Pence or Gingrich as VP

[DoctorStrongbad]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/12/politics/donald-trump-vice-presidential-search/index.html

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, which of them would make a better Vice President?

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/12/16 05:46 PM, lapis wrote: Ah lame. Why pick Pence, it's not like he's going to convince anyone that he's a serious conservative candidate anyway. I would have gone for attack dog Christie and hoped that the 'fuck you' ticket would take me all the way to the white house.

I think Trump has other plans for Chris Christie. Maybe he will be the President's food taster? Make sure Donald does not get poisoned?

[FinaLee]

Boring Mike Pence is going to be the veep. Was really hoping for Gingrich.

[billybobthwarten]

i have no idea who pence is, i guess i need to inform myself.

i know gingrich a bit, he seems like quite a smart man and does come from a time of political cooperation, but he has his own car load of baggage.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/12/16 06:25 PM, FinaLee wrote: Boring Mike Pence is going to be the veep. Was really hoping for Gingrich.

If you wanted the campaign to tailspin worse, then yes, Gingrich would have been the way to go. I've said all along Trump needed a safe pick, someone with experience who was likely to try and deflect some of Trumps BS and blunders and try to remind people this is supposed to be a serious campaign (despite the candidates best efforts to make us forget). Christie would have been a great pick in the last cycle, but the brand is VERY damaged now.

[FinaLee]

At 7/12/16 11:25 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 7/12/16 06:25 PM, FinaLee wrote: Boring Mike Pence is going to be the veep. Was really hoping for Gingrich.

If you wanted the campaign to tailspin worse, then yes, Gingrich would have been the way to go. I've said all along Trump needed a safe pick, someone with experience who was likely to try and deflect some of Trumps BS and blunders and try to remind people this is supposed to be a serious campaign (despite the candidates best efforts to make us forget). Christie would have been a great pick in the last cycle, but the brand is VERY damaged now.

There's absolutely no reason to pick Christie now unless they have some master plan to convert New Jersey. By now, I'm sure he's gotten over the regret of not running in 2012. Pence will help with the evangelicals who are skeptical of Trump and probably influence the industrial states around Indiana. It seems like a no-brainer.

But Gingrich has...flare.

[Feoric]

At 7/13/16 12:10 PM, lapis wrote: Picking a VP should be more than determining which of the target demographics that a candidate supposedly appeals to is the biggest. There has to be synergy between the candidates.

This is correct. VPs rarely, if ever, make a candidate win over a demographic they were losing before the ticket was announced. John McCain's campaign thought they could win over more women voters with a female VP, and we all know the rest from there.

Anyway, if you're into reading tea leaves, the smart money seems to be on Newt:

"Fox News Channel said Tuesday that it has suspended its agreement with contributor Newt Gingrich due to “intense media speculation” about Gingrich’s possible selection as Donald Trump’s running mate.

The cable news channel said the suspension — typical in cases in which an on-air contributor is running for office or considering it — was mutually agreed upon."

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/13/16 11:44 AM, FinaLee wrote: There's absolutely no reason to pick Christie now unless they have some master plan to convert New Jersey. By now, I'm sure he's gotten over the regret of not running in 2012.

Christie can't deliver Jersey, not now. His numbers have absolutely plummeted with Bridgegate, and his reformer image basically destroyed. Christie can't deliver anything to him at this point, so him not being a serious pick is no shock. To me Christie is done.

Pence will help with the evangelicals who are skeptical of Trump and probably influence the industrial states around Indiana. It seems like a no-brainer.

Especially when you look at some things that have been coming out from certain Evangelical leaders claiming Trump had a "come to Jesus" moment (I've seen no real evidence of it but there's time). Picking an evangelical for VP could help cement that.

But Gingrich has...flare.

That is a....word for it....yes....

[FinaLee]

Pence has been pinched.

[Xiicubed]

At 7/15/16 12:08 PM, lapis wrote: It just seems to me like Trump massively shot himself in the foot with this appointment. He actually did have some appeal to moderate voters unsure about Hillary - combine him with Pence however and the only thing they share is nastiness. Could it be that the Republican party pressured him to do this? A revolt by the 'Never Trump' group was staved off at the last minute - maybe he had been told by the party's top that they'd go for a split if he didn't pick an old-school conservative?

Meh all of his VP choices were not really appealing. Newt Gingrich was likely to lose moderate voters as well and he also supported NAFTA, Michael Flynn was a Democrat so Trump would have likely lost appeal from many conservatives if he picked him, and nobody likes Chris Christie.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/15/16 12:08 PM, lapis wrote: It just seems to me like Trump massively shot himself in the foot with this appointment. He actually did have some appeal to moderate voters unsure about Hillary - combine him with Pence however and the only thing they share is nastiness. Could it be that the Republican party pressured him to do this? A revolt by the 'Never Trump' group was staved off at the last minute - maybe he had been told by the party's top that they'd go for a split if he didn't pick an old-school conservative?

It's possible, but this feels like a nod to trying to bring the Evangelicals in (and the platform reads like an Evangelical wish list). You couple this pick with top leaders as I pointed out previously trumpeting a conversion by Trump....all signs point to his campaign trying to bring that traditional power bloc into the game.

[DoctorStrongbad]

Pence could be helpful. or at least not a problem for Donald Trump.

[Camarohusky]

At 7/16/16 12:19 AM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Pence could be helpful. or at least not a problem for Donald Trump.

Pence is very much disliked by the business wing of the Republican Party. Hillary is considered a very business freindly Democrat. I could see this being a large liability for Trump.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/16/16 12:46 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 7/16/16 12:19 AM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Pence could be helpful. or at least not a problem for Donald Trump.

Pence is very much disliked by the business wing of the Republican Party. Hillary is considered a very business freindly Democrat. I could see this being a large liability for Trump.

Mike Pence will help Trump reassure the GOP establishment. Pence will also help gain the Industrial Midwest.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/16/16 01:01 AM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Mike Pence will help Trump reassure the GOP establishment. Pence will also help gain the Industrial Midwest.

There's also the part where he had actually come out for Ted Cruz prior....and that bomb scares have had better attendance then the looming convention next week (ok, considering what a shit show and potential for violence there is there....that was probably a really bad joke).

[billybobthwarten]

so i've looked into pence a bit, can't say i'm entirely with him on many issues. i kinda wish trump had chosen someone a bit more moderate and less into religious aspects.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/16/16 06:24 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 7/16/16 01:01 AM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Mike Pence will help Trump reassure the GOP establishment. Pence will also help gain the Industrial Midwest.

There's also the part where he had actually come out for Ted Cruz prior....and that bomb scares have had better attendance then the looming convention next week (ok, considering what a shit show and potential for violence there is there....that was probably a really bad joke).

People should wait until the first Vice Presidential debate, that will give Pence a chance to talk about his ideas. He can't judge him until he presents himself.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/17/16 02:44 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: People should wait until the first Vice Presidential debate, that will give Pence a chance to talk about his ideas. He can't judge him until he presents himself.

*facepalm* kid....he's the Governor of Indiana, he's a public servant who's said and done and voted on stuff. I can TOTALLY start judging him based on all of that. He's not some fucking clone or some shit that came from nowhere just to be Donald Trump's running mate. He has a history before that.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/17/16 06:05 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: *facepalm* kid....he's the Governor of Indiana, he's a public servant who's said and done and voted on stuff. I can TOTALLY start judging him based on all of that. He's not some fucking clone or some shit that came from nowhere just to be Donald Trump's running mate. He has a history before that.

That is true, but he has never run for Vice president before. He could have some excellent ideas. He might be able to help Donald Trump make America great again. If he does make a mistake while running, I can understand people jumping on him.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/17/16 06:20 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: That is true, but he has never run for Vice president before.

How does that then obliterate his prior record and stances on things?

He could have some excellent ideas.

That's possible. But unlikely for me since having read up on him I disagree with just about every major policy plank he has and even Trump admitted this is partially a token pick for unity.

He might be able to help Donald Trump make America great again.

Donald Trump would have to articulate a workable plan, with ideas that aren't impossible, illegal, or just unworkable for Pence to be able to really help.

If he does make a mistake while running, I can understand people jumping on him.

But again, he is his record. This is what I don't understand about your point, you seem to think that because he never tried to get THIS job, we shouldn't be looking at his prior performance in a similar arena.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/17/16 07:42 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: How does that then obliterate his prior record and stances on things?

He has just started his new job as Vice President. Whatever, he did as a Governor was a different job.

That's possible. But unlikely for me since having read up on him I disagree with just about every major policy plank he has and even Trump admitted this is partially a token pick for unity.

I am sure Donald Trump knows what he is doing. He picked Pence, so he must be a diamond in the rough.

Donald Trump would have to articulate a workable plan, with ideas that aren't impossible, illegal, or just unworkable for Pence to be able to really help.

Trump will in time. He is new at being a President.

But again, he is his record. This is what I don't understand about your point, you seem to think that because he never tried to get THIS job, we shouldn't be looking at his prior performance in a similar arena.

Every job is different. If you are bad at working at Wendy's, you might be great at Taco Bell. That is why you get a clean slate with each new job.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/17/16 09:36 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: He has just started his new job as Vice President. Whatever, he did as a Governor was a different job.

Actually he hasn't. Two reasons:

1. Donald Trump hasn't been elected yet

2. It isn't January 20th, 2017, the date that Donald Trump and Mike Pence if elected would take the oath of office

But again, just because he's interviewing for this new job doesn't mean you don't look at his record from his last or current one. He's going to bring the same ideas, attitudes, and skills to the new one as the old one. This is in fact how literally every job interview works. Have you ever held a job? Or changed a job? Because if you have, you should know this.

I am sure Donald Trump knows what he is doing. He picked Pence, so he must be a diamond in the rough.

I'm not. But that's a bit of a "our mileage may vary" issue. But then there's also the stuff coming out that Donny flip flopped on Pence a bit before announcing him. He also made "look, this is for party unity, I admit" the first thing he said about the pick so....to me it's not boding like this is going to be one of those historic team ups. More like a candidate picking a running mate that won't hurt him.

Trump will in time. He is new at being a President.

Again, he is a CANDIDATE for President. That is not the same as winning, and light years away from actually DOING the job.

Every job is different.

Nope, not true at all. Many jobs are different. But when I worked as a janitor at a grocery store when I was 17, then 2 years later went to work as a janitor at a bigger convenience store, guess what? Same job. What I do now is light years away from that. But some of the same skills do come in handy. What Pence did and believed as Governor will absolutely inform how he would vote or operate if he were Vice President (who is President of the Senate, breaks ties in the Senate) and should Trump die in office, or resign, or be impeached and convicted....he would be President. That would happen without a need to vote on his assent....so YEAH, it is kind of important that we look at his record, his statements etc when we the people are interviewing him for the job of VP.

If you are bad at working at Wendy's, you might be great at Taco Bell. That is why you get a clean slate with each new job.

Ok, so you clearly have never held a job, or even interviewed for one. Because that is absolutely not how it works at all. They ask you what jobs you've held in the past and they want to contact your prior employer because they want to find out if you're worth the interview and if you'd be good to hire....which oh look, is exactly like this. The depths of what you don't know dude are astounding to me.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/17/16 10:12 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Actually he hasn't. Two reasons:
1. Donald Trump hasn't been elected yet
2. It isn't January 20th, 2017, the date that Donald Trump and Mike Pence if elected would take the oath of office

That is all true. They are still in the running process.

But again, just because he's interviewing for this new job doesn't mean you don't look at his record from his last or current one. He's going to bring the same ideas, attitudes, and skills to the new one as the old one. This is in fact how literally every job interview works. Have you ever held a job? Or changed a job? Because if you have, you should know this.

Running for President, is the biggest political job in the land. Trump and Pence will organize and bring out their A game. The past is the past.

I'm not. But that's a bit of a "our mileage may vary" issue. But then there's also the stuff coming out that Donny flip flopped on Pence a bit before announcing him. He also made "look, this is for party unity, I admit" the first thing he said about the pick so....to me it's not boding like this is going to be one of those historic team ups. More like a candidate picking a running mate that won't hurt him.

I agree that Pence should not hurt Trump. Pence seems neutral, maybe a bit boring. That should help cool down Trump's fiery statements and maybe help voters see his point of view.

Ok, so you clearly have never held a job, or even interviewed for one. Because that is absolutely not how it works at all. They ask you what jobs you've held in the past and they want to contact your prior employer because they want to find out if you're worth the interview and if you'd be good to hire....which oh look, is exactly like this.

If I work at a job, and then have a chance to become the manager, I would really up my game. I would be wearing fancy suits and maybe smoke a big cigar. Wear gloves and read the business section of a newspaper.

I understand that you have pointed out some things that could be bad, but how about some good things? Could you tell us some positive things about Mike Pence? Maybe some advice about how Trump/Pence could win it all?

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/18/16 01:26 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Running for President, is the biggest political job in the land. Trump and Pence will organize and bring out their A game. The past is the past.

Hasn't happened so far. Also, as I said, the past is critical and it just keeps jumping up and biting Donald on the ass.

I agree that Pence should not hurt Trump. Pence seems neutral, maybe a bit boring. That should help cool down Trump's fiery statements and maybe help voters see his point of view.

Nah. This was more about trying to get the Cruz win under control. As I've said all along Trump's problem with being the nominee is he now has to figure out how to sound more even keeled, but still be that fiery racist bastard demagogue who got the nod in the first place.

If I work at a job, and then have a chance to become the manager, I would really up my game. I would be wearing fancy suits and maybe smoke a big cigar. Wear gloves and read the business section of a newspaper.

What does that have to do with your qualifications or the fact that you may not have had your game straight from the start? You're work history is going to effect this shit.

I understand that you have pointed out some things that could be bad, but how about some good things? Could you tell us some positive things about Mike Pence? Maybe some advice about how Trump/Pence could win it all?

Why would I do that? My biggest fear right now is those guys winning. I disagree with them on everything. I think they would be the worst thing for this country. I'm not the news, I don't owe them fairness or "equal time" or any of that.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/18/16 07:01 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Nah. This was more about trying to get the Cruz win under control. As I've said all along Trump's problem with being the nominee is he now has to figure out how to sound more even keeled, but still be that fiery racist bastard demagogue who got the nod in the first place.

Mike Pence should be able to add some calmness to the tornado that is Donald Trump.

What does that have to do with your qualifications or the fact that you may not have had your game straight from the start? You're work history is going to effect this shit.

History can be important, but everybody can raise up to a new level. Trump can go from business man to Presidential level.

Why would I do that? My biggest fear right now is those guys winning. I disagree with them on everything. I think they would be the worst thing for this country. I'm not the news, I don't owe them fairness or "equal time" or any of that.

Just for the sake of argument, how would you help Trump win. What helpful advice could you give him?

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/18/16 09:46 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Mike Pence should be able to add some calmness to the tornado that is Donald Trump.

How do you know though? What do you honestly know about Mike Pence to make that statement?

History can be important, but everybody can raise up to a new level. Trump can go from business man to Presidential level.

He has shown no ability to do so thus far. Not everybody is capable of doing anything, despite what the motivational posters tell you. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses.

Just for the sake of argument, how would you help Trump win. What helpful advice could you give him?

Stop tweeting at 3 am, stick to the teleprompters. Stop in any way making off the cuff speeches because they wind up becoming rambling diatribes that give the opposition a near endless supply of things to attack him with.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/19/16 11:25 AM, TylerFromTexas wrote: Not to mention to develop better manners, but clearly a lot of people love his fiery attitude.

Losing his fiery attitude would make him closer to being just another politician, Trump has done well speaking his mind.

At 7/19/16 11:41 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:

How do you know though? What do you honestly know about Mike Pence to make that statement?

Anybody is calmer than Trump. I am sure Pence will act as the calm and cool head.

He has shown no ability to do so thus far. Not everybody is capable of doing anything, despite what the motivational posters tell you. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses.

That is why a vice President helps the President with different ideas and abilities.

Stop tweeting at 3 am, stick to the teleprompters. Stop in any way making off the cuff speeches because they wind up becoming rambling diatribes that give the opposition a near endless supply of things to attack him with.

That is solid advice. Donald Trump needs to just use teleprompters.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/19/16 01:32 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: Anybody is calmer than Trump. I am sure Pence will act as the calm and cool head.

So....just the usual guessing with nothing real behind it.

That is why a vice President helps the President with different ideas and abilities.

That depends on what kind of team it is and why they're matched together. The office of Vice President was once described by John Adams as completely useless because it really is. There's no rule that says the President has to listen to you, consult you, or do anything with you. Your only job is to be the tie breaking vote in the Senate should a tie occur (which it rarely does).

That is solid advice. Donald Trump needs to just use teleprompters.

Yeah, but he won't. The issue hits his two biggest weaknesses:

1. His ego is too big, so he thinks everything he says and does is pure gold.

2. He has no real attention span. He loses interest if he isn't getting an applause line every minute or so it seems.

[DoctorStrongbad]

At 7/19/16 01:47 PM, TylerFromTexas wrote: Believe me, I'm stunned that he got the nomination. I don't know anything about Pence other than he supports the Tea Party.

I am very happy that a non-politician has won the nomination. The people are sick of politics as usual.

At 7/19/16 01:50 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: That depends on what kind of team it is and why they're matched together. The office of Vice President was once described by John Adams as completely useless because it really is. There's no rule that says the President has to listen to you, consult you, or do anything with you. Your only job is to be the tie breaking vote in the Senate should a tie occur (which it rarely does).

The only good thing about being a Vice President is on the job training. You get to learn how to be a President. That is amazing. Then a VP, can run for President and know all the in and outs.

Yeah, but he won't. The issue hits his two biggest weaknesses:

1. His ego is too big, so he thinks everything he says and does is pure gold.

What would be the best way for him to handle this?

2. He has no real attention span. He loses interest if he isn't getting an applause line every minute or so it seems.

I think you are incorrect. He is a captain of industry. He also mastered The Art of the Deal. It would require lots of attention to accomplish those things and many more.

[aviewaskewed]

At 7/19/16 03:53 PM, DoctorStrongbad wrote: The only good thing about being a Vice President is on the job training. You get to learn how to be a President. That is amazing. Then a VP, can run for President and know all the in and outs.

Kid, I know the most important thing to you is your post count and all....but could you do me a favor and actually READ my posts? Instead of just scanning for context for a reply like it seems your doing? Thanks. Now, as I said, being VP is NOT an on the job training to be Pres necessarily. Because if the President is simply picking you for political reasons, then you just sit in the VP's office and don't really do much of anything. I tend to think that's how the Biden Vice Presidency has gone. Pence however would probably be more like a Dick Cheney though, where he'd be the shadowy hand guiding policy because Trump knows fuck all about holding office, crafting or steering legislation, or any of that. That's the reality of that "political outsider" shit that pushed him in. The reason it's always been lawyers and wonks and etc is because goddamit their the ones with the skill set to do the damn job.

What would be the best way for him to handle this?

Not be such an egomaniacl shit. Which he can't and won't do because it's a personality defect.

I think you are incorrect.

Ok.

He is a captain of industry.

Lol, ok, let's inject some reality in here:

Here's something good. Trump makes money at what he does, but he doesn't do it super well. 4 of his companies filed for bankruptcy protection, guys like Bill Gates and other top executives and entrepenuors have filed for such never.

He also mastered The Art of the Deal. It would require lots of attention to accomplish those things and many more.

Co-Author says he never wrote a word of it. Critical lack of attention that could "end civilization".