http://www.vocativ.com/430439/criminal-mental-health-project-privacy/

Yup, they've started surveillance on the Mentally Ill. No rights, no diagnosis, no doctor, no shit; once they think you're crazy, it's off with the hounds.

Oh, and right to due process?

HAHAHAHhhAahHAHAhhahah!

Oh man, what year do you think this is, 1968? "due process" LOLOLOL

I hope @Stamper's Ok

At 6/15/17 05:35 PM, Jurornumber3 wrote: About time.

The nutcases of society cannot be allowed to roam around freely and unchecked any longer.

At 6/15/17 05:38 PM, Dynastywarriors5 wrote: Being crazy should be a crime

Oh you guys....

It's like this, see? Once you divide the crazy from the sane, then the crazy have to be in a separate group, and we all know how that one ends.

Well that's tragic.

Also, almost didn't recognize you there with the new profile pic. It's nice btw.

At 6/15/17 06:35 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

At 6/15/17 05:35 PM, Jurornumber3 wrote: About time.

The nutcases of society cannot be allowed to roam around freely and unchecked any longer.

It's like this, see? Once you divide the crazy from the sane, then the crazy have to be in a separate group, and we all know how that one ends.

And there goes my SSI checks too.

this is some minority report type shit.

There needs to be a middle ground respecting both the rights of the mentally ill and the people around them. When my husband and I were newlyweds, we lived in an apartment complex where the bipolar guy living upstairs regularly terrorized us and other neighbors. He often lashed out, sometimes violently, because he believed he had the right to blast his music at all hours of the night, and that he should be allowed to do so because he was disabled.

He always seemed to go for me whenever my husband was gone. It was almost as if he knew. There were times I legitimately feared for my safety.

So yes, FUNK is absolutely right there are some serious ethical/legal/rights concerns with this, but consider what deinstitutionalization has done.

At 6/16/17 12:30 AM, Sekhem wrote: with as many mentally ill people (and methheads) as there are in florida, i'm surprised this didn't come way sooner

Yes. Florida.

Do not give them the information they want. Simple as that.

I'm for due process always.

At 6/16/17 12:36 AM, Sekhem wrote:

due process and constitutional rights are cool and everything, but you'll change your tune the second some methhead from dade county shits on the roof of your car and rants about robin williams being killed by obama

thankfully, you can shoot people pretty indiscriminately in florida and programs like this are a step in the right direction as well

I been shot at once. Did not make me less crazy. Also, see anecdote below.

At 6/15/17 10:27 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote:

So yes, FUNK is absolutely right there are some serious ethical/legal/rights concerns with this, but consider what deinstitutionalization has done.

A month and 3 days ago, I was in a bar that was attacked by a suicidal arsonist named Jared Mclemore who set himself and the front of the bar on fire, then ran indoors chasing his girlfriend around. I had to help my friend load out gear around his smouldering body. Yes, he was diagnosed as mentally ill, and had been recently released from legal diversion to a treatment program.

A treatment program that made him crazier than he was before he went in it, and did not neutralize the danger he represented.

Now, as a witness, I know for a fact I am being tracked by the mental health system that created Jared. I know this because they keep offering me counseling, because many of the other witnesses have reported extreme mental trauma. There's somewhat of a social stink over how much money was raised to provide this counseling ( I attended a trauma session in good faith a week after the incident where they basically told us we're all crazy now and should check ourselves into a crisis center. A friend of mine accepted counseling and they put an app on her phone that gives her instant access to a counselor by text.

It's cycle that turns victims into perpetrators. First you suffer trauma, then problem behavior becomes normalized to the victim from life experience, then the victim retaliates with more problem behavior, completing the cycle.

When the Nazis first began, they didn't talk about the Holocaust. They started with the census, and everyone thought it was a great idea.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.--- Martin Niemöller

Where do we draw the line between sick and deserving sympathy, or demented and dangerous? People have always thought I was crazy, but I have a clean criminal record and have worked to support myself my entire adult life. Had I been "treated" for my individuality, I doubt I would be this functional. In fact, I may have ended up like Jared.

When I feel paranoid about this....well... I'm comforted by the fact that apparently my fears are well founded. Wait... fuck...

At 6/16/17 12:55 AM, satanbrain wrote: Do not give them the information they want. Simple as that.

You don't get the right to remain silent, because these are extra-judicial proceedings. The mentally ill don't get due process rights. Anyone can be locked up against their will for three days for "Observation" by a mental health facility without ever having been charged with a crime on merely the accusation of being a threat to themselves or others. This means the depressed who are suspected of being suicidal can be locked up in spite of denying any symptoms. Hiding of suicidal ideation is considered a strong measure of intent to successfully commit suicide without being stopped.

Locking someone up for three days is criminal punishment suitable for drunk drivers and people who commit minor assault. Not wanting to get locked up is an extremely valid incentive to hide all signs of mental illness, especially when that time spend in confinement will be spent with the possibly dangerously mentally ill.

Mental health professionals use the term anosognosia when they want to treat a patient who believes themselves to be mentally healthy against their will. This is generally the rule rather than the exception as people who commit problem behaviors rarely consider their own behavior problematic.

If you think being "normal" will protect you from the mental health industrial complex, you clearly have not met any of it's victims.

At 6/16/17 10:38 AM, FUNKbrs wrote: If you think being "normal" will protect you from the mental health industrial complex, you clearly have not met any of it's victims.

I think I'm not american.

At 6/16/17 12:07 PM, satanbrain wrote:

At 6/16/17 10:38 AM, FUNKbrs wrote: If you think being "normal" will protect you from the mental health industrial complex, you clearly have not met any of it's victims.

I think I'm not american.

So in your case the victims never get free from the psikhuskha to tell their stories?

We lost due process when 9/11 happened. Did no one else notice?

At 6/16/17 06:11 PM, RightTime wrote:

You seem pretty concerned about this judging by the amount of threads you have devoted to it. The question I have is, do you actually intend to do anything constructive about it or just complain about it on the internet?

You're right. I need to scale this up into full blown memes.

Back in my day you couldn't farm memes with web apps that automatically attached text. Each letter had to be attached by hand in MS Paint with a stone tool.

At 6/16/17 07:25 PM, MemeFiend wrote: So we should just let the mentally ill wander around, letting their condition progress, and become a danger to themselves and others?

You assume this is a slippery slope.

Not all mentally ill people become a danger to themselves or others. Some people are just strange.

At 6/16/17 10:08 PM, MemeFiend wrote:

At 6/16/17 09:07 PM, FUNKbrs wrote:

Not all mentally ill people become a danger to themselves or others. Some people are just strange.

And what about those that do?

Threatening others is already a crime. As such it requires a presumption of innocence and judicial oversight.

You sure have right to be worried about this.

At 6/17/17 01:58 PM, MemeFiend wrote:

I feel like you don't really care about the issue or trying to resolve it, you just want to be publicly outraged about it.

Treatment.
Doesn't.
Work.

People come out crazier than they went in. If they didn't, you would constantly hear glowing testimonials of people who's lives were turned around by therapy, such as anger management classes.

However, you generally don't, because, as I said: Treatment doesn't work.

The only practical solution mental health has to treat people with problem behavior is medication, and frankly, sedation.

They turn people into zombies. They might as well still be lobotomizing people.

However, when those people who have been institutionalized to believe their actions are the result of substances instead of circumstances go off their meds, they are MORE imbalanced than before, and commit horrible crimes.

Increasing the number of people on meds will only increase this problem, and since meds are the only practical solution mental health treatment offers, increasing the influence of mental health treatment will also only increase this problem.

I have looked long and hard for those people who feel they were helped by mental health treatment. I have not found them.

There's a mental health problem in this country and it's culminating in public shootings and mass murder.

This is for the best.

Now, go to sleep little child to rythm of the waterjugs.

At 6/17/17 08:59 PM, DarkMatter wrote: There's a mental health problem in this country and it's culminating in public shootings and mass murder.

You seem to be confusing the legal system, which is the system responsible for stopping tragedies, and the health care system, which is designed for curing disease. Crime is not a disease. It's a legal issue.

This is for the best.

I think maybe you have no idea what a concentration camp is.

Now, go to sleep little child to rythm of the waterjugs.

Don't tell me, they're'll be plenty of water jugs in them camps, right? Keep thinking you'll be the one running the camps.

At 6/18/17 10:38 AM, RightTime wrote:

At 6/18/17 10:15 AM, FUNKbrs wrote: I think maybe you have no idea what a concentration camp is.

Godwin's Law seems to suggest that any reasonable discussion here has long since passed and it is time to let this thread sink beneath the waters of the BBS.

Did I ever mention I work in medical billing and literally watch doctors put patients on psych diagnoses so they can enforce medically unnecessary heart medications on them based on the idea that non-adherence to the medication is inherently self-harming and therefore proof of mental illness?

Because this is exactly what I do for a living. And yes, after they put the psyche diagnosis on the patient, they hide the records which is extremely frustrating when I need those records to get the doctors paid.

Yes, inpatient psych wards are pretty much concentration camps. And no, it doesn't count as a full Godwin if I'm talking about something that commonly happens in other countries.

At 6/18/17 11:53 AM, RightTime wrote: You know Scientologists have an outsize hatred of Psychiatry as well. Maybe they would be just up your ally.

To be fair Scientologists prey on the mentally ill, so obviously they see psychiatry as the competition.

But really you're just tipping the iceberg on this. The Anti-psychiatry Movement is much bigger than just an aspect of Scientology.

In fact, if you read up on pro-psychiatry websites that call for a massive expansion of mental health services, you'll find articles like this rebutting that, yes, although the word "bedlam" comes directly from the well publicized horrors of the Bethelem Royal Hospital, psychiatrists are totally respectable now and not the modern version of witch-hunters like Matthew Hopkins who made a small fortune torturing and killing the mentally ill by accusing them of being witches as an excuse to seize their property.

If you really feel like swimming under this iceberg, read this report on nih.gov. Only 40% of involuntary inpatients see their confinement as justified, and 100% of involuntarily admitted patients have huge medical bills (which is how I found out about this) which they are then forced against their wills to pay.

Paranoid about having to pay my $5k deductible in case of involuntary admission? You bet your sweet ass I am. Why should I have to buy a doctor a used car against my will?

At 6/18/17 10:15 AM, FUNKbrs wrote:

At 6/17/17 08:59 PM, DarkMatter wrote:

You seem to be confusing the legal system, which is the system responsible for stopping tragedies, and the health care system, which is designed for curing disease. Crime is not a disease. It's a legal issue.

Mental health is something that leads to crimes these days, therefore both departments should know what's going on.

I think maybe you have no idea what a concentration camp is.

I hear it takes lots of concentration to survive

I would like to see that mental health monitor placed on Narcissistic personality disordered people.
like to see them constantly freaking out over the thought they have a lie detector strapped to them.

At 6/18/17 01:49 PM, DarkMatter wrote:

Mental health is something that leads to crimes these days, therefore both departments should know what's going on.

You don't have to be crazy to be a criminal. In fact, for the worst crimes, having reduced mental capacity is a sign of innocence.

A person with an IQ of 65 may be mentally ill, but is probably not capable of planning a mass murder.

Many completely sane people malinger in order to reduce their legal culpability during sentencing. This is the actual phenomena we're seeing: criminals presenting themselves as sympathetic victims instead of the calculating weasels they are.

I hear it takes lots of concentration to survive

I heard the secret to getting out of a concentration camp is to fly out through the chimney.

At 6/18/17 10:04 PM, RaldonGarspeu wrote: I would like to see that mental health monitor placed on Narcissistic personality disordered people.
like to see them constantly freaking out over the thought they have a lie detector strapped to them.

A true narcissist believes the lie when they tell it. A lie detector can't predict that, and a narcissist would probably be very proud about being able to beat the detector. This may even lead to their belief that they can change the truth through force of will on the occasions they beat the lie detector.

At 6/19/17 10:24 AM, FUNKbrs wrote:
A person with an IQ of 65 may be mentally ill, but is probably not capable of planning a mass murder.

Many completely sane people malinger in order to reduce their legal culpability during sentencing. This is the actual phenomena we're seeing: criminals presenting themselves as sympathetic victims instead of the calculating weasels they are.

That is all theoretical unfortunately, and after a bunch of pubic shootings and gun laws doing jack shit because they disarm victims rather than perps, something has to be done to have some kind of early warning system because right now it's like a tornado or earthquake you really don't know when it's going to happen.

I hear it takes lots of concentration to survive

I heard the secret to getting out of a concentration camp is to fly out through the chimney.

Strange, I heard it was through the underground.

At 6/19/17 04:23 PM, DarkMatter wrote:

.

That is all theoretical unfortunately, and after a bunch of pubic shootings and gun laws doing jack shit because they disarm victims rather than perps, something has to be done to have some kind of early warning system because right now it's like a tornado or earthquake you really don't know when it's going to happen.

The vast majority of people seeking mental health treatment are under/un-employed people malingering for disability benefits because their personalities make them nearly unemployable.

Mental disability is the easiest of the disabilities to fake, and because the honestly mentally ill fear diagnosis because of having experiences with it's stigma, it attracts many the mentally well malingerers.

Most mental illness initiatives are based around getting benefits for the homeless so the stress of homelessness won't make the any crazier.

This report says the rate of malingering among the mentally disabled is nearly 60%

I hear it takes lots of concentration to survive

I heard the secret to getting out of a concentration camp is to fly out through the chimney.

Strange, I heard it was through the underground.

I heard you could only get about 6 feet away from the camp going underground. Unless you're talking about domestic american traditional labor camps, then yes, the underground railroad is your best bet.