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Is a pure democracy pracital?

1,681 Views | 11 Replies

Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-09 15:58:40


It isn't a secret that the United States isn't really a democracy, but a republic whose citizens claim otherwise. Lately, though, I've been wondering if a pure democracy is practical, or even really possible. A democracy where each and every person had a direct say in the decisions made by the country.

Now from what I can see, there are really four things keeping this from becoming practical, and that is:

A) people's ignorance of the issues
B) the power of money to sway opinion
C) giving every citizen the resources to vote
D) the multitude of issues to vote on

So the model I have been turning over in my mind to combat these problems goes like this. To combat A, we can bring political issues into more direct focus. Encourage newspapers to have a political section in the newspaper, the radio to devote time to talk about political issues (more than it does currently, at least), and to have channels on the TV devoted to political debate.

Now at the beginning of the week, five issues are selected and are debated for the entire week. Politicians or anyone really thats good at political debate would debate over these issues over the course of the entire week, with reruns of the day's debates played at night to increase exposure, and periodically the channels will summarize and provide a list of pros and cons for each side of each issue (while keeping as objective as possible - I'll get to this later). Throughout the week, through ads on other TV stations, for example, people will be encouraged to become informed on the issues and to vote. Then on Sunday, the issues will be summarized throughout the day, and people can visit kiosks or go on the internet themselves, log in, and vote for these issues, as well as vote on what issues should be discussed for the following week. Then once the outcome is decided, the appropriate laws (or whatever) are put into effect.

Now I haven't addressed the rest of the problems yet. The power of money to sway opinion, for instance, could be devastating, as lobbyists would instead turn to the people and give gifts to encourage them to vote one way or another. About the only way to combat this is to encourage people to keep informed and make up their own minds, and then keep the summaries of the issues as objective as possible, and a way to keep the media objective is competition, much like how a news channel has to keep honest to keep its integrity and its audience today.

The last problem I see is that the multitude of issues cannot possibly be covered with this system (and the really important issues might never get brought to the table). For that I suggest we still keep a representative body that can continue to make decisions and laws, but basically use this model as a 'check' on that system; much like the three branches of government can 'check' each other, the people can 'check' the government.

Why do I think it's important that something like this exists at all? First, we pride ourselves on being a nation "Of the people, for the people, and by the people", yet, in general, the people have such a small voice, if any voice at all. On top of this, we vote on people with a full package of issues, not on issues individually, which means if you agree with a person on one issue, but not on another, you have to decide which is most important to you and sacrifice the other issue. The current system also detaches people from the issues and makes them feel like they aren't in control of their own lives. This model allows people to WANT to keep informed on current issues, to be more knowledgeable, and to have a direct impact on how their nation runs.

So is this practical? Is some other model more practical than the one I have devised? Is this model much closer to a pure democracy? What are the flaws in this model?

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-09 19:07:32


Man cannot handle pure oxygen.
So it is with most things.

Majority rule is not a good idea (think angry mob) and mankind truly does not want it.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-09 19:20:54


America is a reprasentive democracy. The people elect other people to talk on their behalf making this a democracy.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-09 23:42:32


No, a pure democracy is not practical. It is too susceptible to outside influence.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-10 18:55:54


That seems like a good theory up front, but it would only work on paper. The truth and fact is that most of the country has a complete lack of intelligence on politics and can be swayed any way by a major television station like CNN.
So if you get past the point that people would not make good decisions (if you have representitives that isn't a pure democracy, is it?), you have the factor of how the country would remain in control. The answer:

Fear or fundamentalism.

And who would be the government? The people. So different groups of people would claim control like a mob, and dictate the orders to all of its "citizens". Translation: Anatchy sounds cool until you have a man with a gun pointed to your head telling you what to do. Is that freedom?

Then you would be stuck with the money problem. Anyone with money would have the power to suade the people, and television brainwashing wouldn't help either, because the people owning the television and preaching propaganda would be the guys with the most money.

Complete democracy= Fascism.

There are similarities to that system and our way of life now. Is that unfair? Yes. No government offers a "perfect" solution except for disutopias (1984, Brave New World... etc.) and the such where there is no freedom. It sucks, but that's life.

Remember, government is only a temporary solution and we will probably find ourselves in another world wide revolution withing the next few hundred years. Pure democracy is fascism in reality.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-10 19:05:12


Did I say anatchy in my last post? Pardon me, I meant ANARCHY. Simple typo.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-11 04:30:13


That seems like a good theory up front, but it would only work on paper. The truth and fact is that most of the country has a complete lack of intelligence on politics and can be swayed any way by a major television station like CNN.

Ignorance can be overthrown by intelligence.

And who would be the government? The people. So different groups of people would claim control like a mob, and dictate the orders to all of its "citizens". Translation: Anatchy sounds cool until you have a man with a gun pointed to your head telling you what to do. Is that freedom?

Translation: You know one thing about Anarchy, but you are ignorant of the social structure that would be involved.

Then you would be stuck with the money problem. Anyone with money would have the power to suade the people, and television brainwashing wouldn't help either, because the people owning the television and preaching propaganda would be the guys with the most money.

You can resist propaganda you know.

Complete democracy= Fascism.

Facism is when you are not allowed to express your opinons.(Also having your conomy focused on war but that's moot) Complete Democracy is the opposite.

There are similarities to that system and our way of life now.

Yes, Facism and America seem to go hand in hand.

Is that unfair? Yes. No government offers a "perfect" solution except for disutopias (1984, Brave New World... etc.) and the such where there is no freedom. It sucks, but that's life.

It's distopias. Brave New World was free. It was the pinacle of freedom, apart from the fact they made some people stupid.

Remember, government is only a temporary solution and we will probably find ourselves in another world wide revolution withing the next few hundred years. Pure democracy is fascism in reality.

Read above.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-11 08:49:14


Actually, it is dystopia.

Also, a primary component of Fascist governments is intense sanctioned racism which may lead to genocide. This is not a component of American Society despite what your punk pands wish to tell you.

Anarchy means to have no government.
Good luck with such a society. There is no structure. If you claim there is, then you do not have anarchy.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-18 16:41:57


Cable, as much as I love your political ranting, and as much as I think the idea as a good one, I can't agree with it, on one simple thing: the stupidity and ignorance of the general population. People whine, bitch, and moan about the political systems, and what candidate or politician is doing what this week, but they don't really do anything about it. They don't vote, or write letter, lobby, or debate. The idly sit back and watch what they hate.


Quote of the day: @Nysssa "What is the word I want to use here?" @freakapotimus "Taint".

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-19 02:59:45


cable: I suggested a similar idea a while back. It's more a default than anything though, not really wanting any non-democratic society, but being really dissatisfied with represenative democracy.

Since then though, I have found myself collapsing more and more into nihilism and cynicism. Humanity sickens me. I realise now that I really don't want most of the people around me making any decisions. I am so alienated from their thought patterns. They scare me and trouble me. I don't want to live in their kinds of world. That having been said though, they probably think the same about me.

That's what democracy is though. It's a sort of compromise where everyone respects each other out of fear of personal loss or hell in some way. Humans certainly aren't alturistic and all striving towards utopia.

It's a real dilemma for me then because there seems to be no ideal system, no matter who has a say, and by how much.

Personally, I'd like to be left the fuck alone by everyone else and be able to interact with whom I like, when I like. I'd like to be able to avoid having to rely upon others or be a member of a society, except when I choose.

That's impossible of course though, unless I'd like to isolate myself as a hermit in a cave with no roads and electricity. Also, then I'd probably get really bored (even with the internet) and whine even more than I already do.

So what then? I don't know. Maybe this is just a phase, but I feel so totally full of despair at the human race and my membership within it. These days, it's almost more about my own personal survival (especially on a psychological level) when I must interact and stand up and be counted as a human.

God, what a fucking terrible situation.

Can anyone give me a body and mind transplant into that of a hermit crab?

shorbe

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-19 13:30:34


You can't have a direct popular vote... People in urban areas would always win the votes, just because they have more people behind them. This would be a problem, just because people who lived in New York City, Los Angeles, etc., would always get their say, and people who lived in rural areas would never get anything they wanted.

Response to Is a pure democracy pracital? 2001-10-19 23:26:52


At 10/19/01 01:30 PM, Redhotchilis wrote: You can't have a direct popular vote... People in urban areas would always win the votes, just because they have more people behind them. This would be a problem, just because people who lived in New York City, Los Angeles, etc., would always get their say, and people who lived in rural areas would never get anything they wanted.

That assumes that everyone in the cities would vote the same way. Also, what makes it any more fair to hold the process to ransom because of a minority and make the majority bow down to that? It's equally problematic in other ways. I'm not from the country, and personally, I couldn't give a fuck about them, so why should a handful of hicks hold sway over decisions affecting my life?

shorbe