A Call for Mods

[DSMagnum]

Recently I made post in the lounge expressing about how the audio forum is yet again starting to fall apart. It seems that every few months we come to realization that we aren't posting appropriately and fix our bad habits, but that only lasts for a few days. And it seems that every time we have these downfalls, our beloved audio mods aren't around.

Basically what I'm saying is this: we need more forum mods.

Right now we have three mods who are or at least used to be audio regulars and frequented the forum daily. Recently though we haven't seen enough attention from them. I'm not blaming them for being inactive as any personal reason is acceptable. However, because of their inactivity we have been suffering a bit.

There have been countless cries for new mods from what I've seen. In the audio IRC we've had this discussion too many times. The general consensus seems to be that we need more mods. Yet it seems that every time we discuss this, we're simply told to PM the general mods who are on. From my experience this doesn't work very well at all.

All I'm asking with this thread is for people to post showing they support this idea. Hopefully that way we can get some audio focused forum mods that are active.

And please, do not nominate yourself or even others for that matter. We just need support for this. The admins are perfectly capable of choosing the right people for the job.

[loansindi]

Hear hear.

One of the biggest 'issues' I see with this forum is that someone will create a thread that doesn't need to be, it gets answered in the first couple posts, and then people just... keep posting.

I think if there was a more consistent mod presence, such issues could be minimized, and the forum would kind of fall into line.

[Rucklo]

could you guys give examples of threads that have been so alarmingly derailed, and that no mod who don't know how the AF works really would be able to deal with the situation in the cases where none of us current AF-BBS-mods have been around?

[loansindi]

At 9/20/09 04:20 PM, Rucklo wrote: could you guys give examples of threads that have been so alarmingly derailed,

it's not even an issue, necessarily, of threads that are consistently and alarmingly derailed, so much as a pretty consistent glut of threads that are answered with a link and then, sometimes, filled with needless posts.

and that no mod who don't know how the AF works really would be able to deal with the situation in the cases where none of us current AF-BBS-mods have been around?

Well sure, mods who aren't regulars in the AF -could- deal with these threads.

But they don't. I have spoken to users who have PMed several general mods about such threads and received little to no response.

I guess there is, at least among the folk I've discussed it with, a general feeling that a greater presence of mods would be beneficial. That is not to say that current mods are doing a poor job, and it's understandable when they can't be around a lot. We all have lives. But, DSMagnum raises a point that things are getting worse again. I know that I'm starting to feel frustated at the forums.

Aside from regs stepping up and being adults (even the children among us), the only course of action we've been able to divine in discussions (granted, this is a relatively small population having these discussions) is having a couple more mods who frequent the AF. If this means convincing a few existing mods to consistently visit the AF, and that works, that's great. If that means new mods, that's fine too.

We just want to see this place be the best it can be.

[Rig]

At 9/20/09 03:23 PM, loansindi wrote: One of the biggest 'issues' I see with this forum is that someone will create a thread that doesn't need to be, it gets answered in the first couple posts, and then people just... keep posting.

Nothing wrong with that. If a discussion is being held, why stop it? The more advice, the merrier.

[DSMagnum]

At 9/20/09 04:29 PM, loansindi wrote:

and that no mod who don't know how the AF works really would be able to deal with the situation in the cases where none of us current AF-BBS-mods have been around?

Well sure, mods who aren't regulars in the AF -could- deal with these threads.

But they don't. I have spoken to users who have PMed several general mods about such threads and received little to no response.

i have taken the time to contact mods before when I've seen a user out of line when it comes to the audio forum, but when I got the response from the one mod of six I PMed, I was told that there wasn't really a problem, but said user would keep an eye on it. The next day when I checked the forum, and mod who was also an audio regular had done something about it.

Simply put, things work differently here than they do in general, even if it's a part of the same BBS. The mods there don't understand how we in here work.

I'm not saying anyone isn't doing their job right. There just need to be more people doing that job, or at least have more activity from those with power.

[loansindi]

At 9/20/09 04:55 PM, Rig wrote: Nothing wrong with that. If a discussion is being held, why stop it? The more advice, the merrier.

What about when it's not a positive discussion?

I'm not saying anyone isn't doing their job right. There just need to be more people doing that job, or at least have more activity from those with power.

That's how I feel.

[Mich]

At 9/20/09 04:55 PM, Rig wrote:

At 9/20/09 03:23 PM, loansindi wrote: One of the biggest 'issues' I see with this forum is that someone will create a thread that doesn't need to be, it gets answered in the first couple posts, and then people just... keep posting.

Nothing wrong with that. If a discussion is being held, why stop it? The more advice, the merrier.

I think loansindi mostly means those threads where the one necessary response is given, yet everyone feels the need to either say the exact same thing with other words, or throw in some personal comments like in the previous 200 threads on the case. (This mostly goes for zerobombing threads)

[Mich]

At 9/20/09 04:59 PM, Spikrodd wrote: I thought that maybe i can become a mod.

no wait... asking to become a mod greatly reduces the chance of becoming one...

So, anyway... I'm on here often enough to be qualified. Plus i have all the time in the world! If inducted as a mod to the NG AP/BBS, I will bring glory to the golden aura.

In all honesty, I probably won't be chosen... but false happiness is good, right?

...right!?

"And please, do not nominate yourself or even others for that matter. We just need support for this. The admins are perfectly capable of choosing the right people for the job."

[YouriX]

As a forum Reg i have to agree with the OP ive seen so many threads that deserve a lock down so bad. Yet it takes a very long time before it gets locked or it doesnt at all.

[DSMagnum]

At 9/20/09 04:55 PM, Rig wrote:

At 9/20/09 03:23 PM, loansindi wrote: One of the biggest 'issues' I see with this forum is that someone will create a thread that doesn't need to be, it gets answered in the first couple posts, and then people just... keep posting.

Nothing wrong with that. If a discussion is being held, why stop it? The more advice, the merrier.

If discussions are going on of course leave the thread open, but once it's ended, there's no reason to leave the thread open so people can spam it. I used this thread as an example earlier. Before some of the posts got deleted, there were a bunch of unneeded posts. It's threads like this I'm referring to.

At 9/20/09 04:59 PM, Spikrodd wrote: I thought that maybe i can become a mod.

no wait... asking to become a mod greatly reduces the chance of becoming one...

So, anyway... I'm on here often enough to be qualified. Plus i have all the time in the world! If inducted as a mod to the NG AP/BBS, I will bring glory to the golden aura.

In all honesty, I probably won't be chosen... but false happiness is good, right?

...right!?

Please read the first post. I said specifically not to nominate yourself for a mod position.

[S3C]

do audio mods have the ability to moderate the audio forums? i guess from reading this thread they do not, which doesn't make much sense.

[loansindi]

At 9/20/09 05:23 PM, S3C wrote: do audio mods have the ability to moderate the audio forums? i guess from reading this thread they do not, which doesn't make much sense.

No. That's why they're called 'audio mods'

If audio mods were also BBS mods, we might have almost too many BBS mods.

[Mich]

At 9/20/09 05:23 PM, S3C wrote: do audio mods have the ability to moderate the audio forums? i guess from reading this thread they do not, which doesn't make much sense.

Audio moderators purely approve or ban new submitters to the audio portal.
audio FORUM moderators are just general forum moderators, as they can moderate any forum, but not audio submissions.

[S3C]

At 9/20/09 05:25 PM, loansindi wrote:

If audio mods were also BBS mods, we might have almost too many BBS mods.

I didnt mean the BBS as a whole, just the audio forums.

[DSMagnum]

At 9/20/09 05:27 PM, S3C wrote:

At 9/20/09 05:25 PM, loansindi wrote:

If audio mods were also BBS mods, we might have almost too many BBS mods.

I didnt mean the BBS as a whole, just the audio forums.

If you're a forum mod, you can moderate any forum. They don't have a local moderation system where they assign people to specific forums. Audio mods are limited to moderation in the audio portal. It would be interesting to see them implement a system where to could also moderate just the audio forum.

[loansindi]

At 9/20/09 05:30 PM, DSMagnum wrote: It would be interesting to see them implement a system where to could also moderate just the audio forum.

Interesting, sure. But what makes a good audio mod doesn't make a good BBS mod, and vice versa.

In my opinion, at least.

[Rucklo]

At 9/20/09 04:59 PM, MICHhimself wrote:

At 9/20/09 04:55 PM, Rig wrote:

At 9/20/09 03:23 PM, loansindi wrote: One of the biggest 'issues' I see with this forum is that someone will create a thread that doesn't need to be, it gets answered in the first couple posts, and then people just... keep posting.

Nothing wrong with that. If a discussion is being held, why stop it? The more advice, the merrier.

I think loansindi mostly means those threads where the one necessary response is given, yet everyone feels the need to either say the exact same thing with other words, or throw in some personal comments like in the previous 200 threads on the case. (This mostly goes for zerobombing threads)

this i think i vented my opinion on too. the main issue with threads being kept alive is of course that they steal some attention from other threads, but as long as it's not getting derailed, it's all good.

i'd like to finish off by mentioning that some users most likley think that mods are being too nazi, and some think we're too lenient. there's always gonna be different camps.
what i think is important is that there's a way to vent if needed. yeah, some "omfg where's my audio" threads stay open - but in most cases it's a decision made by mods to leave it open.
If a "0voting" thread keeps getting bumped - well, those threads don't stay alive for all to many hours anyways. and in most cases they don't turn spammy before being locked up, although some users wish to point out and help even if somone else beat them to it. that is a very convenient "issue" in my opinion!

[DSMagnum]

At 9/20/09 05:34 PM, Rucklo wrote: this i think i vented my opinion on too. the main issue with threads being kept alive is of course that they steal some attention from other threads, but as long as it's not getting derailed, it's all good.

Yes but when the threads do get derailed and there are no mods around to deal with this it becomes a nuisance. This happens all too often.

You as a mod are viewing this differently as those who aren't. What it seems like to me though is that you're taking this as an attack which is not what I'm trying to do. Back before you were a mod I'm sure you shared these exact same opinions.

[Rucklo]

At 9/20/09 05:32 PM, loansindi wrote:

At 9/20/09 05:30 PM, DSMagnum wrote: It would be interesting to see them implement a system where to could also moderate just the audio forum.

Interesting, sure. But what makes a good audio mod doesn't make a good BBS mod, and vice versa.

In my opinion, at least.

all modding areas are definitley different, yes.

At 9/20/09 05:05 PM, DSMagnum wrote:

At 9/20/09 04:55 PM, Rig wrote:

At 9/20/09 03:23 PM, loansindi wrote: One of the biggest 'issues' I see with this forum is that someone will create a thread that doesn't need to be, it gets answered in the first couple posts, and then people just... keep posting.

Nothing wrong with that. If a discussion is being held, why stop it? The more advice, the merrier.

If discussions are going on of course leave the thread open, but once it's ended, there's no reason to leave the thread open so people can spam it. I used this thread as an example earlier. Before some of the posts got deleted, there were a bunch of unneeded posts. It's threads like this I'm referring to.

i used to think that it's better to lock threads up once they're done, but if that is done then somone who actually may have something to contribute with - even if the issue seem to be settled - can't, and thus it may result in a new thread.

the thread you bring up i don't see as a big problem either. first the OP gets a valid reply, then TMM gives a more elaborate reply - if the thread had been locked after graveys reply, TMM wouldn't be able to give a more valid info on the matter.
then MICH comes along and makes a somewhat pointless post, but it's not spammy or derailing the thread really. In this case I'm sure MICH cares about this forum as much as any other regular, so yeah, I don't see this as a big deal.

and to make my opinion even clearer: i don't think this forum is under-modded, far from it.

[loansindi]

At 9/20/09 05:43 PM, Rucklo wrote: and to make my opinion even clearer: i don't think this forum is under-modded, far from it.

I guess the crux of the issue, then, is that at least a number of users feel that it is.

I'm not sure how to reconcile these opinions.

[Rucklo]

ugh, i made a longass post that for some reason i failed to copy/paste properly, and only the end got posted. here's the first part of it, it should (hopefully) clear up my personal POW of things:

At 9/20/09 04:29 PM, loansindi wrote:

At 9/20/09 04:20 PM, Rucklo wrote: could you guys give examples of threads that have been so alarmingly derailed,

it's not even an issue, necessarily, of threads that are consistently and alarmingly derailed, so much as a pretty consistent glut of threads that are answered with a link and then, sometimes, filled with needless posts.

well, show examples of those threads then.

i personally don't think it's a big deal if there are a few replies in a thread that says pretty much the same thing, sometimes it helps emphazise the answer to the OP, and help convincing. of course the best thing would be that after somone helps out in a thread, noone else posts unless there's somethign to add - but in these cases where people keep helping out, i don't think it's an issue. And then the cases where the thread turns into a slightly different discussion, that's usually cool too - as long as the thread don't get derailed with spam, or too much idle chit-chat of course. in many cases a thread do get a somewhat different discussion going than what the OP initially intended, but yeah, as long as it's a fruitful discussion, it's all good.

and that no mod who don't know how the AF works really would be able to deal with the situation in the cases where none of us current AF-BBS-mods have been around?

Well sure, mods who aren't regulars in the AF -could- deal with these threads.

But they don't. I have spoken to users who have PMed several general mods about such threads and received little to no response.

i remember doing that myself a few years back when the AF was un-modded, though the cases I adressed was mainly pure spamfests. and yeah, i do know that it can be more difficult to get "outside" mods in here, but in the above cases (thread not turning into spam/being derailed) I really don't see why it would hurt to wait an hour or a few hours until a mod gets around and deal with the thread seem fit. which in many cases could be not doing anything at all with the thread and the posts innit.

I guess there is, at least among the folk I've discussed it with, a general feeling that a greater presence of mods would be beneficial. That is not to say that current mods are doing a poor job, and it's understandable when they can't be around a lot. We all have lives. But, DSMagnum raises a point that things are getting worse again. I know that I'm starting to feel frustated at the forums.

i can't say i share your view, since i honestly don't see this as a big issue in the first place.

Aside from regs stepping up and being adults (even the children among us), the only course of action we've been able to divine in discussions (granted, this is a relatively small population having these discussions) is having a couple more mods who frequent the AF. If this means convincing a few existing mods to consistently visit the AF, and that works, that's great. If that means new mods, that's fine too.

We just want to see this place be the best it can be.

and that's really good. of course it's great when people are taking responcibility for the AF, everyone really should since it's a place we all share and make of what we want it to be. i've stressed this point myself numerous times, and i think it's great that you guys speak up and let us know if you think something is wrong etc.

and it's not that i oppose more BBS-mods being active in here, definitley not, but at this point i just don't see any kind of need for more. we're three active mods already, and that's more than enough to deal with a slow moving forum like this. i mean, the OMFGSPAMFEST type issues can ALWAYS be adressed to any BBS-mod who's online, all BBS-mods know spam when they see it.

I log on and browse this place at least once/day, even now when i've been extremley busy with 150% school + work on top of that. often i see SBB and Rig around, and as far as i know they too always check in on the AF when logged in. Hell, it's very common that when I log in, there's nothing to mod because said mods already cleaned stuff up! :)

At 9/20/09 04:56 PM, DSMagnum wrote: Simply put, things work differently here than they do in general, even if it's a part of the same BBS. The mods there don't understand how we in here work.

no most don't, though spam they know. i think i pretty much cleared my opinion on this above

[EmperorCharlemagne]

At 9/20/09 05:32 PM, loansindi wrote:

At 9/20/09 05:30 PM, DSMagnum wrote: It would be interesting to see them implement a system where to could also moderate just the audio forum.

Interesting, sure. But what makes a good audio mod doesn't make a good BBS mod, and vice versa.

In my opinion, at least.

Frankly, considering that these folks handle audio on a daily basis, they are probably more than qualified to lock a few topics here and there. It's not that hard to moderate the audio forum... it's not exactly a hot spot of NG activity.

[Rucklo]

At 9/20/09 05:42 PM, DSMagnum wrote:

At 9/20/09 05:34 PM, Rucklo wrote: this i think i vented my opinion on too. the main issue with threads being kept alive is of course that they steal some attention from other threads, but as long as it's not getting derailed, it's all good.

Yes but when the threads do get derailed and there are no mods around to deal with this it becomes a nuisance. This happens all too often.

You as a mod are viewing this differently as those who aren't. What it seems like to me though is that you're taking this as an attack which is not what I'm trying to do. Back before you were a mod I'm sure you shared these exact same opinions.

i managed to screw up my second reply in this thread by cutting out the larger part of it. it should be very clear that i absolutley don't see this as some kind of attack, on the contrary, i think it's great if people speak up and adress things that they may see as a problem. if it seem as i'm taking a "defensive" stance, it's most likley a result of my opinion on the matter.

[DSMagnum]

At 9/20/09 05:43 PM, Rucklo wrote: the thread you bring up i don't see as a big problem either. first the OP gets a valid reply, then TMM gives a more elaborate reply - if the thread had been locked after graveys reply, TMM wouldn't be able to give a more valid info on the matter.
then MICH comes along and makes a somewhat pointless post, but it's not spammy or derailing the thread really. In this case I'm sure MICH cares about this forum as much as any other regular, so yeah, I don't see this as a big deal.

You didn't see the thread before half the posts got deleted. Multiple spam posts had been made. One of the mods cleared it up to make it look nice.

and to make my opinion even clearer: i don't think this forum is under-modded, far from it.

To you the forum isn't under-modded, but that's because you're a mod. You log on and solve all the problems you see. But you aren't on 24/7. There are things you miss that people who are on and were perhaps mods could fix.

And to be honest I don't see you on very often. Nor the other mods. If you think 3 people checking the forum every few days is perfectly staffed, then so be it.

I don't wish to argue you with you, but if I must then I will.

[Mich]

At 9/20/09 06:02 PM, LaForge wrote: Honestly DS, I think you're reading way too far into this forum of ours. I don't see the problem that you do. There will always be noobs making stupid threads, and there will always be regs teasing the noobs for doing so. The forums aren't "falling apart" or anything of the sort.

Maybe you should take a break from the internet?

All what should be done in those newbie threads is help them out, perhaps send them to the right forum topic, and that's that. This way we can keep the interesting discussion topics on top of those typical threads. The typical lockable threads shouldn't be floating around on top of the forum for half a day in my honest opinion The look of another zerobomb/banned/... thread on there puts of some regular users to go discuss interesting topics.

Then incentive for us regular users here is to discuss audio related things, the incentive for a moderator is rather to clean up those threads regulars are bugged of by. Maybe if someone who regularly came here to talk about audio had the ability to deal with these threads, it would be better.

That's from my point of view.

[Rucklo]

At 9/20/09 05:58 PM, DSMagnum wrote:

At 9/20/09 05:43 PM, Rucklo wrote: the thread you bring up i don't see as a big problem either. first the OP gets a valid reply, then TMM gives a more elaborate reply - if the thread had been locked after graveys reply, TMM wouldn't be able to give a more valid info on the matter.
then MICH comes along and makes a somewhat pointless post, but it's not spammy or derailing the thread really. In this case I'm sure MICH cares about this forum as much as any other regular, so yeah, I don't see this as a big deal.

You didn't see the thread before half the posts got deleted. Multiple spam posts had been made. One of the mods cleared it up to make it look nice.

and to make my opinion even clearer: i don't think this forum is under-modded, far from it.

To you the forum isn't under-modded, but that's because you're a mod. You log on and solve all the problems you see. But you aren't on 24/7. There are things you miss that people who are on and were perhaps mods could fix.

And to be honest I don't see you on very often. Nor the other mods. If you think 3 people checking the forum every few days is perfectly staffed, then so be it.

I don't wish to argue you with you, but if I must then I will.

if you didn't want an argument, why make a thread in the first place... ;)

i personally don't tend to stick around the AF for all too many minutes, simply because it's not needed. if you don't see me around it's partly because i want it that way. before moving to another site f.ex. i go to http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/ and thus my name from the list of who's active in the subforum disapears. this is because i think it's an annoying feature that once going offline, the name takes a few minutes to disapear from the list. by going to http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/ i minimize the risk of somone attempting to contact me, seeing me online (though i've left) and not getting a responce until the next time i get online.
to check all who are currently online, and not just the actual subforum, http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/ is the URL to check.

i did not see the thread being filled up with spam as you claim, no. but a mod got around and cleaned it up, so imo its all good. as you make it sound it took a few hours or so, but in that case i assume it wasn't all OMFG SPAMMEDDDDD becasue i'm sure somone would have contacted an online BBS-mod to clean it up? perhaps that is what was done?

and like mentioned, i'm personally online usually at least once/day, and when i was modding this place alone for well over a year, that was more than enough. the forum hasn't grown much since then tbh, and now we're three mods doing the job... i experience that many times when i log on all things have been dealt with already, so i move on.

you'll most likley find me in general forum 80% of the total amount of time i'm online, split 20% in the AF and the mod-forums. simply put, because there's not that much to do in the AF.

and again i'd like to point out that leaving a thread unmodded is a modding-decision too.

[Rucklo]

At 9/20/09 06:02 PM, LaForge wrote: Maybe you should take a break from the internet?

WARNING!

[Mich]

At 9/20/09 06:12 PM, LaForge wrote: We don't need more mods, we need smarter users.

The thing is that you can not do something about the latter option.

[Gloudas]

I've been a reg on the audio forum for a year and a half, checking the forums almost every day, and while I don't post that often, I still read the vast majority of the posts that go through this forum. While yes, the forum can at times seem unkempt, I think that in no way is it in a state of alarm or disarray. I've always loved the mix of intelligent threads and complete bullshit in this forum: every day I can expect to see some new post about a fresh music mixing technique or a new contest that someone's throwing, and at the same time see 2 or 3 threads bitching about zerobombing and/or music not getting approved. But that mix of crap and value is what I love about this place. I enjoy a good talk about a new VST for FL as much as the next guy, but really, what fun would the forum be without some idiotic discussion coming in and breaking up the seriousness? If mods were patrolling and locking constantly, those bits of nonsense that we get to have here would almost never occur, and really, what would be the fun of having this community then? It made me glad to read that rucklo and the other mods actively allow some unnecessary threads to live, because it is in the sheer ridiculousness of many of those threads that the real character and fun of the people here is revealed.

I would just consider before you bash on the mods, that maybe a bit of laxity adds some zest to a sometimes inactive forum.