end the fed?

[mrexcellent2190]

should we end the federal reserve and central banking?

[NeonSpider]

At 4/9/15 05:11 PM, mrexcellent2190 wrote: should we end the federal reserve and central banking?

Why? I mean if you're going to make a controversial proposal at least have some reasoning behind it.

Also be more specific. When you say "fed" most people, including me, are going to think "federal government" and not "federal reserve".

It's just sort of a bizarre thing to throw out there with zero explanation or reasoning given.

[Painbringer]

At 4/9/15 05:11 PM, mrexcellent2190 wrote: should we end the federal reserve and central banking?

You couldn't stop it, no matter how hard you try.

And even if the next American revolution somehow managed to destroy both, they would eventually come back in another form.

[Makakaov]

Federal reserve bank Is emmiting money solely on credit, which means that with each emmited dollar, the national debt increases. It doesn't matter a lot though, because it's not a debt to some foreign country, and USA has too big military for someone country to just state the obvious and say that current USD is worth less than toilet paper. Ultimately the country will end up with debt to few rich families which control the FED, which will either end up with biggest slavery case in the world, or few rich guys hanging down from trees and lamp posts and their wealth being looted.

[generalwinter]

I don't think I'm qualified to answer that one. I think the federal reserve is a useful tool, but it should be used as that. It seems to be over-interfering IMHO.

[ThePulp]

Not yet.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/9/15 06:04 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/9/15 05:56 PM, Hoodie wrote: No.

why not? is it really that hard to donate stuff and have stuff donated to you?

is it really that hard to make things you need for yourself?

I suppose you just cobbled together the computer you're typing this on then, and could just cobble together an internet of donated server space run on donated electricity?

Yes. It is hard. It's really hard. There's a reason everyone doesn't even just grow their own produce, something that we've been doing since prehistory. Have you ever made an article of clothing, or butchered an animal, or made a rudimentary tool? I have. Yes, it's that hard.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/10/15 02:20 AM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/10/15 02:10 AM, CorpseGrinderClock wrote:

I suppose you just cobbled together the computer you're typing this on then, and could just cobble together an internet of donated server space run on donated electricity?

i dont "need" this internet.

You sure need it to slather psuedo-anarchic rhetoric all over flash game webforums

i know i sound like neonspider right now and i dont even mind.

...not gonna touch that one.

i can whittle nicely.

With a whittled stone knife?

i can chip stones fine.

Can you live easily on tools made this way?

these pointy objects are fine digging tools.
i've also grown my own plants.

Have you ever farmed enough to live on with a wooden/stone farming tool?

shot my own elk. skinned it and cooked it. fished some trout and cooked those too.

You shot an elk with stone tipped arrows, skinned it with a flint scraper, caught trout with a homemade pole/spear/net, gutted/butchered them, and cooked them over a fire made without matches?

Color me impressed if you did all that.

So why are you here on the internet now instead of doing that?

it's backbreaking work to make more complex things but that's why i intend to wait until the future has come and the replicator device is a thing to make it happen.

A replicator device which is going to be made...how? Powered how? Gets its raw materials from where? Seems like ending the fed on a "but when star trek happens we won't need it" doesn't seem like a terribly prudent decision.

It's not just "backbreaking work" to make other stuff, in many cases it's downright impossible. You can't just carve an artificial heart out of wood, or chip stone into an engine block.

[NewgroundsNation]

should we

[5ERGEI]

At 4/9/15 05:11 PM, mrexcellent2190 wrote: should we end the federal reserve and central banking?

definitely

[injexen]

I definitely agree that those two entities are making a huge mess of things, but they're so tightly integrated that we can't just remove them out of the blue.

[karategangster]

I gather central banking is really important when you're likely to be faced with crises like recessions, because it provides the option of buying up national debt in order to pay it back during recovery and thereby avoid defaulting (which is why Eurozone countries without their own central banks and an obstinate ECB suffered), so if you're sticking with the global capitalist model and let's face it you are then it's pretty vital. As for the distribution of QE funds etc there are probably questions to be asked, but more likely along the lines of reform.

[RiverofBloodyTears2]

Oh yes, let us end all governments as well, and let us have anarchy roam the streets uncontrollably, and let us resort back to a Darwinism way of life, and let us have foreign invaders attack our shores and rape our women spreading the tainted water, lets have this all happen, lets do a bargaining system as well making all product worthless, oh yes, we are quite progressing expediently

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/10/15 03:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/10/15 03:17 AM, CorpseGrinderClock wrote:

You sure need it to slather psuedo-anarchic rhetoric all over flash game webforums

and would i need to slather anarchic rhetoric all over webforums if laws and money didnt exist anymore? not likely.

YA GOT ME THERE BUDDY

At 4/10/15 03:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: wood on wood actually.

You're telling me you whittled wood with wood

Can you live easily on tools made this way?

is life easy? never.. but i can do it

Seeing as the question was "would it really be that hard"?

Have you ever farmed enough to live on with a wooden/stone farming tool?

i dont need as much food as the average person so yeah, i have actually.

Bullshit.

shot my own elk. skinned it and cooked it. fished some trout and cooked those too.

You shot an elk with stone tipped arrows, skinned it with a flint scraper, caught trout with a homemade pole/spear/net, gutted/butchered them, and cooked them over a fire made without matches?

elk no. trout yes.

Really? Made your pole/spear out of stuff you found out in the woods, then?

So why are you here on the internet now instead of doing that?

because my society doesnt exist yet

You don't need a society to do that. Lots of people actually have to live like that.

until star trek happens i dont want the fed to end just yet

well when 2260 rolls around let's have a dialogue on that.

It's not just "backbreaking work" to make other stuff, in many cases it's downright impossible. You can't just carve an artificial heart out of wood, or chip stone into an engine block.

you can however forge them. build your own furnace. beat your own metal. if the medieval era knew engines or artificial hearts would be in demand or even exist, they could probably have made them with their own technology if we gave them the blueprints.

So you're envisioning being a subsistence farmer, stonemason, blacksmith, miner, engineer and heart surgeon then?

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/10/15 08:32 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: i use the sharp wood to carve the blunt wood into the shape i need.

Bullshit.

it's not easy. it's not hard either.

More bullshit

i dont need as much food as the average person so yeah, i have actually.

Bullshit.

look, i might be a bit malnourished but i assure you i'm surviving just fine. everything i cook i cook for myself, and i rarely cook.

Yeah because cooking was what I was asking about and not farming oh wait no

Really? Made your pole/spear out of stuff you found out in the woods, then?

indeed. a sharpened stake isnt that hard to make at all. make one from a sufficiently lengthy branch, and there's your spear. no need to bother tying a spearhead to it when you can make it a one part tool.

So you subsisted out in the woods spearing fish with a sharpened stick

did you sharpen it with wood too?

You don't need a society to do that. Lots of people actually have to live like that.

that's nott what i'm saying... i dont need to live like that so it's irrelevant. i have more urgent obligations to attend to.

Like ending the fed to enforce a lifestyle that most people don't want to live, apparently yourself included?

well when 2260 rolls around let's have a dialogue on that.

no. star trek tech wont happen in the future if we dont talk to engineers interested in researching them today.

Hey engineers cobble us up some star trek here's a stick and a slightly sharper stick get to work

So you're envisioning being a subsistence farmer, stonemason, blacksmith, miner, engineer and heart surgeon then?

i'm envisioning those professions being entirely unnecessary apart from the surgeon once that replicator gets in.

So your whole "nuh uh you can forge your own" argument comes to an end, being just resorting to waiting on the imaginary machina ex machina?

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 03:06 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: what's bullshit about it? you just need to follow the grain properly..

No, it's bullshit. You did not whittle wood with wood.

At 4/11/15 03:06 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: in the end does it matter?

Yes.

At 4/11/15 03:06 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: a sharpened stake isnt a complex shape. a broken branch is pointy enough to harpoon a fish with.

Just stop.

At 4/11/15 03:06 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: no. we wouldnt be going back to the stone ages until after star trek was already a thing.

...

So your whole "nuh uh you can forge your own" argument comes to an end, being just resorting to waiting on the imaginary machina ex machina?

it's still a valid point of mine.

Not really.

your post was 753 characters in length, 85.92% of which was taken up by quoted text. Please include only the quoted parts that are relevant in your post before trying to post your message again

There are strange things done in the midnight sun
By the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales
That would make your blood run cold;
The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
But the queerest they ever did see
Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
I cremated Sam McGee.

Now Sam McGee was from Tennessee, where the cotton blooms and blows.
Why he left his home in the South to roam 'round the Pole, God only knows.
He was always cold, but the land of gold seemed to hold him like a spell;
Though he'd often say in his homely way that "he'd sooner live in hell."

On a Christmas Day we were mushing our way over the Dawson trail.
Talk of your cold! through the parka's fold it stabbed like a driven nail.
If our eyes we'd close, then the lashes froze till sometimes we couldn't see;
It wasn't much fun, but the only one to whimper was Sam McGee.

And that very night, as we lay packed tight in our robes beneath the snow,
And the dogs were fed, and the stars o'erhead were dancing heel and toe,
He turned to me, and "Cap," says he, "I'll cash in this trip, I guess;
And if I do, I'm asking that you won't refuse my last request."

Well, he seemed so low that I couldn't say no; then he says with a sort of moan:
"It's the cursèd cold, and it's got right hold till I'm chilled clean through to the bone.
Yet 'tain't being dead—it's my awful dread of the icy grave that pains;
So I want you to swear that, foul or fair, you'll cremate my last remains."

A pal's last need is a thing to heed, so I swore I would not fail;
And we started on at the streak of dawn; but God! he looked ghastly pale.
He crouched on the sleigh, and he raved all day of his home in Tennessee;
And before nightfall a corpse was all that was left of Sam McGee.

There wasn't a breath in that land of death, and I hurried, horror-driven,
With a corpse half hid that I couldn't get rid, because of a promise given;
It was lashed to the sleigh, and it seemed to say: "You may tax your brawn and brains,
But you promised true, and it's up to you to cremate those last remains."

Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code.
In the days to come, though my lips were dumb, in my heart how I cursed that load.
In the long, long night, by the lone firelight, while the huskies, round in a ring,
Howled out their woes to the homeless snows— O God! how I loathed the thing.

And every day that quiet clay seemed to heavy and heavier grow;
And on I went, though the dogs were spent and the grub was getting low;
The trail was bad, and I felt half mad, but I swore I would not give in;
And I'd often sing to the hateful thing, and it hearkened with a grin.

Till I came to the marge of Lake Lebarge, and a derelict there lay;
It was jammed in the ice, but I saw in a trice it was called the "Alice May."
And I looked at it, and I thought a bit, and I looked at my frozen chum;
Then "Here," said I, with a sudden cry, "is my cre-ma-tor-eum."

Some planks I tore from the cabin floor, and I lit the boiler fire;
Some coal I found that was lying around, and I heaped the fuel higher;
The flames just soared, and the furnace roared—such a blaze you seldom see;
And I burrowed a hole in the glowing coal, and I stuffed in Sam McGee.

Then I made a hike, for I didn't like to hear him sizzle so;
And the heavens scowled, and the huskies howled, and the wind began to blow.
It was icy cold, but the hot sweat rolled down my cheeks, and I don't know why;
And the greasy smoke in an inky cloak went streaking down the sky.

I do not know how long in the snow I wrestled with grisly fear;
But the stars came out and they danced about ere again I ventured near;
I was sick with dread, but I bravely said: "I'll just take a peep inside.
I guess he's cooked, and it's time I looked"; ... then the door I opened wide.

And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar;
And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: "Please close that door.
It's fine in here, but I greatly fear you'll let in the cold and storm—
Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it's the first time I've been warm."

There are strange things done in the midnight sun
By the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales
That would make your blood run cold;
The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
But the queerest they ever did see
Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
I cremated Sam McGee.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 03:34 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: whatever you need as proof that i can provide, i'll give you if you request..

I'll eat my words if you provide a video of you legitimately whittling with wood.

At 4/11/15 03:34 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: so implications are insufficient for you. good to know.

I don't know what you even claim to mean by that. There is a difference between farming and cooking. I cook my own food, and I know that's a completely different thing from farming it.

At 4/11/15 03:34 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

Just stop.

i cant stop whatever it is if you dont tell me what i'm doing.

Stop the yarn. You've gone from "I fished", to "I fished with stuff I made" to "I spearfished" to "I spearfished with a broken branch and cooked it over a fire made without matches". The tale just keeps getting taller and taller.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 04:01 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/11/15 03:42 PM, CorpseGrinderClock wrote:

I'll eat my words if you provide a video of you legitimately whittling with wood.

video? i dont own a camcorder nor webcam. only a digital camera.

Pretty much every digital camera made in the last ten years does video.

even then i dont know how to use youtube for anything but commenting.

How fortuitous that we are on newgrounds then
http://www.newgrounds.com/dump

cooking presumes there is something to be cooked. something to be cooked implies it came from somewhere. me not being able to go to the store implies i cant buy anything.. and nobody's donated recently so..

Yes and I totally believe you have access to Newgrounds but not to food.

why would i lie to you? what's the motive? i have other stuff to fall back on if this argument fails..

and it's not like i'm claiming to have built my own spacecraft and flown to another galaxy and come back to tell the tale or anything..

No you're just claiming that with medieval tools you could make a star trek replicator and end the fed.

it's simple to cause a spark if you know what stones to strike..

No, it's fucking hard. It's hard as shit to start a fire by striking rocks together. Ask me how I know. You can start a fire with sticks and friction much easier usually, but that's hard as shit too. You can do it a little easier if you have some string to make a bow to spin a stick with and create friction that way, but that's STILL hard as shit. If you have a flint and steel, maybe some magnesium, it gets a bit easier, but it's still not just cake. It can be a pain in the butt to build a proper fire even with matches and good conditions.

it's simple to break a branch into a pointed shape. it's somewhat harder to be agile enough to catch fish with this method but it's not impossible for laymen in the field to do.

I don't believe it's impossible, I just don't believe that you did it.

i told you something i can provide. give me something just as rudimentary as using a digital camera and uploading the photo to imgur.

Guys check it out I can whittle a stick with a square of toilet paper here's proof

[DoctorStrongbad]

They should end the fed and the def.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

this toilet paper is unstoppable guys why do we even need the fed

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 06:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: even then i dont know how to use youtube for anything but commenting.

Well now you do.

At 4/11/15 06:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: why do you think i offered to use imgur links instead of offering to paste the image directly to the bbs? newgrounds still wont take my uploads.

there's a dozen file upload services that'll take video.

At 4/11/15 06:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

Yes and I totally believe you have access to Newgrounds but not to food.

i didnt claim i had no access to food.

Yes, trout you're spearing in mountain streams with broken branches, elk you're shafting with homemade bows and arrows, and produce you're farming with sticks. Right. And then post about on your computer which is hooked up to internet and electricity.

At 4/11/15 06:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: stop strawmanning me. i'm saying with modern tools someone could make a replicator, which would make the fed unnecessary, which would negate the need for continued use of modern tools made by other people and let them live like cavemen if they wanted.

except...

At 4/10/15 03:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: you can however forge them. build your own furnace. beat your own metal. if the medieval era knew engines or artificial hearts would be in demand or even exist, they could probably have made them with their own technology if we gave them the blueprints.

...which is nonsense.

bullcrap. you've been using the wrong rocks.

You know even less about what I'm doing than about what you're doing.

At 4/11/15 06:00 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

I don't believe it's impossible, I just don't believe that you did it.

cheap shot.

I do not believe that you spearfish with broken branches. Not even a little.

Guys check it out I can whittle a stick with a square of toilet paper here's proof

??? how is toilet paper anything like a stick?

Neither of them are worth a damn for whittling stuff with

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 07:53 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: okay then, thank you.. now about the digital camera..

Set it to video. RTFM.

it was years ago i did all that. right now i'm just not eating much.

Right. Except you were just talking about it in a recent context.

At 4/11/15 04:01 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: cooking presumes there is something to be cooked. something to be cooked implies it came from somewhere. me not being able to go to the store implies i cant buy anything.. and nobody's donated recently so..

...so, bullshit.

i was speaking of artificial hearts. not quite the same deal as a replicator. it wouldnt be as quality as if we were to make it with modern technology, but it could still be done.

No it's total bullshit. You can't just fire up the forge and hammer out a lithium ion battery or whittle yourself some plastic.

i have hard times with certain rocks and get sparks quite easy from others.

Getting a spark is not lighting a fire.

i can only conclude you were using a set of rocks that dont work so well

You conclude wrongly.

when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the solution.

Bullshit, Sherlock

Neither of them are worth a damn for whittling stuff with

look, i've addressed that in an edit okay? i somehow missed the image which cropped up in my feed every single time someone bothered to reply to me with one so apparently disregard the "ng should reimplement this" thing..

you can consider that point tipped in your favor until i whip out the video. but until you tell me how the fuck to use my camera i cant do that.

if it matters any, i'll tell you the model.. an olympus fe-170.. at least that looks like what it would call it's identifying marks..

http://www.olympus.co.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/manual/zoom/man_fe170_e.pdf

Page 11. Get whittlin'.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 08:33 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/11/15 08:09 PM, CorpseGrinderClock wrote:

At 4/11/15 07:53 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

Right. Except you were just talking about it in a recent context.

maybe.. sorry.

so what? i never claimed i cooked recently.

Wow doublethink world speed record.

At 4/11/15 08:33 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

No it's total bullshit. You can't just fire up the forge and hammer out a lithium ion battery or whittle yourself some plastic.

wrong artificial heart genius.. you know the original prototype artificial heart was built from nothing more than an erector set and some dime store toy parts. it only worked just over an hour and even then it was used on a dog, but it worked.

Yeah 'cause none of those things are plastic or batteries.

At 4/11/15 08:33 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

Getting a spark is not lighting a fire.

it's the correct step.

It is one step. Finding the right rocks of the right size and type, collecting appropriate tinder, getting a spark to catch and then building and maintaining a fire from those embers is hard, and I can't tell if you really don't get that or if you're just being a schmuck about it.

At 4/11/15 08:33 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote: no it really isnt. i just didnt eliminate all the impossible things. my apologies once again. maybe fire burning materials are your flaw instead? different plants grow in different regions..

I literally live in a pine forest. There is suitable tinder just chilling in the background in a picture I posted this thread.

alrighty then, i'll get right on that and link to it when i'm done.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 09:21 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/11/15 08:09 PM, CorpseGrinderClock wrote:

Page 11. Get whittlin'.

damn thing's resolution wont show the sawdust flying about

...either you think I don't know what whittling is, or you don't know what whittling is.

Either way, color me unsurprised that you're not posting a video.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

At 4/11/15 10:43 PM, mysticvortex13 wrote:

At 4/11/15 10:36 PM, CorpseGrinderClock wrote:

Either way, color me unsurprised that you're not posting a video.

a whittling is scraping something

Again, either you think I don't know what whittling is, or you don't know what whittling is.

You can't whittle with wood because you can't cut slices off with wood, and your whole bullshit "grinding sawdust off something is whittling" thing is either you being stupid or you trying to move the goalposts after getting thoroughly called out on the bullshit...I'm guessing the latter, considering the page and a half of excuses of why you couldn't prove it.

[CorpseGrinderClock]

Geez dude what was even the point of all that posing and lying, you just dug a crazy deep hole and wouldn't quit.

Learn from it.