At 1/23/18 03:03 PM, Sause wrote:
That was my point exactly Gario.
Well, you're half right - I agree with you that Dems are acting like incompetant fools atm, but not in the following statement.
You’re used to Republicans caving and going into fetal position if they meet any opposition.
This is literally 100% untrue - ever since the Tea party has utilized their uncompromising strategies, Republicans slowly became the party that literally never compromised, even when it made sense to (like, for example, how Rand Paul didn't vote for this current measure because it gives too much to Democrats). The examples above (if you look into them) are examples of this sort of unworkable obstinance working against Republicans (which is the opposite of what you think it is).
But a Democrat doing it? All they know is push, push, push for more.
Holy shit, does the Overton Window and the Neo-liberal philosophy of incrimentalism have a few things to say about how off your statement is, here.
That’s why I don’t think their nature has changed. I think they are doing a tactical stand down because they were getting word from media friends that the public was starting to perceive the shutdown as their baby.
This is very true - I'll fully admit you're correct here.
It's also quite incorrect on their part, since standing down makes it look like they acknowledge that the shut down is their fault (when Republicans hold all of the power - not being able to get an additional 10 Democrats to vote on it is on THEIR heads). If Democrats grew a sack and publically defended their position they could've easily held American opinion in their favor, but now they're both reviled by conservatives convinced that they're at fault for the shut down and progressives that believe they caved to Republicans with little to show for it. It's the worst outcome possible, if I'm to be frank.
The Trump whitehouse, cogressional republicans and other spokespersons working in concert with one another, staying on a similar message, and keeping the “Schumer Shutdown” spin on the story is likely what have the DNC some pause: actual backbone from the RNC.
The RNC reframed the debate, as usual. This is not surprising - they have been masters of this technique for as long as I've kept an eye on politics, and it's their modus operandi. They're so good at it that you somehow think Democrats have always been stubborn obstructionists because of the Republican methods of framing.
It’s the Dems that usually never flinch or waver. A united front from the right wing of government is something they don’t know how to deal with, in my view.
I have no idea where you get this view from. From Obama wasting the Democratic supermajority negotiating his healthcare bill from a public option to a Republican mandate system (he didn't need the votes, this was pointless), to Democrats dicking around with the Supreme court pick when it was Obama's right to select, to ignoring states passing unconstitutional voting suppression laws, to voting consistently for economically conservative bills, to Democrat's habit of circlejerking every time they reach a bipartisan consensus (especially on very conesrvative bills) ... Again, you seem to be taken in by Republicans' ability to reframe any and every issue to make Democrats seem like unmoveable monsters.
I have to commend them for that, to be honest, in a I-can't-stand-you-but-you're-really-good-at-what-you-do sort of way.
Also Tony above, you’re overblowing the Gorsuch appointment. All Trump did was re-balance the courts. That’s pretty much just putting the car in park.
A dead horse if I've ever seen one, but that Gorsuch appointment was unconstitutional (it was Obama's right, not Trump's). That is a whole other can of worms, though, and I would probably derail the hell out of this thread if I elaborated.