At 6/11/11 10:19 AM, ironraven24 wrote: They felt clunky, were slow, and useless when you could fast travel everywhere.

You couldn't fast travel everywhere, which was the whole point of horses. You had to first visit a location before you had the ability to fast travel there. As for being slow you must only have used the crappy horses. If you had Shadowmere you'd see that not all horses were slow and to make them any faster than that would have been pretty pointless. I can agree to an extent that they felt slightly clunky, but I think the other reasons are invalid.

Also, the fact that every guard in the game would pursue me indefinitely for picking up a clay pot is very silly. The whole crime system as a whole in vanilla makes it not too fun to be a thief. Luckily I have mods, so it's a lot more fun.

Wasn't that only the case if you got caught? Moral of the story, be a better thief.

Leveling was quite tedious as well.

I can agree with this, but it looks like Skyrim is addressing that. I don't think any of my characters made it to a particularly high level because I always ended up not focusing on my main skills.

At 6/11/11 07:06 AM, Dean wrote:

GTA: San Andreas probably comes in a very close second.

Oh yeah, I can't wait for 2004.

I'm probably going to start playing Oblivion again, soon. I'm not really sure what I'd do, though.. I mean, with 500 hours of gameplay you've done most of the quest.

Well, I never beat Shivering Isles because my main character glitched and made it so it's impossible to complete.

At 6/11/11 10:19 AM, ironraven24 wrote:

At 6/11/11 06:15 AM, Jolly wrote: I agree with all of those things, except for the shitty horses. What's so bad about them?

They felt clunky, were slow, and useless when you could fast travel everywhere.

I never really thought they did, but maybe it's mainly because I only used horses when traveling on the road. I always just walked anywhere off the road.

Also, the fact that every guard in the game would pursue me indefinitely for picking up a clay pot is very silly. The whole crime system as a whole in vanilla makes it not too fun to be a thief. Luckily I have mods, so it's a lot more fun.

Yeah, it seems a bit stupid that they're willing to murder you over the smallest things. They should only try to track you down if you've murder someone innocent.

At 6/11/11 11:01 AM, Dean wrote: I can agree to an extent that they felt slightly clunky, but I think the other reasons are invalid.

You know, I assumed that they would give you faster horses as you got better ones, but I never really bothered, so yeah, I'll agree with you here.

Wasn't that only the case if you got caught? Moral of the story, be a better thief.

Well yes, but the point is that If I commit a small crime in Bruma, the guards in Kvatch shouldn't know about it, unless it was a huge crime, and it had been a few days for the news to actually be able to spread that far. In my opinion, you should actually be able to avoid being caught once a guard sees you committing a crime.

For example, if I break into a shop, and the shopkeeper manages to escape to tell a guard, that's the only guard that should know about said crime. not the ENTIRE world, it just doesn't make sense, and it takes the immersion out a bit. Instead, say, Im fighting a guard, if a guard see us, then he knows about it, he could help the other guard with fighting, or go get more guards.

Maybe even civilians could also report crimes to other guards. If you manage to lose line of sight, or if they just can't follow you anymore, they should let you go. But of course, they will remember your face, and crime, and so will the rest of that town (assuming it's a big enough crime, if not then imo It should only be that one guard, or maybe they should just let it go). Or if you kill all of the guards (and witnesses) no one should know about that crime, unless they see the bodies, even if they did, how would they know you committed the murders?

There's a mod that really makes the guard AI in general better, which does a few of these things, and it would make dealing with guards much, much better. I understand that if you -never- get caught then it isn't a problem, and I usually don't. I just think it's silly that if you do, the ENTIRE world knows and they pursue you to no end.

I can agree with this, but it looks like Skyrim is addressing that. I don't think any of my characters made it to a particularly high level because I always ended up not focusing on my main skills.

Yeah, I see that, which is very nice. The main problem I have with the leveling it just how tedious it is. But it seems that they are indeed addressing that, which is good.

At 6/11/11 06:40 PM, ironraven24 wrote: the guards in Kvatch

are all dead

At 6/11/11 06:40 PM, ironraven24 wrote: blah

Also I wanted to add, I also think the guards should be a bit or suspicious of you. Like, if you have your weapon drawn, or are sneaking around and they see you, maybe they should follow you, even from a distance, watching you. Or if you're just walking around in a dark alley at 4am, they should respond to that as well.

At 6/11/11 06:49 PM, Snuff wrote:

At 6/11/11 06:40 PM, ironraven24 wrote: the guards in Kvatch

are all dead

I totally meant Skingrad, bro.

yeah, totally.

At 6/11/11 06:40 PM, ironraven24 wrote: guard shizz

If all that was implemented into the game, it would be a much more immersive game. It'd be great to have guards chase you after a crime but then not realise it was you if they saw you ater and you were wearing a different set of armour and something to hide your face.

Of course, wearing a mask in general may seem suspicious.

At 6/11/11 06:40 PM, ironraven24 wrote: For example, if I break into a shop, and the shopkeeper manages to escape to tell a guard, that's the only guard that should know about said crime. not the ENTIRE world,

Hell, in Oblivion they didn't even need to tell the guards, they just automatically knew you committed a crime as long as someone witnessed it. Steal a fork in some remote cottage in the mountains and guards the other side of the world are after you.

Also I hope the NPC aren't such touchy, over-exaggerating bastards this time. Accidentally touch a cup and every guard is piling onto your ass as if you committed mass murder.

At 6/11/11 07:47 PM, Jackho wrote:

At 6/11/11 06:40 PM, ironraven24 wrote: For example, if I break into a shop, and the shopkeeper manages to escape to tell a guard, that's the only guard that should know about said crime. not the ENTIRE world,

Hell, in Oblivion they didn't even need to tell the guards, they just automatically knew you committed a crime as long as someone witnessed it. Steal a fork in some remote cottage in the mountains and guards the other side of the world are after you.

Indeed, and why should I have to "sneak" if no one is around to hear or see me? This isn't that big of a deal, but it doesn't make sense.

Also I hope the NPC aren't such touchy, over-exaggerating bastards this time. Accidentally touch a cup and every guard is piling onto your ass as if you committed mass murder.

As do I, it's a big immersion breaker for me, and again, it doesn't even make sense, so I really hope they're addressing these issues.

At 6/11/11 09:58 PM, Cootie wrote: I don't like the fact that kids are going to be in the game due to the fact that you can't kill them and that just ruins the immersion. Killing dragons with a sword but not being able to do the same to a child is just absurd. What, am I going to kill a whole town of people and then see it solely inhabited by little runts?

Bullshit and the only flaw so far.

Wait, how do you know kids are going to be in the game? I haven't seen any screenshots or anything that had kids in it.

At 6/11/11 10:12 PM, Jolly wrote: Wait, how do you know kids are going to be in the game? I haven't seen any screenshots or anything that had kids in it.

They're on the list.

At 6/11/11 10:15 PM, desert116 wrote:

At 6/11/11 10:12 PM, Jolly wrote: Wait, how do you know kids are going to be in the game? I haven't seen any screenshots or anything that had kids in it.

They're on the list.

Oh, I didn't know about a majority of the things on that list. (I'm trying not to get too hyped up about Skyrim)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but randomly generated quest sounds like a bad idea. It leads me to believe you're going to have to go somewhere, collect an idea, and return it to the person, or some along those lines.

Although if it's just things like this, I don't it would be that bad..

"Radiant storytelling" or Level Scaling 2.0: "The game eventually logs a huge storehouse of knowledge about how you've played, and subsequently tailors content to your capabilities and experiences. Entering a city, a young woman might approach you and beg you to save her daughter from kidnappers. The game will look at the nearby dungeons you've explored, automatically set the mission in a place you've never visited, and designate opponents that are appropriately matched to your strengths and weaknesses."

"Dropping pile of weapons in the street in order to save inventory and come back to it plays out different. If you drop a sword in the street, it may just dissapear, someone could find it and give it back to you, or it will cause a series of actions to happen where a couple people fight over who gets to keep the found sword."

I love the part where some people may fight over a basic sword you wouldn't even need anymore. Everything on that list is making this game sound damn good, even the return of the level scaling. I appreciated Oblivion's use of level scaling to give me the freedom to take care of any series of quests in my choice of order.

At 6/11/11 10:31 PM, Bahamut wrote: "Dropping pile of weapons in the street in order to save inventory and come back to it plays out different.

The next 5 months are going to take ages to pass..

At 6/11/11 10:31 PM, Bahamut wrote: I appreciated Oblivion's use of level scaling to give me the freedom to take care of any series of quests in my choice of order.

I completely dislike level scaling, i personally think levels should always be preset and static, It takes away from me progressing from a nobody to a feared, mighty warrior.

Some random goblin should stand no chance to me at a high level, and vice versa. While it gives freedom, it takes away from the immersion greatly for me. I personally don't think I should say, be allowed to be the arena champion at level 2.

At 6/11/11 11:05 PM, ironraven24 wrote: blah level scaling

Well, on second thought, if it's selective level scaling like Fallout 3/NV was, then I actually wont mind. That was a lot better than vanilla Oblivion.

As far as the level scaling in Oblivion goes, I don't like it. I've been spending some time on Two Worlds, where there is no level scaling at all and I much prefer that. You'll come across some gigantic enemy and think "wow, there's no way I'm going to defeat that" and you'd probably be right. I like having areas of the map inhabited mainly by strong creatures, meaning that you can't fully explore the game until you level up.

In Oblivion, I felt like there was no real reason to want to level up. In fact, most of my playthroughs I remained at really low levels. The only reason that I did decide to start levelling up was to see the other armour types become available and because I wanted more mana on my mage. Oh, and because quests rewarded you better at higher levels.

"Randomly generated quests"?

I swear, if all this stuff actually happens, this will be the greatest game ever made. And I highly doubt it'll be topped by anything other than it's own sequel.

Fuck this, I'm renting Oblivion to help pass the time, even though I've gotten all the achievements (lol who hasn't?) and I wont be able to do The Shivering Isles again since I got it from my GOTY version (lol Dean), but oh well, I need some sort of summer entertainment which isn't Minecraft or Runescape.

I'm so failing college.

At 6/12/11 06:11 AM, Dean wrote: I like having areas of the map inhabited mainly by strong creatures, meaning that you can't fully explore the game until you level up.

I completely agree. Static enemy levels is definitely the way to go.

At 6/12/11 06:24 AM, Snuff wrote: Fuck this, I'm renting Oblivion to help pass the time\
I'm so failing college.

Haha, I installed Oblivion about three days ago due to Skyrim. Now I actually have never finished Oblivion before, but I swear that I will before Skyrim comes out, god damn it.

At 6/12/11 06:24 AM, Snuff wrote: since I got it from my GOTY version (lol Dean)

Shut up Snuff :(

I'm going to take a walk into town shortly so I'll pop into GameStation and see if they happen to have a copy and if it's a reasonable price I might buy it, but there's like a 90% chance they wont have it. Although if I find a copy of Two Worlds 2, I'm buying that instead.

At 6/12/11 06:53 AM, Dean wrote: I'm buying Two Worlds 2 instead of Oblivion.

...

At 6/12/11 07:16 AM, Snuff wrote:

At 6/12/11 06:53 AM, Dean wrote: I'm buying Two Worlds 2 instead of Oblivion.

...

I heard that Two Worlds 2 is actually a pretty good game. I've yet to play it, but apparently it fixed most of the problems the first had, or something.

It does surprise me how much negative feedback the level scaling in Oblivion had. Then again, the last time I played an RPG with level scaling was Final Fantasy VIII and that was a horrible use of level scaling. I thought it made more sense to use it in Oblivion.

Damn, just talking about The Elder Scrolls makes me want to get back to Oblivion, even if it's a flawed game. I've got other stuff to do and maybe I'll just waste my life when Skyrim comes out. That's assuming I'm still out of a job by then and if my laptop could run it. If my laptop fails to run it, it'll be very tempting to get a desktop just for this game.

BRING BACK MORROWIND'S COMBAT

At 6/12/11 10:05 AM, naronic wrote: BRING BACK MORROWIND'S COMBAT

BRING BACK CLIFF RACERS

At 6/12/11 09:11 AM, Bahamut wrote: It does surprise me how much negative feedback the level scaling in Oblivion had.

I honestly never thought it was that bad.

At 6/13/11 05:47 PM, LulzCal wrote: I honestly never thought it was that bad.

It's not so much bad, it's just less enjoyable for me than games that don't use level scaling.

At 6/13/11 05:50 PM, Dean wrote:

At 6/13/11 05:47 PM, LulzCal wrote: I honestly never thought it was that bad.

It's not so much bad, it's just less enjoyable for me than games that don't use level scaling.

I don't really understand what the term Level Scaling means.

Is it that as you level up, monsters also level up? Or is it that they don't level up? Or something completely different.

At 6/15/11 07:08 AM, Snuff wrote: I don't really understand what the term Level Scaling means.

Is it that as you level up, monsters also level up? Or is it that they don't level up? Or something completely different.

Yea, the enemies basically increase in strength as you do. It's meant to make the game more of a challenge, but I find that it sort of defeats the point in levelling up. I prefer there to be enemies that are far stronger than me and those who are far weaker.