Do you believe that Russian Hackers are rigging elections and interfering in Western Politics?
Bonus question:
Is this alleged influence stronger than the Medias role, which has also never shown us any proof of these alleged cyber attacks?
Russian Hackers
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To be honest, the Russians don't need to hack jack shit for western democracy to turn into absurd rethoric.
Americans can be dumb enough on there own.
At 5/11/18 03:09 PM, FireFoxxy wrote:At 5/11/18 02:56 PM, Entice wrote: Uhh the claim isn't that election machines were actually hacked, it's that Russian operatives selectively leaked information/spread fake media messages in an attempt to influence the election.I was referring to the machines, which people still continue to claim were hacked believe it or not. It is undeniable that both sides where leaking information to influence the election. It is also more probable that the left wing media has been having more a influence then those supposed Russian operatives. I cannot deny that the administration has some Russian ties, but none of which are proven to have more effect then the lefts banter (if they had any effect at all that is).
I mean if you think that people like Julian Assange are unbiased at this point then just lol
First I heard of that. What I have heard, mostly from the mainstream media who cite government sources, is that Russian groups tried to hack at least 20 state voter databases, but that is as far as they got - which means counter measures are still needed to keep any domestic, or foreign, groups out of them. I have head more concern from the the right, and the current administration, that we need to make it harder for people to vote, because of claims of rampant voter fraud, which they have never been able to prove, while not wanting to do anything about making sure people can't hack into our voter databases. So, far, you seem to be promoting the same narrative as the right, denying Russia, attempts to interfere in our elections by blaming the left, and trying to undermine our entire intelligence community when it convenient.
At 5/11/18 05:50 PM, FireFoxxy wrote: I never doubted attempts on the election meddling. Hell, the US meddles in other countries elections as well. I would be ignorant to deny attempts. However effectiveness is another thing and the bias (Undeniable on both ends) media blows it out of proportion. A few databases where compromised and some information was possibly stolen (I agree, its pretty sad this happens and believe it or not and its also happened before 2016 as well). This does not mean anything for the actual voting process (At the moment no proof shows otherwise). I don't believe that the outcome of 2016 was a result of another country or entities attempt to rig the election. Until there is substantial proof that they have altered the votes (Which there is not), I continue to stand in position to support the narrative.
Again, I'm not hearing any of this, I'm hearing the whole thing about their attempt to promote disinformation, and division in this country, and their attempts to hack into our election system, along with their hacking of the DNC. I'm not sure who's saying that they rigged the election, even though their efforts seemed geared at supporting Trump because of his positive views of Russia and Putin.
Voter fraud is just as real as outside election meddling. They are not mutually exclusive. They both are attempted and should be prevented.
I could point to dozens of intelligence reports, not just from the US, but from other countries who are experiencing similar interference from Russian sponsored groups, and even Trump's own words ( if he hasn't challenged it yet, by claiming he said something else), as support for Russia's interference in the the 2016 election.
But, I see more action from the right about voter fraud; and every investigation (which they have done a lot over this) shows that it's extremely rare, and that it doesn't even afect elections. But, because of voter ID laws, more people are unable to vote because they don't have the right type of ID, or didn't need one for a long time, have to run through hoops to find the money, and time, to apply for the process of getting an state sanctioned ID (in some state, gun permits are just as good as photo ID), and often don't get it in time to vote. And hundreds of thousands of people are disfranchised from voting because of that. Yet, you ask the right about absentee ballots, and they look embarrassed, because their Voter ID laws don't apply to it. Then you look at the other shit the right does,by trying to get rid of early voting, closing polling stations in certain populated areas, and you begin to see a pattern that more people are disfranchised than there is of voter fraud. The whole system is fucked up, and it was designed to be that way.
But out of curiosity, why does election meddling come to be a problem as soon as Trump wins? This stuff isn't new, its just a sad attempt to discredit the election. I'm not saying this because I am a hard right winger, but because I'm tired of the complaining and whining that's been happening.
Because we're at the point where Russian bots can do a lot of damage on Facebook, and other social service sites. Because they like Trump, hate Hillary, because of the sanctions after their interference in Ukraine's civil war. Because they hacked into the DNC and released the e-mails on the Wikileaks that help[ed Trump, by alienating Bernie supporters from voting for Hillary. You take a pick.
Ok guys, it seems like you’re clued up pretty well. Good job.
To clear up a few things. DNC “hacking” and leak was almost definitely Seth Rich - or some other insider we don’t know about. Timestamps debunk any possible hacking theory, unless you expect me to believe really elaborate sophisticated science and tech went into it. So that’s good. Well done for seeing through that fake news.
We definitely meddle in elections and destabilisation of governments. Cuba, prime example. Venezuela are resisting exactly that right now. The list is fairly extensive.
Worth noting that the CIA has a cyber weapon, which can stage a “hack” and then mask it, to look like it came from somewhere else. By leaving clues such as language config logs and false IP, etc.
So if the CIA has that, Israeli Secret Intelligence Service (not ISIS) who are supposedly some of the best in the world: Unit 8200 - who proudly identified the Russian hacking threat to us - they almost definitely have an even more sophisticated and versatile cyber weapon. They can hack self-driving cars and all sorts. They are regarded as the best in the world and nobody wants to talk about the Israeli influence in our politics.
Which brings us to the Media’s involvement in all this. The extended arm of the left wing, throttling us all. Censorship. Primarily serves the left. Censorship of ideas, at least. Censorship of free speech and facts. So by silencing the majorities, they are instigating this confusion and destabilisation very effectively.
At 5/11/18 09:20 PM, AcidX wrote: all conspiracy stuff.
You might want to put on your tin foil hate when you go all out like this. I know Alex Jones, and many Fox News political commentators, would be proud of you, but here you are just going to be made fun of for this.
At 5/11/18 09:26 PM, EdyKel wrote:At 5/11/18 09:20 PM, AcidX wrote: all conspiracy stuff.You might want to put on your tin foil hate when you go all out like this. I know Alex Jones, and many Fox News political commentators, would be proud of you, but here you are just going to be made fun of for this.
What conspiracy stuff now?
- Unit 8200 are real.
- The CIA has cyber weapons.
- The media are censoring people en masse.
- The DNC files were not downloaded, that’s USB transfer speed.
At 5/11/18 09:31 PM, AcidX wrote:At 5/11/18 09:26 PM, EdyKel wrote:What conspiracy stuff now?At 5/11/18 09:20 PM, AcidX wrote: all conspiracy stuff.You might want to put on your tin foil hate when you go all out like this. I know Alex Jones, and many Fox News political commentators, would be proud of you, but here you are just going to be made fun of for this.
Kernels of truth can lead to many directions, when used by themselves, or part of a narrative with other selected facts and interpretations of those facts - without, actual, concrete proof.
- Unit 8200 are real.
And? They are not very good at keeping secrets if they keep leaking out - if half the leaks are actually true. Any one can hack automated cars, it was done for shit's and giggles by a group of american programmers a few years back. But, I would not be surprised if they were a very good group at playing cyber stuff, and backed by a lot of resources. They did hack John Kerry's phone during the negotiations over the Iran deal.
But I fail to see how all this relate to Russian hacking of the DNC, or sending out bots to actually create fake news. And it's no secret that they don't like this country, and have been targeting our power infrastructure, and voter databases, for several years now.
- The CIA has cyber weapons.
And? So do a lot of countries. Russia has been using them on US Forces in Syria. But, again, I fail to see how this relates to Russia cyber warfare on this country.
- The media are censoring people en masse.
Every time I look at an article on Fox news, or some other right leaning sight, they are always omitting certain facts to promote their biased and partisan narrative. Unless you have something definitive, outside of usual partisan nonsense, by blanketing it with censorship, because they don't cover things that are vague, confusing, contradictory, and lack any actual proof, then you are just abusing the word censorship for your own personal narrative.
- The DNC files were not downloaded, that’s USB transfer speed.
I always love the Seth Rich conspiracy. It's always entertaining to watch the fact checkers work overtime with the right trying to downplay Russia's involvement with the e-mails, just to defend Trump's legitimacy as president. The actual fact is that Russia sent fishing e-mails to Podesta, who clicked on it, allowing Russian agents access to his account. I know it's not the most exciting of things, but it's better than some half baked conspiracy that involves a inconvenient death.
At 5/11/18 10:43 PM, EdyKel wrote: part of a narrative with other selected facts and interpretations of those facts - without, actual, concrete proof.
Likewise, back at you. The Media have NEVER EVER show us any proof whatsoever of any Russian hack or Russian interference. No proof. At all. Ever.
- Unit 8200 are real.And? They are not very good at keeping secrets if they keep leaking out
They are not. No. In fact, I wanted to share the documentary about them BUT they've been working real hard to take it down from everywhere. They really really do not want people finding out about them. Which I find really odd as they were so ready to identify a Russian threat for us.
Israel is a horrible military force at the best of times. You're daft if you think Unit 8200 aren't the most ruthless and evil bunch of liars in the secret service industry.
Once again. Let me just highlight the very significant fact that: Unit 8200 are the only ones to 'confirm' that Russian hackers 'exist'. Are you getting that? They, in Israel, monitored our connections for us and saw that Russian's were meddling? Before any of our own secret services could supposedly work that out.
- The CIA has cyber weapons.And? So do a lot of countries. Russia has been using them on US Forces in Syria. But, again, I fail to see how this relates to Russia cyber warfare on this country.
Lol. That's the point. There is little or no Russian cyber warfare, regarding elections and political interference. This is where you're going wrong.
Again. There has never been any actual evidence or proof shown to us of any Russian involvement whatsoever. People like me who actually understand technology and internet.. Mate.. I'm itching for some proof. I would like to believe what they say is truth. But I can't. All they are doing is telling me that it's Russian's. I want hard evidence too.
- The media are censoring people en masse.
Watch this "interview with a Russian Bot"
Then just read that sentence again and slap yourself. Is any bot a human, that you can interview?
Is that man paid by the Kremlin? Was there really a 4,000% increase in Russian bot activity after the Novichok story? Or was there just a 4,000% increase in people realising it's all bullshit??
Outside of Russia, look at the narrative we're fed on Syria. It's a very different story from any on-the-ground journalist or Syrian account that I've watched (but that's a separate thread in itself).
because they don't cover things that are vague, confusing, contradictory, and lack any actual proof, then you are just abusing the word censorship for your own personal narrative.
Once again, watch that video. The fact you can even say that is like a hilarious joke because it's exactly what the media are doing. The media has never given us any proof at all of these claims you make. The people being silenced have more investigation and truth on their side than any of the mainstream media shills have ever given on this entire Russian involvement claim.
- The DNC files were not downloaded, that’s USB transfer speed.I always love the Seth Rich conspiracy.
Ok. The only Russian link to the DNC link is the fact that Seth Rich passed them onto a Russian Lawyer, who then passed them onto wikileaks. That's the only Russian involvement. Which makes sense. If he'd sent them to a Western Lawyer, they could have never seen the light of day.
Again, little or no proof of this phishing scam. Doesn't account for how they accessed the entire server with just his password. Zero proof. One or two emails. Once again, no actual evidence of this Russian footprint. The media has failed repeatedly to show any evidence of an actual hack. All they've done is conflate speculation for fact.
What I'm telling you is factual evidence that it couldn't have been a hack. It is about facts yes. It's about physics. It's about what is physically possible within the realms of science.
DNC files were copied at a speed of 22.6MB/s, a speed virtually impossible to achieve from halfway across the world. Especially in a country whose average download speed is about 7.4MB/s, from a country whose average speed was about 18MB/s.
22.6MB/s is about USB speed and roughly half the speed of a local SSD transfer. It's very fucking fast; a connection would need to be at least 25MB/s on both ends to maintain that level of speed reliably.
The only way Russia could have hacked the DNC at that speed is either: physically being inside the building (easiest and most believable option - which we are not told is what happened).
- OR -
They tunnelled under the DNC, replaced all the internet wiring and built their own data exchange point. They then built and launched a super high technology satellite (better than anything Japan has - leading technological empire of the world) to transfer this data back to Russia at those insanely high speeds. It's just not feasible. If you know anything about how computers and the internet work, it doesn't add up. At all.
This is the only "proof" we have ever been shown that it was a hack...and it's self-contradicting.
Ok. In case you still think Guccifer is a paid Russian hacker. Then there's the attempted murder of a Seth Rich investigator. By a marine, with ties to certain lobbyists.
I'm not saying there are no Russian hackers at all. Every country has hackers. But it's not to the level or even remotely tied to everything the media claims.
> believing in Russian bots and hackers in 2018
At 5/11/18 12:52 PM, Heretic-Anchorite wrote: To be honest, the Russians don't need to hack jack shit for western democracy to turn into absurd rethoric.
Americans can be dumb enough on there own.
Remember, Europe used to be a different matter.
Teacher, goth, communist, cynic, alcoholic, master swordsman, king of shitpoasts.
It's better to die together than to live alone.
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At 5/12/18 03:49 AM, AcidX wrote:At 5/11/18 10:43 PM, EdyKel wrote: part of a narrative with other selected facts and interpretations of those facts - without, actual, concrete proof.Likewise, back at you. The Media have NEVER EVER show us any proof whatsoever of any Russian hack or Russian interference. No proof. At all. Ever.
So, you believe the world is flat, because you can't see it? That religion is true because you can't disprove it.
The Russian hacking has lot more going for it than you can disprove of it. All you have is conspiracy theories that rely on the honesty of strangers who offer you the fantastic, movie action stories, because your at the point in your life you just want to rebel against things, not controlled by the mainstream narratives or stories, while ironically, controlled by the very people you rely on to feed you these conspiracies, who often use them to make money off the gullible, or for political reasons.
They are not. No. In fact, I wanted to share the documentary about them BUT they've been working real hard to take it down from everywhere. They really really do not want people finding out about them. Which I find really odd as they were so ready to identify a Russian threat for us.
Israel is a horrible military force at the best of times. You're daft if you think Unit 8200 aren't the most ruthless and evil bunch of liars in the secret service industry.
Once again. Let me just highlight the very significant fact that: Unit 8200 are the only ones to 'confirm' that Russian hackers 'exist'. Are you getting that? They, in Israel, monitored our connections for us and saw that Russian's were meddling? Before any of our own secret services could supposedly work that out.
Actually, if was Austria that first tipped us off about what Russia was trying to do in 2016 election, which was also backed by the dutch and British intelligence. At that point, We knew that Russia was interested in interfering in our presidential election, by aiding Trump. And you have Social sites that were reporting a lot of activity by Russian bots spreading misinformation in an effort to create division, and mostly support, for Trump. Now, you have the intelligence agencies pointing to a fuck up by the Guccifer 2.0 hacker as the biggest lead to Russia GRU. But you know, I haven't read anything about Israel's involvement in any of this, or that they were the first to point to Guccifer. The only connection I could find was Russia saying that Israel was behind the hacking. So, at this point, it's seems you can be accused of being a pawn of Russia, by promoting their narrative.
Lol. That's the point. There is little or no Russian cyber warfare, regarding elections and political interference. This is where you're going wrong.
Again. There has never been any actual evidence or proof shown to us of any Russian involvement whatsoever. People like me who actually understand technology and internet.. Mate.. I'm itching for some proof. I would like to believe what they say is truth. But I can't. All they are doing is telling me that it's Russian's. I want hard evidence too.
So far, you are all talk, which makes me doubt you know much about technology and the internet. I'm not interested in your ego. You already claimed that Unit 8200 can hack into self driving cars as if it was something great, and I just linked an article that show that anyone who knows how to program and hack can easily do that shit. I also posted an article that shows that Russia, already using cyber warfare in Syria against US forces. And it's pretty much common knowledge that Russia has been trying to attack the US power and water infrastructure. Son, there just so much out there that shows that Russia is quite capable at cyber warfare, with an overabundance of Russian hackers.
Watch this "interview with a Russian Bot"
I've seen, and read, about this stuff before, where posts are mistaken for Russian bots, but there is another means which is being employed to narrow it down, and that is tracking the source. A lot of them are tracked to Russia, itself. The problem here is that the fake news starts in Russia, then picked up by people outside of Russia, which they then become unwittingly bots themselves. It's all pretty straight forward.
By the way, Sky news has a history of faking footage, and paying people to make up news.
Ok. The only Russian link to the DNC link is the fact that Seth Rich passed them onto a Russian Lawyer, who then passed them onto wikileaks. That's the only Russian involvement. Which makes sense. If he'd sent them to a Western Lawyer, they could have never seen the light of day.
You do know that the Seth thing was just fabricated by a far right news site. And this is the actual story.
Again, little or no proof of this phishing scam. Doesn't account for how they accessed the entire server with just his password. Zero proof. One or two emails. Once again, no actual evidence of this Russian footprint. The media has failed repeatedly to show any evidence of an actual hack. All they've done is conflate speculation for fact.
That's because you don't want to believe the actual sources.
What I'm telling you is factual evidence that it couldn't have been a hack. It is about facts yes. It's about physics. It's about what is physically possible within the realms of science.
DNC files were copied at a speed of 22.6MB/s, a speed virtually impossible to achieve from halfway across the world. Especially in a country whose average download speed is about 7.4MB/s, from a country whose average speed was about 18MB/s.
22.6MB/s is about USB speed and roughly half the speed of a local SSD transfer. It's very fucking fast; a connection would need to be at least 25MB/s on both ends to maintain that level of speed reliably.
First, the whole thing is based on the convenient leak of metadata left by hacker on the files - which some people don't want to think couldn't have been changed to mislead people. Or it could have been that it was downloaded to a computer, then downloaded to other computers, which would have changed the metadata. It's all explained here.
At 5/12/18 01:31 PM, EdyKel wrote: So, you believe the world is flat, because you can't see it? That religion is true because you can't disprove it.
No? I've seen amicable proof that the world is round. It could be flat but photo/video evidence and physics (again) prove otherwise to me. Religion. LOL. I do not believe religion is true for a second. Religions all contradict each other; most religions don't acknowledge - or even deny - other religions gods. So if one god exists and one doesn't.. Which is real?
Terrible examples. Try again.
The Russian hacking has lot more going for it than you can disprove of it.
Lets see it? Not just words though, okay? Can you actually do that??
All you have is conspiracy theories that rely on the honesty of strangers who offer you the fantastic, movie action stories, because your at the point in your life you just want to rebel against things,
I'd just like to point out I am way past my teenage adolescence. This isn't about rebellion. This isn't about protest. This isn't juvenile angst. This IS about the truth.
All of us do this for the truth. It's not politically motivated, it's neutral. wikileaks share facts about everyone, not exclusively Western governments. There's not an endgame, it's just about facts and transparency where it's needed.
Also. I'd rather be guilty of conspiracy theory than actual conspiracy. Because that's what's going on. This is an actual conspiracy and actual conspiracy is a criminal offence.
Actually, if was Austria that first tipped us off about what Russia was trying to do in 2016 election, which was also backed by the dutch and British intelligence.
To be fair.. You might be right. I'm probably confusing that with bullshit our British propaganda outlets told us about Brexit and the SCL scandal (<-- Russian hackers btw).
Now, you have the intelligence agencies pointing to a fuck up by the Guccifer 2.0 hacker as the biggest lead to Russia GRU. But you know, I haven't read anything about Israel's involvement in any of this, or that they were the first to point to Guccifer
Yeah. That's what I mean. Unit 8200 are a shady bunch of motherfuckers. One minute they're some dancing Israeli's, proclaiming this and that. The next minute they've disappeared off the face of the Earth. Which, to me, suggests they're hard at work on something.
Also can I point out some hypocrisy here?
I shared an article in my last post, from Guccifer himself. Saying he was not affiliated with the Russian government.
So if you believe otherwise, that actually makes you a conspiracy theorist. Again. Or, do we believe our precious western propaganda outlets over actual individuals now??
The only connection I could find was Russia saying that Israel was behind the hacking. So, at this point, it's seems you can be accused of being a pawn of Russia, by promoting their narrative.
Ohh there it is. I was building up to that punchline. That's my point. That's the whole point of this thread. You're exactly right. By media and government narrative everybody... I'm a Russian bot every one. it's true. I am paid by the Kremlin. I AM A RUSSIAN HACKER. This counts as Russian bot activity. This is "Russian hacking". This is what the media is selling to you as Russian interference. RIGHT HERE.
Apart from it's NOT. It's not funded by Russia, or the Kremlin. It's not a little $250k advertising campaign on facebook. It's THE TRUTH.
You agree that Israel and the CIA has cyber weapons capable of doing that and it's exactly what the Russian's have suggested happened. But... It was definitely Russia, yeah?
"Oh but that's what they'd say if they were covering their backs"
Yeah. So would Unit 8200, if confronted about the same thing.
Check mate.
So far, you are all talk
You're one to talk mate. Where's ANY OF YOUR ACTUAL PROOF?
which makes me doubt you know much about technology and the internet.
I literally explained exactly how the internet works to you in the last post. From server, to data exchange. To satellite. From satellite, to satellite. Back to another data exchange. To you. I even went to trouble of finding out the average speeds for those countries and pointing out that Russian's would have needed to revamp the DNC buildings entire infrastructure to pull off that hack. Although you're correct. I failed to point out that the Russian's would need two of those satellites and another data exchange in Russia, presumably at the Kremlin or a Moscow bunker or whatever the fuck you believe.
I'm not interested in your ego. You already claimed that Unit 8200 can hack into self driving cars as if it was something great, and I just linked an article that show that anyone who knows how to program and hack can easily do that shit.
Unfortunately the documentary is gone. Everywhere. Even off bitchute and shit. It's what they're doing with it and how they can do it that is worrying. If it reappears, I will be making a separate thread about them because they are scary. That's not the only thing they were doing. Far from it.
By the way, Sky news has a history of faking footage, and paying people to make up news.
Yeah no shit. But it's conspiracy theory, when I try to call it out.
You do know that the Seth thing was just fabricated by a far right news site. And this is the actual story.
I don't think Kim Dotcom saying that his friend definitely did the hack and had the files is a far right fabrication to be honest. In fact... Kim Dotcom has been the direct victim of one of these "action movie plots".
Some emails that were leaked are NOT proof. Your little 'debunking of Seth Rich' article is utter BULLSHIT. You know for a fact that the original files metadata won't have changed. So no matter what, the minimum transfer speed is 22.8Mb/s. The only way that metadata can debunk it is if the transfer was even faster. Which is even more impossible, as the article even states that 20mbs is faster than the consumer upload speed. That article didn't actually prove jack shit, it just talked in circles about stuff most people can't understand?
That's because you don't want to believe the actual sources.
No. It's because an email or two is not proof. Especially not when they've panicked to find the handful of emails that remotely and vaguely look like they could be about this. One password does not grant you server-admin level access. I WANT RUSSIAN FOOTPRINTS. I WANT LOG FILES. I WANT IP LOGS. I WANT SERVER ACCESS FILES. EVERYTHING. SHOW ME IT. COME ON!
They CAN'T show you that. Because IF they do... It will reveal that the transfer was definitely made locally.
That's also why the investigation was carried out externally and not through government.
First, the whole thing is based on the convenient leak of metadata left by hacker on the files - which some people don't want to think couldn't have been changed to mislead people. Or it could have been that it was downloaded to a computer, then downloaded to other computers, which would have changed the metadata.
You are literally SO DEEP down this government-funded rabbit hole that you can't even see it from any other angle. So prejudiced towards Russia and absorbed in our own hilarious fantastical stories, which ironically you try to decry me for. Just because I'm skeptical enough to look at it from another angle and trust other worldwide media more than our own local propaganda factories.
It's unfortunate that you're sheepish enough to believe all that corporate funded crap and actively push it out there. You've got some brains about you, son, but you have to think independently. The sooner you realise this is all connected and it is all corrupt and wrong, the better for us all.
At 5/11/18 11:02 AM, AcidX wrote: Do you believe that Russian Hackers are rigging elections and interfering in Western Politics?
no, i do believe they're sewing discord and enjoying the chaos and doubt it creates. i do not believe they steered the 2016 presidential election.
Bonus question:
Is this alleged influence stronger than the Medias role.
not remotely.
"some people who believe they're smart do nothing but talk incessantly. if they didn't, how else would they let you know how smart they are?"
At 5/12/18 03:02 PM, AcidX wrote:At 5/12/18 01:31 PM, EdyKel wrote:No? I've seen amicable proof that the world is round. It could be flat but photo/video evidence and physics (again) prove otherwise to me. Religion. LOL. I do not believe religion is true for a second. Religions all contradict each other; most religions don't acknowledge - or even deny - other religions gods. So if one god exists and one doesn't.. Which is real?
Terrible examples. Try again.
Just using your own words against you, since you are so keen on destroying any all basis of information to stand on to promote your conspiracies.
The Russian hacking has lot more going for it than you can disprove of it.Lets see it? Not just words though, okay? Can you actually do that??
Already did that. You just ignored them to make up a series of contradictory rules to go by.
All you have is conspiracy theories that rely on the honesty of strangers who offer you the fantastic, movie action stories, because your at the point in your life you just want to rebel against things,I'd just like to point out I am way past my teenage adolescence. This isn't about rebellion. This isn't about protest. This isn't juvenile angst. This IS about the truth.
In other words, you are just a pawn of partisan politics, and people who make money off you your gullibility, in an attempt to accuse others for being victims to the same stuff, while failing to realize it yourself - or that I already take that into account.
All of us do this for the truth. It's not politically motivated, it's neutral. wikileaks share facts about everyone, not exclusively Western governments. There's not an endgame, it's just about facts and transparency where it's needed.
Truth is philosophical, and egotistical. I try to stay away from it and just fixate on the facts, and the possible, and probable, outcomes, or conclusion, they may lead to or support. And leaks are a double edge sword, which can lead to exposing corruption, or a tool to hide it by misdirecting you.
Also. I'd rather be guilty of conspiracy theory than actual conspiracy. Because that's what's going on. This is an actual conspiracy and actual conspiracy is a criminal offence.
I don't mind conspiracies as long as they sound reasonable, and not out of fantasy, or mistaken for truth. Distinctions should be made when there is no concrete proof available, which is why much of the media still often says "alleged chemical attacks by the Assad regime",or quote intelligence official as saying "they believe that the Hacks came from Russia". In both cases they are not being stated as facts, but rather more as the leading theory. But is more concrete than what you find from most conspiracy theorist, who often state truth over their theories, without hesitation that they could be wrong.
Yeah. That's what I mean. Unit 8200 are a shady bunch of motherfuckers. One minute they're some dancing Israeli's, proclaiming this and that. The next minute they've disappeared off the face of the Earth. Which, to me, suggests they're hard at work on something.
Again, this is all speculation. Do you believe Russia, who is governed by an oligarchy, with state controlled media, with a former head of the KGB as president, who understands how intelligence networks work, and has dreams of making Russia great again (and has a lot of hackers), and who's country main exports are oil and arms, has less reason than Israel to interfere in the US elections, after the previous Democrat president put sanctions on that country, wouldn't want a candidate try to interfere in that election to get people to vote for a guy who like Putin, and wants a friendlier relationship with them, getting rid of sanction, even though they are allied with Israel's sworn enemy, Iran? You think so greatly of Israel, while so little of Russia?
Ohh there it is. I was building up to that punchline. That's my point. That's the whole point of this thread. You're exactly right. By media and government narrative everybody... I'm a Russian bot every one. it's true. I am paid by the Kremlin. I AM A RUSSIAN HACKER. This counts as Russian bot activity. This is "Russian hacking". This is what the media is selling to you as Russian interference. RIGHT HERE.
But how do you not know you are not a pawn of Russia? This is what you are claiming about people who hold an opposing view from you, because they listen to what you think is an Israel conspiracy, or government propaganda.
By the way, Sky news has a history of faking footage, and paying people to make up news.Yeah no shit. But it's conspiracy theory, when I try to call it out.
You do know that the Seth thing was just fabricated by a far right news site. And this is the actual story.I don't think Kim Dotcom saying that his friend definitely did the hack and had the files is a far right fabrication to be honest. In fact... Kim Dotcom has been the direct victim of one of these "action movie plots".
This is the tricky path you chose to follow, where you are accusing the media of censuring, and driving fake narratives, while relying on it when their narrative support your own.
Some emails that were leaked are NOT proof. Your little 'debunking of Seth Rich' article is utter BULLSHIT. You know for a fact that the original files metadata won't have changed. So no matter what, the minimum transfer speed is 22.8Mb/s. The only way that metadata can debunk it is if the transfer was even faster. Which is even more impossible, as the article even states that 20mbs is faster than the consumer upload speed. That article didn't actually prove jack shit, it just talked in circles about stuff most people can't understand?
Again, you don't have anything to support your conspiracy about Seth Rich, but a partisan narrative that was faked, while dismissing an article that offered an easily, and plausible alternative, for the download speeds. It all tears down your conspiracy, leaving you with nothing to stand on, but anger.
First, the whole thing is based on the convenient leak of metadata left by hacker on the files - which some people don't want to think couldn't have been changed to mislead people. Or it could have been that it was downloaded to a computer, then downloaded to other computers, which would have changed the metadata.You are literally SO DEEP down this government-funded rabbit hole that you can't even see it from any other angle. So prejudiced towards Russia and absorbed in our own hilarious fantastical stories, which ironically you try to decry me for. Just because I'm skeptical enough to look at it from another angle and trust other worldwide media more than our own local propaganda factories.
It's unfortunate that you're sheepish enough to believe all that corporate funded crap and actively push it out there. You've got some brains about you, son, but you have to think independently. The sooner you realise this is all connected and it is all corrupt and wrong, the better for us all.
I addressed the reason, and why, Russia would do this stuff, and their capabilities for it, but you are still stuck in your rabbit hole, unable to explain why and how Israel would do this stuff, relying on the claims that they have the capabilities and are evil, which is as much evidence as any religion relies on to support their views.
Oh? LOL
Why and how? Is that what we're stuck on. You should have said.
Israel. With their wall, closed borders and geopolitics.
Right the pocket of the Democratic party at that point in time.
Once the polls came in and it looked like they were gonna lose, they needed a spin story. A fantastical.. Oh.. A hack! Election rigging. YES!!!
They literally knew if all their corruption, all their lies and any of this got out... They would be done for. Finished forever. Not just the psychological defeat for all their supporters, which is why this fantastical fake news exists. They would literally be defeated, never to return. This level of scandal being exposed is the end of their profiteering crime syndicate for good.
Again. Kim Dotcom isn't a liar. Or far-right for that matter. The mans a fucking hacking genius, so if I trust anyone about this.. I trust him.
Is this thread meant for grown-ups?
I’ve just seen three colourful pictures that have very little to do with the posts to which they’re attached.
At 5/13/18 06:49 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote: Is this thread meant for grown-ups?
I’ve just seen three colourful pictures that have very little to do with the posts to which they’re attached.
I tire of them dull endless text threads, where people feel the need to maximise the character limit in every post.
Also these colourful pictures are highly relevant. This is all connected. This Russian Hacker thing isn't an isolated one-off issue, like they want you to believe. That's why Russia pop up any time something bad happens or anytime they need to push a regime. See: Skripal Salisbury incident.
Democrats are the only ones making these claims. Republicans, wikileaks and Russia all say no. The whole Russia narrative is to distract from the Democrats (and Conservative in the UK) own failings and corruptions.
I'm mostly wondering if Democrats are for grown-ups, at this point. With all their imagination.
At 5/13/18 08:54 AM, AcidX wrote: Also these colourful pictures are highly relevant. This is all connected. This Russian Hacker thing isn't an isolated one-off issue, like they want you to believe. That's why Russia pop up any time something bad happens or anytime they need to push a regime. See: Skripal Salisbury incident.
Out of interest, what’s your take on the Skripal incident? Who’s responsible?
EDIT: I prob shouldn’t ask as it’s another topic, but you’ve aroused my interest with the context in this post.
At 5/13/18 08:54 AM, AcidX wrote: The whole Russia narrative is to distract from the Democrats (and Conservative in the UK) own failings and corruptions.
I'm mostly wondering if Democrats are for grown-ups, at this point. With all their imagination.
agree.
we'll see if anything comes of it, the investigations. but as is, very much looks like a distraction and a scapegoat for corruption and inadequacies. the only thing more mind blowing than the dnc's/hilary's actions during the campaign is the willingness to accept it and brush under the rug.
"some people who believe they're smart do nothing but talk incessantly. if they didn't, how else would they let you know how smart they are?"
At 5/13/18 12:11 AM, AcidX wrote: Oh? LOL
Why and how? Is that what we're stuck on. You should have said.
Israel. With their wall, closed borders and geopolitics.
Right the pocket of the Democratic party at that point in time.
Actually, Democrats supported the Iran nuclear deal that Israel was so against, and Sheldon Anderson, who was a huge Israel supporter, gave over 30 million to the Trump campaign. Even the PM of Israel, Benjamin Netanyu, was invited to speak by the Republican in the Republican controlled, in opposition to the Iran deal.
Once the polls came in and it looked like they were gonna lose, they needed a spin story. A fantastical.. Oh.. A hack! Election rigging. YES!!!
Again, Clinton was in the lead in the polls leading up to election day, and everyone thought that she would win, including the Trump campaign, which is why Trump constantly accused the system of being rigged against him.
They literally knew if all their corruption, all their lies and any of this got out... They would be done for. Finished forever. Not just the psychological defeat for all their supporters, which is why this fantastical fake news exists. They would literally be defeated, never to return. This level of scandal being exposed is the end of their profiteering crime syndicate for good.
Again, Russian interference happened before the election, and was widely circulated, but everyone still thought that Hillary would win.
Again. Kim Dotcom isn't a liar. Or far-right for that matter. The mans a fucking hacking genius, so if I trust anyone about this.. I trust him.
Then you are gullible. I don't trust anyone on the net.
So far, you keep striking out. There is more proof that Israel was supporting Republicans, because they shared similar views over the Iran deal, and other middle east policies, than Democrats. And Israel is currently controlled by far righters.
The rest of your nonsense is just blanket corruption, with no actual details, or proof.
At 5/13/18 09:35 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:At 5/13/18 08:54 AM, AcidX wrote: Also these colourful pictures are highly relevant. This is all connected. This Russian Hacker thing isn't an isolated one-off issue, like they want you to believe. That's why Russia pop up any time something bad happens or anytime they need to push a regime. See: Skripal Salisbury incident.Out of interest, what’s your take on the Skripal incident? Who’s responsible?
EDIT: I prob shouldn’t ask as it’s another topic, but you’ve aroused my interest with the context in this post.
He's a conspiracy theorist. Believes in crisis actors, and in Zionist plots. He doesn't beleive the Russian were involved in the 2016 election, just Israel.
At 5/13/18 09:35 AM, TurkeyOnAStick wrote:At 5/13/18 08:54 AM, AcidX wrote: Also these colourful pictures are highly relevant. This is all connected. This Russian Hacker thing isn't an isolated one-off issue, like they want you to believe. That's why Russia pop up any time something bad happens or anytime they need to push a regime. See: Skripal Salisbury incident.Out of interest, what’s your take on the Skripal incident? Who’s responsible?
EDIT: I prob shouldn’t ask as it’s another topic, but you’ve aroused my interest with the context in this post.
The Skripal incident is the same fucking story.
It's a lot of watching but the UK Column have done really great extensive research into this from day one.
They're not pointing fingers or saying who did it. But they and just about everyone I know agrees that it is not what we were told.
We are told:
> The Skripal's were poisoned with Novichok.
> First it was a spray. Then it was a liquid. Then it was on the house door, a park bench and their car. Then it was supposedly applied to their cars ventilation10 system and I've lost interest.
> After being poisoned, they then went and ate a meal.
> About 3 hours after the initial dosage, they are found on a park bench.
> Carted off to hospital. IMMEDIATELY May is blaming Russia. Before any investigation. Before anything at all.
> But it's ok, you can wipe Novichok up with a common baby wipe and only need to double bag any dry-clean only clothes.
I could go on but there's enough.
Now here's the facts. It's not conspiracy theory. This is the reality:
> Novichok kills in minutes. That's the entire purpose of Novichok. It's a deadly nerve agent. It's not like you can fuck up the potency and water it down, to the point where it doesn't kill or leave lasting side effects (well you could, with any substance, but what would be the point?). It's a god damn fucking poison.
> So, we'll assume it "was a liquid". Ok. Explain to me how the police man who attended the scene also got infected by said liquid? He wasn't in their restaurant. He didn't go in their car. ??? (If you going to claim contamination then it's a fucking good job the Skripal's didn't: pay for the meal, cough at all or touch anybody else then isn't it)
> Staff at the Salisbury hospital who treated the Skripal's have said that "It was nothing out of the ordinary", no special protocol or procedures (I'm assuming from after they were initially rushed in).
> Staff from the hospital have also said that they were treated for Fentanyl overdoses. Fentanyl is a nasty concentrated substitute for heroin which can kill easily.
> A sample was eventually sent off to the OPCW lab for testing.
> We were not allowed to see the report or conclusion of their findings. The only official word from them is that the substance contained BZ. A NATO poison btw. There is possible reason for this; it's been concluded that they sometimes slip something in deliberately - to make sure the lab does it's job properly. Still. The lab has never said Novichok at all. Only our media and governments.
If you want more on the reality of this story, I suggest you check out these two videos. They're each just under and hour long so... Make sure you have some time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwbL89Vhcrk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6cePLMxk8
ZERO proof. Just the exact same story with the Russian Hackers.
Whom are also equally present in the British media and supposedly inciting unpopular opinions like mine.
The day this happened.. We had May running off to France to discuss some boiling frogs with Macron.
She pointed to Russia before the day was up. With... Nothing. No basis for these claims. Just this name Novichok, plucked out of nowhere.
If you would like further reading and viewing on the current state of UK politics, see my post here:
https://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1430230#bbspost26187245_post_text
At 5/13/18 12:17 PM, EdyKel wrote: Democrats supported the Iran nuclear deal that Israel was so against, and Sheldon Anderson, who was a huge Israel supporter, gave over 30 million to the Trump campaign
I know. It's not like they're two sides of the same coin or anything is it. It's not like Israel wasn't supporting them both ?
By in their pocket. I meant literally at their disposal. In the sense Obama could essentially go "we need this doing for our campaign". Not lobbying or investment. Although there's plenty of Israeli investment going on in all of our politics. Which again, is why it's so fucking worrying that nobody is talking about this. When Israel aligns with everything people hate about Trump. They're intolerant. They literally have a wall. Their borders are closed and they physically deport refugees - which is utter hypocrisy as they are slap bang in the middle of this conflict.
Benjamin Netanyu, was invited to speak by the Republican in the Republican controlled, in opposition to the Iran deal.
Lol. Remember all that "proof" that Netanyahu showed us the other day?
Haha that was funny. I thought it was a sale pitch for some new storage device at first.
Again, Clinton was in the lead in the polls leading up to election day, and everyone thought that she would win, including the Trump campaign, which is why Trump constantly accused the system of being rigged against him.
Yeah. She was just so certain of those projections wasn't she. So out of touch with everything. What did she expect, really? Oh right. Russia did it. Silly me.
Again, Russian interference happened before the election, and was widely circulated, but everyone still thought that Hillary would win.
Yes. We know. There was a whole Cambridge Analytica Scandal about this.
Which also revealed how Obama datamined in the exactsame way. But that's fine? That's not Israel or Russia when Obama does it? Phew.
Then you are gullible. I don't trust anyone on the net.
See. I told you you're a conspiracy theorist. Would you like a tinfoil fedora?
If you can trust anyone on the internet.. It's probably Kim Dotcom tbh. He has a lot of credibility. Man has been smeared and abused more than Jeremy Corbyn. Especially on these issues.
Luckily. This untrusting philosophy you've taught me works both ways... Because I likewise don't trust a single damn word from those giant government-funded corporations with zero journalism and no support for independent research. Especially not any of these online articles you link me with no server logs or IP logs or any actual data. Double standards are a funny thing, aren't they.
So far, you keep striking out. There is more proof that Israel was supporting Republicans, because they shared similar views over the Iran deal, and other middle east policies, than Democrats. And Israel is currently controlled by far righters.
So.. Did the Israeli's hack the election now? or...???
????????????????????
??????
He's a conspiracy theorist. Believes in crisis actors, and in Zionist plots. He doesn't beleive the Russian were involved in the 2016 election, just Israel.
God you're witty you, aren't ya. I haven't even said it was Israel. Just speculated and said it was more likely, given what we know and what has been said. No, if anything I think it was the CIA. Or just... Nothing actually happened. Seth Rich leaked some shit. There was a huge panic. But there was little or no more hacking or meddling than any other election. Which.. My opinion is fixed, until I see hard evidence supporting either way. That's the most concrete thing there is to go on in all of this. Kim Dotcom's evidence and case on this being ignored/denied speaks volumes too. They didn't even look at it. Is that fair? I suppose so...We don't look at chemical nerve agents before determining what they are either.
At 5/13/18 02:34 PM, AcidX wrote:At 5/13/18 12:17 PM, EdyKel wrote: Benjamin Netanyu, was invited to speak by the Republican in the Republican controlled, in opposition to the Iran deal.Lol. Remember all that "proof" that Netanyahu showed us the other day?
Haha that was funny. I thought it was a sale pitch for some new storage device at first.
Which the Republicans believed, mostly Trump, because it was aimed at him. But again, you were talking about Democrats being in the pockets of Israel.
Again, Clinton was in the lead in the polls leading up to election day, and everyone thought that she would win, including the Trump campaign, which is why Trump constantly accused the system of being rigged against him.Yeah. She was just so certain of those projections wasn't she. So out of touch with everything. What did she expect, really? Oh right. Russia did it. Silly me.
I'm still trying to follow your confusing argument about Israel in all this.
Again, Russian interference happened before the election, and was widely circulated, but everyone still thought that Hillary would win.Yes. We know. There was a whole Cambridge Analytica Scandal about this.
Which also revealed how Obama datamined in the exactsame way. But that's fine? That's not Israel or Russia when Obama does it? Phew.
I think you might want to get your story straight. I'm having a hard time following your rantings.
Then you are gullible. I don't trust anyone on the net.See. I told you you're a conspiracy theorist. Would you like a tinfoil fedora?
If you can trust anyone on the internet.. It's probably Kim Dotcom tbh. He has a lot of credibility. Man has been smeared and abused more than Jeremy Corbyn. Especially on these issues.
I have no clue what internet messiah you are talking about.
Luckily. This untrusting philosophy you've taught me works both ways... Because I likewise don't trust a single damn word from those giant government-funded corporations with zero journalism and no support for independent research. Especially not any of these online articles you link me with no server logs or IP logs or any actual data. Double standards are a funny thing, aren't they.
I just find it funny that you are more inclined to believe other countries, and strangers on the internet, than your own home country. It must be some stage of rebellion for kids or something. I don't know.
So far, you keep striking out. There is more proof that Israel was supporting Republicans, because they shared similar views over the Iran deal, and other middle east policies, than Democrats. And Israel is currently controlled by far righters.So.. Did the Israeli's hack the election now? or...???
????????????????????
??????
You are the one who kept bringing up Israel, and made a confusing rambling about their role in it. I've just been pointing out basic facts to counter what I could understand in your confusing arguments
At 5/13/18 02:51 PM, EdyKel wrote: I think you might want to get your story straight. I'm have a hard time following your rantings.
What? You don't know that Obama data mined too? jfc you should look into that before you denounce Trump for it.
I have no clue what internet messiah you are talking about.
You are severely misinformed. He's been around from day.
Ever use megaupload when that was going?
I just find it funny that you are more inclined to believe other countries, and strangers on the internet
Most of these journalists I'm linking here are all British or Western and have been suppressed from mainstream media. That is why they end up on Foreign media.
It must be some stage of rebellion for kids or something. I don't know.
I'm nearly 30.
You are the one who kept bringing up Israel, and made a confusing rambling about their role in it.
I was just pointing our Israel's general role in all of our politics and the fact that their cyber warfare team are the undisputed best in the world. Also that they have been "reliable" sources of intel for our delightful government here in Britain.
At 5/13/18 02:59 PM, AcidX wrote:At 5/13/18 02:51 PM, EdyKel wrote: I think you might want to get your story straight. I'm have a hard time following your rantings.What? You don't know that Obama data mined too? jfc you should look into that before you denounce Trump for it.
What? When Did I denounce Trump for it? What does this have to do with Russian hacking in the 2016 election?
And you are referring to the NSA, which the program was started under Bush, went up and own under Obama, then kicked into high gear under Trump. So, what was the point of this again....
I have no clue what internet messiah you are talking about.You are severely misinformed. He's been around from day.
Ever use megaupload when that was going?
Nope. I don't use shady sites.
I just find it funny that you are more inclined to believe other countries, and strangers on the internetMost of these journalists I'm linking here are all British or Western and have been suppressed from mainstream media. That is why they end up on Foreign media.
Huh? This has absolutely nothing to do with what I just said. All you are telling me is that if the the media reports what the government says then that is a form of suppression.... While you trust what some stranger on the internet tells you, or foreign country like Russia, where the media is state run, and has to say exactly what that government tells them to say, where opposing views are basically outlawed? You are not helping your argument any.
It must be some stage of rebellion for kids or something. I don't know.I'm nearly 30.
Sorry to hear that.
You are the one who kept bringing up Israel, and made a confusing rambling about their role in it.I was just pointing our Israel's general role in all of our politics and the fact that their cyber warfare team are the undisputed best in the world. Also that they have been "reliable" sources of intel for our delightful government here in Britain.
What you are saying is that they, Israel, control our politics, using whatever methods to accomplish it, without providing any actual facts to support that claim, other than generalizations. You rely on assumptions, and conjecture, to create this all purpose boogeyman with Israel, to undermine Russia's meddling potential in US, and western countries, elections, simply because you want to believe that it's a government conspiracy to undermine divisive candidates you like. That's pretty much all there is to this.
I pointed out that Russia is quite cable, probably more so than Israel in certain areas. They have the reason, and the capabilities, to do so. On the other hand, with Israel... You have a confusing mess. I can understand your argument that you think that Russia is being used by the sore losers, and the governments, as a bogeyman, to protect the establishment, but ignoring certain facts, and ignoring Russia determination and capabilities, only makes you as sheepish as the the people you think are being led around by this whole thing.
At 5/13/18 03:56 PM, EdyKel wrote:At 5/13/18 02:59 PM, AcidX wrote:What? When Did I denounce Trump for it? What does this have to do with Russian hacking in the 2016 election?At 5/13/18 02:51 PM, EdyKel wrote: I think you might want to get your story straight. I'm have a hard time following your rantings.What? You don't know that Obama data mined too? jfc you should look into that before you denounce Trump for it.
And you are referring to the NSA, which the program was started under Bush, went up and own under Obama, then kicked into high gear under Trump. So, what was the point of this again....
Nope. I don't use shady sites.I have no clue what internet messiah you are talking about.You are severely misinformed. He's been around from day.
Ever use megaupload when that was going?
Fair enough. Well, he's behind that and many other things. Began his career as one of most prolific hackers and then branched into cyber security.
Of course, once he started to support and back wikileaks.. His mansion was illegally raided and all his assets seized. Before you decry me on some conspiracy here. These are his own words and he is cleared of all the main charges against him now. You'll struggle to hear about this massive patchy legal case anywhere on mainstream media, since the initial hollywood-style raid.
Check out Kim Dotcom: Caught in the Web if you want to know more. It's a very well produced documentary and all absolutely fascinating. No Russians either!
Huh? This has absolutely nothing to do with what I just said. All you are telling me is that if the the media reports what the government says then that is a form of suppression....
No you've got confused there. I'm saying that the media doesn't let these British journalists on to our own channels anymore. Like, at all.
If you want to talk about whistleblowers in a positive light. If you want to call out any story against Russia. If you want to openly support Trump's controversial policies that won him the election. Na mate. Can't do it.
These journalists DO TRY. They approach the media organisations with their stories and independant research to back it all up. Real journalism, from on-the-ground reports. and they get turned away. They want to get their story out somewhere. What are their options??
If you're a freelance journalist, that's your life.
The BBC IS state run. The mainstream media in any country is state run to some degree. That's why conflicting narrative like this gets judged and frowned upon even when it's true. You know, at least 80% of people said I was a loon for saying "Oh Facebook sells all your data, even your photos!" 5 years ago. Now look. Ironically, that opposing views being outlawed scenario is exactly where we are headed. See: Count Dankula. Anyone speaking out about immigration. Political prisoners: Melanie Shaw. Julian Assange. Even fucking Nasim Sabz ffs.
It's not your weird interpretation where the media is an open platform and journalists just have free reign to write about whatever the fuck.
Also I'd like to point out that.. Really.. So far... You're about the only person to really be backing the mainstream media narrative. In this whole thread, so far. The only one here, at this point.. Who truly believes it all.
Israel is a whole separate thing on it's own. The point was Israeli Defence Force Unit 8200 are some shady bastards, who do shit like hack guided missiles and drones for shits and giggles. Real dirty illegal cyber crimes.
I would not accept intel from them for one second. No way. They are dark, evil.
Let me ask you a rational question.
If Russian Hacking is such a real problem...
Why aren't we hacking the Russian elections in equally successful manners?
Putin the bogeyman just got in for his fourth term. We don't seem to be doing anything about that?
At 5/13/18 04:28 PM, AcidX wrote:At 5/13/18 03:56 PM, EdyKel wrote:Fair enough. Well, he's behind that and many other things. Began his career as one of most prolific hackers and then branched into cyber security.At 5/13/18 02:59 PM, AcidX wrote:What? When Did I denounce Trump for it? What does this have to do with Russian hacking in the 2016 election?At 5/13/18 02:51 PM, EdyKel wrote: I think you might want to get your story straight. I'm have a hard time following your rantings.What? You don't know that Obama data mined too? jfc you should look into that before you denounce Trump for it.
And you are referring to the NSA, which the program was started under Bush, went up and own under Obama, then kicked into high gear under Trump. So, what was the point of this again....
Nope. I don't use shady sites.I have no clue what internet messiah you are talking about.You are severely misinformed. He's been around from day.
Ever use megaupload when that was going?
Of course, once he started to support and back wikileaks.. His mansion was illegally raided and all his assets seized. Before you decry me on some conspiracy here. These are his own words and he is cleared of all the main charges against him now. You'll struggle to hear about this massive patchy legal case anywhere on mainstream media, since the initial hollywood-style raid.
Check out Kim Dotcom: Caught in the Web if you want to know more. It's a very well produced documentary and all absolutely fascinating. No Russians either!
I remember hearing something about that a long time ago, where people would use his site to illegally download copyrighted material for free, and he was getting rich from it. He also changed his name to dotcom. That as much as I remember after you jogged my memory. I'm not surprised he would support Russia propaganda, and attack western countries, because the later is going after him for the illegal stuff he does.... A very apparent bias, and reason, for his hatred of the West.
Looking further into this, a New Zealand Court recently said that he could be extradited to the US for the charges against him, which seems like he's trying to appeal, and double down on his rhetoric against the US. Reading further, the guy keeps moving around, and getting into trouble with the local authority.... The guy is corupt, and devious, and weird... no wonder why you like him.
Huh? This has absolutely nothing to do with what I just said. All you are telling me is that if the the media reports what the government says then that is a form of suppression....
In the US, we don't have state run media, though it often feels like FOX news runs the Trump admin. But we have corporations that own the news, which is often divided between, left, right, and mainstream, who are often at odds with each other, and over the interpretation of the news, either for or against government, depending on the political party and the side they support. In a way it keeps things honest by giving you different perspectives, and counter arguments to each other, while also dividing people.
If you want to see what a state run media would look like if it was run by a corporation, here it is. The company is called Sinclair, and they own hundreds of local affiliated broadcast news station, with a conservative leaning..
The BBC is a corporate owned news site. While they do have to follow strict government regulation on how to operate, they have the freedom to criticize it's own government, and the government does not dictate what it reports on, as long as it stays somewhat neutral - basically, as long it doesn't have the same extremes as US media.
In Russia, most of what is published, or reported on, has to go through government to be approved, and it can't be critical of it, with a lot of it be dictated by government officials themselves.
Also I'd like to point out that.. Really.. So far... You're about the only person to really be backing the mainstream media narrative. In this whole thread, so far. The only one here, at this point.. Who truly believes it all.
Because I am a moderate. I don't follow left, or right, and I don't like playing that game that people often use to dictate what each side should mean. I don't trust the government, and I certainly don't trust people, especially on the internet. I choose and pick what I think sounds reasonable, and realistic... And I am deeply aware of the propaganda being played by various countries, and if I have to choose one, I rather choose the one in the country I live in, with certain reservations. Everything is case by case with me, I don't like to use vast generalizations which could bite me in the ass by making a huge fucking brainwashed hypocrite. And Just because I hear a story that relays what my government may think, does not always mean I trust what is being said by the government, or other news stories from the media. At the end of the day, the media just delivers the news, how you interpret it, how you think about it, whether you agree with it or not, is up to you. They are, basically, a business, in most countries, with many having their own political ideas, and beliefs on what well sell and atract people to their site, either for profit,or for political direction.
Then I come across people like you.... "Oh the government is bad, they lie to me, I can't trust them. The media is in on it. I don't want to be a sheep! I better trust this guy on the internet, and another country, who tell me not to be a sheep" And these people don't realize that they are sheep, who just are unaware that they are being used by other people, or governments, for their own ends. If you haven't figured it out by now, people have their own individual perspective and views, without the need for a government entity to tell them those things,while promoting their views that benefit themselves, or their company, or site. But not everything is a fucking conspiracy, or untrue, where you have to automatically side against it .. It's true there a lot of speculation, and false news, out there, but a lot of it is just perspective. You can't take an absolute stance about the whole thing, because you end up being a victim of your on absolutism, constantly making up excuse over the hundreds of holes that are poked into it , and doubling down on it, making you go further down the rabbit hole.
Israel is a whole separate thing on it's own. The point was Israeli Defence Force Unit 8200 are some shady bastards, who do shit like hack guided missiles and drones for shits and giggles. Real dirty illegal cyber crimes.
I would not accept intel from them for one second. No way. They are dark, evil.
I don't Trust Israel either, and previous world leaders didn't either. Now, we have Trump, and he's already down the rabbit hole, doing everything that Israel wants - in part, because his his biggest backer, Sheldon Adelson, and Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. I'm also currently in a debate in the "Iran deal" topic with an Israeli who is playing the victim card.
Let me ask you a rational question.
If Russian Hacking is such a real problem...
Why aren't we hacking the Russian elections in equally successful manners?
Highly controlled internet and media, and an archaic voting system that relies on paper and voting boxes. It makes hacking them very difficult. One of the downfalls of an open net.
Putin the bogeyman just got in for his fourth term. We don't seem to be doing anything about that?
Not much can be done, other than some sanctions. And Putin knows it. The West relies on his oil, so he holds a lot of power over them.
More fool you tbh
Keep telling yourself those lies. Lol BBC is BIASED as FUCK. They haven’t ever once actually said (on their main news channels) that the Skripal’s poisoning might not have been novichok. They haven’t mentioned a single thing about the OPCW saying it was BZ. It’s like this in every case. Which is bad because we go to war and people die over this shit. These unfounded claims with zero proof.. cost lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxRiG8vRRBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4I5u-zG6Z4
These people are proud British patriots. Forced onto RT because they aren’t parroting the story we’re told.
Again, look up political prisoners.
It’s not just a news site either? It’s an entire entertainment company.. in Britain we have like six BBC channels and then six+ BBC radio stations. They all feed the same shit. It’s literally RT for Britain only 10x worse. Go find me a positive article about Brexit from last year onwards. Go find me an article realistically criticising Sadiq Kahn’s weak efforts as London’s new mayor (and not just pointing it out, I mean breaking it down properly). Find me an article form post-2014 that says anything positive about wikileaks, Edward snowden or any whistleblower. You won’t find these things. So yeah. Journalists do have the right to speak freely, as long as it’s about whatever agenda the BBC are pushing. Which is ALWAYS anti-Russia, anti-communist pro-establishment fearmongering bullcrap based on unfounded evidence. It’s the same for The Guardian, The Telegraph and all the major news publications here. Yeah, they have a bit more freedom. But the articles I’m talking about are never gonna make headlines in these newspapers. They’re pushed to a little column next to a load of ads, so people don’t read them unless they’re looking for them.
Kim Dotcom is not backing Russian propaganda. Wikileaks isnt fucking Russian propaganda. Julian Assange may be biased, you would be if you’d been in six years arbitrary detention, but wikileaks isn’t just Julian Assange. The man has had his internet cut off since January. Massive violation of his human rights, he can’t even see or speak to his family online. He has health problems from being indoors for over six years... but still, wikileaks are putting out content. It’s neutral. They share facts about all governments. It’s not about Assange and isn’t politically aligned. It’s just that most the leaks they have are damning proof of corruption. I’d also like to point out that your government has a dedicated team of 300+ people solely focused on bringing down wikileaks. Including smear campaigns and articles that you believe.
Also, Dotcom has been fighting extradition for over five years. The raid on his property was the FBI operating illegally on foreign soil, with military force. He basically won the main charges which is why he’s just moved the fuck away from NZ. I would to, if they let that happen to me and my family. You’re reading the western articles which do nothing but slander him. That’s what I mean, all them mainstream articles you’ve read will have painted him as a demon because yeah.. he’s always been like “fuck this establishment, power to the people”. It’s not a positive message for them at all. When he launched MegaBox, the music industry panicked. That was a legit paid service, which is why they panicked. I suggest you actually watch that documentary, or these videos below and actually listen to the guy himself. Once again, you’re believing sensational headlines over actual individuals themselves. He’s smart, knowledgeable and also a moderate. Just a nice guy. Maybe a bit larger than life, eccentric. Yeah..his site may have hosted illegal shit. That was up to his users. He believes in encryption and privacy so he wouldn’t moderate content unless it was reported. That’s how most internet sites work, which aren’t strong-armed by propaganda machines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaJNRCeuNR4&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2GEYS7Xvec
Whistleblowing is not a crime when the information is of public interest
At 5/14/18 05:03 AM, AcidX wrote: More fool you tbh
Keep telling yourself those lies. Lol BBC is BIASED as FUCK. They haven’t ever once actually said (on their main news channels) that the Skripal’s poisoning might not have been novichok. They haven’t mentioned a single thing about the OPCW saying it was BZ. It’s like this in every case. Which is bad because we go to war and people die over this shit. These unfounded claims with zero proof.. cost lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxRiG8vRRBk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4I5u-zG6Z4
These people are proud British patriots. Forced onto RT because they aren’t parroting the story we’re told.
You argued that the BBC was state run, and I pointed out they weren't. I also said that they have to stay somewhat neutral. Doesn't mean they are not biased, but they are no where nears as biased as the liberal, conservative media in the US.
And of course RT is a Russian propaganda channel, which easily finds discontent people - if they are not paid actors- who will help promote a narrative that the west, and the US are the bad guys, while Russia is always the victims. That is what state propaganda does, it promotes one country over others, by making some things seem a lot worse in a country than they really are, while downplaying terrible things about their own government. This is just basic propaganda 101.
It’s not just a news site either? It’s an entire entertainment company.. in Britain we have like six BBC channels and then six+ BBC radio stations. They all feed the same shit. It’s literally RT for Britain only 10x worse. Go find me a positive article about Brexit from last year onwards. Go find me an article realistically criticising Sadiq Kahn’s weak efforts as London’s new mayor (and not just pointing it out, I mean breaking it down properly). Find me an article form post-2014 that says anything positive about wikileaks, Edward snowden or any whistleblower. You won’t find these things. So yeah. Journalists do have the right to speak freely, as long as it’s about whatever agenda the BBC are pushing. Which is ALWAYS anti-Russia, anti-communist pro-establishment fearmongering bullcrap based on unfounded evidence. It’s the same for The Guardian, The Telegraph and all the major news publications here. Yeah, they have a bit more freedom. But the articles I’m talking about are never gonna make headlines in these newspapers. They’re pushed to a little column next to a load of ads, so people don’t read them unless they’re looking for them.
The fact that the UK allows RT to run in their country shows that it open to critical views of it, unlike Russia, which bars all western news media because they do not allow any criticism of the government. You have more freedom of choice in the UK, and in many other Western countries, than in Russia, because you have access to other news channels, such Sky News, which tends to the right, Al Jazeera, and others, which don't tend to the center left, or tow the Israel narrative.
The BBC may be the largest in the UK, but here, it's Fox news, and they are just pure far right propaganda, promoting speculations and conspiracy theories, and using small incidents to make huge scandals out of them, and millions of people throughout the country watch them. My parents, when I go over to their house, are standard conservatives, and reliable Republicans, my dad even voted for Trump, but they don't Watch fox News, because it's even too much for them. They actually enjoy watching BBC world News, because it's tame in comparison to the other News networks. They mainstream media, like the BBC, do tend to be slightly to the left, but in comparison to the other news sites than pander to liberals, or conservatives, it come off as moderate.
Kim Dotcom is not backing Russian propaganda. Wikileaks isnt fucking Russian propaganda. Julian Assange may be biased, you would be if you’d been in six years arbitrary detention, but wikileaks isn’t just Julian Assange. The man has had his internet cut off since January. Massive violation of his human rights, he can’t even see or speak to his family online. He has health problems from being indoors for over six years... but still, wikileaks are putting out content. It’s neutral. They share facts about all governments. It’s not about Assange and isn’t politically aligned. It’s just that most the leaks they have are damning proof of corruption. I’d also like to point out that your government has a dedicated team of 300+ people solely focused on bringing down wikileaks. Including smear campaigns and articles that you believe.
Sure he is backing Russian propaganda, and so is Wikileaks. Both Dotcom, and Assange, both have bias against western nations, because they both are being sought after by them - and Assange is being very secretive about who is funding him.. And they rarely, if ever, say anything critical of Russia, or releases similar leaks of such magnitude against them. It's why they are so adamant that Russia was not involved in hacking, or interfering, in Western elections. Edward Snowden, on the other hand, is inclined to believe that Russia had a hand in the hacking of the DNC server, by saying it's something they would do. But from the other two it's the Russian narrative all the way. And Dotcom claims a lot of shit, makes it up, while providing no proof - just like his so called proof he has that Seth Rich stole the DNC files, which he has never released.
Also, Dotcom has been fighting extradition for over five years. The raid on his property was the FBI operating illegally on foreign soil, with military force. He basically won the main charges which is why he’s just moved the fuck away from NZ. I would to, if they let that happen to me and my family. You’re reading the western articles which do nothing but slander him. That’s what I mean, all them mainstream articles you’ve read will have painted him as a demon because yeah.. he’s always been like “fuck this establishment, power to the people”. It’s not a positive message for them at all. When he launched MegaBox, the music industry panicked. That was a legit paid service, which is why they panicked. I suggest you actually watch that documentary, or these videos below and actually listen to the guy himself. Once again, you’re believing sensational headlines over actual individuals themselves. He’s smart, knowledgeable and also a moderate. Just a nice guy. Maybe a bit larger than life, eccentric. Yeah..his site may have hosted illegal shit. That was up to his users. He believes in encryption and privacy so he wouldn’t moderate content unless it was reported. That’s how most internet sites work, which aren’t strong-armed by propaganda machines.
No, the main charges him have not been dropped, and he hasn't won any major victory in the courts, aside from a lawsuit against the New Zealand police for invading his privacy.That's it. And he never supplies any proof for anything he says, which is your whole big gripe about government.
Whistleblowing is not a crime when the information is of public interest
Neither Dotcom or Assange are whistle blowers, just Snowden.
