I've been pretty heated on the subject due to a recent personal experience. To make a long story short, I was arrested for marijuana possession at my college. It was under a gram in my dorm room. I had to attend counseling sessions, psychiatric evaluation, multiple 3 hour classes, pay $500 to the school, $900 to the courts, got kicked off school housing permanently, put on probation until May 2012 by my school, and a year of probation by the courts. I got a NJ thing called a conditional discharge, so if I stay out of trouble for that year it is off my record.

Needless to say I got fucked, and literally can not afford to pay the fines. I had to sell my PS3 and I still owe $200. The purpose of this thread is to ask you for your personal opinion of marijuana laws across the nation. Because I watch shows such as "Alaska State Troopers" and when they find marijuana they give the guy a fucking citation and like a $50 fine for half an ounce.

What is your opinion?

Well, what your school did is understandable for the most part (except maybe permanently kicking you off of school housing).

Everything else though is pretty much straight up BS. I personally find the penalties in some states to be extremely strict and unjustified.

Marijuana laws are not fair. Weed should be legal and tax free. Its a god damn plant.

The stigma stems from a mix of fear concerning black market activity, gateway drug associations, and to lesser degree, the health concerns of 'smoking' (i.e. lung cancer). But if it were legal, weed would not be sold in the same market as illegal goods and therefore would not be sold by a "pusher" who would convince marijuana users to buy or consume, knowingly or unknowingly, other drugs or illegal products. Legalization would also bring prices of a crop down dramatically, resulting in the availability of more smokeless marjiuana based products, drastically decreasing the amount of smokers in the marjiuana user population.

I don't count on it, but I hope for it.

However, it is not for kids. I would say 21+ is the federal precedent.

At 4/5/11 07:47 PM, X-TERRORIST-X wrote: What is your opinion?

They would prefer for you to sell your PS3 to buy addictive alcohol and killing brain cells whilst chain-smoking tobacco to pay for national health of millions of morbidly obese people or occasional sky-diving and skiing accidents. Then you should die relatively quickly from lung cancer, liver disease, or congestive heart failure, just to save the health system another bob or two. But don't drink/drive causing GBH, cos that'll makes them look like hypocrites.

No one ever dies from pot.. so yeah.. ^that's^ the real reason.

Have you learnt your lesson now?!

It's really two different systems you went through.

First, there is the criminal justice system, which is whatever citation you got and the 1 year probation and the $900 fine. Every state treats drugs differently but they all kind of go off of the federal "schedule" of drugs. The Feds tagged pot way back in the day as a schedule 1 drug, or a drug with no medical uses whatsoever. It's lumped in with heroin and the like. This is the likely reason for the archaic punishment.

Second, you have your college. They are a whole other entity outside of the justice system. You are bound by their rules by whatever honor code or student handbooks they have. It can be as strict as that one college that punished their star basketball player for having premarital sex to almost nonexistent. Beyond simply the honor codes, you were living on campus. Students living on campus are, for all intents and purposes, like high schoolers. You are living at the school on campus, the school provides you food and utilities and a place to sleep...you are pretty much at their whim. Additional restrictions apply to you because they also have specific rules or codes regarding on-campus housing and students. They could kick you out of student housing for having a george foreman grill in the dorm or having too many pizza boxes in the kitchen one week. The additional fines and "probation" are wholly separate from the other ones although some colleges with their own university police force have agreements with surrounding communities to handle the criminal bits as well when students get in trouble.

Have you ever found a cause that regardless of the quality of the arguments just never seem slegitimate?

I have, and it's called marijuana legaization. Why? Because of the people who support it. They generally tend to fall into two equally ignorable camps. they are either people who want it legalized so they can smoke it. Yeah, sorry, that's not a good enough reason. Then there are the MLG types who want to legalize it a way to subvert the system. The biases of these gorpus always overshadow any quality argument they may have.

Sorry you got busted, but you knew the rules. Not liking a law isn't a free ticket to break it. Believe me when I say that this doesn't fall into a slavery or a Plessy type law that needs to be broken for the benefit of society.

Pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that pot laws are completely insane in the USA. Like flat-out crazy.

At 4/5/11 11:52 PM, Korriken wrote: ... you willfully broke the law and bitch about the punishment.... kids these days....

I hate to say it but he is right. Is it excessively harsh? Perhaps. However you were very aware that what you were doing was illegal, so can you really complain about the penalty? You choose to break the law, you must accept the consequences for your actions. Its not like you had no idea it was illegal.

At 4/5/11 11:52 PM, Korriken wrote: ... you willfully broke the law and bitch about the punishment.... kids these days....

I mean, seriously, you put your own enjoyment of an illegal substance before your education. Why is it illegal? *shrug* should it be? *shrug* not the point. Point is, kids need to learn to respect the law as long as its in place and not have this "fuck the system, i think its bullshit so I'm gonna do what i WANT to do" mentality that is so pervasive these days.

had you simply obeyed the law, and kept the shit out of your dorm, this problem would not exist. it's your own fault. enjoy the consequences of your actions.

The law is not some righteous god given doctrine to man. It is a compilation of laws made by bureaucrats. Marijuana laws were just made to appease corporate interests. Corporations feared competition from hemp products so they funded political campaigns to ban the substance. The American public was fooled by sensationalized propaganda which linked the drug to promiscuous sex and violence. This legislation was also seen as another way to crack down on minorities, particularly Mexican Americans. Politicians love the money they get from tobacco and alcohol corporations, so don't expect those dangerous and addictive drugs to be illegalized.

If this is where our laws are coming from, I say fuck the law.

Sincerely, a law abiding citizen

At 4/6/11 12:50 AM, poxpower wrote: Pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that pot laws are completely insane in the USA. Like flat-out crazy.

And it is pretty obvious to anyone with a full brain that the concept of fairness is a convenient fantasy.

At 4/6/11 08:44 AM, Korriken wrote: If someone shot a relative of mine and i tracked them down and shot them back..

Dude, he's not revenging someone's death! lol

There are many laws I disagree with. Doesn't mean I have the right to ignore the ones I don't like.

So you moved state? Or do you put up and shut up?

You know how laws change right? Yeah, slavery used to be legal.

Ever had someone lie against you under oath? No?!

Heard of one law for rich, and another law for poor?

Ever experienced a mis-justice? Let us know when you do.

At 4/6/11 12:50 AM, poxpower wrote: Pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that pot laws are completely insane in the USA. Like flat-out crazy.

;;;
Ditto !
WHich will soon become the norm for Canada if that asshole Harper ever gets a majority government. We will also start putting people in prison for the horrific crime of smoking a joint, which harms no one except possibly the smoker & the results of it being more harmful than say tobacco or alcohol are now in & thboth of those are what should be banned & illegal, not pot !

When a country enforces laws against victimless crimes that can easily be broken without penalty, it creates an environment where people feel free to ignore the law. If I rob a store, someone is going to want that money back. If I kill a man, someone will be looking for the killer. But if I smoke a joint, who have I wronged? Who is going to be looking for the smoker? Yes, people do get caught for drug possession, but the vast majority don't. Most marijuana users view it as something that they can easily hide from law enforcement, and in most cases this is true. The police simply do not have the time, resources or legal verification to perform searches invasive enough to bust the majority of drug users. So if there is no victim, and little chance of being caught, why not do it?

During the Prohibition, there was a steep rise in crime. Alcohol was something that was illegal on paper, but everyone did it anyway. In fact, drinking became much more commonplace in the twenties. Violent crimes, including homicides increased dramatically and prison populations skyrocketed. The law was seen as something people can easily get around during this period and as a result, crime increased.

You can criticize people for not respecting the law all you want, but at the end of the day the government is at fault for imposing laws that they cannot properly enforce.

I found it cute how Korriken was criticizing my lifestyle choices. I've never tried marijuana, or any illegal drug for that matter. Please get off your high horse.

At 4/6/11 06:50 PM, Korriken wrote: Funny. I don't remember criticizing YOUR life style. I was criticizing Terrorist's rather poor lifestyle choice of keeping contraband in his dorm room for officials to locate. I mean, if you want to believe I care about you enough to criticize you before you even give me any info on your life choices, I can't stop you. However, telling me of the stupid things you do leaves you open for criticism.

Korrieken, I really just think your stupid. Who the fuck are you to compare burglary to smoking weed? That's absurd. Sure it has a low rate of being solved but it can't be legal because it violates one's constitutional rights.

Marijuana is completely different. Doing it is not hurting anyone except arguably themselves.

And I don't even give a fuck if there is a law hanging drug dealers. There is a HUGE difference between smoking weed and selling it. I am talking about being found in minor possession marijuana.

I know exactly the type of person you are. For you, if something is illegal, ITS BAD!!!! DON"T DO IT!!! Why don't you go fucking rant about how whenever your driving people around you are going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit and that just FUCKING DRIVES YOU CRAZY.

Take a deep breathe, realize that there is a difference between smoking weed and robbing someones house, and go on with your life.

At 4/6/11 12:41 AM, Camarohusky wrote: Have you ever found a cause that regardless of the quality of the arguments just never seem slegitimate?

I'll ignore all the references to prohibition and assume no one cares that it is less harmful to your body than Tobacco, and less addictive. Instead I will focus on the economic value of this commodity.
We don't have to forget that the United States is in serious debt, legalizing this drug will not just relieve a lot of the money you spend on this "war on drugs" but it will be a taxable good that will generate money, money that you can use to pay off China.

I have, and it's called marijuana legaization. Why? Because of the people who support it. They generally tend to fall into two equally ignorable camps. they are either people who want it legalized so they can smoke it. Yeah, sorry, that's not a good enough reason. Then there are the MLG types who want to legalize it a way to subvert the system. The biases of these gorpus always overshadow any quality argument they may have.

People who want it legalized so they can smoke it don't realize how easy it is to get away with it right now. You know how many minor traffic violations and bad driving practices that people make habitual? its that easy, and its arguably easier to get away with because you don't do this drug in the middle of the road, you do it away from people if you have half a brain. Crossing a border? Then throw your stash out, keep your car tidy so you don't have buds all over the place, don't cross without being sober, and your set.

And of course people have their ulterior motives with these matters, if you haven't noticed, pretty much everything can be exploited by some one. Why was this drug illegalised? because people had ulterior motives.

At 4/6/11 06:38 PM, Korriken wrote: you completely miss the point. The law is the law.

You shouldn't be comparing murder with possession of 1 gram of pot. Half the time the law is what a cop, lawyer, or judge says it is. In some countries you pay up and walk. Even diplomatic immunity puts people outside of the law. (as recently happened in Pakistan with murder).

Law is not the law like comparing apples. I bet i could even come up with a scenario where you can't not break the law. What would you do then? Suicide? Oh no, suicide is illegal! Even if i stand perfectly still and simply die of thirst/hunger it's breaking a law! If you find yourself in a situation where you can't not break a law, then your whole argument fails.

Could always pull a Singapore and start hanging drug dealers. I'm all for that.

Like yeah.. ^THAT^ explains everything!

Even drug dealers have families. You're creating victims, and potentially more fucked up lives.

I simply follow the law, pursuing my ambitions within the realm of the law, or at least not be dumb enough to leave evidence lying around.

If you have no evidence, how can you defend false accusations?

I don't see your point. breaking the law won't change it.

Of course it changes it. Cause and effect. Prisions fill up, countries go bankrupt, laws change.

Ever had someone lie against you under oath? No?!

ummm. no I stay out of court. Also, how does this play into the current discussion of marijuna law or law in general?

Because X-Terrorist didn't say how he was caught possessing 1 gram of pot in his dorm. He "kept it short" and didn't even admit to smoking it. (haven't checked his older posts, but that's besides the point) He could have been set up! May have decided for whatever reason (blackmail) to take the punishment, but still thinks he got a raw deal. Who knows?! But it's easy to end up in court by false accusation, or perhaps planted evidence. Someone with a grudge against you, and so on and so forth.

Heard of one law for rich, and another law for poor?

I don't see how this has anything to do with the marijuana law.

It's saying that the law is one thing to one person, and completely another to another. The consequences of fines and such are absolutely nothing if you're a billionaire, compared say with someone who's forced to do jail time simply cos of unpaid fines.

At 4/7/11 12:50 AM, Iron-Hampster wrote: I'll ignore all the references to prohibition and assume no one cares ...

You got it right. No one cares. Rather, no one who matters cares. They don't care that pot is illegal. People who actually do things with their lives don't use it so they don't feel the need to legalize it.

People who want it legalized so they can smoke it don't realize how easy it is to get away with it right now.

Perhaps they want it legalized because when you smoke it you become too stupid to hide it well.

And of course people have their ulterior motives with these matters, if you haven't noticed, pretty much everything can be exploited by some one. Why was this drug illegalised? because people had ulterior motives.

Oh you mean THE MAN? He's really out to get you, huh. His goal is to ruin your mojo and kill your buzz. You sure got that right...

At 4/7/11 12:47 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 4/6/11 06:38 PM, Korriken wrote: I simply follow the law, pursuing my ambitions within the realm of the law, or at least not be dumb enough to leave evidence lying around.

So you view pot-smoking as a crime against society? Or just leaving it around? You seem to be arguing two different things, or merely claiming one and accepting another.

He hasn't thought the possibility of moving into a furnished flat, and then have the cops knock on the door some days later ("someone seen selling drugs outside the residence") with a search warrant, and finding some other guys stash under a broken floorboard. Another person's hidden evidence. And sounds like he would diligently check all floors, walls, and ceiling spaces of any hotels he might happen to stay at.

At 4/7/11 02:02 AM, Korriken wrote: at this point, you're grasping at straws. what are the odds of that even happening? someone leaving their stash behind?

You were the one talking about hiding evidence. Someone else suggested stoners forgetting where they put it. It happens all the time, so not as far fetched as you're imagining, cos yeah, we're always having to hide our stash (hence the name) even in our own homes.

the cops would have no grounds to search your place on suspicion that "someone saw a drug dealer in the area. we need to search your house" would be one of the most lawyer friendly search warrants ever.

Look, I'm just trying to use American friendly terms. Where i live they have right of entry on "suspicion of drugs". No warrant needed.

At 4/7/11 05:45 AM, JudgeDredd wrote: Look, I'm just trying to use American friendly terms. Where i live they have right of entry on "suspicion of drugs". No warrant needed.

Same her in the US. If they have probable cause that a crime is being committed, or that evidence being destroyed (and yes, smoking marijuana is destroying it)

At 4/7/11 09:40 AM, Korriken wrote: interesting. where do you live and how far can this search go? we'd never stand for such a thing over here. I'm no fan of contraband or its users, but I'd have to side with them when it comes to being searched without a warrant. Some would argue "if you got nothing to hide..." and I say "Screw you, I'm not giving up my rights."

Sorry, but the 4th Amendment doesn't give you that much protection here. There are a lot of ways around it, and frankly there should be. The 4th Amendment was put in place to stop harassment, not to allow you to hide criminal activity.

At 4/6/11 10:18 AM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 4/6/11 05:39 AM, KemCab wrote: And it is pretty obvious to anyone with a full brain that the concept of fairness is a convenient fantasy.

The concept of fairness isn't a fantasy, but the application.

"The concept of fairness" is an ideal. We'd love everyone to be fair to us but that's not going to happen ever. It's a fiction, and so is the "application of fairness."

You'd know that if you had half a brain.

Better being completely brainless, like you, for actually believing that people ought to be fair to each other. (You know what kind of world that'd be: a boring one.)

Korriken, the question is 'are marijuana laws fair', not 'should you get in trouble for breaking the law'. It could be accepted that punishing everyone caught with pot is 'fairer' than having a more scarttershot approach, and you think 'tough shit, you broke the law, don't complain about the punishment', but that completely misses the whole question. Is the punishment fair?

To potentially have your life ruined because you took a drug recreationally, to me, seems like a rather unfair law.

And you can succeed if you smoke pot. I don't even need to provide evidence. The moment you said 'pot smokers can't get their act together enough to change the law' and 'successful people, the type of whom make the laws, don't smoke pot', I immediately started thinking of people like Ted Turner and Richard Branson, companies like NORML, et cetera. It's all bullshit, everything you're saying about pot smokers. They go on pro-cannabis political rallys, they structure propositions, they vote for them, they're normal citizens. If they decided going out like the people of Libya and violently overthrowing the government was an appropriate response, then they'd do that too. Your stereotypes belong in the 40s.

At 4/7/11 11:29 AM, KemCab wrote: Better being completely brainless, like you, for actually believing that people ought to be fair to each other. (You know what kind of world that'd be: a boring one.)

*better than

And lol at you talking about me not having a brain while in the meantime you talk about things like "injustice" and "unfairness."

At 4/7/11 11:20 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 4/7/11 05:45 AM, JudgeDredd wrote: Look, I'm just trying to use American friendly terms. Where i live they have right of entry on "suspicion of drugs". No warrant needed.

Same here in the US. If they have probable cause that a crime is being committed, or that evidence being destroyed (and yes, smoking marijuana is destroying it)

Yeah, each country has it's own nuance in the wording for warrantless search.

US is "probable cause".
Aussie is "reasonable suspicion".
NZ is "reasonable grounds".

Quote: "Warrantless powers have developed in a rather haphazard manner, and in some instances it is difficult for the officers exercising those powers to know the basis for them, when they can be exercised and their exact scope."

On the one hand, it might preclude entry when the officer has not personally witnessed an offence. But in recent cases "a smell of cannabis" has been reasonable grounds for entry (as Camarohusky has suggested) believing evidential material is at risk. Problem is, cannabis is VERY smelly, regardless if it's being grown or smoked, and can waft around and linger, such that it's often hard to tell which building it's actually coming from.

Sure, cannabis is very distinctive, but there are also many legal herbal substitutes that try to mimic the smell and appearance such that an untrained officer might not tell the difference.

At 4/7/11 01:27 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 4/7/11 12:50 AM, Iron-Hampster wrote:

You got it right. No one cares. Rather, no one who matters cares. They don't care that pot is illegal. People who actually do things with their lives don't use it so they don't feel the need to legalize it.

You could say the same about all the people who couldn't live without alcohol, or the people who currently cant live without Tobacco. look at all the rich and famous people who drink and smoke. And I'm not talking about the wrecks who are hopped up on meth.

People who want it legalized so they can smoke it don't realize how easy it is to get away with it right now.

Perhaps they want it legalized because when you smoke it you become too stupid to hide it well.

Maybe they want it legalized so their money goes towards helping the country instead of god knows who is growing it.

Oh you mean THE MAN? He's really out to get you, huh. His goal is to ruin your mojo and kill your buzz. You sure got that right...

actually, I would much rather fund "THE MAN" then some sadistic Cartel. In fact, it used to be mandatory by law that all farmers grow hemp, not because of the purpose of getting high, but because of its alternate uses like cheap clothing and paper. Right now, the only people who are taking advantage of the fact that it is illegal are the criminals who make a fortune off of it.

At 4/7/11 02:15 PM, Iron-Hampster wrote:

Right now, the only people who are taking advantage of the fact that it is illegal are the criminals who make a fortune off of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLROsSQnh vw

I don't want my tax money spent on filling our prisons to the brim. I don't want the police wasting their time busting drug offenders when they should be concerned with our safety. I don't like wasting a valuable natural resource while giving criminal organizations the opportunity to be its supplier. I don't like seeing people with potential having their futures ruined by this outdated approach to justice. There are plenty of reasons for people who don't do drugs to oppose these ridiculous laws.

At 4/7/11 12:11 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: Now ideals are fantasies? C'mon.

Yes. An ideal is a fiction; it is a picture of the world as you think it ought to be. If it weren't it would be a reality.

Meh, for you to convince me that justice is merely a contrived fiction, you'll need to do better than that.

Are you really this dense? First of all, learn the difference between fairness and justice.

Moreover, justice is subjective; when you say "justice is served" what you really mean is that the outcome of an event is in accordance with your own morality, and therefore it is silly to whine about whether something is just or unjust.

At 4/7/11 12:23 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: All those are fantastical, eh?

They're all fictions, yes. Nobody is REALLY any of those things. They attempt to be.