00:00
00:00
Newgrounds Background Image Theme

MssLibitina just joined the crew!

We need you on the team, too.

Support Newgrounds and get tons of perks for just $2.99!

Create a Free Account and then..

Become a Supporter!

What is Conservatism...Really

1,149 Views | 15 Replies

What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-02 19:43:28


Introducing Conservatism

As Russell Kirk observed, one of conservatism's strengths is its tendency to resist definition. Conservatism does not reduce itself to some simple formula. At their best, the people you might call conservatives maintain a stance that is decisively un-ideological.

So what then is conservatism? Answers to that question are as various as the people who reasonably rely on the past wisdom to resist radical re-organizations of society.

Conservatism has its roots in the ancient world. Since 'The Republic of Plato', conservativism has been a series of attempts by rare, cultivated individuals (like Socrates) to induce others to think critically about the complexity of society. The conservative resists the simple formulas of the tyrant, the utopianist or the mob... not to mention the pollster, the sociologist, or the advertiser.

Abraham Lincoln famously described conservatism as the "adherence to the old and tried to the new and untried." In general, this is basically right. However, conservatives need not be opposed to change per se. Simply look at the changes Lincoln committed himself to: the creation of a federal income tax and a modern military, and an end to slavery in the U.S.

When William F. Buckley and the rest of the editors at 'National Review' stand athwart history yelling "Stop!," one has to wonder just what exactly they intend to obstruct. The twentieth century has created a confusion of somewhat contradictory models of conservatism. Ayn Rand and Patrick Buchanan have, for example, virtually nothing in common. Here, are conservatives grouped into three schools of opinion, those who defend traditional moral, cultural, and economic conditions. In reality, these schools of thought frequently overlap.

1. The Moral Order

Defenders of the traditional moral order tend to be Christian, but need not be. Conservative legal scholars and social scientists sometimes represent these moral positions without being overtly religious.

2. Cultural Conservatives
Cultural conservatives are perhaps the group least represented in the mainstream of current conservative opinion. They rather tend to dread the mainstream. Since the time of George Santayana and Henry Adams, they have inclined towards isolation and introversion.

3. Libertarian Economists and Anti-Statists

Conservatism since the beginning of the Cold War has provided a haven for old-fashioned laissez-faire liberals (as opposed to those "liberals" who are radically egalitarian).

In their opposition to statism, conservatives of the past often defended the eccentric individual against the conforming powers of modern society. However, the radical provocateurs of the past few decades have greatly altered the public's perception. Today, people tend to associate conservatism with moral-majority blue-noses. Liberalism, by contrast, appears to be the party of open-armed acceptance.

-Author unknown, but edited by me

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-02 20:47:52


What is Conservatism...Really?

One step left of facism?

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-02 20:54:19


fascism has nothing to do with conservatism

try reading before you post plz

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-02 20:58:45


At 12/2/02 08:54 PM, Commander-K25 wrote: fascism has nothing to do with conservatism

try reading before you post plz

Whaaa? You asked what conservatism is, it's left of facism. I did not say it was facism, I said it was left of facism. Wheres the problem?

Communism-Socialism-Liberalism-Conservatism-Facism

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-02 21:21:46


Eh, anyway my belief in personal freedom draws me to the libretarian ideology, yet my belief in economic regulation draws me back away.

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-03 13:40:01


Conservatives = Backward Progressives
OR
Conservatives = Wanting to "go back" to something which never existed

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-03 17:49:19


Ok man so you wrote a very nice report on the text book definitions of conservatism in America. However how is it applied? I think it's a question of priorities and perspective.

American conservatism believes that the government should support large industries because said large industries in times of success will bring up the standard of living of the common employee.

They also believe in strong military and police institutions to protect the average citizen and US interests abroad.

I know I've greatly simplified things but that is a major part of there basic principals. I think their ideology is imbalanced. Corporations have shown time and again that they have no interest in protecting the average citizens. Names like Enron, Firestone, Exxon, Voicestream wireless, Microsoft and the whole health insurance industry come to mind. Hell I've worked for companies that have some pretty shady business policies and have screwed people over daily due to company policy. I have NO interest in seeing people like this running education and other public institutions.

The conservative movement also sees no reason to try to rehabilitate criminals to get them off the streets. I'm not talking about murderers or rapists. I'm talking about narcotics trafficking and thieves. There answer is longer jail sentences and a larger police force, that isn't there to protect the people. It is out there to protect property...... These people need stability and order, not a cage. When they get out they will be meaner and do even more outragoues things because they have no place in normal society. I have seen with my own eyes how the conservative justice system turns people into career criminals.

The conservative movement isn't involved in rebuilding ghettos or creating social programs to give people the tools to get living wage employment. However the liberal movement is and that is why people say they have open arms for everyone.

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-03 19:19:08


At 12/3/02 05:49 PM, napalm6b wrote: Ok man so you wrote a very nice report on the text book definitions of conservatism in America. However how is it applied? I think it's a question of priorities and perspective.

American conservatism believes that the government should support large industries because said large industries in times of success will bring up the standard of living of the common employee.

Where'd you get that from? Conservatives generally believe in a free enterprise system. It is the liberal educational system that has taught you that free enterprise = manipulative big business. Conservatives tend to support smaller private businesses run by ordinary people.

That in fact goes to the nuumber one myth about conservatives, that they want big corporations and an ultra-powerful central government. Conservatives in fact support and believe in the common man's ability to manage and think for himself rather than be controlled and micromanaged by government such as in a welfare state.


They also believe in strong military and police institutions to protect the average citizen and US interests abroad.

That is true. "World Peace" may be a nice ideal but we must be realistic. Nations must still be defended by people with guns.


I know I've greatly simplified things but that is a major part of there basic principals. I think their ideology is imbalanced. Corporations have shown time and again that they have no interest in protecting the average citizens. Names like Enron, Firestone, Exxon, Voicestream wireless, Microsoft and the whole health insurance industry come to mind. Hell I've worked for companies that have some pretty shady business policies and have screwed people over daily due to company policy. I have NO interest in seeing people like this running education and other public institutions.

Of course not and conservatives agree. Conservatism is based upon ethical and moral principles. Now why do you seem to associate big, shady corporations and conservatives? THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER!


The conservative movement also sees no reason to try to rehabilitate criminals to get them off the streets. I'm not talking about murderers or rapists. I'm talking about narcotics trafficking and thieves. There answer is longer jail sentences and a larger police force, that isn't there to protect the people. It is out there to protect property...... These people need stability and order, not a cage. When they get out they will be meaner and do even more outragoues things because they have no place in normal society. I have seen with my own eyes how the conservative justice system turns people into career criminals.

You once again have been mislead about what conservatism is. A harsh police state is not the answer, I agree. The "stability" you mention is exactly what conservatives are striving for, first and foremost. The main thing we want is a sane and stable society. Most of modern crime and degredation is a result of the collapse of stable society, the core of which is the destruction of the nuclear family. All of this was brought about by liberalism, starting in the 60's.


The conservative movement isn't involved in rebuilding ghettos or creating social programs to give people the tools to get living wage employment. However the liberal movement is and that is why people say they have open arms for everyone.

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-04 18:22:14


At 12/3/02 07:19 PM, Commander-K25 wrote:
At 12/3/02 05:49 PM, napalm6b wrote: Ok man so you wrote a very nice report on the text book definitions of conservatism in America. However how is it applied? I think it's a question of priorities and perspective.

American conservatism believes that the government should support large industries because said large industries in times of success will bring up the standard of living of the common employee.
Where'd you get that from?

Remember Ronald Regan and trickle down economics, those were his own words?!? Plus you have every state in the country giving corporations big tax breaks to build plants to boost employment. Who do you think pays that tab? The average guy who can't start his own business because he's paying for corporate welfare.

George Bush also shot down a bill that would disallow large corporations from seting up their head offices in foreign countries to avoid taxes. Do you really believe that helps the common man?

Conservatives in fact support and believe in the common man's ability to manage and think for himself rather than be controlled and micromanaged by government such as in a welfare state.

The liberal movement isn't trying to create a welfare state. The liberal movement feels that since this is one of the richest countries in the world, maybe some of our vast resources could be set aside to assist the less fortunate.

"World Peace" may be a nice ideal but we must be realistic. Nations must still be defended by people with guns.

I agree we have the most powerful military in the world and that is all well and good. However I feel the conservative leadership in the last several years has always been interested in expanding or military forces needlessly. For example at the start of Bush Jr.s presidency he was restarting the anti-ballistic missile program.

Of course not and conservatives agree. Conservatism is based upon ethical and moral principles. Now why do you seem to associate big, shady corporations and conservatives? THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER!

Now you are either misinformed or flat out lying. Maybe the average Republican isn't supported by big business but the leadership you voted for is. Don't make me get a list of the Bush administrations corporate sponsores dude!

You once again have been mislead about what conservatism is. A harsh police state is not the answer, I agree. The "stability" you mention is exactly what conservatives are striving for, first and foremost.

How have I been mislead? By god how many times have we all heard about how tough republicans are on crime. How they are going to expand local police forces and extend jail terms. Where do you think a police state arises from? The majority of crime and cultural instability is in a large part due to poverty and loss of hope in the lower economic classes. What has the conservative movement done to combat this other than put more people in prison?

The main thing we want is a sane and stable society. Most of modern crime and degredation is a result of the collapse of stable society, the core of which is the destruction of the nuclear family. All of this was brought about by liberalism, starting in the 60's.

America was only stable in a period between 1870-1910 Since then we've had WW1 Great Depression WW2 the wars against communism from the 50's-80's. There is more to America than your suburban whitebread neighborhood believe it or not. Even if most conservatives try to ignore it.

blah blah blah blah

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-06 16:04:05


Hey man this is a good discussion! I'd like to see some more input from someone with half a brain, preferably from the conservative camp!

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-06 17:20:32


At 12/6/02 04:04 PM, napalm6b wrote: Hey man this is a good discussion! I'd like to see some more input from someone with half a brain, preferably from the conservative camp!

I am as conservative as I find useful, and I do have more than HALF a brain, so chew on this. "conservatives" (Repulicans) in America and "liberals" (Democrats) in America are technically backwards, the farther you move "to the left" government control and laws increase to the point of communism. And the farther you move "to the Right" gov. control and laws should decrease to the point of anarchy. What's backwards is "liberals" in America are the ones trying to legalize marijuana and gay marriage while the "conservatives" are trying to make more anti-terror laws allowing CIA officials to kill suspects. Its backwards dammit, think about it, libertarians are right-wing and don't go around trying to increase gov.control, And when was the last time you saw a socialist trying to legalize marijuana. The most relevant analogy to this craziness is the Yin and Yang, where the Dems. though left, have righty ideas and the Reps. though right, have lefty ideas.


...

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-06 17:40:12


!ATTENTION ALL WHO ARE BORED!

Facism, although popularly called so, is not right wing. How can a dictatorship/ totalitarian state ever be considered right wing? The spectrum goes like this,
communism <-(dictatorships,police states) <-socialism <-Green party <-Democrats <-(moderates)-> Republicans -> Libertarians -> Anarchy. If I'm wrong and you put facism on the right, where does anarchy go? It is certainly the opposite of communism, and communism is left-wing, therefor it is right, but how can Hitlers gov. be remotely similar to ANARCHY when his government was a poster child for supreme CONTROL!
p.s. anarchy implies no gov. control at all.


...

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-06 19:24:39


At 12/6/02 05:20 PM, promontorium wrote:
At 12/6/02 04:04 PM, napalm6b wrote: Hey man this is a good discussion! I'd like to see some more input from someone with half a brain, preferably from the conservative camp!
I am as conservative as I find useful, and I do have more than HALF a brain, so chew on this. "conservatives" (Repulicans) in America and "liberals" (Democrats) in America are technically backwards, the farther you move "to the left" government control and laws increase to the point of communism. And the farther you move "to the Right" gov. control and laws should decrease to the point of anarchy.

What? Totalitarianism exists on both sides of the spectrum. You have Communism on the left, which exercises complete gov't control. And you have facism on the right, which exercises comple gov't control.

In theory The left wants less economic freedom and more personal freedom.

In theory The right wants to less personal freedom and more economic freedom.

Anarchy can vary, however the main principle is this: Absence of any form of political authority. In other words Complete enconomic and complete personal freedom. This is neither left nor right on the political spectrum.

A country like America practices Conservatism, a country like Canada practices Liberalism, and countries like Sweden practice Socialism.

Communism(left totalitarianism) -- Socialism -- Liberalism -- Conservatism -- Facism(right totalitarianism)

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-07 05:17:06


While you guys sound pretty literate and such, this subject hasn't gone very deep. Lets see if my rantings can make it go deeper. Ready! Fire! Aim!

The words "Conservative" and "Liberal" hardly have a place in our society today. It is more Right and Left. Its doesnt sound as pretty... but really! How many Hard Right thinkers are conservative? How many Hard Left are actually liberal?

Ok... Fascism? That is a full spectrum word, and is commonly applied to totalitarian regimes.

Now as for the old "Look you have more in common with the sociopathic, dictatorial, regimes than we do!" argument: Come on!

Lets look at what was Nazi Germany: Intolerance + Socialism = Genocide.*More on this point at the end*

Now no one need to debate about which side of the camp Socialism came from. Unfortunately, most Idealouges are Leftist in origin. And most Idealouges of the past 150 years have been... well... not to beneficial to anyone.

Sixty percent of racial intolerance, on the other hand, belongs to the Right side of the camp. You could argue the percentages, but that is symantics (or statistics, which are just as silly) The difference here, is that it is dying out. It is decaying away. No longer in the main stream of thought. It hasn't been for decades.

Since the early 90's, when The Great Experiment fell on its face, Left thinkers have been... well all over the damned place. Many couldn't believe it when the biggest, greatest, utopiatarian society that has ever graced (plagued) the earth, tripped on its own shoe laces and impaled itself on the big spike named 'Capitalist Swine Amerika'. Shock, disbelief, and whatnot insued in the far left thinkers who secretly (sometimes not so secretly) wanted communism to make everything better.
Some others in the left, jumped for joy. This was the worlds great new chance for Peace! They wondered, "How can we do it?". Well, they turned to the UN. They asked the UN to make 'Peace'(TM) the Official World Policy. Meanwhile those (left or right) with some foresight or a knowledge of history were (are) getting a sicking sense of Deja Vu.

Here we stand today!

Now, what with my annoyingly too short and incomplete to educate, but too long for a speedy read, recap on the great failures of the 20th century, most of you have probably pegged me as coming from the right. Well, you got me.

I may have gone off on a tangent, but I learned early on that the best defense is a good offense. And to the point I promised earlier on!

*Only when we combine the worst of our naivete and our excessive paranoia can we kill off 1/3 of a race of people. Yay for cooperation. It is never all one person's fault when something goes bad. The question is: after all is said and done, will we not repeat our mistakes? It may be our last chance.*

Well, I succeeded in writing a barely coherent post, but it is 3:12am where I live, and... honestly I kinda wanted to do that :P
Hope I contributed in some fashion or another.

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-07 06:47:57


The words "Conservative" and "Liberal" hardly have a place in our society today. It is more Right and Left. Its doesnt sound as pretty... but really! How many Hard Right thinkers are conservative? How many Hard Left are actually liberal?

I can think of quite a lot of hard right thinkers which are actually Conservative. I can't think of any hard left thinkers which are liberal because liberal is a centerist term. (Which just goes to show how polarised American politics is.)

Ok... Fascism? That is a full spectrum word, and is commonly applied to totalitarian regimes.

I agree.

Now as for the old "Look you have more in common with the sociopathic, dictatorial, regimes than we do!" argument: Come on!

Lets look at what was Nazi Germany: Intolerance + Socialism = Genocide.*More on this point at the end*

The point of Socialism is to free the working class and to make everyone equal, National Socialism did not do that. Clearly ideas of sexual and racial inequality can not be joined with ideas of total equality. Hitler was in fact hostile to Socialist ideas, but used it as it was a popular political philosophy at the time.

Sixty percent of racial intolerance, on the other hand, belongs to the Right side of the camp. You could argue the percentages, but that is symantics (or statistics, which are just as silly)

No, all of the racial intolerance belongs to the right side. Leftist ideas believe in more equality for all. Nationalism prides on culture over another(and racism one people over another), how is that going to achieve equality for all?

The difference here, is that it is dying out. It is decaying away. No longer in the main stream of thought. It hasn't been for decades.

It hasn't been in the U.S.A., but being Americocentric you didn't realise.

Meanwhile those (left or right) with some foresight or a knowledge of history were (are) getting a sicking sense of Deja Vu.

Is this some reference to the LoN? One of the biggest problem the LoN faced is that America did not join it.

Response to What is Conservatism...Really 2002-12-07 08:28:32


Its funny, sometimes I just forget to go to sleep.

Anyways:
"...sickening sense of Deja Vu." Refers to the "Great Experiment", in its entirety, and the events that lead to its failure. That, of course being the Socialist and Communist type governments of the 20th century.

To expound: Since the end of the Cold War, most of nations of "The West" were bathed in glorious afterglow. If you know that you, your family, and all that you know could be gone because of a diplomatic "Oops" is going to build up some stress. Similarly if you are told that it is all over and that everyone is safe and sane again, that stress is going to evaporate.
Anyway, my point is that many seemed to turn to the United Nations, many for many defferent reasons, but almost all a result of the evaporation of the Cold War. Imagining the UN as some (particularly in Western Europe) would have it, you see a Global Organization with influence if not control in its members domestic affairs. Somewhat like a really strong EU.

Damnit, I have to split, and may not be back (this is my first time here). If I get back, I'll try to finish that tought.