I have noticed in the heavy metal / rock areas about %90 of all of the songs are just VST guitars that don't have much dynamics at all.
I went out and bought a good mixer, a good firewire interface, a good Marshall full stack and a good condenser microphone so that I could record -real- metal guitar.
Which is better? VST or real recording? (assuming that both are of equal quality)
Better sounding? Real guitar.
Cheaper and requiring less experience/training? VST plugins.
Most artists on NG are young, poor, and inexperienced. Hence the percentages.
FL Slayer needs to disappear from the synth rack....
As soon as i here a plug in like slayer in a song, then It's a 3 or less on my vote... fake guitars suck people... don't use them!
.: The Audio Report :. - Artist interviews, songs, competitions and more.
I stopped using synthesized guitars for the exact reasons that are being mentioned (most guitarist can tell if its fake anyways, so why bother?). Also it shows that you have a little more patience and skill in music, since you're willing to learn the instrument and learn how to mix it properly (which is something that I'm still working with). Also you get more praise from the actual players when you do you use an actual guitar (and any instrument for this fact).
In the long run, just learn to play and use your guitar. It will get you farther in the music business (if you see it as a future) than you would if you used synthesized guitars.
At 2/26/09 11:13 PM, Zakimations wrote: Which is better? VST or real recording? (assuming that both are of equal quality)
That is a very badly worded question.
Reason: you can't have a VST with quality equal to a real recording.
Evar.
Some VST's can get close (CruelDiety uses the 'Ministry of Rock' guitar VST, which is ricockulously expensive), but you can never get a true, live guitar sound without a live guitar.
At 2/26/09 11:30 PM, Mrmilkcarton wrote: FL Slayer needs to disappear from the synth rack....
Hahahah....
^
Totally slayer :(... I hate it. (not the song the vst) But i can't find anything else. Slayer 2 is a slight improvement and Sample tank has some okay guitars but nothing near the quality of a real guitar. I wish I could play guitar, (or even just find someone who can record for me!)
Are there any descent guitar vst out there?
Smoke me, I'm dope.
At 2/26/09 11:30 PM, Mrmilkcarton wrote: FL Slayer needs to disappear from the synth rack....
WHAT?? You mean my baby?! Why? Ok... it can go... But I'm keeping my soundgoodizer! :P
The OP's question is kind of redundant.
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At 2/27/09 01:30 AM, EternalXIII wrote:At 2/26/09 11:30 PM, Mrmilkcarton wrote: FL Slayer needs to disappear from the synth rack....Hahahah....
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/2 16547
This is old I already replaced it!
: ^
Totally slayer :(... I hate it. (not the song the vst) But i can't find anything else. Slayer 2 is a slight improvement and Sample tank has some okay guitars but nothing near the quality of a real guitar. I wish I could play guitar, (or even just find someone who can record for me!)
Are there any descent guitar vst out there?
I know it sounds fake, but it's not really like to many of us are really trying to pass it of as anything less. I just used it and thought while uncompilable, it was the best I could do for right now. In the case of the "virtual guitarist" all i can do is fucking rofl. (hell yeah, I just used rofl as a verb xp) In the song above I really would like to see a live recording done to replace slayer in my track. But if I can find a better vst I'll probably be just as happy... well, not really but any thing is better than slayer!
Smoke me, I'm dope.
Just like sytrus, the plugin gets a bad name by novices who use the raw presets
all his guitars are metalized
ahem, pardon me. I mean synthesized. And he DOES use FL slayer.
At 2/27/09 03:36 AM, S3C wrote: ahem, pardon me. I mean synthesized. And he DOES use FL slayer.
*ahem* Read my post, please.
VST's CAN get close, I'll give you that.
But there is no way to get a synthesized guitar to sound like a real one. Not yet, anyway.
jray gets probably about as close as it's possible to get with FLSlayer. And CD, like I said, is very good at making it sound good. But the FEEL cannot be replicated; that slight touch of human, organic sound.
For that reason, real guitar recordings will always have an edge over synthesized guitar sounds.
When someone designs a guitar VST that sounds like a real guitar, I will bow humbly with respect.
But that doesn't mean I'm ever going to give up on real guitar recording.
I don't think he means virtual instruments, I think he means vsts like Amplitube or Guitar Rig
At 2/27/09 04:03 AM, TwilightNecrosis wrote:At 2/27/09 03:36 AM, S3C wrote: ahem, pardon me. I mean synthesized. And he DOES use FL slayer.*ahem* Read my post, please.
VST's CAN get close, I'll give you that.
that's all i'm trying to say. my post was in light to mrmilkcarton.
MaestroRage uses Ministry of Rock and it sounds nnnnnnnnnnice :>...but I would prefer a real guitar, too.
Real Woman vs Rubber Doll
pros :
- A rubber doll will never say "not now, I have a headache"
- A rubber doll will not have "doggy breath" in the morning
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cons :
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now to be more specific for whom didn't get it already
Real Guitar vs Synth Guitar
- A synth guitar will not get noise from cables if you put more distortion
- A synth guitar will never get rusty strings or get out of tune if you bend some notes
- A synth guitar will not get "eaten" frets
but as much you get exactly the same result if you do the same thing with a synth guitar
- A synth guitar will never sound like a real one (excepting some like "Ministry of Rock" that gets very realistic but is actually a sampler with real guitars recorded... hmmm...)
At 2/26/09 11:30 PM, Mrmilkcarton wrote: FL Slayer needs to disappear from the synth rack....
...until amateurs learn to use them properly.
There's a time and a place for FL Slayer, I think, but it's not the obvious substitution for a real guitar. It can do things a VST can but a real guitar can't, play to Slayer's strengths, and you might be on a winner.
Also, I think jrayteam6 uses FL Slayer 2, which is not free with every copy of FL studio sold, as opposed to the stock standard FL Slayer numero uno. At least, that's what I vaguely remember reading somewhere...
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At 2/27/09 09:05 AM, Bjra wrote:At 2/26/09 11:19 PM, Nav wrote: Better sounding? Real guitar.i laugh at your stereotyping. my virtual guitars sound so real they blow your pants off and make you jump into bed with me. HA!
Cheaper and requiring less experience/training? VST plugins.
Most artists on NG are young, poor, and inexperienced. Hence the percentages.
I will be convinced if a Guitar VST can reproduce
Tom Morello's solos.
At 2/27/09 11:49 AM, CWN wrote: I will be convinced if a Guitar VST can reproduce
Tom Morello's solos.
Thats a good point. It's hard to get feedback from a VST. Also, you can't slap, scrape, or otherwise torture the strings of a VST, because it doesn't have any.
I'm sure there is no VST that can do fretless guitars with sustainers: this video, skip to 2:15
Another factor is that a real guitar is never perfectly in tune. Changes in finger pressure, picking strength, etc. always cause slight variations in pitch. A VST is usually perfectly in tune.
There's 10 kinds of people.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Real guitars sounds way better because they are real. VST sounds too... lame, really. And real guitars will always be better than VST. It would be sad if every guitar player changed to a PC (even though I only use PC for my music myself).
DYNAMICS. Synthed guitars lack it. But that being said, there are some songs that suit the synthed feel better than a real guitar would. Mostly because ALL of the elements are synthesized.
Lashmush also uses synth guitars, quite well, I might add.
I've gotten to the point now, where, when I'm listening to the song, I try not to listen to HOW it was created, but the song as a "whole". Cause I can still enjoy synthed guitars, if the song kicks ass. I have to open my mind to accept that it is just another branch of music, especially in this "synthesized" world.
It just has to be done well sound good, and not shitty, like the "OMG I JUST GOT FL AND LISTEN TO MY METAL" song.
With the dynamics of a person, nothing beats the sound of a guitarist using his feelings on a good solo, or aggressive rhythm. You can feel the anger, or the hate, or the love...
Even sampled guitars sound absolutely wank. It's not going to sound real unless it's actually being played and recorded.
This argument comes up like every couple of months as well I swear?
At 2/27/09 01:38 PM, Bjra wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti4UG8sAa mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_E-rsKWq 90
this thread was just decimated
MMm... those sound pretty good, but they still just don't sound.... real
At 2/27/09 01:38 PM, Bjra wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti4UG8sAa mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_E-rsKWq 90
this thread was just decimated
Not exactly, champ.
Sure, that second one was good. But it also involves a (human controlled) wah pedal and a $6000 keyboard.
It's easy to get good sounds when you have a huge budget.
But, IMO, it'd be easier to get a good real guitar sound with that kind of money anyway.
Hell, I can get a pretty decent guitar tone, and I've only spent about $700 (INCLUDING my guitar!) to do it.
So to say that synth guitars CAN sound almost as good as a real guitar... it's getting there. And the foot-controlled wah pedal is going in the right direction.
But it's not (yet) within fiscal range of anyone who doesn't do it for a living/have access to an enormous trust fund/something like that.
And even in the second one, I'm still not HUGELY impressed... it lacks the sort of dynamics that separate a computer from a person.
Decent vids, bjra. The guitar definitely isn't immune to digital destruction. Look at all the other instruments. Just with the new Reason, or eastwest's samples, even Film score composers are using those. Replacing string sections, actual orchestra's. It's still not the same, as far as humanization, but significantly cheaper for lower budget movies, and the difference?
In my opinion, I'd rather play the guitar. But I do use synthesized drums. So, its not about whats better for me, its more about whats available. haha. Even if I had the $6000 keyboard, I'd still feel better about my metal by raping my strings, rather than keys.
IN the end, as long as it sounds good. It's good.
SYNTH guitars usually sound exactly like what they are.
There are some pretty damn decent sampled guitars though. Kontakt comes with outstanding guitar kits but honestly it's SUCH a pain in the ass to tweak it all so that it sounds convincing. Might be more time and labor intensive than actually recording a real guitar... Then again, if you just cannot play or don't have access then Kontakt is a great alternative as long as you're alright with spending the time adjusting MIDI.
Bleh... still, like I said - Kontakt isn't a synth though so it's not really on topic... Or maybe it is... hell i dunno...
The stock K3 guitar kits (akkord) are really damn nice - but there are a few 3rd party sample sets that kickk a li'l booy as well...
obligatory link: Fender Metal Thrash guitar sample library for Kontakt /Guitar Rig/Amplitube
At 2/27/09 04:43 PM, Bad-Man-Incorporated wrote: Decent vids, bjra. The guitar definitely isn't immune to digital destruction. Look at all the other instruments. Just with the new Reason, or eastwest's samples, even Film score composers are using those. Replacing string sections, actual orchestra's. It's still not the same, as far as humanization, but significantly cheaper for lower budget movies, and the difference?
In my opinion, I'd rather play the guitar. But I do use synthesized drums. So, its not about whats better for me, its more about whats available. haha. Even if I had the $6000 keyboard, I'd still feel better about my metal by raping my strings, rather than keys.
IN the end, as long as it sounds good. It's good.
You are SO right man. I had to quit my band, job reasons, and boy do i miss it. Composing music all by myself is fun, but it's not the same... Making music with other people is the best damn feeling in the world. I use midi sampled drums, too, of course. I don't want to, I HAVE to. I just have no time for band, actually that's not true... I've just lost contact to basically everyone to make music with.
If i had a choice, I'd be making real live music RIGHT NOW. :(
That's what Inter-bands are for, silly! =D
<3
At 2/26/09 11:13 PM, Zakimations wrote: I have noticed in the heavy metal / rock areas about %90 of all of the songs are just VST guitars that don't have much dynamics at all.
I went out and bought a good mixer, a good firewire interface, a good Marshall full stack and a good condenser microphone so that I could record -real- metal guitar.
Which is better? VST or real recording? (assuming that both are of equal quality)
You would very surprised as to how many well-known producers use Amp Farm in pro tools...
Real guitars? Sure. Real amp? Not necessary at all...that's why DI boxes are so popular now.
