response to someone here that NG is not the same as it was years ago, but I can see it has the same content it has years ago minus the art portal. It is definitely a welcome addition, however several places have user uploaded art. And I will admit this is the best place to upload it imo. Why not have this the best place to upload other stuff also? such as the videos I mentioned.

I actually liked the idea of "feeds". having various category of content people can subscribe to that will be visible to them when it gets uploaded. I guess similar to reddit? You should elaborate on it more when you get a chance. It seems like it with cut down on visibility of obscene/offensive content yet still allow people to post it and get it seen.

Now on the sandy hook game. I knew the game would not last long here.
I have never met you, nor know you, or know what you think.
But TomFulp did what I expected TomFulp to do. Simple as that.
Take that for what it is worth.

I do see what @Vert is saying also. More people are in the boat so when a storm comes there is more to worry about.
More people work for Newgrounds, plus you have your family, so you have more to think about.

@poxpower
I don't frequent 4-chan too terribly often but I remember reading a thread where moot mentioned the site does not generate a profit. But also that he does not rely on the site to make a profit. So I would assume that plays into what Tom said about moot not needing the money.

Censorship is another word for control
control of information and what not
Murder isn't something anyone wants to see
nor is it something to be turned into a joke
People grieve in different ways
some laugh, some cry
Why ignore human nature?
Why not let people choose
People don't have to click the link
If they click it then its their choosing
If a parent buys their ten year old grand theft auto five
it is the fault of the parent for doing so
A game will hurt no one
Censorship stifles everyone

At 11/18/13 09:48 PM, Vergon wrote: Just one problem. Back then in 1999/2000 or whenever Pico's School was made, people weren't all sue happy or uptight. Also, it took place in a non existent school with non existent people. There's a difference between reality and fantasy. Pico's School isn't real. Sandy Hook is.

what about Vtech massacre or Club a seal maybe the celebrity kill games? once again knee jerk reactions are taking over "OH PEOPLE DIED!" so what? people die all the time and if you want to make a game about it and post it here on NG that Creator should be able to without the concern of having it removed freedom from censorship is one of the pillars that Newgrounds was founded on, but apparently thats not the case, ad how can you sue seeing as this completely falls under the 1ST AMENDMENT.

I'm not a flash artist, despite messing with it when I was young. Ignore this if you will, but at the end of the day what needs to be done is what feels right. Of course the users of the website need to be considered to an extent, but the reality is that we can live without games and movies like that and anybody who leaves due to a bit of censorship has been here for the wrong reasons altogether.
We're living on Earth, despite that we may think of the internet as an escape. The bottom line is your job is to do what you feel is right. Running a business is about taking risks, and the staff of Newgrounds have taken risks before.

Any decision made on behalf of respecting murdered children and their families is decent enough.

Playing the game, it's easy to believe that the author intended to make the game as a political statement, rather than what it is: a game. Either way, there are much more responsible, if not effective ways to make the same statement. While I respect the fact that the game adds perspective to the Sandy Hook tragedy, it's still a radical move, and offensive to a majority. I stick to my opinion, and I'm glad the game was removed.

Also, you have to realize that Tom didn't remove the game because of public or personal issues. He removed it because of pleas and requests by victims of the tragedy itself. This isn't a matter of censorship, it's a matter of sympathy and compassion.

At 11/18/13 09:55 PM, Elitistinen wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:48 PM, Vergon wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:43 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: let Pigpen resubmit it!

There's a difference between reality and fantasy. Pico's School isn't real. Sandy Hook is.

Seem like you don't know 'a difference between reality and fantasy' either. Pigpen's submission is a game, which is fantasy.

Please elaborate more.

s
Ok Then. The school where Pico's School takes doesn't exist. It's not even named. Nor do the characters in the game exists. If there was someone like Pico running around, we would all be fucked. And before you say that it's based on Colombine or some other shit, play the game first. I don't think there was a ginger shooting the shooters in Colombine. Nor was Colombine an elementary School.

As for the Vtech Game, never played, didn't even know it existed.

The Sandy Hook shooting game takes place in SANDY HOOK, based on an event that actually happened. And after reading EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. POST, I have learned that it NAMES the school. Just because something is a game doesn't mean it's a fantasy. Are fishing games fantasy, despite naming actual fish? Are the football video games out there fantasy, despite naming actual people and football teams?

I know what reality is and what fantasy is. GTA 4, Skyrim, and Banjo-Kazooie are Fantasies. Sandy Hook isn't a fantasy.

Lets not start a flame war over this, Ok?

At 11/18/13 09:53 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:48 PM, Vergon wrote: Just one problem. Back then in 1999/2000 or whenever Pico's School was made, people weren't all sue happy or uptight. Also, it took place in a non existent school with non existent people. There's a difference between reality and fantasy. Pico's School isn't real. Sandy Hook is.

what about Vtech massacre or Club a seal maybe the celebrity kill games? once again knee jerk reactions are taking over "OH PEOPLE DIED!" so what? people die all the time and if you want to make a game about it and post it here on NG that Creator should be able to without the concern of having it removed freedom from censorship is one of the pillars that Newgrounds was founded on, but apparently thats not the case, ad how can you sue seeing as this completely falls under the 1ST AMENDMENT.

Theres a difference between clubbing seals and shooting kids. While I am a big supporter of the 1st Amendment, it is NOT untouchable. There are things you can't say, such as threatening to kill someone or threatening to kill their dog and rape its corpse. That's not ok.

People get sued over stupid shit all the time by the way, just ask any Elementary, Middle, Or High School. You would be surprised.

your site your rules bro

I actually played the game and admired it for its powerful message. This is meaningful, thought provoking art.
Censoring it screams hypocrisy. If revenue is the main concern, maybe Newgrounds is destined to die in the PC world.

I don't see how children are different from adults. They die just the same.

We had censorship in my country once. It was also a time of corruption and murdering army veterans.

Maybe just
make Newgrounds for #1 and Oldgrounds for #2

I have always thought of Newgrounds as a place where artistic freedom of speech was welcome no matter what the controversy. It have always been up to the NG community to decide whether a particular game, movie, etc. should be banished.

I would like the NG staff to consider whether the parents of Sandy Hook students would go out of their way to speak out against anything that would offend anyone. If Newgrounds censors one video because it offends people then Newgrounds should start censoring other videos that offend people.

It is a very slippery slope that I hope Newgrounds does not slide down.

Think about it: If a stand up comedian had to worry about not offending people then stand up comedy would not exist. The same may relate to Newgrounds.

tom removes graphic sandy hook game or "racist" stuff.

he keeps all the fucked up epona pregnant furry horse human porn on NG which is in my opinion the most fucked up shit since deviant art.

good on ya tom you silly moron. <3

At 11/18/13 10:25 PM, Elitistinen wrote:

At 11/18/13 10:09 PM, Vergon wrote:

Lets not start a flame war over this, Ok?

Yep.

...Anyone smell smoke?...

At 11/18/13 10:09 PM, Vergon wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:55 PM, Elitistinen wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:48 PM, Vergon wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:43 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: let Pigpen resubmit it!

There's a difference between reality and fantasy. Pico's School isn't real. Sandy Hook is.

Seem like you don't know 'a difference between reality and fantasy' either. Pigpen's submission is a game, which is fantasy.

Please elaborate more.

The Sandy Hook shooting game takes place in SANDY HOOK, based on an event that actually happened.

Remove all questionable content and question nothing.

At 11/18/13 10:30 PM, ZabuJard wrote: tom removes graphic sandy hook game or "racist" stuff.

he keeps all the fucked up epona pregnant furry horse human porn on NG which is in my opinion the most fucked up shit since deviant art.

good on ya tom you silly moron. <3

so... racism is fine, but deviant art, and other things that don't fall within your narrow world view are evil? Please tell me I'm wrong, and your not saying this

At 11/18/13 10:33 PM, Stevenscar wrote:

At 11/18/13 10:09 PM, Vergon wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:55 PM, Elitistinen wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:48 PM, Vergon wrote:

At 11/18/13 09:43 PM, Tony-DarkGrave wrote: let Pigpen resubmit it!

There's a difference between reality and fantasy. Pico's School isn't real. Sandy Hook is.

Seem like you don't know 'a difference between reality and fantasy' either. Pigpen's submission is a game, which is fantasy.

Please elaborate more.

The Sandy Hook shooting game takes place in SANDY HOOK, based on an event that actually happened.

Remove all questionable content and question nothing.

Then again, I enjoy watching videos of people getting kicked in the balls and watching people get killed in movies in gruesome ways, so I must be COMPLETELY MAD. :D

At 11/18/13 10:33 PM, Stevenscar wrote: Remove...

Implying it's not all jewish propaganda.

Tom, I think You should let offensive flashes stay. People get offended by a lot of stuff and in lots of cases it's not really justified. One can get offended if you enter a church in hat, other when you kill a dog. It's all mater of selfish forcing your morals on other people.

But there is a difference, of course, and this case is actually different. There are families, to whom Shandy Hook was part of their life, a real tragedy and they are more concerned about it than usual people like us. Unless you lost someone in that shooting, then making a game about it could be considered as 'stepping on someone's territory' and I think it's just plain rude if such family asks you to put it down and you don't want to.

Getting that sub down was a good thing to do, but we shouldn't agree to everything.