At 8/9/05 09:40 PM, NDP wrote: Believe or not, audio isnt important in flash. They dont need us but we need them so why shouldnt we be treated like we are.. coming from me,you should take that seriously because i am a very enthusiast pianist/composer and i know that a good thing shouldnt come cheap.

Silent movies went out a loooooooooooooooooooooong time ago. I've seen maybe 3 of some quality on NG in the looooooooooooooooooooooong time i've been visiting this site.

Another point.

How many top bands DEPEND on a flash movie? Musicians dont depend of flash artists for shit all.

Sure, free site. Free hosting, free to receive abuse from the mindless....

At 8/9/05 06:31 PM, SWiTCH_ wrote: What? I'm not afraid that bands are going to replace me.

"real bands would come in and take our places"

You are insulting yourselves and others implying that we dont have "real bands" here, insinuatin that we are all lesser mortals just because this isnt garageband or whatever... Talent is everywhere, and "real bands" would inspire us to work harder, or realise that we have no talent.

:The audio portal takes a back-seat to the flash portal as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, it does. Does that mean it should?

Newgrounds is a flash site. I post my songs here only because I post flash here as well. All I'm saying is that there are plenty of places for serious musicians to post there music and get recognized, and newgrounds isn't (and shouldn't be) one of them.

Whyever the hell not? You tellin me monkeybullman, bounc3 and pandora arent "serious" musicians? There are many others, but they are the ones that spring to mind. (hey rucklo if you're readin this, you're good, i just dont know if you WANT to be a musician as a profession)

Maybe NG thinks it cant match the competition, maybe it just doesnt want to, but i reckon it could, and i think an NG label would be SICK, and if they sorted out the mass 0 voting problems they would have an EASY way of deciding who would sell and who wouldnt.

By "real bands", I meant groups with multiple members. We aren't "bands".
And I don't think they are better than us. In fact, the music in the audio portal is a lot more creative and diverse than any of those other sites. Which is exactly why I don't want NG to become one of those sites. We're just individuals making our own music without trying to fit into a certain type or genre, because frankly there's no one to impress. :)

and sorry EckHart, I know this isn't what the topic is about at all. >_>

At 8/10/05 01:19 AM, TedJohnston wrote: why can't people just accept the fact the Audio Portal is simply the backwater section of Newgrounds? the truth is: the Fulps don't care and until they change their minds, nothing will happen. it's that simple. until they decide the Audio Portal is higher up the priorities list than #3423840093, nothing will get done.

Look, I'm not trying to be offensive to you, but you still seem like a relatively new member to me. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to have seen all the changes which the AP has undergone. Either way, saying that "the fulps dont care", and using that as a legitimate reason to back up the fact that you aren't interested in trying to help doesn't sit well.

To be honest, there is HUGE number of things that, if changed, would make the ENTIRE site run better. people constantly have suggestions for other parts of the site, and enough people insist and comment, changes get made (even if it is a slow process). I don't know about you, but I actually care about NG, so i will continue to voice my opinion on quality changes, in the hope that it might happen one day. I'm not about to give up and throw the towel in.

In the meantime, why did Tom Fulp autorise the following changes, if he didn't care about the AP:

- Implemented an Audio Forum (it's not like NG often adds new forums)
- Complete visual revamp (I'm not talking like a few new buttons here)
- Changes in the programming side of the AP (including submitting Audio)
- increased server space for audio

As far as I'm concerned, if they didn't care, the AP would look and function the same as it did a year ago. Sure, we can all accept that the Audio portal will never be as popular as other parts of the site, but is that really a reason to not care about it.

The AP is one of NG's major assets, and I seriously doubt the admins just want to "let it die".

At 8/10/05 01:53 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: Maybe NG thinks it cant match the competition, maybe it just doesnt want to, but i reckon it could, and i think an NG label would be SICK, and if they sorted out the mass 0 voting problems they would have an EASY way of deciding who would sell and who wouldnt.

Thats a good point, but as long as there is a voting system OF ANY KIND, people will complain. You have to understand, when you put music on a site for public listening and voting, the score will always annoy you. As someone has mentioned already in this thread, the people who vote 0 aren't all just dicks who want to lower your score and can't appreciate good music. Talented musicians are doing it too.

At 8/10/05 03:45 AM, SWiTCH_ wrote: By "real bands", I meant groups with multiple members. We aren't "bands".
And I don't think they are better than us. In fact, the music in the audio portal is a lot more creative and diverse than any of those other sites. Which is exactly why I don't want NG to become one of those sites. We're just individuals making our own music without trying to fit into a certain type or genre, because frankly there's no one to impress. :)

I think you have made one of the best points in this thread. More and more proffessionals are submitting to the Flash Portal everyday (due to it's increased exposure), but is that necessarily a good thing for the litle people like us. Most people submit to the site for fun, and to learn a few things. Making the AP more mainstream would slowly push these people out; it's about giving people a go, not trying to have the best audio on the web.

One of the things i have always loved about the AP is the huge variety of music here. I have found so many strange and classic gems in my time, that simply wouldn't be found on other sites. We should always keep this in mind. The changes suggestsed should be about making the portal better and easier to use for the artists, because I think the quality level is fine as is.

and sorry EckHart, I know this isn't what the topic is about at all. >_>

Yeah, we went a little off topic; like that never happens on forums ; )

Reasons people vote 0:

1: You're at the top of the charts in a perticular genre, and they do it to knock you off the front page
2: You submitted after them pushing their music down the list
3: They're unfair and biased and only like rap music
4: They're people from the flash portal who dont really care and realise they can vote and review pretty much anything here and get away with it.

You cant mark a review as abusive in the AP, and once a review has been made it dosnt show up in your review totals, so that should be introduced if to aid nothing but moderation.

Not, to be honest, have i ever had a single abusive review, well not a negative one anyway, because most people who do review are other submitters. Of the 98 reviews i've got for all of my tracks, only two of them were from non-audio submitters, and one of them was the author of a flash movie thanking me. it got on the front page. *snigger*.

Begs the question, whats the point of the voting system when there is a better one already built in reviews? If the AP used REVIEW scores to judge the charts, it would be a lot fairer, and there would be less movies with scores of 0, 2.50 and 3.33. Infact there wouldnt be any because it would be done in 10s.

I dont know how many topics i drifted over in that last post. Its 10 am. i'm tired. leave me alone.

Yeah, I agree.
I went to a flash site where they had the same probably of anonymous zero voters. Unless you have a LOT of people voting, it just doesn't work out. So they changed to review only votes. It completely fixed the problem. The voting is totally fair now. That seems like the ideal way to do a small portal .

It also means you can tell who the 0-voters are, and give them the correct ammount of stick if you catch them.

At 8/10/05 04:38 AM, -idle- wrote:

At 8/10/05 01:53 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: Maybe NG thinks it cant match the competition, maybe it just doesnt want to, but i reckon it could, and i think an NG label would be SICK, and if they sorted out the mass 0 voting problems they would have an EASY way of deciding who would sell and who wouldnt.

Thats a good point, but as long as there is a voting system OF ANY KIND, people will complain. You have to understand, when you put music on a site for public listening and voting, the score will always annoy you. As someone has mentioned already in this thread, the people who vote 0 aren't all just dicks who want to lower your score and can't appreciate good music. Talented musicians are doing it too.

Yes, and they are dicks who are trying to ensure they beat the competition. I'm sure some things deserve 0's for sure, and an NG label would only make the mess worse, but a system where you can only affect the points when giving a review would help the problem to some extent.

At 8/10/05 03:45 AM, SWiTCH_ wrote: By "real bands", I meant groups with multiple members. We aren't "bands".
And I don't think they are better than us. In fact, the music in the audio portal is a lot more creative and diverse than any of those other sites. Which is exactly why I don't want NG to become one of those sites. We're just individuals making our own music without trying to fit into a certain type or genre, because frankly there's no one to impress. :)

I think you have made one of the best points in this thread. More and more proffessionals are submitting to the Flash Portal everyday (due to it's increased exposure), but is that necessarily a good thing for the litle people like us. Most people submit to the site for fun, and to learn a few things. Making the AP more mainstream would slowly push these people out; it's about giving people a go, not trying to have the best audio on the web.

Not really, as we could learn from even better n bigger musicians than we have now. Imitation is a great way of learning things, and dont tell me that anyone who does is an uncreative pussy, everyone copys their favourite artists/genres to some extent...

One of the things i have always loved about the AP is the huge variety of music here. I have found so many strange and classic gems in my time, that simply wouldn't be found on other sites. We should always keep this in mind. The changes suggestsed should be about making the portal better and easier to use for the artists, because I think the quality level is fine as is.

Quality of what? Musicianship? Sure its good for a site thats mainly based on 15 - 20 year olds, but many of the older n more experienced musicians wont be here for us to learn from....

The quality/mainstream argument is a bit silly really, as to beat mainstream you have to be even more creative or skilled, this can only lead to better music. Also, would rock musicians be seriously upset if a current commercial rock band came here to chill n chat, give out some advice about recording techniques and how it works, for example? Not sayin it would, just if it did.
And as for creativity, trust me, for some of the obscure shit you can find on myspace and other sites like the acid pro site shows that true creativity is not deadin these places, even tho they have top "professionals" like metallica signed up, techno isnt shunned as the are different niches...

and sorry EckHart, I know this isn't what the topic is about at all. >_>

Yeah, we went a little off topic; like that never happens on forums ; )

I've gone wildly off on one, stop me if i make any sense.

It’s okay to go off topic; the one I created is clearly dead, lol. But I will state this one more time. I don’t wish to be more important than the flash artist merely better known among the site. I want to submit an audio submission and people want to view it, because it is from me. I don’t care about the awards as much as I do entertaining people. I just want reviews so I can improve my music.

See, I have been playing guitar now for about 7 years, and I play with my heart and soul on stage. Even though I make a wide variety of music, Punk/Hard Rock is my passion, and for me it’s not about awards, (although that would be pretty freaking sweet) I just want people to like to view my submissions. I realize that this will take time to be better known, and I am willing to wait. I just figured that if I made a big deal about it, maybe it would encourage people to view, vote and review my audio submissions.

I have been given A LOT of advice from some really good audio artists, so hopefully you guys will hear that I have been getting a lot better since my first submission, “Eckhart’s Project One”. So I hope that some day you guys will see a submission that says something with “Eckhart” in the title and view it right away. I’m not looking for a Platinum Track (as I’ve stated before, it WOULD be cool), I just want more viewers, and downloads and reviewers, because to me. It means that you guys have taken time out of YOUR life, to view my shit. It may sound dumb, but to me…music is my passion. Without music, I just Erik Eckhart. Some dumb kid, with nothing to do…So I leave you guys with the hopes that you will view my music, vote fairly, and review!

Cheers!

~Erik Eckhart~

Dude, if music is your passion...the thing which you live for...if you want to get noticed, and gain recognition...then get the fuck off the internet, strap on a guitar, and play infront of a crowd. Sitting on the internet and submitting MP3's (to the newgrounds audio portal of all places) is hardly taking an active role in your music career.

At 8/10/05 10:50 AM, jarrydn wrote: Dude, if music is your passion...the thing which you live for...if you want to get noticed, and gain recognition...then get the fuck off the internet, strap on a guitar, and play infront of a crowd. Sitting on the internet and submitting MP3's (to the newgrounds audio portal of all places) is hardly taking an active role in your music career.

My band and I play in tons of crowds almost 6 times a month, and we rock on stage. This is more of a sit at home kind of thing that I do in my spare time. I put work, girlfriend, band practice, and friends first. Then comes the sit at home music work.

I'm going to college for Mass Comm. and music tech. So either read what I actually said, and shut up. I play in shows, I play on stage. I ONLY do this for fun, but it doesn't hurt to a little bit of recognition from it.

I'm happy for you and your college degree in music, but making reference to it wasn't relevant...merely self indulgent.

If you're doing so well on the live circuit, and you're only doing this for fun...then why the hell are you taking it to heart so much. Obviously you're not having fun here, so why not move on to bigger and greener pastures?

Implementing a reform in the Audio Portal for the mere sake of your fun sounds abit lame.

I find it sad to think that there are people out there who don't really like music, and could never relate to it like the many artist on here. We are a unique bread. Musicians are some of the best people out there. I think that many of us put alot of care and emotions into what we make because this may be our only or best way to express ourselves. Thus, I think many people would like a little more appreciation and recognition for what they do, albeit there are many other sites for true showmanship and recognition. I think that many NG users would like to stay loyal to this site (a personal favorite of mine, one of the few sites I visit on a regular basis), while staying loyal many would appreciate seeing features found in the Flash Portal in the AP. This would create a hybrid effect. I hope I conveyed my message appropriately.

NG users loyal to the site, dwelling in the arts of music would just like a little equality so that they don't have to go elsewhere to find what is offered in the flash portal.

IN -Everything else in America is turning into equality problems!

JAG
Evolution of Sound...

IWhat are you saying..ppl are allowed not to like music, wtf its all about your preferences, i dont knwo you but im sure theres something you dislike and there are tons of ppl doing it, they are not stupid or weird because they dont like what your doing/ and khuskan your cocky attitude is starting to piss me off. Why do you keep mentioning stuff like how many reviews, or flashs you got, NO ONE CARES. . Ppl who are cocky dont get far, so get your act straight. All the more known ppl in life are the ones who take the time and teach others and help others, not the ones who can only think of themselves..the more your willing to learn, the more you will.

You have lost my respect. Now you must deal with losing a potentialy beneficial "friend".

Nicolas...

You'll watch a flash movie once. Play a game once, or possibly twice.

A good track of music however, you never get bored of.

At 8/10/05 04:38 AM, -idle- wrote: ...saying that "the fulps dont care", and using that as a legitimate reason to back up the fact that you aren't interested in trying to help doesn't sit well.

who said i wasn't interested in trying to help? oh wait...no one did, you assumed it.

In the meantime, why did Tom Fulp autorise the following changes, if he didn't care about the AP:

- Implemented an Audio Forum (it's not like NG often adds new forums)
- Complete visual revamp (I'm not talking like a few new buttons here)
- Changes in the programming side of the AP (including submitting Audio)
- increased server space for audio

yes, those changes are all good and great...but until the Fulps decide that the Audio Portal is more than just "music for flashes," everything will generally remain the same, no matter how many changes are implemented. you see what i'm saying? the problem isn't, "things need to be fixed", the problem is wrong attitudes.

Sure, we can all accept that the Audio portal will never be as popular as other parts of the site, but is that really a reason to not care about it.

again...if i didn't care, i wouldn't write about it, or be a part of it at all for that matter, now would i? i'm just trying to point out what the real problem is; it's not the voting system, it's not the graphical interface, it's not that enough people don't know about it, it's not --- . the problem is the Audio Portal's purpose on Newgrounds: the problem is that the Audio Portal's purpose on Newgrounds is a rather menial one...and until the Fulps decide otherwise, it will always be just a menial part of Newgrounds.

sorry if i sound like an ass -idle-, i'm just a cynic; don't take it personal. now don't be like jarrydn and take it the wrong way. well, good luck (i suppose...). cheers an g'day people.

-Ted Johnston

At 8/9/05 05:16 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 8/9/05 04:19 PM, SWiTCH_ wrote: If the audio portal gets any bigger, it will just become another garageband/purevolume. Real bands will come in and replace all of us, and it would take away from the point of this site (the flash). I'm glad Tom and co. aren't working to make the audio portal bigger, 'cause it would split the site into two parts. The audio portal is just here so that people can have royalty free music to use in their flash movies. Nothing more. If you want to get popular from your music I would try a different site (like garageband or purvolume).
In my opinion. >_>

Arent you the guy who makes good punk on his own?

Would you really fear the competition, seriously? Would you not buzz off having even better artists to compete with?

Could you not find an internet punk band, or help find band people in your area?

Anyone who fears being "replaced by proper bands" is just a pussy, adapt or die, which one would it be for you?

And as for splittin it into two sites... whats the problem with that? It'd still be newgrounds, and newgrounds will always have the edge over other flash sites...

thank u other muthafucker would b scared to step up their game
if yur so scared about bigger artists takin yur spot then step up and bring yur full talents out ...........shit.......I've been keepin the hip hop modern section mine for a long ass time everytime I see someone gettin better then me I up my game and crush them
but as for as the audio portal goes idk wuts gonna happen good or bad
everyone gets mad about the votin system

1: stop whinning and just make yur music there are gonna b haters so deal with it I do for all of the hip hop hatin muthafuckers

2: yes everyone does want the audio portal to be just like the flash portal but think about that it would take a hell of a long time look how the flash portal looked when they first started

thas rele it there's only two things that I had to say and I said them
so deal with it

IN

~1~

At 8/10/05 07:33 PM, TedJohnston wrote: who said i wasn't interested in trying to help? oh wait...no one did, you assumed it.

Well, in your post you were acting like there is no point voicing changes, because "the Fulps don't care". If this isn't your standing, then I apologise.

yes, those changes are all good and great...but until the Fulps decide that the Audio Portal is more than just "music for flashes," everything will generally remain the same, no matter how many changes are implemented. you see what i'm saying? the problem isn't, "things need to be fixed", the problem is wrong attitudes.

I see what you are saying, but I think you are taking it to the extreme. The Fulp's can still keep the AP as "music for flashes", while implementng some good changes to help the artists submittong the work. As I have said many times before, this shouldn't be about revolution, everyone knows the AP will be "music for flashes" for quite some time. I don't think the idea behind the Audio portal has anything to do with the problem.

again...if i didn't care, i wouldn't write about it, or be a part of it at all for that matter, now would i? i'm just trying to point out what the real problem is; it's not the voting system, it's not the graphical interface, it's not that enough people don't know about it, it's not --- . the problem is the Audio Portal's purpose on Newgrounds.

I think you are totally wrong here. The problems which need to be addressed have been mentioned many times, and once again, they have nothing to do with the AP being flash music orientated. NG is a flash site, everyone knows this, and it's obvious the Audio sections are designed to complement this, not operate as stand alone thing. The audio submitted is supposed to be for the use of Flash artists. I suggest some of you read up on the history of the AP; it was designed for loops and short tracks, not huge, professional tracks. You have to remember the theme of the site. There is lots of music I make which I would never submit to NG, simply because it doesn't fit the Flash theme of the site.

This isn't a music site, it's a flash site. Why do people want to change this?

sorry if i sound like an ass -idle-, i'm just a cynic; don't take it personal. now don't be like jarrydn and take it the wrong way. well, good luck (i suppose...). cheers an g'day people.

Thats ok, I can see what you are saying, it just annoys me when people use things like this as an excuse to not do anything about it. The admins aren't going to go and change something if their is no demand for it. Thats where we come in...

At 8/11/05 11:51 AM, -idle- wrote:

At 8/10/05 07:33 PM, TedJohnston wrote: who said i wasn't interested in trying to help? oh wait...no one did, you assumed it.

Well, in your post you were acting like there is no point voicing changes, because "the Fulps don't care". If this isn't your standing, then I apologise.

Yeah, statin facts really implies intention...

yes, those changes are all good and great...but until the Fulps decide that the Audio Portal is more than just "music for flashes," everything will generally remain the same, no matter how many changes are implemented. you see what i'm saying? the problem isn't, "things need to be fixed", the problem is wrong attitudes.

I see what you are saying, but I think you are taking it to the extreme. The Fulp's can still keep the AP as "music for flashes", while implementng some good changes to help the artists submittong the work. As I have said many times before, this shouldn't be about revolution, everyone knows the AP will be "music for flashes" for quite some time. I don't think the idea behind the Audio portal has anything to do with the problem.

It is the entire problem. Why say its for loops, yet give us more than twice the space we need for it? People do come here to here new tracks, and i like the idea of having around 4 mins of audio to play with, ITS GOOD PRACTICE.

again...if i didn't care, i wouldn't write about it, or be a part of it at all for that matter, now would i? i'm just trying to point out what the real problem is; it's not the voting system, it's not the graphical interface, it's not that enough people don't know about it, it's not --- . the problem is the Audio Portal's purpose on Newgrounds.

I think you are totally wrong here. The problems which need to be addressed have been mentioned many times, and once again, they have nothing to do with the AP being flash music orientated. NG is a flash site, everyone knows this, and it's obvious the Audio sections are designed to complement this, not operate as stand alone thing. The audio submitted is supposed to be for the use of Flash artists. I suggest some of you read up on the history of the AP; it was designed for loops and short tracks, not huge, professional tracks. You have to remember the theme of the site. There is lots of music I make which I would never submit to NG, simply because it doesn't fit the Flash theme of the site.

What is the flash theme of the site? do you really think that you have one absolute correct view on what is good and bad music for flash? Ie, it should all be techno, or all be rock, or whatever? Anything can go, if you dont see that then shut your mouth and use your brain...

This isn't a music site, it's a flash site. Why do people want to change this?

To up the quality of the music made for the site? I mean, another point is, it was originally for loops, yet they give us nearly 4 meg to make something, a whole track can be fitted into that. If it was to be loop only, make it loop only, dont have it as one or the other. If it was to be loop only, whilst i wouldnt like it i'd at least know where i stand.

I mean come on now, there are artists that could be professional that i know of, that cannot be arsed putting in full effort in to the tracks they put here, simply due to losing faith. This is because of anonymous 0 voting,

Sure, music for flash. People use commercial music in flash, so why shouldnt we try getting better artists to come to the audio portal? The only people that whine are those that would be OWNED by the new artists coming in, and cannot face the competition...

sorry if i sound like an ass -idle-, i'm just a cynic; don't take it personal. now don't be like jarrydn and take it the wrong way. well, good luck (i suppose...). cheers an g'day people.

Thats ok, I can see what you are saying, it just annoys me when people use things like this as an excuse to not do anything about it. The admins aren't going to go and change something if their is no demand for it. Thats where we come in...

They have already said they wont, we need a revolution, i mean nearly ALL the musicians that submit music to cry out for change.

At 8/11/05 01:22 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Yeah, statin facts really implies intention...

It was how he stated those supposed facts. I'm not an idiot, I read his posts, and I decided to take his comments the way I saw fit. Do you really care so much to quote it? Context is often lost on the internet, stop being so petty.

It is the entire problem. Why say its for loops, yet give us more than twice the space we need for it? People do come here to here new tracks, and i like the idea of having around 4 mins of audio to play with, ITS GOOD PRACTICE.

BECAUSE, one of the major complaints I hear from people is that there ISN'T enough space for longer tracks. Many people complain the the file size limit is too small. The way around this is to reduce the quality, and I have heard plently of full tracks in the AP that don't breach the filesize limit. I couldn't imagine them ever changing the filesize limit, for two reasons:

1. The filesize for Flash is 5 meg, and it would be silly to suggest that the audio should have a larger limit. The 4 meg limit in the AP is more than satisfactory for it's purpose.

2. There would be no point changing it to a lower limit, like you alluded to in your post. That would be effort for nothing. Sure you don't need 4 megs for loops, but does this really matter? They were obviously giving a bit extra to play with.

Now, never once was I saying people don't come here to submit full tracks. Many people do. But that isn't going to affect a change of the limits. LEARN TO LESSON YOUR FILESIZE. Simple.

What is the flash theme of the site? do you really think that you have one absolute correct view on what is good and bad music for flash? Ie, it should all be techno, or all be rock, or whatever? Anything can go, if you dont see that then shut your mouth and use your brain...

WTF are you talking about? I said its a FLASH site, as in it's orientated towards FLASH (you know, the MACROMEDIA program). I'm going to explain it for you in laymens terms now, because you obviously aren't getting it one bit.

The point of the Audio Portal is to provide music for Flash animators, royalty free. Therefore, for something to be OF USE to a Flash animator, there are certain restrictions which need to be put in place. That is why the system works the way it does. This site is NOT an audio site. People submitting audio are providing a resource for Flash animators.

To up the quality of the music made for the site? I mean, another point is, it was originally for loops, yet they give us nearly 4 meg to make something, a whole track can be fitted into that. If it was to be loop only, make it loop only, dont have it as one or the other. If it was to be loop only, whilst i wouldnt like it i'd at least know where i stand.

Why change something that is fine? You don't have to submit loops, you can submit full tracks. YOU CAN SUBMIT ANY AUDIO WHICH IS IN THE FILESIZE LIMIT. Would you personally like to go through and change all the programming to implement this pointless change?

Just because it was originally designed for loops, this doesn't mean you HAVE to submit loops. FFS.

I mean come on now, there are artists that could be professional that i know of, that cannot be arsed putting in full effort in to the tracks they put here, simply due to losing faith. This is because of anonymous 0 voting,

Ok, imagine you couldn't vote 0. Just 1 - 5. And only audio artists themselves could vote. And you could see a list of who voted.

THERE WOULD STILL BE PEOPLE WITH LOW SCORES, AND THERE WOULD STILL BE PEOPLE WITH HIGH SCORES.

Why would anyone lose faith from looking at a number. This is what happens when you let people vote, no matter what system is in place.

Sure, music for flash. People use commercial music in flash, so why shouldnt we try getting better artists to come to the audio portal? The only people that whine are those that would be OWNED by the new artists coming in, and cannot face the competition...

Who cares about getting better artists in? How many times does it have to be said that this isn't an audio site.

They have already said they wont, we need a revolution, i mean nearly ALL the musicians that submit music to cry out for change.

You can't have a revolution on privately owned site, doofus. The owners provide a valuable resource, FREE OF CHARGE.

If we had to pay a membership fee, then it would be slightly more plausable.

This is my last post on this thread because it's already gone way too far.

Jesus christ Ted, stop assuming that I misinterpret everything, because I don't. I know exactly what he's saying. If I didn't, then I wouldn't post in here, or I'd just leave a simple 'get over it, stop bitching'.

At 8/12/05 01:36 AM, -idle- wrote:

At 8/11/05 01:22 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Yeah, statin facts really implies intention...

It was how he stated those supposed facts. I'm not an idiot, I read his posts, and I decided to take his comments the way I saw fit. Do you really care so much to quote it? Context is often lost on the internet, stop being so petty.

It is the entire problem. Why say its for loops, yet give us more than twice the space we need for it? People do come here to here new tracks, and i like the idea of having around 4 mins of audio to play with, ITS GOOD PRACTICE.

BECAUSE, one of the major complaints I hear from people is that there ISN'T enough space for longer tracks. Many people complain the the file size limit is too small. The way around this is to reduce the quality, and I have heard plently of full tracks in the AP that don't breach the filesize limit. I couldn't imagine them ever changing the filesize limit, for two reasons:

1. The filesize for Flash is 5 meg, and it would be silly to suggest that the audio should have a larger limit. The 4 meg limit in the AP is more than satisfactory for it's purpose.

2. There would be no point changing it to a lower limit, like you alluded to in your post. That would be effort for nothing. Sure you don't need 4 megs for loops, but does this really matter? They were obviously giving a bit extra to play with.

Now, never once was I saying people don't come here to submit full tracks. Many people do. But that isn't going to affect a change of the limits. LEARN TO LESSON YOUR FILESIZE. Simple.

I'd be bothered by your shouting, but its like a gnat pissing in the wind a hundred miles away.

What is the flash theme of the site? do you really think that you have one absolute correct view on what is good and bad music for flash? Ie, it should all be techno, or all be rock, or whatever? Anything can go, if you dont see that then shut your mouth and use your brain...

WTF are you talking about? I said its a FLASH site, as in it's orientated towards FLASH (you know, the MACROMEDIA program). I'm going to explain it for you in laymens terms now, because you obviously aren't getting it one bit.

"There is lots of music I make which I would never submit to NG, simply because it doesn't fit the Flash theme of the site" Clearly you dont understand your own posts....

The point of the Audio Portal is to provide music for Flash animators, royalty free. Therefore, for something to be OF USE to a Flash animator, there are certain restrictions which need to be put in place. That is why the system works the way it does. This site is NOT an audio site. People submitting audio are providing a resource for Flash animators.

So?

To up the quality of the music made for the site? I mean, another point is, it was originally for loops, yet they give us nearly 4 meg to make something, a whole track can be fitted into that. If it was to be loop only, make it loop only, dont have it as one or the other. If it was to be loop only, whilst i wouldnt like it i'd at least know where i stand.

Why change something that is fine? You don't have to submit loops, you can submit full tracks. YOU CAN SUBMIT ANY AUDIO WHICH IS IN THE FILESIZE LIMIT. Would you personally like to go through and change all the programming to implement this pointless change?

Nah, i dont do programming, so i have no idea of how much of a task it would be. Why submit full tracks? You're only gonna get hit by emo faggy 0 voters and have your efforts stepped on. It'd be less of a problem if we could see who they were....

Just because it was originally designed for loops, this doesn't mean you HAVE to submit loops. FFS.

Really? Clearly i'm some kind of stickler for conformity and following the rules...

I mean come on now, there are artists that could be professional that i know of, that cannot be arsed putting in full effort in to the tracks they put here, simply due to losing faith. This is because of anonymous 0 voting,

Ok, imagine you couldn't vote 0. Just 1 - 5. And only audio artists themselves could vote. And you could see a list of who voted.

THERE WOULD STILL BE PEOPLE WITH LOW SCORES, AND THERE WOULD STILL BE PEOPLE WITH HIGH SCORES.

Yes? You got the wrong end of the stick here, you think i'm some kind of hippy with a problem with ranking? Even if i was. so what?

If you could see who voted, and it was only audio artists who could vote, it would stop genre morons 0'ing whole other genres for a laugh as the 0's would soon be returned to them... It would help stop people 0'ing others over personal grudges or political differences. Would in short, take all personal bullshit out of reviewing and leave a more relevant objective view of the MUSIC and not the MUSICIAN.

Why would anyone lose faith from looking at a number. This is what happens when you let people vote, no matter what system is in place.

Ok, how about you spend some time puttin some tracks up, and then me and about 20 other people go and 0 all your work. you go from 4 to 0.5 in a day, on the day its submitted. If that didnt make you angry or irritated in the slightest, you should be a policeman.

Sure, music for flash. People use commercial music in flash, so why shouldnt we try getting better artists to come to the audio portal? The only people that whine are those that would be OWNED by the new artists coming in, and cannot face the competition...

Who cares about getting better artists in? How many times does it have to be said that this isn't an audio site.

Funny, cos its got all the ingredients of one. A place where your music can be listened to, a chart based on a scoring system, and a community of artists who arent boring and like everyone else. Minus the voting system, this could be Myspace.

They have already said they wont, we need a revolution, i mean nearly ALL the musicians that submit music to cry out for change.

You can't have a revolution on privately owned site, doofus. The owners provide a valuable resource, FREE OF CHARGE.

Yeah, and we provide a resource to the flash musicians? Not much chance i know, but if we all threatened to piss off and give them a bad rep, maybe they'd do something about it.

If we had to pay a membership fee, then it would be slightly more plausable.

At 8/10/05 07:33 PM, TedJohnston wrote: now don't be like jarrydn and take it the wrong way.

At 8/12/05 03:59 AM, jarrydn wrote: Jesus christ Ted, stop assuming that I misinterpret everything, because I don't. I know exactly what he's saying. If I didn't, then I wouldn't post in here, or I'd just leave a simple 'get over it, stop bitching'.

i wasn't talking about your responses to his posts. i was talking about your posting habits on the forums in general. cheers an g'day.

-Ted Johnston

At 8/12/05 08:34 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: If you could see who voted, and it was only audio artists who could vote, it would stop genre morons 0'ing whole other genres for a laugh as the 0's would soon be returned to them... It would help stop people 0'ing others over personal grudges or political differences. Would in short, take all personal bullshit out of reviewing and leave a more relevant objective view of the MUSIC and not the MUSICIAN.

Please read the following lines very carefully:

Seeing the username of the voter is an invasion of privacy, and it's never going to happen. Ever. I personally wouldn't want the artist to see what score I was giving his work. What if, for example, I wanted to give someone a 0, or a 1, because their audio was absolute shit. OH WAIT I CANT, for fear of the artist in question seeing my low score, and going and giving the same score to all my audio. That is just one scenario which would occur in this crazy, bizzaro world of seeing who cast each individual vote.

Not only that, but the logistics of implementing that system would be a nightmare. If voting isn't annonymous, then it's pretty pointless if you ask me. Something simialr to the reviews in the Flash portal would be handy however, where each track would have a voting score, and a review score (yes, I know it already has an average of the reviews, but maybe put this in a place more obvious to the eye).

Yeah, and we provide a resource to the flash musicians? Not much chance i know, but if we all threatened to piss off and give them a bad rep, maybe they'd do something about it.

Hahaha, yeah, I could see that working. Go for it.

BTW, just out of interest, have you ever run your own site? You seem to be a fan of putting private run businesses into the same category as the government...

At 8/13/05 05:01 AM, -idle- wrote:

At 8/12/05 08:34 AM, SpamWarrior wrote: If you could see who voted, and it was only audio artists who could vote, it would stop genre morons 0'ing whole other genres for a laugh as the 0's would soon be returned to them... It would help stop people 0'ing others over personal grudges or political differences. Would in short, take all personal bullshit out of reviewing and leave a more relevant objective view of the MUSIC and not the MUSICIAN.

Please read the following lines very carefully:

Seeing the username of the voter is an invasion of privacy, and it's never going to happen. Ever. I personally wouldn't want the artist to see what score I was giving his work. What if, for example, I wanted to give someone a 0, or a 1, because their audio was absolute shit. OH WAIT I CANT, for fear of the artist in question seeing my low score, and going and giving the same score to all my audio. That is just one scenario which would occur in this crazy, bizzaro world of seeing who cast each individual vote.

Whereas, now, people who make shitty audio can 0 others who make good audio anyway, and thats all well and good? Bollocks to this opinion, NG is corrupt, and run with the crews. This is what this is all about. NG doesnt want to expose how much of a covert influence they have over it, instead of admitting that some are in the crews, and point the crews in a direction. they keep the anonymous 0 voting.

And as for the breach of privacy, since this is a PRIVATELY run site anyway, that PEOPLE SIGN UP FOR, who would take something this PETTY seriously in a court of law?

"Your honor, i shat on Bounc3's work, and NG let him know who did it. Can you please send them to prison please"

Even in lawsuit happy, responsibility-free america, that would get LAUGHED out of court, if it even made it to court at all.

As for 0'in shitty audio, who needs to 0 shit audio, you just dont vote, and 5 the ones that are far better, same overall result.

So, back to the main point. NG charts are OWNED by the crews, the crews do this with NG's blessing, which is why they cannot be bothered revealing the identitys of voters.

Not only that, but the logistics of implementing that system would be a nightmare. If voting isn't annonymous, then it's pretty pointless if you ask me. Something simialr to the reviews in the Flash portal would be handy however, where each track would have a voting score, and a review score (yes, I know it already has an average of the reviews, but maybe put this in a place more obvious to the eye).

Why the fuck is voting pointless if its not anonymous? My only conclusion, see point about flagrant corruption above...

Yeah, and we provide a resource to the flash musicians? Not much chance i know, but if we all threatened to piss off and give them a bad rep, maybe they'd do something about it.

Hahaha, yeah, I could see that working. Go for it.

It WOULD be the most likely scenario to get them to fix it, but they probably still wouldnt.

BTW, just out of interest, have you ever run your own site? You seem to be a fan of putting private run businesses into the same category as the government...

er, what?

Logic - you want visitors to a certain thing, you make people who are regulars want to stay so that the visitors see people that want to stay..., nothing to do with the government or whatever.

I can TELL already that you're a conservative, and a tight-ringed one at that...

If you are reading this topic, then listen to idle.

This HAS been brought up before, and is currently being talked about and worked on, so just be patient.