Statehood for Puerto Rico?

[LordJaric]

So Puerto Rico will be voting on becoming whether or not they want to become the 51st state again. Although they may have a hard time getting Congress and Trump to accept them if they vote in favor of it.

[Camarohusky]

I'm skeptical that Puerto Rico will ever become a state.

First off, I'm not sure they really want to. Economic desperation may be enough to temporarily change their mind, but once things start to get better they will regret it. Even though PR is still a territory of the US, as of right now thy have the ability to identify as their own country so to speak. Does the Average PR citizen want to become "American" instead of "Pueto Rican"? I don't think so.

Second, and perhaps the biggest hurdle, is the US letting them in.

Manifest Destiny is dead. It's been well over 50 years since we added a state and the attitude of America annexing the World has long since ended. When it comes to statehood, the new question will be "What can PR give the US?" The answer is really not that much. The US already gets much of what it would get, and I don't see America, especially Republican America, as willing to take on an economically strapped island of latinos. Sure, much of the difference in the citizenhood of these people is nominal, but good luck convincing the conservative portion of America that. I see the gotcha staements right now. That this will allow illegals in by the island full. That this will be more welfare of poor minorities.

another interesting issue would be the compacency of the average American, on both sides of the political spectrum. The US hasn't added a state since the 1950s. The US has a VERY round number of states in 50. I think most Americans see the house as perfectly finished, and adding PR would be akin to slapping another eave on it. In other words, with 50 states the US feels "done" and the addition of any new state would feel extraneous.

The prospect of PR being a state is interesting, but I'd say it's very much DOA.

[aviewaskewed]

At 6/11/17 11:25 AM, Camarohusky wrote: I'm skeptical that Puerto Rico will ever become a state.

I concur with this/

First off, I'm not sure they really want to. Economic desperation may be enough to temporarily change their mind, but once things start to get better they will regret it. Even though PR is still a territory of the US, as of right now thy have the ability to identify as their own country so to speak. Does the Average PR citizen want to become "American" instead of "Pueto Rican"? I don't think so.

There are Puerto Ricans who definitely want to. I can speak a little "informed anecdotally" on that. My best friend is Puerto Rican, his mother came here with him, and his father stayed on the island so he goes back and forth. Been this way since he was 3, he's 36 now. He is for statehood and has been as long as I've known him, as is his father....but they also speak proudly like Puerto Rican is a separate identity in and of itself. Sometimes they say this in a way that sounds like unintentional prejudice (for example he has said that his brother isn't a "real Puerto Rican" because he wasn't born on the island and doesn't go back there). I think the sense that something would be irretrievably lost in terms of identity is a lot of what has held Puerto Ricans back from taking that plunge. From my perspective this has always seemed a little silly. Puerto Rico is not independent, they rely on and use the Dollar and American governmental systems and assistance for their sustenance. To me what has happened is they've allowed themselves to participate in a self-defeating deal to keep a self-deluding mythology alive....something like a "benign segregation" which they are now finding had unintended consequences.

Second, and perhaps the biggest hurdle, is the US letting them in.

Bingo, boy bingo right now. I see absolutely no leverage for PR in this arena right now. Let's get to your excellent points on that and see what I can add.

Manifest Destiny is dead. It's been well over 50 years since we added a state and the attitude of America annexing the World has long since ended. When it comes to statehood, the new question will be "What can PR give the US?" The answer is really not that much. The US already gets much of what it would get, and I don't see America, especially Republican America, as willing to take on an economically strapped island of latinos. Sure, much of the difference in the citizenhood of these people is nominal, but good luck convincing the conservative portion of America that. I see the gotcha staements right now. That this will allow illegals in by the island full. That this will be more welfare of poor minorities.

There is definitely a hurdle here of letting people who would be confused with "mexicans" and other undesirables in. The folks from PR ARE citizens upon birth on the island. But because they are not a state within the union they are "naturilized" at birth instead of "naturally-born". This has always seemed to me to be one of the biggest reasons to sue for statehood, and sue hard for it. Because that designation puts citizens of PR at a real political disadvantage.

You make an excellent point about "what do they give us in return?" which I honestly think is going to be the bigger hurdle then the simple racism argument. PR is bankrupt, absolutely, utterly, completely fucking broke. Professionals of all stripes are fleeing the island in droves, including essential infrastructure like dr.'s. Without some kind of real intervention it seems inconceivable to me that within 10 years or more the island won't be essentially "abandoned" or only propped up by people who are working the tourism sector, with only the infrastructure necessary to maintain that. I think the idea of taking on a 51st state who will come in bankrupt, with massive debt, will be completely unpalatable to most Americans. I think it will also be next to impossible for anyone to believe the vote wasn't a cynical move like the kid who blows all their money and then comes to mom and dad looking for a bail out (and I can already here that argument being ginned up). Right now I think it's fair to say there's VERY LITTLE political will on either side to bring them in. PR actually did vote for statehood previously, but that has been thrown out as Congress questioned the accuracy of the vote (the accusation was the pro-statehood party in power simply wrote the ballot question in such a way that they "tricked" people into voting yes), and has sent it back for this vote.

another interesting issue would be the compacency of the average American, on both sides of the political spectrum. The US hasn't added a state since the 1950s. The US has a VERY round number of states in 50. I think most Americans see the house as perfectly finished, and adding PR would be akin to slapping another eave on it. In other words, with 50 states the US feels "done" and the addition of any new state would feel extraneous.

I think this probably has very little do with anything. I think more in the halls of power and in the political arenas, they'll worry about what this potentially does to the electoral system and how and who gets into office in the future. The average citizen won't care and this argument won't really come up unless by people who realize the skin color and race related arguments are a non-starter.

The prospect of PR being a state is interesting, but I'd say it's very much DOA.

I agree. At this point any leverage they had is gone, and with the current admin and Congressional makeup, I tend to think they'd rather keep them under their ultra severe austerity measures and let private business make insane amounts of money off the rebuild. Or maybe expand it's military use. I think sad as it is to say for the people, they're leverage is fucked and the government can get more from keeping them in a dependent state with less rights then they can by empowering and enfranchising them.

[aviewaskewed]

This vote looks to be going nowhere too.

[aviewaskewed]

At 6/12/17 03:52 PM, RightTime wrote: “A 97 percent win is the kind of result you get in a one-party regime,” former Gov. Aníbal Acevedo Vilá said in an interview. “Washington will laugh in their faces.”

At bottom, it's a partisan issue. PR would be a solid blue state. But situations like this just give Washington all the ammo they need to make it look like partisanship isn't on the radar....that couple with the fact that there really is going to be little to no backlash for not supporting it.