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The Official Music Theory Thread

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Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-19 14:53:26


nah,what i mean is the actual theory behind it...damn i don't know how to explain this,but i saw this guy on TV showing how to orchestrate
i wish i had payed more attention cause then i could tell you what i'm trying to talk about lol
he was showing how the viola (least i think it was a viola) section gave a certain atmosphere to a piece they were playing,all they were doing was playing a single held note

now it wasn't exactly like playing a minor over a mayor for example to make it sound darker


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Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-19 15:51:33


can someone just email me EVERYTHING to do woth music theory, i started learning it when i was at school and was just about ok, since then me acting took over and i learnt guitar on my own, theory went out of the window and i just play. so yes anything and everything you can get me would be appreiciated.


MY ALBUMS ON SPOTIFY


Yes peeps, I have albums out, go listen.

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Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-19 19:24:10


At 6/19/06 03:51 PM, pitbulljones wrote: can someone just email me EVERYTHING to do woth music theory...everything you can get me would be appreiciated.

I would, but I don't know much about it myself :P...At least not enough to like send you an email about it haha.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-19 19:37:35


At 6/19/06 01:05 PM, Winterwind-NS wrote:
At 6/19/06 12:38 PM, mhb wrote: you actually have to divide one chord by another triad minus the scale frequency in order to get the answer.
you don't know what you're talking about obviously...

winterwind, i don't wanna be a flamin' gripin' bitch and your music is awesome and i got massive respec for you but i gotta say this. if you don't know the mathematics of music theory then you obviously didn't make it that far in the class.


my youtube.

click it.

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Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-20 10:15:11


I'm taking the class next year
:)
thanks for the respeck


"The vibrations on the air are the breath of God. We are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice.. We give birth to the children of God. That's what musicians are..."

BBS Signature

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-20 12:57:17


At 6/20/06 10:15 AM, Winterwind-NS wrote: I'm taking the class next year
)
thanks for the respeck

no prob.


my youtube.

click it.

BBS Signature

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-20 17:30:18


At 6/20/06 12:57 PM, mhb wrote:
At 6/20/06 10:15 AM, Winterwind-NS wrote: I'm taking the class next year
)
thanks for the respeck
no prob.

Coolness. Okay, any questions? Lol

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-20 20:57:56


in a cadence , I - IV - I - V - V dom.7th - I
some people leave out the V before the V dom.7th...
whats the deal?
not too big, just curious


"The vibrations on the air are the breath of God. We are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice.. We give birth to the children of God. That's what musicians are..."

BBS Signature

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-21 08:53:44


At 6/20/06 08:57 PM, Winterwind-NS wrote: in a cadence , I - IV - I - V - V dom.7th - I
some people leave out the V before the V dom.7th...
whats the deal?
not too big, just curious

I don't know. Cuz they're stupid. How about this easy question to get this moving along...
Is the following triad major, minor, augmented, or diminished: Ab C Ebb?

easy stuff

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-21 09:00:21


Excuse my double-post. The choices are major, minor, augmented, diminished, and suspended.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-21 10:23:55


Actually, (darn triple-post), it seems that in this thread all that's happening is that people are asking questions they already know the answer to. I actually want people to ask questions to which they don't know the answer.

But nonetheless, I'll post a first lesson here.

LESSON ONE: The Musical Staff Basics (Part 1)

This lesson is about musical staves and all its components. The word "staves" is plural of "staff" (don't ask me how). A musical staff is made up of five parallel, horizontal lines that are all equally spaced (or should be haha).

The very beginning of a staff is marked off by a vertical line. This is to keep everything on the staff from falling off (or something). So now we have five lines with one line at the left end running vertical.

Now, if we put notes on this staff as it is, they will mean (virtually) nothing. We need a clef to show what the note sounds like.

The word clef is French for "key." Maybe this is because it's the key to figuring out the pitch of a note (don't worry about that word yet). Or maybe it's because someone on drugs thought clefs look like keys.

The are eleven(11) types of clefs in all; however, there are only four(4) groups of clefs.

The first group is called a G clef; it looks like some kind of weird "&." Yeah, it looks kinda weird, and it's hard to draw. Who cares? This is called the "G clef" because it indicates where the note G is on the staff. We'll get talking about notes in depth in the next lesson. If you look at it, you'll notice the little curve on the bottom. It points right to the second line from the bottom, which is where G is in this case. In that position, the clef is called the "treble clef." In fact, the G clef is so often in this position that the two names are used synonymously.

The second group is called the F clef and looks like a curvy line with two dots on one side An older version of the F clef looked like a snail. Really it does. Anyway, the two dots on the F clef surround the line on which the note F is placed. So in a bass clef, F is on the second line from the top. Again, the term "bass clef" has become basically synonymous with "F clef" since bass clef is used so often, but earlier on the F clef was placed in different places, such as the middle line (baritone clef).

The third group is called the C clef. In other words, the one used for violas. (Btw, I would have craploads of pictures for you, but NG is being stupid *gasp*.) The little "dip" in the clef in the center indicates where middle C is. For viola, it indicates middle C and is placed on the middle line. This placement is called the alto clef. A tenor clef is the C clef indicating the second line from the top. The mezzo-soprano clef (blah-dy blah-dy blah) is when C is assigned to the fourth line from the top (this is rarely used). The baritone clef (yeah, like the F clef one) is when the C clef indicates middle C is the very top line of the staff. (Blah blah blah yadda yadda boring). And lastly, the soprano clef is when the C clef assigns middle C to the very bottom line of the staff (phew).

Okay. The last group of clefs (it's not really a group) is called Percussion Clef. As you might guess, it's used for percussive instruments (those without tunes like drums or cymbals) and looks like...Basically it looks like a rectangle thing. This is also referred to as the indefinite clef (wtf?)

One last note on clefs is that you might see a little "8" below or above a clef. This indicates an octave clef. If the 8 is below, the clef is an octave lower, if it's above, you guessed it, it's an octave above. This is very nifty (not really). I'll get into octaves later.

Okay. NOW I'm done with clefs hopefully.

Now, you have the indicator to where G, F, or middle C is. This continues in Part 2 (whoopee!).

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-21 10:46:21


LESSON ONE: The Musical Staff Basics (Part 2 omfg)

Okay, here's Part 2. This will cover time signatures key signatures, and measures.

Now we have the indicator of where notes are on the staff, but what happens when we put notes? They just go. Like A G C F. Time signatures are not necessary for rhythm, and you can have more than one note without one. However, time signatures show the performer or viewer of the music exactly how it is performed or how it sounds. If I have A G C in 3/4 time for example, it would sound much different in 4/4 time.

Time signatures are placed right after the clef before any notes. They are written like a "vertical fraction." Like one number directly atop another. Now to get started, the most popular time signature, it seems, is 4/4 time. Let me explain what the fraction means. The four on top shows how many beats there are in one measure. I'll get into measures in just a second. The bottom four indicates the one beat is 1/4 of a whole note. One fourth of a whole note is a quarter note. So there are four beats in 4/4 time.

A measure is one section of rhythm. The end of a measure and the beginning of the next one is indicated by a thin vertical line drawn through the staff. These keep the notes in line and make sure they don't fight (or something similar to that).

Another popular time signature is 3/4 time. This is used primarily for waltzes, but not always. The 3 indicates that there are 3 beats, and the four indicates that each beat is a quarter note/rest.

3/8 time (such as in Fur Elise) means 3 beats, but each beat is 1/8 of a whole note, which is an eighth note/rest. 12/16 means 12 beats of 16th notes/rests in one measure. I do hope you're starting to grasp this.

Now, you have your clef, your rhythm indicator, measures, and what else? Well, after all that, you don't really need anything else to write notes onto the staff; however, there are some things to help you.

A key signature is something that comes between the clef and the time signature. It looks either like number signs (#) or like weird b's (b). Once I get into notes, I'll be able to explain this more fully, but for now it's enough that you know what they are. A few examples are C Major, D Minor, C Minor, and C# Minor.

But for now, we are done. This is the end of Lesson One. I hope it was helpful. Now for me thinking of Lesson Two.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-21 20:39:54


Wow that was nicely typed
I don't see any bad points to this either
so far everything is correct
continue with your lessons, I'm sure there's
atleast one poor soul who learns something
outta these

great job


"The vibrations on the air are the breath of God. We are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice.. We give birth to the children of God. That's what musicians are..."

BBS Signature

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-21 21:38:17


At 6/21/06 08:39 PM, Winterwind-NS wrote: Wow that was nicely typed
I don't see any bad points to this either
so far everything is correct
continue with your lessons, I'm sure there's
atleast one poor soul who learns something
outta these

great job

Fanks. I'm still thinking about Lesson Two.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-23 07:50:37


Ach, I don't feel like continuing to lesson 2. Unless someone REALLY wants me to. Besides, it's kinda straying from the title of The Official Music Theory Questions Thread. Yeah, have any questions, guys?

I really need to make up my mind.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-23 11:07:55


I have a question for you theory guru's.

How do you figure out what chords you can use for the F lydian scale without having it sound too much like C major?

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-23 12:09:01


At 6/23/06 11:07 AM, Guitar_freak414 wrote: I have a question for you theory guru's.

How do you figure out what chords you can use for the F lydian scale without having it sound too much like C major?

huh?? having it sound like C major??
you can use major 7th chords,ninth & augmented 11

how do you figure out which chords?? you compare it to the scale
delta or major chords are very straight forward no sharps no flats
so the tones of the F lydian are F-G-A-#B-C-D-E-F
so it has a sharp 4th only which is an 11 also
that means any major chord will fit with F lydian because there are no 3-5-7 sharps or flats

1-2-3-#4-5-6-7-1 <----thats a lydian scale

now that you have the basics tell me why i can also use Ab,Bb,Db,Eb & Gb with F lydian...i already basically gave you the answer :)


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Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-23 22:31:51


Ya! Keep at your tutorials... yours is WAY more specific then my "Music Theory for the Masses". Mines is just like a reference.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 11:57:12


At 6/21/06 08:53 AM, MusicalRocky wrote: How about this easy question to get this moving along...
Is the following triad major, minor, augmented, or diminished: Ab C Ebb?

easy stuff

It's none:
major = Ab C Eb
minor = Ab Cb Eb
augmented = Ab Cb E
diminished = Ab Cb Ebb
suspended = Ab Bb/Db Ebb

Other notes I'd like to make, because I'm a
mhb, inverting a chord does not mean the root note changes. That means the (jazz) notation would not be Abaug, not even G#aug, but Caug/G#.

On the 13th: this is all in the line of adding triads.
Like this:
G7 = G B D F
G9 = G B D F A
G11 = G B D F A C
G13 = G B D F A C E

To simplify these chords, usually some omissions are done. A 5th (in this case, the D) can easily be omitted.
The G11 often also omits the 3rd, because it tends to collide with the 9th and the 11th. The result can be written as F/G, or if you leave the 5th: Dm7/G
In a G13, you can choose to omit either the 3rd and the 5th (--> Fmaj7/G) or omitting the 9th, the 11th, or both. For guitar the latter is most handy: you can now play it this way:
--x-
--5-
--4-
--3-
--x-
--3-

Nice huh? Can I get a cookie now?

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 16:24:15


At 6/24/06 11:57 AM, WinTang wrote:
lots of things

Nice huh? Can I get a cookie now?

How do 10 cookies sound?

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 17:23:23


At 6/24/06 04:24 PM, MusicalRocky wrote:
At 6/24/06 11:57 AM, WinTang wrote:
lots of things

Nice huh? Can I get a cookie now?
How do 10 cookies sound?

Is that a music theory question again?

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 17:25:54


At 6/24/06 04:24 PM, MusicalRocky wrote:
How do 10 cookies sound?

Depends what they are doing, but I'd say "crunchy".

Adding another question; when on earth would you use an augmented chord? I have not found a single use for one yet. Please, someone tell me, I'd like to know.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 17:39:45


At 6/24/06 05:25 PM, Grumbleduke wrote:
Adding another question; when on earth would you use an augmented chord? I have not found a single use for one yet. Please, someone tell me, I'd like to know.

For one, they seem to work a little like dominants: Gaug --> C
Because in a G7 --> C, the B dissolves to C, and the F to E. Now instead of an F, you have a D# dissolving to E.
Of course, a Gaug7 (G B D# F) gets the job done even better and makes it sound more jazzy.
A large feat of jazz is to create as much as chromatic flows as possible. Augmented chords are nice for that, such as in the sequence Gm - Gaug - C. Two chromatic flows: Bb - B - C and D-D#-E.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 17:43:02


I feel enlightened now. Thanking ye kindly. Now I shall have to go and try it out!

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 17:43:31


LESSON TWO: Note Names

Okay, yous guys. This lesson is about notes. The "and such" is just something that makes it sound cooler, I think.

A note (<=hopefully that's bold/italicized) in music is the name of a specific music sound. Like in the song "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star," the sound that plays for each syllable is one NOTE. Notes are given specific names and have certain appearances.

If you have access to a piano/keyboard, take a finger and run it straight down/up it (this is called a glissando, btw). All the white notes are what we call Generic Notes. Actually, they're not really called that (to my knowledge), but it sounds nifty. These notes are given generic names--alphabetic names. A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. However, they do not come in this order. Here's where octaves come into play. If you look at a piano, you'll notice that notes seem to be in groups. Each group has five black keys and seven white keys. That's a total of twelve notes in all. These twelve notes make up an octave. Just...turn your head haha.

The very first note is called C. The C that is closest to the middle of an 88-key piano is called Middle C...for obvious reasons. The next white key over is called D. This is a cool one because you can always say "I'm playing D" (lolwtf). The next white key over from D is called E (and yes, I am going on, even though this is common sense). The next white key is F. The next one is called G. The next white key is called A, and then the next is B. The following is the next octave's C. I usually call that one "the C above middle C." It would be a lot more convenient if every note had special names, but NO!

All right. In addition to have a name, each note has a special place on the Musical Staff. (Eh? Remember the musical staff?) If we're using the alto clef, then Middle C would be on the middle line. On the treble clef, the middle line is the B above Middle C. If you count down from this B, you'll find you run out of room on the staff to go to Middle C. Oh, no! What happens now?

Well, we can actually (sneakily) extend the musical staff using something called Ledger Lines (sounds like a Housing Complex or something). Link. That is an example of Ledger Lines above the Musical Staff. So, as you can see, You can add one ledger line below the staff and add a note on it to make it Middle C (omfg what an accomplishment).

If you're using the bass clef, then you can put a Middle C (even though it's not really supposed to happen). You add one ledger line above the staff with the bass clef and add a note, and it's middle C. You can even "count" up from the F on the staff (F, G, A, B, C!). In fact, this leads me to talk about (inevitably) The Grand Staff. And, yes, it is very grand.

You see, normally, the staff with the treble clef is used only for treble notes (really? wow...). This means Middle C and higher. And bass clef uses bass notes (lower than Middle C). This means that, if someone was using a piano, it's essentially "split apart." This is not meant to be! The Grand Staff is a combination of both the Treble Staff and the Bass Staff to show a instrument with both treble and bass notes.

But what does this look like? Well, the Treble Clef goes on top, and the Bass Clef on the bottom. Then, a bold line connects them both on the left side, making them of one spirit (lawl). But wait! Then a brace sort of just goes on the side (for no apparent reason). Then we have the Grand Staff. Picture. There you can see all the stuff I just said blah blah blah.

Now...back on topic. Middle C essentially joins the two staves. Because it's the middle of them visually. Middle C is one ledger line down from the Treble Staff; it's one ledger line up from the Bass Staff.

Actually, now that I get into it, we shouldn't really call them the Treble and Bass Staves. The top staff can essentially play bass notes, and vice versa. So, if I wanted the bottom staff to play treble and the top staff to play an octave higher, you could easily just add a crapload of ledger lines. It's better to call them the Right Hand and the Left Hand.

ANYWAY. *Looks back to see where he got on a tangent* OH. So there you have it. Those are the generic names...which means the names of the white keys on the piano. The black keys don't get their own special, original names. They're not special. They are named according to the white keys next to it. For example, the black key to the right of C. This is essentially "above" C, so we call it a sharped note. Since it's next to C, we call this note "C sharped," because C is "sharped." To shorten this, it is written as "C#" (the # represents the sharped..duh). The black key to the right of D is D#. The one next to E is...oh wait! There's no black key to the right of E. Crap, I just brought myself to another topic.

Steps. Steps are distances on a keyboard. There are basically two kinds of steps: a Whole Step is the going from one note (i.e., C), skipping one, (C#), and going to the next (D). So, C to D is one whole step. C# to D# is a whole step. As you might've guessed, a Half Step is going from one note/key to the very next one. C to C# is a half step. C# to D is a half step, etc. Steps are cool. NOT!

Okay, back to names of black keys. There is no black key next to E. The next key after E is F. E to F, therefore, is one half step. That's right. There can be half steps without sharped notes. Now, there's another way to name black keys. You can refer to the note directly to the left of a white key. The black note directly to the left of D can be called C#; however, since we're referring to D, not C, and since we're going down, not up the piano, this would be called D flatted. D flat. Whatever. D is essentially being "flatted" (oh noes!). To shorten this, we write "Db." It looks pretty much like a lowercase "b" but not really. The black note to the left of E is Eb. The one to the left of A is Ab, etc. Db to Eb is a whole step. Db to D is a half step.

Woof. Way off topic. Okay, I'm running out of characters. So this is the end of the lesson, unfortunately. Stay tuned. Questions are welcome.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-24 20:23:43


At 6/24/06 05:23 PM, WinTang wrote:
At 6/24/06 04:24 PM, MusicalRocky wrote:

How do 10 cookies sound?
Is that a music theory question again?

Lawlment. Okay, if there's any life out there, please say something about mi leccion. You have no idea how long it took to type that.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-25 01:36:08


At 6/24/06 05:25 PM, Grumbleduke wrote: Adding another question; when on earth would you use an augmented chord? I have not found a single use for one yet. Please, someone tell me, I'd like to know.

Mainly to lead to the IV chord from the I chord (or anything parallel that) of way of a passing tone:
C E G to C E G# to C F A

The G# is a passing tone from the G to the A.

You may also get an augmented chord wend doing neighboring tones and other non-chordal tones... but after all, I'm not the teacher in this thread so I'll stfu.

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-25 01:43:51


Don't mean to double post but GOD!!! Why are you getting into so much detail? You'll take YEARS to cover everything that I have covered in my thread! You probably won't even finish!!! You don't have to go super detailed...

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-25 08:04:00


At 6/25/06 01:43 AM, EmoNarc wrote: Don't mean to double post but GOD!!! Why are you getting into so much detail? You'll take YEARS to cover everything that I have covered in my thread! You probably won't even finish!!! You don't have to go super detailed...

Lol, I'm just trying to teach people ;) I hope I'm not getting anything wrong...

Response to The Official Music Theory Thread 2006-06-25 08:06:45


At 6/25/06 01:36 AM, EmoNarc wrote:
You may also get an augmented chord wend doing neighboring tones and other non-chordal tones... but after all, I'm not the teacher in this thread so I'll stfu.

Darn me...always double-posting...

Don't feel like you can't answer questions. Like I said in the first post, questions may be asked and answered by anyone; this included you! Feel welcome!