Animator's making a living?

[Projects-Dev]

Hi.
I just wanted to ask how most animators make a living now-a-days on the internet.

since Youtube snorted co-

since Youtube had an idea to make Youtube beneficial specifically for Gamers.

I did hear from RicePirate, Sexualobster that Newgrounds made some reforms to bringing back animators with a reasonable pay for their animation, "mentioned in a Tom Fulp post, but I lost the link."

my question still stands how do animators make a good buck off their animations on the web, and does it involve NG?

if so, I'd also like to know how to works!
thank you for taking your time reading and-or helping.

[FrameFreak2D]

Well we do, but it's not like YouTube or something like that, we have zero hopes for YouTube xD but still monetized the channel under Frederator Network. Still there are some other ways like Patreon (we just started ours) but we live mostly from animated sales videos or tv ads done for clients all over the world. And we won some prizes (two $30K prizes and one $55K prize) to make the pilots of our animated series.

Still, you will have to decide if you want to do animation as a hobby or as a living, and if you want to make money through animation then you will have to act and think as an entrepreneur, and see this thing as a business. Which for many people is hard, since there's never a moment of rest and it's 100% up to you, and nobody will come to save you.

However, even though is hard, is not as hard a you would imagine (if you have the will and the material for it) and definitely not impossible. I'll let Stephen Silver (Lead Character Designer at Disney, made Histeria, Kim Possible, Danny Phantom and many more) answer it for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8q4RX_Hi1w

Cheers :)

[QArtsMedia]

H Hah ha ha ha ah haaaaaaa hha ha reaLLY? THATS PRETTY FUNNY . I hate to burst any ones bubble.... but..... Making it in the arts is dam near impossible. I'm not saying it can't be done, it's just extremely difficult. Most of those willing to hire you have no clue as to what it takes to do our type of work. Think it can be achieved over night for an entire 20 minute animated episode or a commercial. No planning it out, no script, no story board, no character development on their part, and want it done in 24 hours. Want to pay you next to nothing and I mean pennies per hour and expect Disney quality. And think that revisions should be free and will only take seconds to complete. It boggles my mind when I see posts here from people that supposedly know their sh*% taking about producing minutes of animation a day at Disney quality. I call BS to that. You have NOT got an F'n clue, so shut the F! up and crawl back under the rock you came from! Sorry had to vent that one.

We are currently working on developing a Sci fi series "Yinhe` Max" from scratch and I tell you its a butt ton of work with absolutely no guarantee that it will ever pan out. And yes its a good story and great artwork. But that does not mean it will catch on or generate revenue. look at the hundreds of obscure anime projects that exist.

To the Newbies:
Colleges pump out new talent without the slightest hint as to what the job market can actually support cause they are in the business of creating paper certificates(diplomas) and don't care if you can land a job or not. And new grads are facing some very tough competition from people who have stood the test of time, developed a reputation and industry contacts, and are very, very good at what they do.

I am in no way being negative here, just being realistic and so should you if you decide to pursue a career in the arts.

Best of luck to anyone who takes this path, you are going to need it.

Sincerely Max Power
Q-Arts Media

[Projects-Dev]

At 12/16/15 01:13 AM, FrameFreak2D wrote: Well we do, but it's not like YouTube or something like that, we have zero hopes for YouTube xD but still monetized the channel under Frederator Network. Still there are some other ways like Patreon (we just started ours) but we live mostly from animated sales videos or tv ads done for clients all over the world. And we won some prizes (two $30K prizes and one $55K prize) to make the pilots of our animated series.

like the link mentions, you cant get those opportunities unless you put yourself out there. I cant join studios or whatever until I do. I just wish I could get a little something out of my weeks and if not months of work, which'll end up as one video for my portfolio out of hundreds

Still, you will have to decide if you want to do animation as a hobby or as a living, and if you want to make money through animation then you will have to act and think as an entrepreneur, and see this thing as a business. Which for many people is hard, since there's never a moment of rest and it's 100% up to you, and nobody will come to save you.

I want to start safe and make it a hobby, and maybe itll take over my normal job
this doesn't really answer my question about newgrounds helping or not, and ways to actually start out.
even patreon people want to see a list of your work. take gonzossm or Sexualobster for example. theyre pretty dam well known with their largely dedicated portfolio. if all they've been working for 2-3 years at most

non-stop might I add. and they still need support!

[Projects-Dev]

At 12/16/15 10:10 AM, QArtsMedia wrote:

We are currently working on developing a Sci fi series "Yinhe` Max" from scratch and I tell you its a butt ton of work with absolutely no guarantee that it will ever pan out. And yes its a good story and great artwork. But that does not mean it will catch on or generate revenue. look at the hundreds of obscure anime projects that exist.

do I look like someone who made tons of cartoons in a matter or minutes? dude. im on Newgrounds.

To the Newbies:
Colleges pump out new talent without the slightest hint as to what the job market can actually support cause they are in the business of creating paper certificates(diplomas) and don't care if you can land a job or not. And new grads are facing some very tough competition from people who have stood the test of time, developed a reputation and industry contacts, and are very, very good at what they do.

I am in no way being negative here, just being realistic and so should you if you decide to pursue a career in the arts.

Best of luck to anyone who takes this path, you are going to need it.

thanks. I don't blame you, I heard enough to know how difficult it can be. but that really doesn't answer my question regarding newgrounds... I feel like people are coming here to vent out how they feel about their living instead of answering my question regarding the speech the creator of this site, Tom Fulp has made about his aid to helping animators strive in his site. I feel like none of you even read that post, or know about the animators in youtube who constantly mentioned it. nearly each and every youtube animator I know mentioned that post, or supported it, but I never got filled in

[FrameFreak2D]

I want to start safe and make it a hobby, and maybe itll take over my normal job
this doesn't really answer my question about newgrounds helping or not, and ways to actually start out.
even patreon people want to see a list of your work. take gonzossm or Sexualobster for example. theyre pretty dam well known with their largely dedicated portfolio. if all they've been working for 2-3 years at most

Well, from what I seen Newgrounds has probably the best chance of helping you start on your own (if not we wouldn't be here xD) there's almost a million members here and you just have to grow enough true fans of your work. Of course, that's easier said than done :) but even if those fans don't donate money to you, the numbers always help a lot, if you have a lot of views and likes, and comments you will have there the numbers to see your project come to life :) if you learn how to pitch and you have an audience that's supporting you that's it. This is pretty much the model that's Frederator is using now to bring projects to life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxQ1oH1SoKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6-0-lzTVTo

[Projects-Dev]

Well, from what I seen Newgrounds has probably the best chance of helping you start on your own (if not we wouldn't be here xD) there's almost a million members here and you just have to grow enough true fans of your work. Of course, that's easier said than done :) but even if those fans don't donate money to you, the numbers always help a lot, if you have a lot of views and likes, and comments you will have there the numbers to see your project come to life :) if you learn how to pitch and you have an audience that's supporting you that's it. This is pretty much the model that's Frederator is using now to bring projects to life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxQ1oH1SoKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6-0-lzTVTo

so I can get a reasonable living off of views likes and what-not in NG. okay that's neat.
I really like the video you shared. as someone who tried making long projects, I see that I should focus small and good before I extend myself to something long and awesome. I always noticed my artwork or animations we're getting better and better as I worked on it. that in the end for example, i'd have the first 15 seconds garbage, and the rest less garbage. almost like a completely different person and-or style has taken over.

I know you're maybe trying to get people to sign up for Frederator, but I don't think I'm nearly as talented as the people in the video. im going to practice before I go live and embarrass myself in-front of professionals

[tenfouranimation]

I've been working as a flash animator for 15 years.
I did do a great year in animation school which gave me the best start. Mostly because of the people you meet. I'm still friends with them all today and we are all in varying industries now.

Though some of the responses you've garnered resonate with me, I find them a bit negative.
Maybe the truth hurts a bit. I can't say I disagree with what's being said, but everybody will have a different experience that will shape them over years of doing work like this... I've met quite a few people that have become a bit "hardened" over the years or have even thrown up their hands and left it all for something stable.
Though I don't think I've had an extremely difficult time trying to make a living for myself, there are many ups and downs to it that can't be ignored.

It's been a challenge to make desirable income on a regular basis, unless you are going with a studio. But depending on the studio, your experience in animation could totally suck... it's a personal thing that is really derived from what you make of it and what you learn from experience.
If you are a positive, creative person, with a great eye for detail and an abundance of patience, this could be your calling. If you are a person always in a hurry, doesn't want to keep learning, doesn't like having his work critiqued or wants the glory of calling something done when he wants, maybe you could try being a producer. (haha though I'm half kidding)

Anyways, I don't want to discourage anybody. Though the graphic design studios were usually the places to learn the most from others doing what I do, I am much happier choosing my work as a freelancer. The freedom at the moment is worth it to me. Some folks like being in an office 12 hours a day, working the free OT... I've decided I want something different and have put my efforts to something more personally fulfilling.

But that's another story that comes along with practice, and the willingness to keep going. I'd say you almost need to forget what some are saying in here and try to have what I call an "ignorance to the fact that the odds are against you".

I got into this because I thought animation was all funny hats, funny voices, funny faces in mirrors. It's a lifestyle and one that often won't include making cash. It's the other side of it that I think has the true lovers of animation hooked.

Tips to succeed?>
Learn to make good work first, and the good stuff will come with time. Have that spirit of effort to improve, which it sounds like you already have. And DO be willing to poke around the Frederator network... It's not a place to be embarrassed about work... getting used to opinions you don't like, is paramount. You also live in the age of communication and there are people in there with FREE info to save you time! Again, going to school (even a summer class) will be invaluable if you are serious.

Follow Steven Silver's Youtube channel as most his stories on lifestyle will relate to you. He is also incredibly uplifting at times when you need, and always inspiring!

Buy the Animation Survival Guide for study... Richard Williams.
...and also this book which really helped me as far as industry stories go. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Career-Animation-Survive-Thrive-ebook/dp/B0040ZNZSA

Don't be discouraged.
Do it on the side first.
Get opinions and be humble always.
And then, do it until it's not fun anymore.

I can't think of any better advice to offer, personally.

There are people who make something special and memorable in animation. Something that sticks. Keep inspired/
They have all started at the same spot you are, so have some comfort in that fact and just keep doing it, no matter what.

If you want it enough... you can get where you want.

[Projects-Dev]

At 12/17/15 02:34 AM, tenfouranimation wrote:

It's been a challenge to make desirable income on a regular basis, unless you are going with a studio. But depending on the studio, your experience in animation could totally suck... it's a personal thing that is really derived from what you make of it and what you learn from experience.
If you are a positive, creative person, with a great eye for detail and an abundance of patience, this could be your calling. If you are a person always in a hurry, doesn't want to keep learning, doesn't like having his work critiqued or wants the glory of calling something done when he wants, maybe you could try being a producer. (haha though I'm half kidding)

I feel like I should start by being my own boss. making my own production. but I always fear that if I do, I wont get anything since im starting out. that's why im clinging to NG for a good start
I see where you're going too. I do want to learn.
you probably wont believe me, but each time I see an awesome/touching animation. especially ones made by someone younger than me. I die on the inside. like, literally feel sick that I cant achieve something like that. I am determined, and I know I might be able to achieve good quality once I finally get a tablet... its like DbZ heavy armor. I just need to figure out how to strip.

Anyways, I don't want to discourage anybody. Though the graphic design studios were usually the places to learn the most from others doing what I do, I am much happier choosing my work as a freelancer. The freedom at the moment is worth it to me. Some folks like being in an office 12 hours a day, working the free OT... I've decided I want something different and have put my efforts to something more personally fulfilling.

wont they be upset I'm not professional? I know some bother to introduce you a little, but not be your teacher and still pay you
yup. I wanna be maybe a free-lancer to some friends, or write my own stuff. cause I know I have good ideas

Tips to succeed?>
Learn to make good work first, and the good stuff will come with time. Have that spirit of effort to improve, which it sounds like you already have. And DO be willing to poke around the Frederator network... It's not a place to be embarrassed about work... getting used to opinions you don't like, is paramount. You also live in the age of communication and there are people in there with FREE info to save you time! Again, going to school (even a summer class) will be invaluable if you are serious.

aww man... I put my email, but I don't have or want a facebook in order to learn! is this all Frederator has to offer? I don't see much options in the link

Buy the Animation Survival Guide for study... Richard Williams.
...and also this book which really helped me as far as industry stories go. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Career-Animation-Survive-Thrive-ebook/dp/B0040ZNZSA

yeah I heard about it. never found it in libraries though. il keep my eyes out though

Don't be discouraged.
Do it on the side first.
Get opinions and be humble always.
And then, do it until it's not fun anymore.

I get discouraged thinking someone younger than me is doing better. and the fact that theres growing fear cartoon wont be worth anything soon. everything will be 3D. which I think is pretty bull

[tenfouranimation]

At 12/19/15 12:39 AM, ProjectAwesomes wrote:

At 12/17/15 02:34 AM, tenfouranimation wrote:

It's been a challenge to make desirable income on a regular basis, unless you are going with a studio. But depending on the studio, your experience in animation could totally suck... it's a personal thing that is really derived from what you make of it and what you learn from experience.
If you are a positive, creative person, with a great eye for detail and an abundance of patience, this could be your calling. If you are a person always in a hurry, doesn't want to keep learning, doesn't like having his work critiqued or wants the glory of calling something done when he wants, maybe you could try being a producer. (haha though I'm half kidding)

I feel like I should start by being my own boss. making my own production. but I always fear that if I do, I wont get anything since im starting out. that's why im clinging to NG for a good start
I see where you're going too. I do want to learn.
you probably wont believe me, but each time I see an awesome/touching animation. especially ones made by someone younger than me. I die on the inside. like, literally feel sick that I cant achieve something like that. I am determined, and I know I might be able to achieve good quality once I finally get a tablet... its like DbZ heavy armor. I just need to figure out how to strip.

Anyways, I don't want to discourage anybody. Though the graphic design studios were usually the places to learn the most from others doing what I do, I am much happier choosing my work as a freelancer. The freedom at the moment is worth it to me. Some folks like being in an office 12 hours a day, working the free OT... I've decided I want something different and have put my efforts to something more personally fulfilling.

wont they be upset I'm not professional? I know some bother to introduce you a little, but not be your teacher and still pay you
yup. I wanna be maybe a free-lancer to some friends, or write my own stuff. cause I know I have good ideas

Tips to succeed?>
Learn to make good work first, and the good stuff will come with time. Have that spirit of effort to improve, which it sounds like you already have. And DO be willing to poke around the Frederator network... It's not a place to be embarrassed about work... getting used to opinions you don't like, is paramount. You also live in the age of communication and there are people in there with FREE info to save you time! Again, going to school (even a summer class) will be invaluable if you are serious.

aww man... I put my email, but I don't have or want a facebook in order to learn! is this all Frederator has to offer? I don't see much options in the link

Buy the Animation Survival Guide for study... Richard Williams.
...and also this book which really helped me as far as industry stories go. http://www.amazon.com/Your-Career-Animation-Survive-Thrive-ebook/dp/B0040ZNZSA

yeah I heard about it. never found it in libraries though. il keep my eyes out though

Don't be discouraged.
Do it on the side first.
Get opinions and be humble always.
And then, do it until it's not fun anymore.

I get discouraged thinking someone younger than me is doing better. and the fact that theres growing fear cartoon wont be worth anything soon. everything will be 3D. which I think is pretty bull

For any profession or hobby you choose, there will always always be someone better. Your focus should only be on how good you are getting by gathering the experience. Everything you create, will make you better, as well as add to your collection/demo. So yeah, there is a struggle period to get in, but again, that's with most professions. Gotta start from the ground. And starting means keeping on with the obsession..

Another thing you'll find in this industry, is everyone has their own ideas. Everyone knows their ideas are great. Explaining that to somebody with money, take a bit more than some doodles on a paper. If you want my personal opinion on personal projects...., the best way to get your idea produced, is to do it yourself. Yeah, people will tell you it'll take forever. Yeah it will. It may even get kicked to the curb for a few years... it's your tenacity that will see your things made. Your ignorance of that fact you could make nothing off of it... I feel like that's key.
Maybe you'll have to come up with short cuts, and ways to make it happen... but this is all part of the invaluable experience that you will have to get at some point to make a go of it. A maybe you'll go down this path and decide... HEY I hate animation and like story boarding... or I like design... and you'll go there. But you'll never know unless you keep going.

Again, I'd say going to school is the best way to find others/ and to experience the insanity and fun of it all. I took a 10 month course to start me out... before then I had some guy show me the ropes once a week just so I could go into school with some extra knowledge. Nothing since then has replicated the amount I not only learned about aniamting, but about how a production is run./
Then again, making web cartoons might be considered a whole different animal all together.

Keep creating things... if you run out of time, put it to the side until you are ready again, and then get at it again.Forget this notion about being too late to the game.
I went to school with fellas that left careers in both firefighting and law just to try. The lawyer runs a studio in the states now and has some Adam Sandler movie under his belt for experience.

Keep positive!

PS-- I don't "Like" facebook either but recognize it as an amazing way to get my work noticed... I hate LinkdIn, Instagram.... yuck. But getting into Web cartoons, I'd say that you will have to find a way to utilize them without gewtting carried away. So when you do release some work, you know where to throw it, other than the obvious website and Newgrounds.

I hope this helps man.

I'm not the greatest guy to ask, but I'm happy to share my experience a bit. Stay encouraged no matter what. Lots of nay-sayers and haters on the internet.

[Projects-Dev]

At 12/20/15 03:59 PM, tenfouranimation wrote:

Another thing you'll find in this industry, is everyone has their own ideas. Everyone knows their ideas are great. Explaining that to somebody with money, take a bit more than some doodles on a paper. If you want my personal opinion on personal projects...., the best way to get your idea produced, is to do it yourself. Yeah, people will tell you it'll take forever. Yeah it will. It may even get kicked to the curb for a few years... it's your tenacity that will see your things made. Your ignorance of that fact you could make nothing off of it... I feel like that's key.

that's what I said. be my own writer/producer

Again, I'd say going to school is the best way to find others/ and to experience the insanity and fun of it all. I took a 10 month course to start me out... before then I had some guy show me the ropes once a week just so I could go into school with some extra knowledge. Nothing since then has replicated the amount I not only learned about aniamting, but about how a production is run./
Then again, making web cartoons might be considered a whole different animal all together.

I guess. most of the popular YT/NG animators seem pretty solo-like animators

Keep creating things... if you run out of time, put it to the side until you are ready again, and then get at it again.Forget this notion about being too late to the game.
I went to school with fellas that left careers in both firefighting and law just to try. The lawyer runs a studio in the states now and has some Adam Sandler movie under his belt for experience.

lol yeah exactly what I want to be. someone who makes income one way, and makes production the other way.
like a hobby, soon to be turned perhaps into a living.

PS-- I don't "Like" facebook either but recognize it as an amazing way to get my work noticed... I hate LinkdIn, Instagram.... yuck. But getting into Web cartoons, I'd say that you will have to find a way to utilize them without gewtting carried away. So when you do release some work, you know where to throw it, other than the obvious website and Newgrounds.

Il probably be more into animations as soon as I get a tablet. so I don't think I need a facebook. only my sense of comedy

I hope this helps man.

I'm not the greatest guy to ask, but I'm happy to share my experience a bit. Stay encouraged no matter what. Lots of nay-sayers and haters on the internet.

thanks for the tips! helped clear my mind on where I'm going with this

[QArtsMedia]

NG is going to be no better or worse than Youtube for your work. In fact you will probably be able to monitize on youtube by far easier because of a bigger user base. But you have to get millions of views to make a grand. NG is a good place to put your portfolio, make a few connections with fellow artists and you may run into someone who actually can use your talents, but so far we have had better returns on CL.
As far as any donations to you from here on NG don't hold your breath. Starting as a hobbist is by far the better way to go. Who knows you may get lucky. Do you have any animations or work to show the group? Get feed back, make inprovements, NG can certainly help with that.

No, please believe me I do not believe you are producing minutes of animation, I was just ranting, as there are by far too many folks here with unrealistic expectations who post some of the wildest crap you ever could imagine, just clearing the air and bringing things into perspective.
I do not think anybody here is making any kind of signicant revenue off of NG doing animation work. Take care

[Projects-Dev]

At 12/29/15 11:20 PM, QArtsMedia wrote: NG is going to be no better or worse than Youtube for your work. In fact you will probably be able to monitize on youtube by far easier because of a bigger user base. But you have to get millions of views to make a grand. NG is a good place to put your portfolio, make a few connections with fellow artists and you may run into someone who actually can use your talents, but so far we have had better returns on CL.
As far as any donations to you from here on NG don't hold your breath. Starting as a hobbist is by far the better way to go. Who knows you may get lucky. Do you have any animations or work to show the group? Get feed back, make inprovements, NG can certainly help with that.

yeah il keep it as a hobby. I think itll be fun for me too to draw with other animators in the future too.
what does CL stand for?

I do not think anybody here is making any kind of signicant revenue off of NG doing animation work. Take care

well that's good to know. guess il never know the amount for sure until I submit an animation or two. but il keep it as a hobby

[QArtsMedia]

yeah il keep it as a hobby. I think itll be fun for me too to draw with other animators in the future too.
what does CL stand for?

Craigs List

[Projects-Dev]

At 12/30/15 12:58 AM, QArtsMedia wrote:

Craigs List

well that's good to know. I thought they only do male prostitution there. but il keep the place in mind