At 9/26/11 10:59 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 9/26/11 10:40 AM, The-universe wrote: However the second I asked for a detailed explanation as to how verbal commands could relate to cosmogenesis he became unbelievably defensive.

I bet you think you really showed him, don't you?

Well, if you're going to use overly vague archaic statements and try to correlate them with enormously complicated fields of research, then you don't even deserve structured sentences.

At 9/28/11 03:56 PM, The-universe wrote: Well, if you're going to use overly vague archaic statements and try to correlate them with enormously complicated fields of research, then you don't even deserve structured sentences.

I think you're misunderstanding the power of faith. Just because someone makes a conclusion that may sound mildly absurd, doesn't make them flat out wrong. They have crafted a system that allows them to believe what they want, thus answering the questions we don't have answers to, while still being able to accept the answers that we have found.

At 9/28/11 04:07 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I think you're misunderstanding the power of faith.

That it's peddled around like something to be proud of?

How much faith do you have in drinking arsenic?

Just because someone makes a conclusion that may sound mildly absurd, doesn't make them flat out wrong. They have crafted a system that allows them to believe what they want, thus answering the questions we don't have answers to, while still being able to accept the answers that we have found.

It makes them flat out wrong because they're cherry picking quotations that are vague and simple and trying to correlate them with complicated fields of research. I think it was venomfangx on youtube that tried to prove the bible knew of medicine and hygiene because it mentioned washing your hands after touching a corpse. Can't remember exactly but basically all our knowledge on anatomy, physiology, viruses, bacteria, fungus, genetics etc all narrowed down too....dunking your hands in a river.

A diagram of a cell or a physics equation would suffice, but last time I checked I can't say I've seen one.

At 9/28/11 04:07 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 9/28/11 03:56 PM, The-universe wrote: Well, if you're going to use overly vague archaic statements and try to correlate them with enormously complicated fields of research, then you don't even deserve structured sentences.

I think you're misunderstanding the power of faith. Just because someone makes a conclusion that may sound mildly absurd, doesn't make them flat out wrong. They have crafted a system that allows them to believe what they want, thus answering the questions we don't have answers to, while still being able to accept the answers that we have found.

Okay so they made a system that allows them to make shit up as they go, answering questions with no answers. Don't you see a huge problem with that?

And no it does not necessairly make them wrong, but when they are right it's by sheer luck, and it must not happen often.

At 9/29/11 12:22 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: Okay so they made a system that allows them to make shit up as they go, answering questions with no answers. Don't you see a huge problem with that?

you may have disagreed with me earlier on in the thread about my assuming god physically holds us back, but this is why. those who believe in god take his words, presence, etc... for granted, in essence making whether or not he truly exists a moot point because some will gladly hold themselves back (either limit their thoughts or actions) through the slightest possibility that it is part of god's will.

I believe that belief in a God divides humanity, and therefore slows down progress, which becomes distracted by an all out war over "who's right and who's wrong". There are major scale cases of it, such cases taking place in the middle east, and there are small scale cases of it, such cases taking place in America right now. Any division between peoples is an enemy to progress.

I hate to point the dirty end of the stick at Christians, but there seems to be a lot of hating against Atheists and Muslims, primarily because of fear for "Satan taking over". It's not like Christians are this mass of hateful, intolerant people, however. Every group of people has a section of extremists in it.

The idea of a God itself doesn't hold people back, people do. We're all too fucking stupid to handle such an idea.

At 9/30/11 10:28 PM, Scarface wrote: which becomes distracted by an all out war over "who's right and who's wrong".

And we wouldn't have this without religion?

At 9/29/11 12:33 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 9/29/11 12:22 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: Okay so they made a system that allows them to make shit up as they go, answering questions with no answers. Don't you see a huge problem with that?

you may have disagreed with me earlier on in the thread about my assuming god physically holds us back, but this is why. those who believe in god take his words, presence, etc... for granted, in essence making whether or not he truly exists a moot point because some will gladly hold themselves back (either limit their thoughts or actions) through the slightest possibility that it is part of god's will.

And some others will do horrible things thinking they are in fact moral because "moral" only means "whatever god wants" even if it means murder or genocide. Sure religion can make some people not do evil acts, but it does just the exact opposite, religion is an useless construct that is no longer needed and that does more harm than good.

At 9/30/11 11:08 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 9/30/11 10:28 PM, Scarface wrote: which becomes distracted by an all out war over "who's right and who's wrong".

And we wouldn't have this without religion?

Fair point, but arguments regarding religion are a reason among many that makes this an issue.

At 9/30/11 11:08 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 9/30/11 10:28 PM, Scarface wrote: which becomes distracted by an all out war over "who's right and who's wrong".

And we wouldn't have this without religion?

Yes but religion ads another important thing for us to disagree with, one that cannot be proven by facts, that we are engaged in in an emotionnal level and tells us to bleieve and convert other people otherwise it's a sin and we rot in hell forever.

At 9/30/11 11:20 PM, VenomKing666 wrote: Sure religion can make some people not do evil acts...

sorry, by holding themselves back i meant holding themselves back from progress as per the topic; i.e. science, human rights, etc...

i blame god directly for those shenanigans even though he doesn't exist :D

The idea of religion is mixed

Although you improve as a person trough religion it also has caused the dark ages (Famine, Torture, Poverty)
And trought the middle ages the reason of millions of deaths trought religion and even the iraq war going on right now

religion has its ups and downs but it seems to have done a lot of damage to mankind

At 10/2/11 02:23 AM, android175 wrote: And trought the middle ages the reason of millions of deaths trought religion and even the iraq war going on right now

The massive recession caused by the collapse of Rome caused the Dark Ages.

At 9/28/11 11:44 AM, VenomKing666 wrote:

You do bring up a lot of good points, and as I look back on my post I did give a wrong implementation on my "definition" of comparing faith and science. I agree with your definition of science, and I don't take science in general to be compatible to religion. However, I do believe that certain sciences (ex. psychology, as mentioned in my previous post), can be integrated with religion and will not conflict in a harmful way.

Read this article.You might find it interesting.

I also liked your point about the charities and how it doesn't need God. While that may be true, I think that a belief in God encourages people to have a love for humanity in a way that secularism doesn't.

As I was researching this I came upon this charitable comparison article.

Okay, you can believe that, that makes you "wrong" and you provide nothing to back up this claim.

I find your hypocrisy hilarious. Nothing personal, but if you plan on being the "superior" one, don't stoop to "my" level and continue to base your arguments without articles or quotes. Note that I'm using articles.

PS: Freud suggested that we all feel the need to castrate our same-sex parent in order to fall in love with our different sex parent. You said he was awesome...

At 10/2/11 08:33 PM, SweetenBoy wrote:

At 9/28/11 11:44 AM, VenomKing666 wrote:

You do bring up a lot of good points, and as I look back on my post I did give a wrong implementation on my "definition" of comparing faith and science. I agree with your definition of science, and I don't take science in general to be compatible to religion. However, I do believe that certain sciences (ex. psychology, as mentioned in my previous post), can be integrated with religion and will not conflict in a harmful way.

Exept that without science we would still think insanity and epilepsy to be demonic possession. What I try to show by saying that is that we owe all we know, and our standard of living to science and experiment, while religion is only right because it gets lucky, meaning that it get's the stuff it says right by chance.

Read this article.You might find it interesting.

I would have loved to however I need to be a member, if you want to copypaste it somewhere I'll give it a read.

I also liked your point about the charities and how it doesn't need God. While that may be true, I think that a belief in God encourages people to have a love for humanity in a way that secularism doesn't.

As I was researching this I came upon this charitable comparison article.

That's pretty sweet, however it does not make god's existence any more true. And I could add, why are they being charitable? Just to do a good action? Or because of fear of the man in the sky who is watching?

Okay, you can believe that, that makes you "wrong" and you provide nothing to back up this claim.

I find your hypocrisy hilarious. Nothing personal, but if you plan on being the "superior" one, don't stoop to "my" level and continue to base your arguments without articles or quotes. Note that I'm using articles.

That specific claim I quoted saying you were wrong, you did not use any article to show any evidence of it, and I did not feel I needed to because this argument is just silly, humans are humans, we come bundled up with emotions and moral standards, science while in itself hard and cold is driven by passion, passion to know the world around us, to explore. Religion has nothing to do with morality. Christopher Hitchens often asks this question to theists as a chalenge: "Name one moral action performed by a believer that could not have been done by a nonbeliever." He then ads: "On the contrary, can you think of a wicked action made in the name of faith that an atheist would have no part in." I think it illustrates the point perfectly.

PS: Freud suggested that we all feel the need to castrate our same-sex parent in order to fall in love with our different sex parent. You said he was awesome...

I said he was awesome and that most his ideas taught us alot about human psyche, not that everything he said was 100% accurate.

At 7/23/11 05:40 PM, camobch0 wrote: I just want to pose a question to everyone out here. I want to ask you

Does the idea of a God, or some sort of force omnipotent or creator in the universe, hold us back as a species?

My personal belief is that the idea of a God-force holds humanity back, because it means that life is a level playing field. Without a God, it basically renders life into a one-off experience, where those who are unlucky, will die and have to survive through a horrid life, and those who are lucky, or abuse other humans will succeed. It's comforting to think that even though most average people in countries like Afghanistan and South Sudan have to go through horrible hardships, they will go to heaven afterwards and have eternal happiness. With this kind of believe, people don't feel as though they have to work hard to change our world so that people do not have to suffer.

I want your guys opinions on this. I'm not trying to make a thread about the existence of God, so if you personally think there is a God, then incorporate that into your post, and if you don't, then incorporate that into your post. Don't debate about the existence of God, just talk about your beliefs in if God holds us back from achieving something greater as a species, or if it does help believers become better people.

My way of answering this question about dose God holding us back is the sheer fact that God/Goddess itself has nothing to do with it.

The reason? It is we that have a tendency to hold ourselves back, this is something that takes place from time to time, their are times when we feel held back, times when we think we cannot achieve a common goal, even times where others hold us back from the one thing if not number of things we are suppose to learn throughout life itself.

Whatever you choose to believe me or not, it matters not, but what matters most is that you know what I wrote and know what I mentioned about.