Did I misread the news yesterday ?

It said that there is a requirement for Selective Service, aka Slavery . That young men who have in the US done for over 35 years registered at the age of 18 for this, whether they want to or not & if you don't want to you are forced to against your will. because that is what it is when anyone can take you from the activity's you wish to do & make you go to train & fight in the Armed forces, or the cotton fields or mines etc ....without your consent, forced by the application of draconian laws that can jail you for refusal... & that, no matter how you attempt to sugar coat it , that is not EQUALITY, its slavery no matter what you call it.

But the news I read was people reporting how "GREAT it is for the "EQUALITY OF RIGHTS FOR MEN & WOMAN" that under new bill coming up very shortly ,young women will also have to mandatorily register to be slaves as well.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/833b30d9ad6346dd94f643ca76679a02/house-committee-votes-require-women-register-draft

WOW guy's , is that really how most Americans feel ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-women-idUSKCN0VB1UR
As the above story points out, leading military leaders like it.

That it is a good thing, a Great thing, that young men & women will be forced to register & perhaps have all of their so called rights & freedoms stripped away by a war machine that needs more cannon fodder ?

You should be passing a bill outlawing that requirement for young men & women. A much (IMO ) better bill worth cheering for would be mandatory draft of all politicians to be up front in the first wave of attacking troops in any conflict.

War would cease the next day.

& before you whiners on here come out claiming "OH , they don't use it ...its all volunteer ." Bullshit ! & you're full of it because if you don't use it, you don't need it & it shouldn't be in place for anyone, especially with repercussions up to & as serious as criminal penalties for refusing to sign up.

This story actually shocked me when I read it, I've heard rumblings about this from awhile ago. Now its almost reality ! Wow ... just wow ! ! !

At 5/17/16 09:58 AM, morefngdbs wrote: & before you whiners on here come out claiming "OH , they don't use it ...its all volunteer ." Bullshit ! & you're full of it because if you don't use it, you don't need it

Absolutely 100% correct. That's why I don't have any insurance whatsoever. I'm healthy! I drive safe! There's no crime in my area!

At 5/17/16 09:58 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Did I misread the news yesterday ?

No, and it's not "slavery" because people in the military, even if drafted....draw a salary. Slaves make no money. Also we haven't had a draft in forever because of the amount of foolish and unpopular wars we have. Selective service isn't right, but it's not slavery either. Stop being a sensationalist.

You should be passing a bill outlawing that requirement for young men & women. A much (IMO ) better bill worth cheering for would be mandatory draft of all politicians to be up front in the first wave of attacking troops in any conflict.

War would cease the next day.

I tend to agree, but too bad it won't happen. If you think the citizens can "draft a bill" then you are showing you don't even know the basics of how US politics and representative democracy works.

oh no!! equality!!

The bait is strong with this one.

In all seriousness, Selective Service =/= draft and hasn't been since the early 70s. Now that doesn't mean that the SSS shouldn't be reformed or added on to (as in certain public works if necessary) but to say that the system is the worst thing ever is an massive overreaction at best. It's statements like this that I would have expect a well-known troll to make, and you're dangerously close to that level.

At 5/17/16 02:06 PM, orangebomb wrote: The bait is strong with this one.

In all seriousness, Selective Service =/= draft and hasn't been since the early 70s. Now that doesn't mean that the SSS shouldn't be reformed or added on to (as in certain public works if necessary) but to say that the system is the worst thing ever is an massive overreaction at best. It's statements like this that I would have expect a well-known troll to make, and you're dangerously close to that level.

;;;
If it hasn't been used then why is it done ?

To keep the massive Government bureaucracy in place / A large hole to sink tax payer dollars into for , as you have said nothing....or in your words "something that hasn't been used since the 70's"
But now you want to expand it, which will require more resources !

Makes perfect sense (in an upside down backassward kinda way)

At 5/17/16 10:52 AM, FinaLee wrote:

At 5/17/16 09:58 AM, morefngdbs wrote: & before you whiners on here come out claiming "OH , they don't use it ...its all volunteer ." Bullshit ! & you're full of it because if you don't use it, you don't need it

Absolutely 100% correct. That's why I don't have any insurance whatsoever. I'm healthy! I drive safe! There's no crime in my area!

;;;
The problem is 1-YOU WILL GET ILL, might not be cancer, but it will be something .
2- Other drivers do not drive safe , & if also uninsured , you are protected .
3- Crime doesn't happen in 1 place it can happen anywhere, 7 then not happen there for years 7 years & years ...so look out, its coming your way

At 5/17/16 11:55 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 5/17/16 09:58 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Did I misread the news yesterday ?

No, and it's not "slavery" because people in the military, even if drafted....draw a salary. Slaves make no money. Also we haven't had a draft in forever because of the amount of foolish and unpopular wars we have. Selective service isn't right, but it's not slavery either. Stop being a sensationalist.

;;;
Slaves were paid in food & lodging, they may not have received a salary.
But they didn't have any choice did they ?
You sign up for 'selective service' or you face punitive penalties up to incarceration.
So you don't have a choice do you ?

And isn't that a nice sounding title ....No More DRAFT , no sireee bob. Now You Have Selective Service, nice soft language BS language, designed to confuse the herd into thinking , its ok now.

I tend to agree, but too bad it won't happen. If you think the citizens can "draft a bill" then you are showing you don't even know the basics of how US politics and representative democracy works.

;;;
Hell , who does ?
Your entire system has been corrupted & barely works.
Congress gives Presidents the power to wage war ...aka terror action control without their approval. & it goes on & on & on.

As to your system. We outside of it are taught the USA, when it was founded gave the people the rights to Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of happiness.
What was taught right after that was at your founding some of those 'rights' were only for select people. With Black & coloured persons exempt from them

What I would like to point out , because many of you missed the point.
Is today none of you have any rights at all, or perhaps some of you still have the right to life. Because all US States do not allow capital punishment. In the States that do , that 'right' is gone as well.

If you don't sign up for selective service you can have your liberty revoked & you could be jailed, so much for the so called right to liberty

If you are chosen for selective services, your pursuit of happiness is interrupted. also know as revoked & or taken away. so it isn't a right.

Maybe "we the people" could get together & make a clarifying claim to all of us living elsewhere on you true status, where you have privileges instead of rights. SO that as with a driving license (a privilege) if you piss of the State, they can take it away.
With a caveat , saying that in some states (maybe you could list them) you do have a right to life, because even if you do extreme criminal acts, the State will still allow you to live. So in that case you have a right to Life .

Oi, I take it that you didn't read any of the responses at all, or if you did, completely misinterpreted them.

At 5/19/16 08:04 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Slaves were paid in food & lodging, they may not have received a salary.
But they didn't have any choice did they ?

Not the same thing. The food and lodging that slaves got were generally awful, and none of them got paid at all. (hence the term slave) Also, as I said before, the SSS is not the same thing as the draft. Provided that you aren't disabled or a few other things, you need to sign up for the SSS in order to get college support (FASFA), a government job at any level and so on. How exactly is this akin to slavery again?

You sign up for 'selective service' or you face punitive penalties up to incarceration.
So you don't have a choice do you ?

There's a lot more to the SSS than military service as I just mentioned before. A large amount of the military stuff that was part of the SSS is a largely hypothetical anyway.

And isn't that a nice sounding title ....No More DRAFT , no sireee bob. Now You Have Selective Service, nice soft language BS language, designed to confuse the herd into thinking , its ok now.

Yes, because "herp a derp, SSS is teh draft in a different name" when the reality is quite different as we just mentioned. You really don't think that the average person is that smart enough to realize that there is no draft anymore because our military is strong enough not to need one. Fear mongering will get you nowhere and is only insulting our intelligence considering your ignorance.

Hell , who does ?
Your entire system has been corrupted & barely works.

No more corrupt than other first world nations.

Congress gives Presidents the power to wage war ...aka terror action control without their approval. & it goes on & on & on.

First off, the President is the commander in chief of the US military, he can do what he wants short of declaring war. Second, terror groups have already declared war in one way or another, so it renders that part moot.
Finally, while the president have control of the military, Congress is responsible for giving the funding for any major military operation. (e.g. Afghanistan)

As to your system. We outside of it are taught the USA, when it was founded gave the people the rights to Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of happiness.
What was taught right after that was at your founding some of those 'rights' were only for select people. With Black & coloured persons exempt from them

Oh no, because we didn't have inherited racism then. Furthermore, those were ideals rather than any actual law, as we needed every one of the colonies united against the British, compromises had to be made, and Founding Fathers knew this. Don't try to bring 21st century logic to the 18th century.

What I would like to point out , because many of you missed the point.
Is today none of you have any rights at all, or perhaps some of you still have the right to life. Because all US States do not allow capital punishment. In the States that do , that 'right' is gone as well.

Except that we do have rights, even if people are generally ignorant on how they work. Stop making falsehoods and baseless claims like that, you need to know better than that.

If you don't sign up for selective service you can have your liberty revoked & you could be jailed, so much for the so called right to liberty

Once again, not the same thing. I don't know what your system is in Canada, but I have got to imagine that it's pretty similar to ours, and considering that you probably haven't learned anything about America outside of TV and slanderous propaganda, it's not hard to see where you get this from. (not that they're right or anything)

Maybe "we the people" could get together & make a clarifying claim to all of us living elsewhere on you true status, where you have privileges instead of rights. SO that as with a driving license (a privilege) if you piss of the State, they can take it away.

Clearly you don't know the difference between our privileges and rights, and considering how ignorant you are, it's not much a surprise. I don't know where you get all this from, but my advice is to stop making baseless claims from shoddy sources that have a habit of making this up. (e.g. Infowars) America, and Americans in general isn't one big monolith of beliefs and thoughts contrary to what some countries want to think, and aside from a few situations during extreme circumstances, our rights have never been messed with, and any claims otherwise is simply rooted in ignorance.

At 5/19/16 08:04 AM, morefngdbs wrote: And isn't that a nice sounding title ....No More DRAFT , no sireee bob. Now You Have Selective Service, nice soft language BS language, designed to confuse the herd into thinking , its ok now.

But again, you don't understand how it works. In that you have to sign up, but your not compelled to do anything else, when the recruiters start calling you can say no, or if you have a medical condition (like I do) they just drop the subject and politely let you go. Yes, the CONCEPT is anti-thetical to a supposedly "free country", but so is a lot of other necessary stuff we do. Like forcing people to carry basic liability insurance if they own a car. That is for the public good, as any draft (provided the war is a just an necessary one) would theoretically be as we'd need to stop the enemy. But since the draft was basically destroyed by the Red catastrofucks of Korea, Vietnam, etc. I just don't see anyone getting in who's stupid enough to instate another draft unless we're fighting someone truly evil like Super Hitler.

Hell , who does ?

The Congress. Or the legislature of a state. There are states that do ballot and referendum on issues that one can vote on during a Congressional or Presidential election (My state is one that often does this). But otherwise, that's what a representative republic does. You vote for the people you think will make the best and most useful laws and then send them off to the places that do it for a select amount of time. I'm sure you're country does similar? I'm sorry, I forget where you're from, I just remember it's not The US.

Your entire system has been corrupted & barely works.

It works when it wants to. The Partisanship and the anti-government wonks and etc have definitely screwed up the gears good....but I'm hoping a purge is coming soon.

Congress gives Presidents the power to wage war ...aka terror action control without their approval. & it goes on & on & on.

No it doesn't. Congress still retains the power to declare War, but as "Commander in Chief" and with the power of "Executive Orders" and actions, the President can find many weasily ways to deploy combat forces without explicitly breaking the Seperation provision.

As to your system. We outside of it are taught the USA, when it was founded gave the people the rights to Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of happiness.

Ok, but I think like when we get taught our history here, they leave a FUCK of a lot out, and over simplify it. I mean, do they teach you the first US attempt at government was a dismal failure?

What was taught right after that was at your founding some of those 'rights' were only for select people. With Black & coloured persons exempt from them

Which was wrong, but part of the issue here is there's a misconception and a "history filtered through the lense of today". Slavery was an intensely hot button issue that threatened to tear the new union apart. Compromises were made to stitch the Union together in the hopes that it could ultimately be dealt with more peaceably later and....yeah....not so much with that.

Is today none of you have any rights at all, or perhaps some of you still have the right to life. Because all US States do not allow capital punishment. In the States that do , that 'right' is gone as well.

We still have plenty of rights thanks. It's just that as ever people have to be vigilant about what they do and don't sign away. Total liberty will never happen, it doesn't work, it's always been about a compromise and a consent decree. The idea that government cannot act against, or in spite of the will of the governed. We've gotten far out of whack there, but a lot of basic protections are still in place.

Honestly dude, I think you were taught a very cliff notes version of American history and what this country is, was, and is supposed to be. You really should try reading more about the Founders and the Founding like I have. It's an eye opener.

At 5/19/16 11:08 AM, orangebomb wrote:

Clearly you don't know the difference between our privileges and rights, and considering how ignorant you are, it's not much a surprise. I don't know where you get all this from, but my advice is to stop making baseless claims from shoddy sources that have a habit of making this up. (e.g. Infowars) America, and Americans in general isn't one big monolith of beliefs and thoughts contrary to what some countries want to think, and aside from a few situations during extreme circumstances, our rights have never been messed with, and any claims otherwise is simply rooted in ignorance.

;;;;
First , I do not have television, no channels of any type.
I have the internet, & with it I have no netscape,no local TV, nothing.
I do not watch 'info wars , that guy's a whack job. But I do read several news papers & special interest pages like Al Jazeera English, CBC, BBC, 24hr Gold English version Sleuth Journal. I also from time to time look at American mainstream news to see what the are reporting compared to what others are reporting outside the USA.

The article i read on the so called 'Equality ' improvement for women was in relation to women now being required to sign up for the draft & the Generals in the military being on side of that. I still think its an appalling idea.
BTW
Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy, meaning our leader is technically the Queen. The power of the Country lies in the elected political Party with the most members in the House of Commons, the leader of the Party & our country is the Prime Minister.
As for being a mess, we have been owned/controled by the Central Banking Powers of Europe longer than you have.
But that's a mute point now isn't it ~;-/

Your rights are definitely being messed with & you & people like you who believe everything is fine is a big part of the problem.

Your country's so called terrorism laws , now allow the suspension of anyones rights to arrest with out cause.
Incarceration without charge. No rights to legal council ....wanna tell me more about your so called rights not being messed with ?

THat's not messing with them , that's outright TAKING THEM AWAY!

SO habeous corpus is now null & void under this law the NDAA.

As I've previously mentioned , at least in Canada we have a right to life & there is no NDAA law, as of yet.

As of yet only some states have a right to life, in there being no death penalty there, everything else you have are privileges , particularly when it comes to your so called freedom.

At 5/20/16 09:47 AM, morefngdbs wrote: The article i read on the so called 'Equality ' improvement for women was in relation to women now being required to sign up for the draft & the Generals in the military being on side of that. I still think its an appalling idea.

How exactly is that appalling? If anything, that's one step towards equality that the feminist crowds wanted for decades.

As for being a mess, we have been owned/controled by the Central Banking Powers of Europe longer than you have.

That's because we broke away from Europe 240 years ago, and have largely kept them out during their time of colonization and collective war fetishism of the 1800's up until the World Wars. Pretty smart move on our part.

Your rights are definitely being messed with & you & people like you who believe everything is fine is a big part of the problem.

Here's the problem with that statement, you're being completely vague on what you're talking about, and most people who make a similar argument generally fall for this as well. How exactly are they being messed with exactly? The best answer is a few fringe liberties that are bent from time to time for a certain person (think high-value target) or when a cop goes over the line with a suspect, which contrary to what certain parts of the media thinks, doesn't happen that much.

In other words, it's only in rare circumstances with extremely hostile people. Pretty much by then, you've have entered into a grey area anyway.

Your country's so called terrorism laws , now allow the suspension of anyones rights to arrest with out cause.
Incarceration without charge. No rights to legal council ....wanna tell me more about your so called rights not being messed with ?

I don't recall enemies of the state getting the same rights that regular Americans do. Ideally, we would capture them and put them on trial, but the problem with that is considering that they are always hostile and too dangerous to be kept alive, it's simply better to nip them in the bud before they get too influential like with Bin Laden. Plus, we would be wasting money and manpower to convict someone who was guilty as sin anyway, it's basically nothing more than a formality.

Now if say, an American tries to join up with Al-Qaeda or Daesh, that's different, they are tried under federal court with all their habeous corpus and their rights until proven guilty. I'm no lawyer, so I can't comment on specifics or anything like that, but I would imagine that it is a federal crime to join any enemy of the state for whatever reason.

THat's not messing with them , that's outright TAKING THEM AWAY!

SO habeous corpus is now null & void under this law the NDAA.

No it's not. You can ask Camaro if you want any specifics on habeous corpus. At worst, a few liberties that are wholly unrelated to the well known freedoms (speech, assembly, and so on) are being blurred in certain circumstances out of everyone's control is small potatoes compared what I just mentioned in my previous post.

If you don't believe me, just look at all of the posts on forums, blogs and the like who made similar comments and even some of the more outlandish commentary, (e.g. Infowars or anything by Noam Chomsky) are they being censored in any way? Are they being taken down by the government? Yeah, I didn't think so.

As I've previously mentioned , at least in Canada we have a right to life & there is no NDAA law, as of yet.

As of yet only some states have a right to life, in there being no death penalty there, everything else you have are privileges , particularly when it comes to your so called freedom.

Wholly irrelevant, but right to life =/= death penalty, not even close. Those who purposely kill in cold blood don't deserve to live under the same freedoms that everyone else does, and the death penalty is more about supposed efficiency and getting it right than it is about morality, which is subjective. Plus, there are a lot of other things that can kill you that isn't the state, (and in a lot worse ways to boot) but I digress.

The point I'm making is that you assume that our rights and privileges that were written 240 years ago means that they are completely binding and infallibile, when the reality that it's much more complicated than that under various circumstances that are either a clear and present danger to us, or are in circumstances that are way beyond our control. Furthermore, our rights and freedoms does not apply to those who seek to destroy us and what we have built, a realitive peace among major powers and an era of technological progress not seen since the Industrial Revolution, if that, let alone the safety of Americans and our allies.

At 5/20/16 02:57 AM, mysticvortex13 wrote: a singular citizen drafts the idea that becomes the bill. they petition for signiatures from other citizens and send it to their congressperson once they reach their quota.

You're talking about something like "ballot and referendum" which not all states have, and which is not how federal law (which selective service is) is drafted. So this is just irrelevant and again harkens back to what I said about people who don't understand how the process works making posts before they do more necessary basic research.

I didn't bother with the rest because it's just more opinion masquerading as fact based off of the initial misinterpretation. Do some fundamental research guys, please. It's not that I don't want to have an intelligent discussion, I really would like to....but until we can all be clear on how what we're talking about does, and doesn't become the law of this particular land....there's nothing substantive we can say.

At 5/20/16 02:56 AM, mysticvortex13 wrote: the draft isnt abolished, it's just inert. out of use. it's still part of the selective services, it's just not all there is to selective services.

I don't recall ever disagreeing with this point....I merely said it's such a political hot potato I don't see anyone wanting to even broach the subject unless they have an iron clad perfect enemy to fight (hence my "Super Hitler" example).

anyone can call you at any time, and while you can refuse to show up for court that day or refuse to go to war or whatever, that's considered a criminal offense.

I know this falls on deaf ears for you, but this stuff is part of the "social contract" in that people can't just derive benefit from the government without giving back in return. That was the basic idea behind the country. You are governed, but governed by your consent. The government does for you, and you give something in return, a symbiosis that benefits both. That of course is not how it is now working in practice....but that is the basic idea behind these things.

define "necessary".

I believe I did above :)

car crashes are accidents. accidents are unintentional tragedies. faultless tragedies which happen to be the only reason such insurances exist. the blame should not be placed on any human party involved.

This is ridiculous. Not all "car crashes" are "faultless accidents". Most people do not INTEND to hit the other person's car, but if it can be determined that poor decisions or poor driving skills led to the incident, then fault can absolutely be assigned. Insurance exists as a way to make sure the victim does not have to pay the repair bill (which as someone who's been in this situation before, I can tell you is not insignificant), and the faulty is insulated from direct financial responsibility for the crash....but will suffer some repercussion in the form of higher insurance rates because they have now become a more significant risk. Wow, look at me explaining something that's actually a pretty logical system.

it's like suing an inanimate object for falling on your friend's head and killing them and expecting people to not think you're utterly out of your mind.

It's really not. Not even close. Unless again we abandon all reason, logic and treat multiple different situations as the exact same thing.

except in this circumstance it actually works because there's a second human present to serve as a scapegoat for something the car did.

the word "declare" wasnt used by the op. the word "wage" was. a conflict is a war in de facto so just quit yer nitpickin and address the actual point they have.

It's not a nit pick. It's in the Constitution, it is the legal definition of how and who this country says can declare the state of conflict known as "war". Again, trying to argue without doing basic research and having basic knowledge.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if we draft women into our military. In the event of a draft, all eligible men are already on the list...only fair to get the females on the list, too.

At 5/20/16 01:39 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

i dont agree with laws of any kind, but there is a such thing as miranda rights here. rights are only revoked after people are convicted as far as i am aware.

WRONG

Just because you are unaware, does not change the facts & you can easily check for yourself.

drafts in general are shit.

when the war comes to us, i'm getting the fuck out of dodge; not grabbing a gun.

At 5/23/16 10:28 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: how does one enter into this "consent"?

By allowing themselves to be governed, and by participating in it through electing representatives and such. It's not perfect by any stretch, but Democracy so far is the best protection we've been able to find against tyranny or chaos.

it's not how it ever worked in practice.

Bullshit. The government currently, and in the past has done a LOT for it's citizenry. Yes, it's also done things TO the citizenry. But you can't just cherry pick the examples that work best for your point.

without a definition, your "necessary" cannot be established as objective fact. not that a definition alone would accomplish that, but it'd certainly be a step in the right direction.

In this case necessary would be things like: drafting laws and providing for those who are empowered to make sure they are followed (like police). Emergency Personnel trained, empowered, and funded to deal with catastrophes. Maintenance of transport for commerce, information, etc. All the basic things you enjoy, our ability to communicate now, is possible because we have formed governments to provide for the necessary things that gave us a society and the security enough to have the time to make these advances.

and sure, it's tragic that you got slammed into. but nobody can control that. it's outside the realm of anyone's responsibility. neither you nor the person who crashed into you.

No, it's not. I laid out very specific circumstances where it IS someone's fault. It can be determined. You are either being willfully dishonest now, or willfully dense....or you're just actually that dense.

lightning starts forest fires. we don't make the sky pay for damages to the national forest. nobody can control the sky.

That's not the same thing.

car crashes damage cars. we shouldnt blame a person for what a car did.

So....dense then. Ok.

details that arent even relevant. "wage", the word the op spoke, is not once written in the entire constitution.

What the fuck does the word "wage" have to do with anything? I was talking about who has the power to declare the state that is legally defined as "War" that is the Congress of the US. President's have, and can, find ways to deploy troops under their position as "Command In Chief" without having a Declaration of War from Congress. It's one of the reasons why the Draft fell out of favor and is unlikely to ever be re-instituted.

also, nice answering an ad-hominem....

It's not an ad hominem dude. You continously make all kinds of baseless and bullshit claims and remarks that can easily be proven false, or show that you clearly have major and massive gaps in your knowledge and reasoning faculties. That's just the facts your posts present to me.

i have evidence to substantiate my claims of what i know.

No, you don't. What you have is "the world according to mysticvortex" which usually runs something like this:

1. You make a false point or premise.
2. You then jump from that with some pseudo-intellectual rambling that you seem to feel proves the false point or premise, and shows you as some kind of enlightened seeker.
3. Someone points out your false point or premise, and refutes it.
4. You commit some more logical fallacies, double down on the falsehood, and try to reframe the conversation to prove yourself right.

even if you do too, best case scenario for you is that we're the same, you and i.

Speaking of logical fallacies....looks like a classic False Dilemma to me.

process of elimination dictates that.

Yep, definite False Dilemma.

yes, i'm a lazy loon with funky, potentially doomsday-bringing ideals.

So....again....having that out there, why should anyone take your seriously? Why should you or anyone else think you actually know anything about anything?

hell i even barely have a basic grasp of the english language. but give me credit where credit's due.

What credit do you think you're actually do? Because between the logical fallacies, the admitted resume here of why nobody should ever listen to you....I'm having a hard time seeing anything you should be "credited" with.

i'm at least achieving what i'm setting out to do by way of being capable of conveying my information to those less intelligent than myself. which is more than can be said of most people.

So....you want a gold star for being able to hit the post button for your nonsense? Haha....no.

At 5/24/16 12:54 AM, mysticvortex13 wrote: so if i commit a crime and then resist arrest, i'm no longer allowing myself to be governed so i'm alright to get off scoff free. right.

*sigh* do you want to have a serious discussion or not?

you'll get arrested for doing literally nothing objectionable. now who's laughing? hahahaha...

What the hell are you on about now?

democracy is useless when all the voters are morons who are too busy working hard at their jobs to have time to be educated on the finer points of civics, yet they live in a culture where it's taboo to not vote.

One can work and be educated too. The problem is that people do not place the value on it that they should, and the system has become broken in a multitude of ways. But that does not stop the individual from educating themselves outside of the said system, learning how and what sources are trustworthy and to seek them out. It's taboo not to vote for a very obvious reason: If no one votes, then the system collapses and in that collapse the most likely result is one or a group of people simply saying "ok, I'm in charge forever now then."

you're contradicting your earlier claim that it's not how it currently works. your own words. not mine.

In what way is that contradictory? I do not recall ever stating that all the government does is screw people over.

so is the system "now working in practice" or is it not?

That's a complete cherry pick from a longer sentence. Cherry picking is a fallacy. Let's go back to what I fully said for context:

"I know this falls on deaf ears for you, but this stuff is part of the "social contract" in that people can't just derive benefit from the government without giving back in return. That was the basic idea behind the country. You are governed, but governed by your consent. The government does for you, and you give something in return, a symbiosis that benefits both. That of course is not how it is now working in practice....but that is the basic idea behind these things."

This was not meant to say that the government is doing NOTHING at all for the people. What I was trying to get at is the symbiosis has become imperfect due to a multitude of factors, both at the Federal and State levels (though since there are 50 states, each citizen's mileage is going to vary depending on which one they live in). I was speaking of the whole having flaws and breaks we need to fix. But that does not mean that absolutely nothing is working. Perhaps I should have been more clear.

not the nouns that are labeled under the category "necessary". the adjective itself. how do you quantify it? what is it's definition? why would i want police? why would i want emergency response teams?

So you aren't robbed, killed, or die from catastrophes like fire, medical emergencies, etc.....did you REALLY need that explained to you? Seriously? Please also keep in mind that these are but mere examples and there are other and varied things that these services are doing and providing for you that I may be missing.

it's the word the op had a beef with and explicitly mentioned in their post. the president having the power to "wage" war. the word you were trying to refute by saying the president does not have the power to "declare" war.

The OP is not an American Citizen, and the OP has shown he has a woefully incomplete knowledge of the topic he tried to broach, I assume that's why now it's just you and me still talking, that he's realized that and bowed out. As I've repeatedly pointed out, while the President cannot declare War, once it is declared, he as "Commander in Chief" is indeed the top commander in it's waging and decision making. But thanks to the Commander In Chief title, a President has power to deploy troops without a formal Congressional Declaration. We're arguing in circles with this point.

you conveniently ignored executive orders to begin "conflicts" which for all intents and purposes are the same thing as wars, but do not require congress' approval to initiate. obama's bombing of lybia was not sanctioned by congress, but it was fully legal.

I've actually been bringing up this fact repeatedly dude. It's you that's ignoring me. I just brought it up again above. Also no, bombings are NOT the same as wars. They are acts of aggression yes, they are military in nature yes, but they are not definable as war all by themselves. That may be YOUR definition, but it is not the legal one, nor is it in any way an objective fact.

strawman.

In no way is that a strawman. You can't just throw out logical fallacies with nothing to back them. I accused you of a False Dilemma, I posted the definition of what one is. What you did was a classic False Dilemma. You provided only two options when there are at the very least 3. That you personally disagree with that does not change the truth of it.

a false dilemma is basically black and white thinking in events where grey may exist. the paragraph i wrote about freedom might have applied here if i had attempted to lay an objective claim that there was nothing resembling a middle ground. i did not.

That's not what I was calling the false dilemma "Mr. Picker of the Cherries, and Re-framer of Discussion". What I was calling a false dilemma was this bit:

"i have evidence to substantiate my claims of what i know. even if you do too, best case scenario for you is that we're the same, you and i.

process of elimination dictates that."

You posit these are the only choices. But you are wrong. They are not. If I have evidence to prove that I am right and you are not, then we are not the same. Process of elimination comes into that not at all as a way to prove your thesis. Therefore the dilemma is false.

i just said there wasn't a such thing as an objective middle ground either. it's all subjective and only the extremes can be considered objective.

So because you said it, it must be true? I forgot, that's why having a conversation with you is useless. You think you know all the answers already and you just change the questions when you're proven wrong or challenged

because frankly, there's no options to choose between.....

Another falsehood, yay!

i've concluded you don't actually know what you're talking about any more than i appear to. that's why i'm turning you into a joke.

I don't think so sir....but whatever helps you sleep. I think this'll be my last attempt for now then.

no, because there's a chance it might have a kernel of truth to it. a bomb might actually exist and people might actually die.

So we investigate the claim to find out the truth of it. The problem for you, if I follow with your example, is even if I search the school, come back to you and say "well mystic my lad, I've searched everywhere, and there's no bomb" you would insist there still is because you don't believe in objective and concrete things, you're lost in a relativist game where nothing is certain so long as you don't believe it is.

but you also don't have a choice in the matter either. because in the "unlikely event" that i'm right, everyone dies.

Right, and that is why the claim is tested.

but the more rational thing to do is the former. fear my ludicrous-seeming claims because there's a chance, however small, that i'm right. better safe than sorry.

But again, you test the claim because to ignore it as you said is to court disaster. But my problem with you is no matter how completely the claim is proven false, you will still claim that it somehow could be true, or is true. Because in the end, you believe you are always right and correct.

not at all. for being able to sway people to my point of view.

When has that ever occured? Right now it's just you and me talking and as I always have, I still vehemently disagree with you because I find you to be an arrogant pseudo-intellectual who says nothing of value and continues to wallow in relativism and ignorance. You declare victory just because you are you. That is truly why no one takes you seriously.

At 5/23/16 11:20 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

By allowing themselves to be governed, and by participating in it through electing representatives and such. It's not perfect by any stretch, but Democracy so far is the best protection we've been able to find against tyranny or chaos.

;;;
I would like to point out one of the biggest flaws with Democracy. & history shows it again & again(& most other Government systems as well.)

Is those elected to work of the people, end up enacting legislation & rule changes that end up putting them in charge of us. Which leads to further development of enacting legislation that they are the leaders, & 'rights' of the people have to be taken away from those they are suppose to "serve" & it becomes , you have to follow the leader(s)
Or you are a shit disturber, a other titles given to make the majority who don't recognize the leaders are no longer working for them , but for their own interests .... And you end up with things like those who disagree with the leaders are UNAMERICAN ... & those of you who blindly follow are 'Patriots' ! as an example

(what a crock of shit disguised as peanut butter that is )

When the fact is anytime, those in Government enact legislation, the so called civil servants who put these laws in place do so, often to the detriment of the population they are suppose to "serve"
If you are putting something in place...like the draft.... where the citizens of the country have not willingly asked for or want to do this "something" ie; the draft. Then more laws are passed to punish the people by the leaders to FORCE YOU to do what they want....not what the people want.

Another perfect example, the forfeiture laws , where police forces can seize anything from anyone, in the USA & just call it suspected drug money, or proceeds from crime. They don't even have to charge you . YOU , have to go & apply & fight to get your stuff back, most people don't bother because of the rules & cost to do so ..... those that do "MOST WIN ...But at the cost of legal bills etc etc to stop a system put in place to seize drug traffickers assets, but since cops get a kick back ....sorry a percentage of what is seized, its turned into a 60 + BILLION DOLLAR rip off much of it against law abiding citizens who are being manipulated by cops. And the Government loves it because they get half. By not charging you , they aren't 'burdening the legal system'

The draft thing I read was like a final straw for me & I started this thread.
But don't believe me , that is fine If it makes you feel better call me a whack job. My points still stand up, my main 1 being

1)- Your so called 'rights' are an illusion, & most of you are to taken in by the BS you have been fed to realize it.
it isn't equal rights to subject men & now women to the same misguided legislation SUCCESSIVE WRONGS WILL NEVER MAKE SOMETHING RIGHT

What I really wish is that more people would wake the fuck up & realize that

At 5/26/16 11:57 AM, morefngdbs wrote: Is those elected to work of the people, end up enacting legislation & rule changes that end up putting them in charge of us. Which leads to further development of enacting legislation that they are the leaders, & 'rights' of the people have to be taken away from those they are suppose to "serve" & it becomes , you have to follow the leader(s)
Or you are a shit disturber, a other titles given to make the majority who don't recognize the leaders are no longer working for them , but for their own interests .... And you end up with things like those who disagree with the leaders are UNAMERICAN ... & those of you who blindly follow are 'Patriots' ! as an example

Agreed, it's a crap situation. But in the end, those people aren't in forever, it's still a majority of the electorate showing up....putting them in, and deciding that's what they want. This is why I harp on all my friends about how important it is to take that time to show up and vote, because when you don't, it makes it easier for the wrong type of folks to get in. The system is broken, but for me that can't get fixed until voters stop being apathetic and pointing to the flaws as an excuse to not even try.

When the fact is anytime, those in Government enact legislation, the so called civil servants who put these laws in place do so, often to the detriment of the population they are suppose to "serve"

I don't necessarily agree with this. There are many bad laws that get put into place, but there's a difference between a law that has good intent, but negative consequence....and just plain old corruption or similar where you put in a bad law, know it's bad, and don't care because you're getting some benefit. People need to take the time to learn the difference instead of just lazily lumping it all together.

If you are putting something in place...like the draft.... where the citizens of the country have not willingly asked for or want to do this "something" ie; the draft. Then more laws are passed to punish the people by the leaders to FORCE YOU to do what they want....not what the people want.

The draft was a bad law, no doubt. People fought it, and it's de-activated now. It's not completely repealed or gone, and I think it should be. But in reality I don't foresee a circumstance anytime soon where it'll be brought back because people would figure out who was behind it and vote them out. These guys don't want to risk that.

Another perfect example, the forfeiture laws , where police forces can seize anything from anyone, in the USA & just call it suspected drug money, or proceeds from crime. They don't even have to charge you . YOU , have to go & apply & fight to get your stuff back, most people don't bother because of the rules & cost to do so ..... those that do "MOST WIN ...But at the cost of legal bills etc etc to stop a system put in place to seize drug traffickers assets, but since cops get a kick back ....sorry a percentage of what is seized, its turned into a 60 + BILLION DOLLAR rip off much of it against law abiding citizens who are being manipulated by cops. And the Government loves it because they get half. By not charging you , they aren't 'burdening the legal system'

Again, another terrible law.

But don't believe me , that is fine If it makes you feel better call me a whack job. My points still stand up, my main 1 being

I don't think you're a whack job. I think you're worrying about something that technically still exists....but hasn't been used in a long time, and most likely will never be used again because it'd be political suicide. I think you are focusing on something that is a non-issue when there are so many bigger and better ones to bring attention to. Like some of the ones you mentioned above.

You're right that people have to stand up for themselves and their rights, and if they dont, they will lose them....but I also think you continue to fail to grasp that you aren't going to simply be press ganged into service and get no useful skills from it. The American Military isn't just people shooting guns and dropping bombs. There's some really useful real world skills you can learn and take back to civilian life from it as well. It's not all bad, it's not all good.

At 5/26/16 06:01 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

There's some really useful real world skills you can learn and take back to civilian life from it as well. It's not all bad, it's not all good.

;;
I have never said that the military or those who serve are all bad, nor have I meant to imply that the military is useless *& gives no value.

What I do not believe in is forcing the citizenry into having to do it.

I also do not believe that if you don't do military service, you are a 2nd class citizen, with benefits etc (lets call it a class system) where 1 class, who do military service are treated better & with higher perks , tax breaks etc etc than a 2nd class citizen who only is the family doctor in a small town, or the farmer etc.

As someone who has taken an active leader role in my Union, with 1 elected term as the NS Provincial Rep, 2 terms as VP & now in my 3rd as Treasurer. I have been either leading or involved in putting Life Insurance paid out of Union Dues for all members up to & inclusive age 75. A medical, Dental, Dismemberment, Injured/sick worker plan that picks up up to 80% of costs of care , not done by our Countries Med system, with 100% for injured/sick members. Inclusive in that is a policy i drafted & had adopted by the local to pay the Union Dues for those sick & Injured members so they stay in the Plans (only Union Members are/& can be covered ...Taxation Gov rule BS)
A pay back of safety 7 job skill training that is $100.00 more than a member pays in Yearly Dues.

Leading by doing for the members, not doing it to the members ...if you get my drift

At 5/27/16 07:53 AM, morefngdbs wrote: I have never said that the military or those who serve are all bad, nor have I meant to imply that the military is useless *& gives no value.

You compared the draft to slavery. Is there a good version of slavery? Also, slavery would by it's nature imply that while a valuable service is being performed, it is not being compensated for. So that's where I'm coming off from in what I'm accusing you of. Maybe next time you should dial the rhetoric back a bit.

What I do not believe in is forcing the citizenry into having to do it.

I don't either. Most people don't, that's why the draft was de-activated and is unlikely to ever be re-activated unless we massively change the kinds of wars and armed conflicts we want to get ourselves into.

I also do not believe that if you don't do military service, you are a 2nd class citizen, with benefits etc (lets call it a class system) where 1 class, who do military service are treated better & with higher perks , tax breaks etc etc than a 2nd class citizen who only is the family doctor in a small town, or the farmer etc.

I don't either. Good thing none of that is happening then.

Gah, you don't even know what slavery is.

Anyways, we allow women to serve in the military... Why not draft them?

At 5/27/16 05:48 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 5/27/16 07:53 AM, morefngdbs wrote: I have never said that the military or those who serve are all bad, nor have I meant to imply that the military is useless *& gives no value.

You compared the draft to slavery. Is there a good version of slavery? Also, slavery would by it's nature imply that while a valuable service is being performed, it is not being compensated for.

;;;
My apologies, When someone is forced into servitude by a master , or the Government , who uses their chain of command (aka masters) to do what they would not do without being forced into it...that is forced servitude & forced servitude is a form of slavery,

What I do not believe in is forcing the citizenry into having to do it.

I don't either. Most people don't, that's why the draft was de-activated and is unlikely to ever be re-activated unless we massively change the kinds of wars and armed conflicts we want to get ourselves into.

;sorry dude, deactivated , what has that to do with, you are about to enact legislation to make woman subject to the same violation of their rights as men. If it IS DEACTIVATED & WILL NOT BE USED (as you have said) then the obvious legislation should be to REMOVE the requirement for men ...NOT ADD the requirement women do it ...& CALL It EQUALITY !
Please dude , the Movie line "Don't piss down my back & tell me its raining" fits amazingly well here !

I also do not believe that if you don't do military service, you are a 2nd class citizen, with benefits etc (lets call it a class system) where 1 class, who do military service are treated better & with higher perks , tax breaks etc etc than a 2nd class citizen who only is the family doctor in a small town, or the farmer etc.

I don't either. Good thing none of that is happening then.

But it is.
If you do not register read the bill, read the legislation on what can be done to people against this & come back & tell me ...oh its not happening.

At 5/28/16 10:31 AM, morefngdbs wrote:

My apologies, When someone is forced into servitude by a master , or the Government , who uses their chain of command (aka masters) to do what they would not do without being forced into it...that is forced servitude & forced servitude is a form of slavery,

I can see how you arrive at that conclusion. It's pretty logical. I think the problem is how that label is still perceived by US audiences. Also how my own personal definitions and ideas work I guess. While I agree with you in your complete distaste for the concept of the draft, I have a hard time calling it slavery because it's term of servitude does end, and one can leave with a set of useful and marketable skills. Seems we agree broadly, but have some split over details.

;sorry dude, deactivated , what has that to do with, you are about to enact legislation to make woman subject to the same violation of their rights as men. If it IS DEACTIVATED & WILL NOT BE USED (as you have said) then the obvious legislation should be to REMOVE the requirement for men ...NOT ADD the requirement women do it ...& CALL It EQUALITY !

Agreed. But it's not going to happen. This country has a terrible habit of once bad laws like this are enacted (especially when it comes to the military because there is a whole win of Government that is obssessed with the idea of having the most ridiculously large and well equipped army anywhere is the best thing we could ever do), that it won't go away.

I also never said it would never ever be used again. At present we are fighting two wars, no draft was used, in fact We haven't had one since 1973. So to me it seems very improbable (though not impossible) that they will be instating another one.

Please dude , the Movie line "Don't piss down my back & tell me its raining" fits amazingly well here !

I'm not saying this is a good thing. I've said a couple times I think the draft is bad and we shouldn't have had it at all. But the amount of bent of shape you're getting and it seems like it's because you aren't necessarily looking at all the facts. There are to me a multitude of bigger issues both in the US and abroad that we should be more focused on.

But it is.
If you do not register read the bill, read the legislation on what can be done to people against this & come back & tell me ...oh its not happening.

How does being arrested for not complying with the law fit in with what you're saying? Because if that's your standard, then really, what you're saying is that it's not fair that anyone who commits a crime is punished for it and doesn't get to have the same outcomes as those that don't. Which is just silly.

I cant understand exactly the articles in english.
The us- army make a list of teenagers and after Car-accidents
as penalty they will call them to make dirty works without paying them???
What is the GENDER of the TOP generals?Are they (male or Female)feminists??
The war is OVER for the usa.They-you have not more money for another war...If you can call wars
to throw bombs from the airoplanes and after go down and make stupit propaganda movies with idiots veterans (male-bodybuilders and high intelligent karate black belt big ass americana super women.)...
The have not money to pay the pro soldiers this is WHY they want the draft-law
Wakeup

They've been wanting to have both sexes to be included in the draft for years. I was told a lot as a kid to keep my grades up because they usually go for the people who have shitty grades to be drafted in the military. Drafts, and all this shit has always existed and there will never be a stop to it. It will only take on different forms.