Java is also free. Flash is very expensive.

Java is much more powerful and runs faster than Flash.

But Java can take longer to develop for than Flash, at least for small games.

But the main reason I use Flash is because you can't submit Java games to Newgrounds!

Where's Java's portal on newgrounds?

Exactly.

Rather dumb asking someone to choose between flash and java on a flash forum.

well well i think flash is better horay for flash

I hold no grudge against Java, but I just love the cartoony style Flash can create in games such as Alien Hominid.
Penboy

At 10/10/06 06:44 PM, axcho wrote: Java is much more powerful and runs faster than Flash.

Look, Java is a SCRIPT platform. That means it executes it's script and only then represents the data the script generated on the screen. Flash is made for ANIMATIONS, it executes vectors and represents them on the screen, and AS is just an add-on, it's not a platform for executing scripts. If you want to get Java owned so hard already, get Virtools and see how 'hard' it is to make a three-dimensional game applet (or program, or console game) with that.

But Java can take longer to develop for than Flash, at least for small games.

Use Processing.

But the main reason I use Flash is because you can't submit Java games to Newgrounds!

That's because Java applets are ugly and have large filesizes and, most importantly, because of my first presented argument.

Java is brilliant for complicated games with lots to handle, like runescape (imagine trying to make that). Java can do anything flash can do but flash is better purely for simplicity, and is popular because of the visual IDE. To prove my point, some flash players are written in java (and the player is what actually renders the file). Not all java games are ugly, in fact any game the doesn't have the right amount of effort into graphics etc. is ugly. What do you think the blam system is for?
Just google arcade emulations or something, i found some really good ones a while back.
Also, most good applets are in lotsof files. A portal could be created, but would be very complex.

Now AS:
Flash can create minimal software. For example, there is a swf2exe application that was made in flash then converted using itself. The only problem is the player.
For example, once you get past file permissions, you could easily make a nice mp3 player in flash, it just wouldn't have the power java does.

I started with java and am now playing with flash and i can tell you a few things. java doesn't draw well from what i can see from it but you can import pictures and make a sort of slide show that would emulate animated frames. flash although great for drawing doesn't just yet have to power to go into things java can do. Though on a simple level they both program equally well java will be able to acomplish things AS can only dream of right now. I don't have an example right now b/c im not the most advanced programer but i know its true. They are 2 very different things you have to understand and both surpass the other in something so how about we agree to get along and use them both together and make some really crazy things. I know ill be trying.

Java can draw perfectly well, I told you, the player renders- I told you, some flash players are written in java.
If you had the skills and pationce, you could create any movie in java. Just google java svg.
(Scalable Vector Graphics or SVG is what flash is based around.

Hmmm, I'd just have to go with flash, it's kinda like my default.

At 10/9/06 02:36 PM, omarshaaban wrote: but flash doesnt have 3d engine and that makes me nervous !!
why didnt they put 3d engine in flash like director?

You can still make your own custom-3d classes. Some people have made 3D games in flash... Like Andre Michelle.

Oh yeah lol. I preffer Flash because Java doesn't doo as much on a per-line basis.
For example Java doesn't have anti-aliasing like flash does.

It's true that flash isn't quite as powerful as Java, but AS has so many work arounds.

For example Flash only suppors Affine transformation matrices, yet people have been able to acomplish AMAZING 3D texture mapping: http://www.flashsandy.org/sources/1_1/demos/k itty/

Sure, it's not perfect, but it's really good. I woudl find this REALLY difficult to replicate in JAVA... I mean the sheer flexibility of teh model is a winner!

Java has libraries for anti-aliasing...

Anyway, what we are coming to here is that Java is good for nothing while Flash is good for SOMETHING.

2d, Flash wins. 3d, Virtools wins. Online apps, Flash. Offline apps, Visual.
Java is something inbetween, not exactly exceptional at anything.

so wait in java you dont have to hardcode arrays of points to make 3d models? then how do you do it? is there like a 3d builder built into it? do you reference external 3dsmax files? that may be simple but you have no control over the graphics engine (i would assume). and if you programmed it you could have ps3 3d graphics, in flash. it would just take hours to render each frame. c++ and assembly dont have 3d modeling, and thats what they use for video games. flash 9 is going in the right direction. theyre making it faster, allowing the programmer to do much more.

flash is better, its much easier to showcase your work.

At 10/10/06 04:03 PM, Cybex wrote: Nope. AS is a scripting language, not a programming language.

and so is Java, Java is not a programming language, it is a scripting language no matter what some people say, Java is a scripting language by definition, it is not run by the machine, but by a virtual machine in bytecode, thereby making it a scripting language no matter what you can do with it

At 11/23/06 12:27 PM, ImpotentBoy2 wrote: flash is better, its much easier to showcase your work.

Java is good in that you can get tons of uploads and plug-ins.
Some of which have 3D support. 3D support means the you can create 3D objects easily with code, so instead of plotting tons of points and making them move around with custom-made code; you would just go:
(Example)

my_cube = new Cube(100,100,100)
my_cube. color=something
my_cube.texture=my_image

... Something like this.

Macromedia Director has excellent 3D support.
But lingo is a bit of a Java in terms of display; it does display WAY better than Java... But it doesn't have proper anti-aliasing and it can only move around objects on a per-pixel basis... In flash however, they have this clever technology that allows the line to appear to move 1/2 a pixel, 1/2 a pixel.... All thanks to its awesome anti-alias.

At 10/9/06 11:57 AM, edit-undo wrote:

At 10/9/06 11:36 AM, Cybex wrote: You can't compare flash with java. It's like comparing a pencil with a pen.

Pencil you can rub out, but pen looks better.

Does it? Sure, it's higher contrast, but you can get a lot more tonal quality with a pencil.

They both smudge,

Pens don't smudge once the ink has dried. Some pens dry near-instantly.

but pencil is cheaper.

Depends on pen/pencil.

Pencil wins.

Depends on the purpose.

I assume you all know though that NASA spent billions developing a pen to write in outer space? The Russians on the other hand used a pencil.

FlashvJava: I have difficulty getting Java stuff to run, so I'm sure others would too. Flash players are more ubiquitous. Visual interface. Better for me.

At 10/9/06 11:10 AM, omarshaaban wrote: Well i decided to make a comarison between flash and java so i and other peaple can decide which to choose in making games:
points *java* *flash*
apllet size: # large # very small

What? I can generate very small class files, much smaller than swf's which do the same. Flash arn't even called applets.

3d function : # true # false

Flash can do 3D, so can Java.

multiplayer : # true # true but a bit hard

LOL... You seriously think multiplayer in flash is harder than in java? It can be done with both using sockets, and i'd say flash is easier.

the look or : # as the maker or coder like! # arty look (vector graphics i think)

Either can do any type of graphics. I can do Raster in flash aswell.

level of scripts hard easy

No, just no.

well this i have collected with my basic knolwedge so please help me to put some more points i mean advandges and disadvantges or your opinion about java and flash in game devolopment

Basic knowledge? You have no knowledge atall, you just have a pirated copy of flash and have played Runescape and think you know about Java/Flash.

thanx for reading
(sorry for my english my keyboard sucks and i mistaken while writing)

Your keyboard sucks? That is no excuse for you not being able to spell.

That is my response to your Java vs Flash arguement.

At 10/9/06 11:28 AM, omarshaaban wrote: but flash doesnt suport 3d shame!!

Flash DOES support 3d, with the use of swift 3d or actionscripting, you can do excellent 3d artwork